Could you post a copy of the memo you received confirming that they are definitely building a TV set.
Steve Jobs has commented in this biography that Apple has finally cracked it, with regards this very subject. Apple likes total control. Apple likes total simplicity. And other incidentals, including Steve Cooks recent comments.
I don't have a memo, but I do have intelligence, instinct and imagination, which I use. You'll rebut that I have zero proof, but then Apple will make a TV and you'll say I got lucky. In a sense this the iPhone and iPad all over again. Most people here called me a loon on both occasions, but when the product was announced I received a few "sorry, I was wrong dude" PMs. Unlike Gruber though, I don't care to be always right, I just feel I am right about this TV thing. Time will tell if am. And I'm not saying they might make a TV, allowing me to be right whether they do or don't, I'm saying they will.
It doesn't. It's all speculation. One of the reasons why the TV market sucks is because a lot of people are waiting for Apple to release an actually line of Smart TVs. And maybe just the pent up demand being built is enough to through off the TV market. Right now, Plasma is being phased out, and Sharp's new iGZO technology is going to be released next month at CES and that's supposed to be the replacement for what is currently on the market since it can go to higher resolution, requires less power, etc.
Seeing as how Panasonic just showcased a 8K (no not 4K) plasma I highly doubt that they're being phased out. The picture quality and refresh rate are still tops.
Seeing as how Panasonic just showcased a 8K (no not 4K) plasma I highly doubt that they're being phased out. The picture quality and refresh rate are still tops.
I hope you're right. I own and love plasmas. I have a Kuro. Sadly, though, my gut tells me Apple's iTV will be an LCD.
Nor would anyone; don't worry. I think you really ought to build one of your own and jam an Apple TV inside it. That'd fix everything and both parties would be happy.
In the "going back 20 to 30 years" comment, I think it's hilarious that people take this as "proof" they're making a TV. Can't draw that conclusion.
When time traveling, how do you know you've time traveled? Go to New York City and then go back in time 20 years. If you're in most places, you can't even tell. The buildings are the same. The buildings can't tell you that you've gone back in time, but the clothes worn by the people coming in and out of the buildings can. The words they say and the actions they take can.
Let's look through a window into the past. Now let's look through the same window at the present and the future. You can do that. Windows are made of glass in both places. Gorilla Glass jokes aside, the window stays the same; what you see, how you see it, and what it all means are what change.
Steve Jobs has commented in this biography that Apple has finally cracked it, with regards this very subject. Apple likes total control. Apple likes total simplicity. And other incidentals, including Steve Cooks recent comments.
I don't have a memo, but I do have intelligence, instinct and imagination, which I use. You'll rebut that I have zero proof, but then Apple will make a TV and you'll say I got lucky. In a sense this the iPhone and iPad all over again. Most people here called me a loon on both occasions, but when the product was announced I received a few "sorry, I was wrong dude" PMs. Unlike Gruber though, I don't care to be always right, I just feel I am right about this TV thing. Time will tell if am. And I'm not saying they might make a TV, allowing me to be right whether they do or don't, I'm saying they will.
This is so very different from the iPhone/iPad. With the iPhone Apple was able to create a relatively new form factor and then content was made to suit it. In the case of a TV the content already exists. They cannot hardware wise make anything much different than what's already being made. Are they going to use a piece of milled aluminum? That makes sense for a portable device but not for a TV.
...One of the reasons why the TV market sucks is because a lot of people are waiting for Apple to release an actually line of Smart TVs. And maybe just the pent up demand being built is enough to through off the TV market. Right now, Plasma is being phased out, and Sharp's new iGZO technology is going to be released next month at CES and that's supposed to be the replacement for what is currently on the market since it can go to higher resolution, requires less power, etc.
I hardly think even Apple has a big enough corner in the TV Market right now to stir-up such hysteria.
IMO, the reason why the TV market sucks right now has many factors, and it's probably the combination of all those factors that contribute to it's suckage.
Apple's interest in the TV market and the speculation around is probably accounts for about 1-4% of it...at the very best.
Other factors:
The TV industry is updating and changing formats so quickly that people are just not buying into them.
