Google Maps shows the area where (Apple Maps dropped its pin) as a wilderness area with no access roads... seems as if quite a few people need to be pretty stubbid [sic] to blindly follow any map navigation.
Noteworty:
The TomTom site doesn't highlight Australia as on of the areas they serve.
The osm.org site shows a map comparable to Google Maps.
Kinda' makes you wonder if we couldn't get computers to:
1) weigh information from several sources
2) determine the probability of accuracy by the preponderance of data, i.e. vote on the results.
AIR that was the [successful] technique used to land men on the moon (and back)
There is a lot of blaming the users here. Its fine to say that the travelers should have used a standard map but
1) In the modern age people tend to use online, or recently downloaded maps, and expect them - particularly the online ones - to be uptodate.
2) This isn't a guy directed to the wrong house on a long street, its a town which is 40 miles out. 40 miles.
Apples problem is it is too America focussed, I am sure the maps were absolutely fine in the Bay area for months before release.
Maps are hard, it's not just software, which is fine as far as I can see, it's the data stupid.
I understand needing to cut the cord with Google as much as possible, but there are things Apple is good at, and things they're not. Maybe they should have left mapping to someone else. It's not like they don't have enough other stuff to focus on, especially when it comes to cloud infrastructure.
ALL maps have errors, people rely way too much on technology. Whenever I travel I always pick up a local map at a gas station. Information should always be gathered frommmore than one source.
I grew up using paper based maps and still use them. I have never personally encountered an error on a map as severe as the one reported here.
Apple, IMHO, was too quick to release MAPS. Like so many have said, they should released it when it was on par with Google maps, which is fantastic. Tim better get right or get gone. Steve Jobs wouldn't have, IMHO, allowed this to happen.
If Apple can't localise their products, with all their billions and billions of dollars, and can't make decent maps (or just freaking buy maps that already work) - then don't sell your products to our countries!
Apple plays nicely with America, you have nothing to complain about. Try using your maps and going to the wrong place, try checking the weather only to find out it's wrong... Apple's Australian localisation is shit... End of story.
Clearly the current maps has a problem finding places when not given a street address, but it's also pretty clear that there are NO buildings anywhere near where that pin is placed. It's curious to me that people wouldn't check the satellite view before accepting the recommendation from the current version of Apple's maps - I certainly wouldn't, and I'm in the US. If you get the correct destination, it seems to work well, but I've had routes given that were halfway across the country from where I wanted to go and others that were just wrong. (A friend of mine was recently 5 miles from Los Alamos, asked for directions, and was given a route to the Alamo in Texas.)
So no, people here do have something to complain about too, but wouldn't the lack of streets and buildings be a tip-off that the pin isn't on the city you were hoping for? Every mapping system has a disclaimer about possible errors & road signs taking precedence... Why do people not at this point take Apple's disclaimer more seriously?
Or is it the data? I mean, surely TomTom can't be making these mistakes?
My Garmin while programmed to drive to Sarasota, Florida from upstate N York on several occasions told me to turn off an interstate in the middle of nowhere. I will never forget one incident in particular. It was nearly sun set as we drove south on I88 in the wilds of upstate New York with nothing but very bleak moorlands as far as the eye could see. "Take the next turning on your left" she says! I had to unplug the device as the incessant "Make a U turn" was driving me nuts. I commented to my wife at the time that I could imagine a situation like that had potentially dangerous consequences should anyone actually believe such an instruction. I also kept thinking of the novel Bonfire of the Vanities and how a wrong turn was used there.
As others have said, you have to use these tools with a modicum of common sense. I even read now and then of people turning into oncoming traffic and having trible accidents just because a Garmin or what ever device they had tells them to. Would these drivers follow such insane instructions from a passenger? I think not!
As another Australia, I'd say use reliable mapping data... It seems that the American version of Maps is very good (and also the Chinese version, which has been localised) - perhaps a collaboration with whereis.com (our local mapping service) would be smart? - We have so many towns without 'name markers'.
