Never mind for the moment that these iSheep down under used Apple maps despite the highly publicized rebuking of Apple map's and the contrite apologizes of Tim Cook with recommendations to use other mapping solutions. Never mind for the moment that Apple put out a half-baked maps product in their fanatical zeal to get back at Google and never mind that Apple apparently fired those responsible for debacle. In keeping their map product on the devices despite it's half-baked status, Apple could well have implemented a server side cross-check with other mapping services and when such a remarkable discrepancy is found, not provide the directions or warn the user there is a high probability that the directions are not correct.
"Doesn't anyone know what the notation "sic" means? It's not disparaging the spelling of "travelling" in Australian English, it's so that people do not think it's a mistake on the quoter's part to avoid ambuigity. It's not as common as "colour" which usually does not need a notation."
Rubbish. The passage was clearly quoting an Australian website setting out comments by Australian police. You assume the only audience for AI is American, which is clearly incorrect. Pedantry at its worst.
Said this here at the time of Maps' release. The town & city street maps are from TomTom data.. so no probs.
But the road and rural town data are way out; I don't know WTF they've done there! It's not just Victoria, *most* towns in Australia are location-pinned over 30 kms from their true location. I sent in a few corrections (e.g. my home town) via Maps feedback but gave up when I realised they were ALL wrong! And it would have been so easy to get right before release, just cross reference with Garmin or Google, or look them up in the Britannica Atlas index (doh!)
APT - Anthropogenic Plate Tectonics. You heard it here first!
Doesn't anyone know what the notation "sic" means? It's not disparaging the spelling of "travelling" in Australian English, it's so that people do not think it's a mistake on the quoter's part to avoid ambuigity. It's not as common as "colour" which usually does not need a notation.
Rubbish. The passage was clearly quoting an Australian website setting out comments by Australian police. You assume the only audience for AI is American, which is clearly incorrect. Pedantry at its worst.
Google ironed out the problems by putting it out there.
Apple will iron out the problems (we hope) by putting it out there
If they left the Google service on the phone, then the Apple service wouldn't get the workout it is seeing today.
Simple enough?
sure ...so you are defending that? Is that a good user experience? Why replace a great working product like Google Maps in the first place? Especially knowing it would take years to get it right? They replaced a working product with a inferior one so they could use all of their users as beta testers? You think that is the right thing to do? The users...all of us....did not get a choice of which product to use? Why would Apple publicly acknowledge that it was not working correctly then fire the product manager? You think they planned it that way? Do you think they relish the criticisms from all over the world? Do they like all the bad publicity just so Maps can get as you say "the workout it is seeing today." Funny Tim Cook has acknowledged that it is not working correctly...but what does he know....he just runs Apple.....He isn't defending Maps....just you.....
I think you'd be completely wrong there, mate. If you actually use your friend Google, you will see a lot of local Australian press have complained about Apple Maps. This isn't an isolate incidence. The reason this one got national press, is because the guy could have died.
I don't claim that Google is perfect, far from it. But I've never personally had troubles finding a town, or a town marker using Google Maps. I have more than 5 times with Apple Maps. Anecdotes do count... Because that's what this article is about.
You're simply missing the entire point.
The fact that lots of Australian press has criticized Apple's Maps is not evidence of anything. There is a long history of the press criticizing Apple for things that turn out not to be real problems. That's one of the big issues. Every time someone complains about Apple, it suddenly turns into a massive disastergate problem and there are 50,000 media articles about how incompetent Apple is - and then the problem simply fades away when people realize that the entire thing was someone making a mountain out of a molehill.
I'm still waiting for you to provide a side-by-side comparison that shows Apple's Maps to be inferior to the alternatives.
Exactly. And not a single one involved Apple's Maps.
Blindly following ANY directions without using common sense is foolish. I don't care if the directions come from Google, Apple, Mapquest, Garmin, or your best friend, when you're following directions and something looks wonky, you stop and check it out instead of blithely continuing.
All this "google maps and other maps are just as bad"... is just so much teenager self-justification crap...
Why?