Consumers that already have a $1500+ 1080p TV they bought 5 years ago and are happy with them and see no reason to upgrade.
There is such a flood of STBs now plus the same or similar tech built into TVs that no one is buying into because nobody wants to subscribe to all these different things and have a cable bill and purchase physical media, so they pick all, one or nothing.
Between Amazon Instant, Netflix, Hulu+, iTunes, etc. there's no single good source to replace Cable or Live TV. And even then it's not a 1:1 replacement, you still need some kind of live content.
The Media industry is nickel-and-dime'ing us with 3D, Digital versions, Special Editions, PPV, Online Only, Subscription only, etc. galore and people are getting pretty pissed.
The cable companies are screwing us with content only available on some services but not others.
It all boils down to the shear fact that there is no one factor that's killing the Home Entertainment industry. 50% of it is the Media Industry's fault, the other 50% is the Hardware Industry. And the biggest problem this industry has to face is...What's Next? Because what we have now is a cluster-****. They keep trying new things but nothing seems to work. And IMO, when you give people too many mediocre choices and zero great choices, you're left with a really bad situation.
Au contraire, I vote for B&O. My parents always bought that, now I buy that. Did get a Samsung last time, which resulted in me not watching that much TV anymore, the experience is a total frustrating... never mind
Tim, Tim, Tim...I think it's time for an upgrade my friend. So wheel out your old set...
God I love that design. Two legs visible, two buttons, presumably Channel and Volume, two antenna sprieten, hmm, Twin Peaks Revisited.
Don't forget that Apple will release it, whatever it is. It will sell like crazy. A year later everyone else has copied it and all the innovation Apple has done on it will be deemed as "obvious" and "stealing".
[/quote]
I'm not so certain on that; remember Apple is also all about partnership. Sure, if they make a TV Set we'll see the copy cats, being obvious and such, but as Steve said during AllThingsDx (don't remember which year) "...it's all in the software".
Besides, it wouldn't be the first time for Apple to build a TV:
Indeed. But the Apple TV as is most likely a VERY low profit maker for them. A TV would likely end up making them more money than 2 or 3 Apple TVs, I'd bet. And if they can offer a basic TV subscription, as an option, the consumer may have a second choice at checkout, to get the TV for an entry price they may be far more willing to entertain. So, you'd pay $1,299 (perhaps more) to get the TV with no contract, and total freedom, or you'd pay $499 and you'd get the TV with a subscription contract - the option the vast majority of iTV consumers would choose.
That's a viable go to market strategy, well, the bones of one, provided they can convince the content makers to play ball, which is a tall order.
First, I have to strongly disagree with you on the profit margin of the Apple TV (STB). It's basically the iPod Nano with no storage (besides for systems files), no battery and no screen. Considering the fact that these are the three most expensive components in an iOS device, I'd say $99 will garner a very nice profit.
Your theory that for every one TV apple sells will gain more profit than 2-3 ATV STBs I think misses the point. You also will loose that many customers because of the high mark-up Apple will need to make their 20%-50% profit margin they usually make. And you will have that many few subscribers...which means lower adoption rate, meaning product failure.
I think a subsidized Apple Television might be an interesting path to investigate, but I really doubt the Media Company want to partner with Apple on anything. But it's more a win for Media and Apple than it is for the Consumer. We are still living that nightmare 5 years after the iPhone with exclusive AT&T was introduced. The only way Apple could accomplish this successfully would be with a company like AT&T or a Cable company. But, there is too much diversity in Local Cable providers, and none of them (nor AT&T) has full coverage in every part of every city either. And I don't think Apple would want to leave customers in the dust because the exclusive provider doesn't service their area. As an example. My area (which is one of the older and well establish adjacent suburbs of St. Louis) has local cable available, but not UVerse. People that live in Apartments, or Condos...some building managers/owners will not allow both cable and Dish, it's one or the other is most cases.
Wasn't there some rumor back in January about Ive having a 50" TV in his design studio?
I don't see Cooks comments as indicating Apple is doing a TV set. But one reason I think they could go down that route is even though its low margin it would probably still make them more money than the current ATV does. Plus if they really are doing something to reinvent the TV space, do they want you accessing it via a TV with a Samsung or LG logo on it?