I grew up using paper based maps and still use them. I have never personally encountered an error on a map as severe as the one reported here.
Then again, it would depend on how good and accurate a paper map was. Not to mention you, the user, tell yourself what to do, not a voice coming out of the paper so it depends how smart or map savvy 'you' are. I know of many, many cases of people getting lost while in the possession of a paper map, just ask mountain rescue folks. Or the folks that don't understand that driving south means rotating the map 180 degrees , even if only in your head, why they turned left instead of right!
The same way Google did it.....just saying....they had a perfectly good working product and replaced with an inferior one......
The same way Google did it? You mean release the product and improve it over time? The advantage they had was that no one was scrutinising every mistake while they were doing it.
You can still find errors in the Google, even though its been running a lot longer than the Apple service.
And 'inferior' really depends on what you're using it for and where you're going. The fact that Google didn't offer turn-by-turn directions makes it inferior in quite for quite a few people.
Doesn't anyone know what the notation "sic" means? It's not disparaging the spelling of "travelling" in Australian English, it's so that people do not think it's a mistake on the quoter's part to avoid ambuigity. It's not as common as "colour" which usually does not need a notation.
The same way Google did it? You mean release the product and improve it over time? The advantage they had was that no one was scrutinising every mistake while they were doing it.
You can still find errors in the Google, even though its been running a lot longer than the Apple service.
Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.
My Garmin while programmed to drive to Sarasota, Florida from upstate N York on several occasions told me to turn off an interstate in the middle of nowhere. I will never forget one incident in particular. It was nearly sun set as we drove south on I88 in the wilds of upstate New York with nothing but very bleak moorlands as far as the eye could see. "Take the next turning on your left" she says! I had to unplug the device as the incessant "Make a U turn" was driving me nuts. I commented to my wife at the time that I could imagine a situation like that had potentially dangerous consequences should anyone actually believe such an instruction. I also kept thinking of the novel Bonfire of the Vanities and how a wrong turn was used there.
As others have said, you have to use these tools with a modicum of common sense. I even read now and then of people turning into oncoming traffic and having trible accidents just because a Garmin or what ever device they had tells them to. Would these drivers follow such insane instructions from a passenger? I think not!
Another Australian here. Australian newspapers are notoriously anti-Apple. I am not surprised one bit that the Sydney Morning Herald ran this article, just as they do anything that remotely criticises Apple.
There have been many cases of people blindly following GPS directions (or even older paper maps) and clearly there needs to be some common sense applied. Apple's Maps need work - everyone knows that. Apple had to switch for a number of reasons, and there will be some pain in the meantime. Yet this is no different to any other mapping system where the roads change and the data is not updated. I am not going to pay hundreds of dollars to update the GPS DVD in my car, so I need to use common sense.
These are free mapping solutions and I find it astounding that people put all of their faith in a free map supplied by their phone manufacturer / phone OS maker.
As for fixing Apple maps, my street was labelled incorrectly (it is a weird parallel road that has the same name as the highway next to it) and I submitted a fix. It was fixed within weeks. This was a very minor issue for an unusual street layout, but it was fixed. If people stop complaining and start "Reporting a Problem", Maps will be fixed very quickly.
Quote: Originally Posted by GTR As an Australian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say:
Hey, Dumbasses!
Research trips more thoroughly using more than a single source of information that isn't the first version of a type of technology!
As an Australian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say: Hey, Dumbasses!, make sure you thoroughly test your shit before releasing it. You never know, someone might be stupid enough to use it. ____________________________________ I'm sorry, but I'm with "GTR" on this one. if your a moron enough to rely on a cell phone map with spotty cell phone coverage in the area your going you deserv what you get. Learn how to use a map for Crist's sake..
As for your responce. As stated by "Big Brother 84", Google had as many or more (and still does to this day) errors, but because people were aparently less stupid and didn't rely on it when google maps was young it was less advertized that there were errors...
Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.
So, Apple is testing it the same way Google did. What's your point?
Oh, and this wasn't the only reason Forestall was fired.
Comments
It may, or may not be a setup...
Google Maps shows the area where (Apple Maps dropped its pin) as a wilderness area with no access roads... seems as if quite a few people need to be pretty stubbid [sic] to blindly follow any map navigation.
Noteworty:
The TomTom site doesn't highlight Australia as on of the areas they serve.
The osm.org site shows a map comparable to Google Maps.
Kinda' makes you wonder if we couldn't get computers to:
1) weigh information from several sources
2) determine the probability of accuracy by the preponderance of data, i.e. vote on the results.
AIR that was the [successful] technique used to land men on the moon (and back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
ALL maps have errors, people rely way too much on technology. Whenever I travel I always pick up a local map at a gas station. Information should always be gathered frommmore than one source.
I grew up using paper based maps and still use them. I have never personally encountered an error on a map as severe as the one reported here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdnanotroh
If Apple can't localise their products, with all their billions and billions of dollars, and can't make decent maps (or just freaking buy maps that already work) - then don't sell your products to our countries!
Apple plays nicely with America, you have nothing to complain about. Try using your maps and going to the wrong place, try checking the weather only to find out it's wrong... Apple's Australian localisation is shit... End of story.
Clearly the current maps has a problem finding places when not given a street address, but it's also pretty clear that there are NO buildings anywhere near where that pin is placed. It's curious to me that people wouldn't check the satellite view before accepting the recommendation from the current version of Apple's maps - I certainly wouldn't, and I'm in the US. If you get the correct destination, it seems to work well, but I've had routes given that were halfway across the country from where I wanted to go and others that were just wrong. (A friend of mine was recently 5 miles from Los Alamos, asked for directions, and was given a route to the Alamo in Texas.)
So no, people here do have something to complain about too, but wouldn't the lack of streets and buildings be a tip-off that the pin isn't on the city you were hoping for? Every mapping system has a disclaimer about possible errors & road signs taking precedence... Why do people not at this point take Apple's disclaimer more seriously?
My Garmin while programmed to drive to Sarasota, Florida from upstate N York on several occasions told me to turn off an interstate in the middle of nowhere. I will never forget one incident in particular. It was nearly sun set as we drove south on I88 in the wilds of upstate New York with nothing but very bleak moorlands as far as the eye could see. "Take the next turning on your left" she says! I had to unplug the device as the incessant "Make a U turn" was driving me nuts. I commented to my wife at the time that I could imagine a situation like that had potentially dangerous consequences should anyone actually believe such an instruction. I also kept thinking of the novel Bonfire of the Vanities and how a wrong turn was used there.
As others have said, you have to use these tools with a modicum of common sense. I even read now and then of people turning into oncoming traffic and having trible accidents just because a Garmin or what ever device they had tells them to. Would these drivers follow such insane instructions from a passenger? I think not!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
Right, so in your capacity as Apple's software tester, how would you go have gone about testing for every location that folk are likely to search for?
The same way Google did it.....just saying....they had a perfectly good working product and replaced with an inferior one......
It's been 72 days since Tim's apology letter for Apple Maps...
Unfortunately, we've seen only a few improvements since then.
I think it is time for Apple to publicly:
1) define what they are doing to fix the problems
2) outline what improvements are being made
3) announce when results can be expected
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdnanotroh
As another Australia, I'd say use reliable mapping data... It seems that the American version of Maps is very good (and also the Chinese version, which has been localised) - perhaps a collaboration with whereis.com (our local mapping service) would be smart? - We have so many towns without 'name markers'.
Apple maps are atrocious in Australia.
None of which has anything to do with testing.