No one in their right mind expects perfection from a mapping program. So how do you judge whether the program is any good? You compare it to the alternatives.
If Apple's mapping program is as good as Google and the other alternatives, then all the whining is misplaced. Instead of singling Apple out, the comments should be arguing for ALL mapping programs to be improved. If it turns out that Apple Maps IS inferior, then the complaints would be justified - but, so far, most of the comparisons show Apple's maps to be just as good as the competition, if not better.
Expecting Apple's Maps to be perfect while accepting flaws in every other mapping system is pure hypocrisy.
I am not the kind of person that likes hiking or camping in the wilderness but even I imagine that relying on an electrical powered device for directions is not a good idea. Having a compass has worked for hundreds of years and a good map or two is standard gear when going off on an adventure. Besides were would you charge you phone in a forest or desert?
sure ...so you are defending that? Is that a good user experience? Why replace a great working product like Google Maps in the first place? Especially knowing it would take years to get it right? They replaced a working product with a inferior one so they could use all of their users as beta testers? You think that is the right thing to do? The users...all of us....did not get a choice of which product to use? Why would Apple publicly acknowledge that it was not working correctly then fire the product manager? You think they planned it that way? Do you think they relish the criticisms from all over the world? Do they like all the bad publicity just so Maps can get as you say "the workout it is seeing today." Funny Tim Cook has acknowledged that it is not working correctly...but what does he know....he just runs Apple.....He isn't defending Maps....just you.....
It wasn't great. No TBT. No vector graphics. Forced to allow customer data to feed back into the Google data mines like that scene in Temple of Doom where all the kids are working in that underground cavern.
It was a tough spot for Apple and another would have been better, but they didn't have another year. They made the best choice from a bad situation, but fear not because it's a temporary situation, just as Google Maps was worse than Map Quest at the start.
The only thing to fault Apple for is over promising and under delivering instead of acknowledging up front that there will be some growing pains but that Apple Maps will be the best maps in the world in a lot less time than it took Google to get its maps straightened out.
sure ...so you are defending that? Is that a good user experience? Why replace a great working product like Google Maps in the first place? Especially knowing it would take years to get it right? They replaced a working product with a inferior one so they could use all of their users as beta testers?
And, yet, you haven't provided any evidence that it's inferior. The few side-by-side comparisons that have been done show it to be at least comparable.
So where's all the evidence to back your claim that it's inferior?
You think that is the right thing to do? The users...all of us....did not get a choice of which product to use? Why would Apple publicly acknowledge that it was not working correctly then fire the product manager? You think they planned it that way? Do you think they relish the criticisms from all over the world? Do they like all the bad publicity just so Maps can get as you say "the workout it is seeing today." Funny Tim Cook has acknowledged that it is not working correctly...but what does he know....he just runs Apple.....He isn't defending Maps....just you.....
That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective. Specifically, he said:
At Apple, we strive to make world-class products that deliver the best experience possible to our customers. With the launch of our new Maps last week, we fell short on this commitment. We are extremely sorry for the frustration this has caused our customers and we are doing everything we can to make Maps better.
Failing to make the "best experience possible" does not mean the product is defective. In fact, it's a completely meaningless phrase. Even if you take the best mapping system on the market and improve it by 300%, it would STILL not be the "best experience possible". This reads very much like the kind of apology you give your wife when she's complaining about something stupid "I'm sorry that you're upset."
All this "google maps and other maps are just as bad"... is just so much teenager self-justification crap...
Why?
No one in their right mind expects perfection from a mapping program. So how do you judge whether the program is any good? You compare it to the alternatives.
If Apple's mapping program is as good as Google and the other alternatives, then all the whining is misplaced. Instead of singling Apple out, the comments should be arguing for ALL mapping programs to be improved. If it turns out that Apple Maps IS inferior, then the complaints would be justified - but, so far, most of the comparisons show Apple's maps to be just as good as the competition, if not better.
Expecting Apple's Maps to be perfect while accepting flaws in every other mapping system is pure hypocrisy.
I have been an Apple fan for over 34 years... longer than many here have been alive!