I think that the approach Nintendo has had with the WiiU is really clever. Content can easily be accessed from any source available, be it live, download or streaming.
Add a way for content providers to seamlessly deliver additional content, and a way for people to interact while watching the same content (some kind of social network), and you're done!
I don't think people really want their TV interactive, they want it to be something they can veg out in front of at the end of a long day's work.
They don't want it to be individualised either, part of the point is having shared experiences (the programs) you can talk about with other people. One thing that might be good is if there was a news ticker along the bottom where you and your friends on the Internet can type comments as you all watch the same program.
hell yeah, i want it to be individualized. i don't want to have to pay $100 for 1500 channels with only 5 of those channels playing things i'm interested in. i'd like to be able to subscribe only to the shows i like. that's it.
newsticker? are you kidding me? that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. talk about a distraction. sounds more like a google feature.
Yeah I have, how about you? The image in the article looks like a 27" iMac with a shorter chin and black bezel. Wow, such a big difference! The Samsung TV at least looks like a 55" TV.
If they had an additional screen like the WiiU provides, additional data could be feed to the second screen without distracting from the main experience.
Seeing as how Panasonic just showcased a 8K (no not 4K) plasma I highly doubt that they're being phased out. The picture quality and refresh rate are still tops.
I agree, however Panasonic is the company to invented Plasma technology so if in a couple years they're the only one's using it...might be a sign it's dead.
I do agree, plasma is way better for viewing content. All other tech's are too bright and saturated, Plasma is way more natural looking and much closer to CRT, which many TV Techies agree is still the best quality picture out there.
I bought my Plasma about 6 months before 1080p became industry standard or "Full-HD" around 2005. However, I'm totally satisfied with the picture quality, it's fantastic! NO screen burn ever, no dimming over time...still looks as good as the day they delivered it.
Now, that's not saying if a full fledged Apple Television did debut in late January as the "One more thing", that I wouldn't buy one. I'd probably wait until gen 2 or 3, but I would definitely get one as soon as my current set died.
There is really nothing Cook said that screams TV **set**. My take all along is that this is a set-top box, and it's all predicated on deals with the cable guys and the content guys. That's where the subsidy lies, that's where the margin lies, and there is existing iOS goodness in that realm via Apple TV, something that I blogged about here:
Apple's iTV and the implications of what Steve said
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Could you post a copy of the memo you received confirming that they are definitely building a TV set.
Steve Jobs has commented in this biography that Apple has finally cracked it, with regards this very subject. Apple likes total control. Apple likes total simplicity. And other incidentals, including Steve Cooks recent comments.
I don't have a memo, but I do have intelligence, instinct and imagination, which I use. You'll rebut that I have zero proof, but then Apple will make a TV and you'll say I got lucky. In a sense this the iPhone and iPad all over again. Most people here called me a loon on both occasions, but when the product was announced I received a few "sorry, I was wrong dude" PMs. Unlike Gruber though, I don't care to be always right, I just feel I am right about this TV thing. Time will tell if am. And I'm not saying they might make a TV, allowing me to be right whether they do or don't, I'm saying they will.
Seeing as how Panasonic just showcased a 8K (no not 4K) plasma I highly doubt that they're being phased out. The picture quality and refresh rate are still tops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Seeing as how Panasonic just showcased a 8K (no not 4K) plasma I highly doubt that they're being phased out. The picture quality and refresh rate are still tops.
I hope you're right. I own and love plasmas. I have a Kuro. Sadly, though, my gut tells me Apple's iTV will be an LCD.
Originally Posted by Ireland
I didn't mean you, obviously.
Nor would anyone; don't worry. I think you really ought to build one of your own and jam an Apple TV inside it. That'd fix everything and both parties would be happy.
In the "going back 20 to 30 years" comment, I think it's hilarious that people take this as "proof" they're making a TV. Can't draw that conclusion.
When time traveling, how do you know you've time traveled? Go to New York City and then go back in time 20 years. If you're in most places, you can't even tell. The buildings are the same. The buildings can't tell you that you've gone back in time, but the clothes worn by the people coming in and out of the buildings can. The words they say and the actions they take can.