Then again, it would depend on how good and accurate a paper map was. Not to mention you, the user, tell yourself what to do, not a voice coming out of the paper so it depends how smart or map savvy 'you' are. I know of many, many cases of people getting lost while in the possession of a paper map, just ask mountain rescue folks. Or the folks that don't understand that driving south means rotating the map 180 degrees , even if only in your head, why they turned left instead of right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
Right, so in your capacity as Apple's software tester, how would you go have gone about testing for every location that folk are likely to search for?
Right, so you are saying all the other map apps are perfectly accurate and wouldn't lead a dumb-ass astray?
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
The same way Google did it.....just saying....they had a perfectly good working product and replaced with an inferior one......
The same way Google did it? You mean release the product and improve it over time? The advantage they had was that no one was scrutinising every mistake while they were doing it.
You can still find errors in the Google, even though its been running a lot longer than the Apple service.
And 'inferior' really depends on what you're using it for and where you're going. The fact that Google didn't offer turn-by-turn directions makes it inferior in quite for quite a few people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Right, so you are saying all the other map apps are perfectly accurate and wouldn't lead a dumb-ass astray?
You've replied to the wrong message.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
The same way Google did it? You mean release the product and improve it over time? The advantage they had was that no one was scrutinising every mistake while they were doing it.
You can still find errors in the Google, even though its been running a lot longer than the Apple service.
Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
My Garmin while programmed to drive to Sarasota, Florida from upstate N York on several occasions told me to turn off an interstate in the middle of nowhere. I will never forget one incident in particular. It was nearly sun set as we drove south on I88 in the wilds of upstate New York with nothing but very bleak moorlands as far as the eye could see. "Take the next turning on your left" she says! I had to unplug the device as the incessant "Make a U turn" was driving me nuts. I commented to my wife at the time that I could imagine a situation like that had potentially dangerous consequences should anyone actually believe such an instruction. I also kept thinking of the novel Bonfire of the Vanities and how a wrong turn was used there.
As others have said, you have to use these tools with a modicum of common sense. I even read now and then of people turning into oncoming traffic and having trible accidents just because a Garmin or what ever device they had tells them to. Would these drivers follow such insane instructions from a passenger? I think not!
Exactly.
http://www.gpsbites.com/top-10-list-of-worst-gps-disasters-and-sat-nav-mistakes
Another Australian here. Australian newspapers are notoriously anti-Apple. I am not surprised one bit that the Sydney Morning Herald ran this article, just as they do anything that remotely criticises Apple.
There have been many cases of people blindly following GPS directions (or even older paper maps) and clearly there needs to be some common sense applied. Apple's Maps need work - everyone knows that. Apple had to switch for a number of reasons, and there will be some pain in the meantime. Yet this is no different to any other mapping system where the roads change and the data is not updated. I am not going to pay hundreds of dollars to update the GPS DVD in my car, so I need to use common sense.
These are free mapping solutions and I find it astounding that people put all of their faith in a free map supplied by their phone manufacturer / phone OS maker.
As for fixing Apple maps, my street was labelled incorrectly (it is a weird parallel road that has the same name as the highway next to it) and I submitted a fix. It was fixed within weeks. This was a very minor issue for an unusual street layout, but it was fixed. If people stop complaining and start "Reporting a Problem", Maps will be fixed very quickly.
____________________________________
cnocbui
2012/12/10 06:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR
As an Australian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say:
Hey, Dumbasses!
Research trips more thoroughly using more than a single source of information that isn't the first version of a type of technology!
As an Australian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say: Hey, Dumbasses!, make sure you thoroughly test your shit before releasing it. You never know, someone might be stupid enough to use it.
____________________________________
I'm sorry, but I'm with "GTR" on this one. if your a moron enough to rely on a cell phone map with spotty cell phone coverage in the area your going you deserv what you get. Learn how to use a map for Crist's sake..
As for your responce. As stated by "Big Brother 84", Google had as many or more (and still does to this day) errors, but because people were aparently less stupid and didn't rely on it when google maps was young it was less advertized that there were errors...
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.
So, Apple is testing it the same way Google did. What's your point?
Oh, and this wasn't the only reason Forestall was fired.