Apple's mapping is not as good as Google Maps for many things: accuracy of data; areas covered; satellite images; POI data; street view; computer/web access... to name a few.
No amount of "pick and choose" comparisons can change this!
I do believe that, in the long run, Apple Maps will be a superior solution!
But first, Apple needs to admit to themselves that action is needed -- then take that action.
I don't really care if other map solutions are as bad or worse in some situations!
I want to use Apple Maps, and develop dependable solutions (iOS and OSX) using Apple MAps.
[quote]I guess this is a problem with late entry into the market though. I daresay Google had lots of issues in the early days but back then people didn't rely on them so decisively.[/quote]
Apple being late to the game is their own fault, not anyone else's. It's wrong to shift the burden to the customers, stop being an apologetict.
[quote]Right, so in your capacity as Apple's software tester, how would you go have gone about testing for every location that folk are likely to search for?[/quote]
If you can't guarantee the quality of your services, don't offer them, and especially don't prevent your customers from accessing concurrent services that actually work.
[quote]Actually, I think the real issue her is: Has anyone gotten lost using Google Maps or other services? The answer is, yes they have. This is nonsense, and unprofessional.[/quote]
No, you got the question wrong. The question you should be asking is: have so many people gotten lost due to Google Maps' wrong directions that police departments had to issue specific warnings about its inaccuracies? I bet you know the answer for that...
[quote]I suspect they were put up to it by Google or another of Apple's competitors. It didn't happen for months after the release of Apple Maps and suddenly there are a string of the exact same error involving people who use Apple Maps to go to the same small remote city and are all too stupid to realize that there's a problem? Sounds like a set up.[/quote]
Yes, it's a conspiracy! The entire world is conspiring against Apple! I heard they're even moving roads, rivers, cities, and oceans now just to make Apple's Maps inaccurate!
[quote]This is nonsense. EVERY mapping system has flaws. There is absolutely no evidence that Apple's Maps is any worse than any of the other mapping systems. Sure, you can find errors in Apple's Maps that don't appear on Google Maps and vice versa, but in the few cases where people have done large scale comparisons, Apple comes out looking just as good as Google.[/quote]
Do you have links to that? I'm really curious to see where the comparisons were done.
[quote]So where's your evidence that they didn't test it thoroughly enough? Anecdotes don't count.[/quote]
Last time I checked, Apple's Maps still had trouble understanding that 'a', 'ã', 'â', 'á', 'à', and 'ä' are all the same letter, but if you missed an accent, it would not find what you were looking for. Pretty basic stuff that shows it really wasn't properly tested, and this isn't even about data! Don't get me started with the places where the rendered map, the dropped pins, and the search results disagree with each other, something that should have never happened because all this data should have been indexed together.
[quote]Easy... competing map companies always try giving false data to competitors. Apple cannot fix problems quickly, because they cannot trust people reporting errors, they have to confirm the new data is correct and the old is wrong, or the maps would be in worse shape than they already are.[/quote]
Their own fault for going crowdsourcing in the first place. Google collects their own data, but I'm yet to see an Apple car drive down my street to collect map data.
[quote]You expect them to trust information given by just anyone? Data must be verified before changing it.[/quote]
Nope, I expect them to hire people and employ resources to collect that data themselves, especially since Google does it. It's not like they don't have the money...
[quote]The Street View lie continues... Apple iOs never had street view![/quote]
Yes, it did. I'm still on iOS 5.1.1 jailbroken, I can publish a video with that if you wish.
[quote]So, Apple is testing it the same way Google did. What's your point?[/quote]
It's too late for that. That kind of quality was acceptable in 2006, not in 2012. Technology evolves; if you want to be competitive, you have to adopt today's standards, especially if you are replacing a competitor's service in your own platform without giving your customers the option to go back.
I have been an Apple fan for over 34 years... longer than many here have been alive!
Apple's mapping is not as good as Google Maps for many things: accuracy of data; areas covered; satellite images; POI data; street view; computer/web access... to name a few.
No amount of "pick and choose" comparisons can change this!
I do believe that, in the long run, Apple Maps will be a superior solution!