Let's look through a window into the past. Now let's look through the same window at the present and the future. You can do that. Windows are made of glass in both places. Gorilla Glass jokes aside, the window stays the same; what you see, how you see it, and what it all means are what change.
That is the ugliest thing I've ever seen. Looks like a 4 year old designed it. No thanks, I'll keep the black and white version.
This is so very different from the iPhone/iPad. With the iPhone Apple was able to create a relatively new form factor and then content was made to suit it. In the case of a TV the content already exists. They cannot hardware wise make anything much different than what's already being made. Are they going to use a piece of milled aluminum? That makes sense for a portable device but not for a TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius
Tim, Tim, Tim...I think it's time for an upgrade my friend. So wheel out your old set...
and wheel in the new...
Uh uh. I think I'll go throw up.
Thanks for proving Cook right.
Originally Posted by gwmac
Stop showing an iMac every time there is an article on a new Apple TV. Don't you have anyone with imagination and photoshop skills?
So you've never seen an iMac in your entire life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
...One of the reasons why the TV market sucks is because a lot of people are waiting for Apple to release an actually line of Smart TVs. And maybe just the pent up demand being built is enough to through off the TV market. Right now, Plasma is being phased out, and Sharp's new iGZO technology is going to be released next month at CES and that's supposed to be the replacement for what is currently on the market since it can go to higher resolution, requires less power, etc.
I hardly think even Apple has a big enough corner in the TV Market right now to stir-up such hysteria.
IMO, the reason why the TV market sucks right now has many factors, and it's probably the combination of all those factors that contribute to it's suckage.
Apple's interest in the TV market and the speculation around is probably accounts for about 1-4% of it...at the very best.
Other factors:
The TV industry is updating and changing formats so quickly that people are just not buying into them.
Consumers that already have a $1500+ 1080p TV they bought 5 years ago and are happy with them and see no reason to upgrade.
There is such a flood of STBs now plus the same or similar tech built into TVs that no one is buying into because nobody wants to subscribe to all these different things and have a cable bill and purchase physical media, so they pick all, one or nothing.
Between Amazon Instant, Netflix, Hulu+, iTunes, etc. there's no single good source to replace Cable or Live TV. And even then it's not a 1:1 replacement, you still need some kind of live content.
The Media industry is nickel-and-dime'ing us with 3D, Digital versions, Special Editions, PPV, Online Only, Subscription only, etc. galore and people are getting pretty pissed.
The cable companies are screwing us with content only available on some services but not others.
It all boils down to the shear fact that there is no one factor that's killing the Home Entertainment industry. 50% of it is the Media Industry's fault, the other 50% is the Hardware Industry. And the biggest problem this industry has to face is...What's Next? Because what we have now is a cluster-****. They keep trying new things but nothing seems to work. And IMO, when you give people too many mediocre choices and zero great choices, you're left with a really bad situation.
Au contraire, I vote for B&O. My parents always bought that, now I buy that. Did get a Samsung last time, which resulted in me not watching that much TV anymore, the experience is a total frustrating... never mind
God I love that design. Two legs visible, two buttons, presumably Channel and Volume, two antenna sprieten, hmm, Twin Peaks Revisited.
Don't forget that Apple will release it, whatever it is. It will sell like crazy. A year later everyone else has copied it and all the innovation Apple has done on it will be deemed as "obvious" and "stealing".
[/quote]
I'm not so certain on that; remember Apple is also all about partnership. Sure, if they make a TV Set we'll see the copy cats, being obvious and such, but as Steve said during AllThingsDx (don't remember which year) "...it's all in the software".
Besides, it wouldn't be the first time for Apple to build a TV:
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
Uh, that set looks like it came from the 1950's or early 1960's...that's more than 20 or 30 years ago...exaggerate much?
this is a TV set from 1982...30 years ago.
Oh god, thanks for the memory. My dad had this exact TV set. I was the remote control lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Indeed. But the Apple TV as is most likely a VERY low profit maker for them. A TV would likely end up making them more money than 2 or 3 Apple TVs, I'd bet. And if they can offer a basic TV subscription, as an option, the consumer may have a second choice at checkout, to get the TV for an entry price they may be far more willing to entertain. So, you'd pay $1,299 (perhaps more) to get the TV with no contract, and total freedom, or you'd pay $499 and you'd get the TV with a subscription contract - the option the vast majority of iTV consumers would choose.
That's a viable go to market strategy, well, the bones of one, provided they can convince the content makers to play ball, which is a tall order.
First, I have to strongly disagree with you on the profit margin of the Apple TV (STB). It's basically the iPod Nano with no storage (besides for systems files), no battery and no screen. Considering the fact that these are the three most expensive components in an iOS device, I'd say $99 will garner a very nice profit.
Your theory that for every one TV apple sells will gain more profit than 2-3 ATV STBs I think misses the point. You also will loose that many customers because of the high mark-up Apple will need to make their 20%-50% profit margin they usually make. And you will have that many few subscribers...which means lower adoption rate, meaning product failure.
I think a subsidized Apple Television might be an interesting path to investigate, but I really doubt the Media Company want to partner with Apple on anything. But it's more a win for Media and Apple than it is for the Consumer. We are still living that nightmare 5 years after the iPhone with exclusive AT&T was introduced. The only way Apple could accomplish this successfully would be with a company like AT&T or a Cable company. But, there is too much diversity in Local Cable providers, and none of them (nor AT&T) has full coverage in every part of every city either. And I don't think Apple would want to leave customers in the dust because the exclusive provider doesn't service their area. As an example. My area (which is one of the older and well establish adjacent suburbs of St. Louis) has local cable available, but not UVerse. People that live in Apartments, or Condos...some building managers/owners will not allow both cable and Dish, it's one or the other is most cases.
I don't see Cooks comments as indicating Apple is doing a TV set. But one reason I think they could go down that route is even though its low margin it would probably still make them more money than the current ATV does. Plus if they really are doing something to reinvent the TV space, do they want you accessing it via a TV with a Samsung or LG logo on it?
Add a way for content providers to seamlessly deliver additional content, and a way for people to interact while watching the same content (some kind of social network), and you're done!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii
I don't think people really want their TV interactive, they want it to be something they can veg out in front of at the end of a long day's work.
They don't want it to be individualised either, part of the point is having shared experiences (the programs) you can talk about with other people. One thing that might be good is if there was a news ticker along the bottom where you and your friends on the Internet can type comments as you all watch the same program.
hell yeah, i want it to be individualized. i don't want to have to pay $100 for 1500 channels with only 5 of those channels playing things i'm interested in. i'd like to be able to subscribe only to the shows i like. that's it.
newsticker? are you kidding me? that's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. talk about a distraction. sounds more like a google feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So you've never seen an iMac in your entire life?
Yeah I have, how about you? The image in the article looks like a 27" iMac with a shorter chin and black bezel. Wow, such a big difference! The Samsung TV at least looks like a 55" TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Seeing as how Panasonic just showcased a 8K (no not 4K) plasma I highly doubt that they're being phased out. The picture quality and refresh rate are still tops.
I agree, however Panasonic is the company to invented Plasma technology so if in a couple years they're the only one's using it...might be a sign it's dead.
I do agree, plasma is way better for viewing content. All other tech's are too bright and saturated, Plasma is way more natural looking and much closer to CRT, which many TV Techies agree is still the best quality picture out there.
I bought my Plasma about 6 months before 1080p became industry standard or "Full-HD" around 2005. However, I'm totally satisfied with the picture quality, it's fantastic! NO screen burn ever, no dimming over time...still looks as good as the day they delivered it.
Now, that's not saying if a full fledged Apple Television did debut in late January as the "One more thing", that I wouldn't buy one. I'd probably wait until gen 2 or 3, but I would definitely get one as soon as my current set died.
There is really nothing Cook said that screams TV **set**. My take all along is that this is a set-top box, and it's all predicated on deals with the cable guys and the content guys. That's where the subsidy lies, that's where the margin lies, and there is existing iOS goodness in that realm via Apple TV, something that I blogged about here:
Apple's iTV and the implications of what Steve said
http://radar.oreilly.com/2012/02/apple-itv-television.html
Check it out, if interested.