But first, Apple needs to admit to themselves that action is needed -- then take that action.
I don't really care if other map solutions are as bad or worse in some situations!
I want to use Apple Maps, and develop dependable solutions (iOS and OSX) using Apple MAps.
Apple Maps just isn't good enough!
Have you changed your position on Apple Maps, because I feel as if you had the opposite position back when I was concerned about Apple Maps being a potential issue waiting to explode back when the iOS 6 betas were out?
Comments
Never mind for the moment that these iSheep down under used Apple maps despite the highly publicized rebuking of Apple map's and the contrite apologizes of Tim Cook with recommendations to use other mapping solutions. Never mind for the moment that Apple put out a half-baked maps product in their fanatical zeal to get back at Google and never mind that Apple apparently fired those responsible for debacle. In keeping their map product on the devices despite it's half-baked status, Apple could well have implemented a server side cross-check with other mapping services and when such a remarkable discrepancy is found, not provide the directions or warn the user there is a high probability that the directions are not correct.
"Doesn't anyone know what the notation "sic" means? It's not disparaging the spelling of "travelling" in Australian English, it's so that people do not think it's a mistake on the quoter's part to avoid ambuigity. It's not as common as "colour" which usually does not need a notation."
Rubbish. The passage was clearly quoting an Australian website setting out comments by Australian police. You assume the only audience for AI is American, which is clearly incorrect. Pedantry at its worst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzos
Said this here at the time of Maps' release. The town & city street maps are from TomTom data.. so no probs.
But the road and rural town data are way out; I don't know WTF they've done there! It's not just Victoria, *most* towns in Australia are location-pinned over 30 kms from their true location. I sent in a few corrections (e.g. my home town) via Maps feedback but gave up when I realised they were ALL wrong! And it would have been so easy to get right before release, just cross reference with Garmin or Google, or look them up in the Britannica Atlas index (doh!)
APT - Anthropogenic Plate Tectonics. You heard it here first!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
So, Apple is testing it the same way Google did. What's your point?
Oh, and this wasn't the only reason Forestall was fired.
you really don't get it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elian Gonzalez
Doesn't anyone know what the notation "sic" means? It's not disparaging the spelling of "travelling" in Australian English, it's so that people do not think it's a mistake on the quoter's part to avoid ambuigity. It's not as common as "colour" which usually does not need a notation.
Rubbish. The passage was clearly quoting an Australian website setting out comments by Australian police. You assume the only audience for AI is American, which is clearly incorrect. Pedantry at its worst.
Been using Magellan GPS app for as long as it has been sold and before that a stand alone GPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
you really don't get it?
Do you?
Google ironed out the problems by putting it out there.
Apple will iron out the problems (we hope) by putting it out there
If they left the Google service on the phone, then the Apple service wouldn't get the workout it is seeing today.
Simple enough?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
Do you?
Google ironed out the problems by putting it out there.
Apple will iron out the problems (we hope) by putting it out there
If they left the Google service on the phone, then the Apple service wouldn't get the workout it is seeing today.
Simple enough?
sure ...so you are defending that? Is that a good user experience? Why replace a great working product like Google Maps in the first place? Especially knowing it would take years to get it right? They replaced a working product with a inferior one so they could use all of their users as beta testers? You think that is the right thing to do? The users...all of us....did not get a choice of which product to use? Why would Apple publicly acknowledge that it was not working correctly then fire the product manager? You think they planned it that way? Do you think they relish the criticisms from all over the world? Do they like all the bad publicity just so Maps can get as you say "the workout it is seeing today." Funny Tim Cook has acknowledged that it is not working correctly...but what does he know....he just runs Apple.....He isn't defending Maps....just you.....
All this "google maps and other maps are just as bad"... is just so much teenager self-justification crap...
We are talking Apple Maps here -- and for some things, they just don't work... regardless of whether other map solutions succeed or fail.
But, if you really want to double down on frustration -- try this:
"Siri: Where is Mildura Australia?"
You're simply missing the entire point.
The fact that lots of Australian press has criticized Apple's Maps is not evidence of anything. There is a long history of the press criticizing Apple for things that turn out not to be real problems. That's one of the big issues. Every time someone complains about Apple, it suddenly turns into a massive disastergate problem and there are 50,000 media articles about how incompetent Apple is - and then the problem simply fades away when people realize that the entire thing was someone making a mountain out of a molehill.
I'm still waiting for you to provide a side-by-side comparison that shows Apple's Maps to be inferior to the alternatives.
Exactly. And not a single one involved Apple's Maps.
Blindly following ANY directions without using common sense is foolish. I don't care if the directions come from Google, Apple, Mapquest, Garmin, or your best friend, when you're following directions and something looks wonky, you stop and check it out instead of blithely continuing.
Why?
No one in their right mind expects perfection from a mapping program. So how do you judge whether the program is any good? You compare it to the alternatives.
If Apple's mapping program is as good as Google and the other alternatives, then all the whining is misplaced. Instead of singling Apple out, the comments should be arguing for ALL mapping programs to be improved. If it turns out that Apple Maps IS inferior, then the complaints would be justified - but, so far, most of the comparisons show Apple's maps to be just as good as the competition, if not better.
Expecting Apple's Maps to be perfect while accepting flaws in every other mapping system is pure hypocrisy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
All this "google maps and other maps are just as bad"... is just so much teenager self-justification crap...
We are talking Apple Maps here -- and for some things, they just don't work... regardless of whether other map solutions succeed or fail.
But, if you really want to double down on frustration -- try this:
"Siri: Where is Mildura Australia?"
Off Topic.......I love your signature!
Does Maps in Australia say, "You will have to walkabout from here"
That wench took me into a neighborhood on the opposite side of a golf course entrance and told me I'd have to get out and walk.
It wasn't great. No TBT. No vector graphics. Forced to allow customer data to feed back into the Google data mines like that scene in Temple of Doom where all the kids are working in that underground cavern.
It was a tough spot for Apple and another would have been better, but they didn't have another year. They made the best choice from a bad situation, but fear not because it's a temporary situation, just as Google Maps was worse than Map Quest at the start.
The only thing to fault Apple for is over promising and under delivering instead of acknowledging up front that there will be some growing pains but that Apple Maps will be the best maps in the world in a lot less time than it took Google to get its maps straightened out.
And, yet, you haven't provided any evidence that it's inferior. The few side-by-side comparisons that have been done show it to be at least comparable.
So where's all the evidence to back your claim that it's inferior?
That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective. Specifically, he said:
Failing to make the "best experience possible" does not mean the product is defective. In fact, it's a completely meaningless phrase. Even if you take the best mapping system on the market and improve it by 300%, it would STILL not be the "best experience possible". This reads very much like the kind of apology you give your wife when she's complaining about something stupid "I'm sorry that you're upset."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
All this "google maps and other maps are just as bad"... is just so much teenager self-justification crap...
Why?
No one in their right mind expects perfection from a mapping program. So how do you judge whether the program is any good? You compare it to the alternatives.
If Apple's mapping program is as good as Google and the other alternatives, then all the whining is misplaced. Instead of singling Apple out, the comments should be arguing for ALL mapping programs to be improved. If it turns out that Apple Maps IS inferior, then the complaints would be justified - but, so far, most of the comparisons show Apple's maps to be just as good as the competition, if not better.
Expecting Apple's Maps to be perfect while accepting flaws in every other mapping system is pure hypocrisy.
I have been an Apple fan for over 34 years... longer than many here have been alive!
Apple's mapping is not as good as Google Maps for many things: accuracy of data; areas covered; satellite images; POI data; street view; computer/web access... to name a few.
No amount of "pick and choose" comparisons can change this!
I do believe that, in the long run, Apple Maps will be a superior solution!
But first, Apple needs to admit to themselves that action is needed -- then take that action.
I don't really care if other map solutions are as bad or worse in some situations!
I want to use Apple Maps, and develop dependable solutions (iOS and OSX) using Apple MAps.
Apple Maps just isn't good enough!
Apple being late to the game is their own fault, not anyone else's. It's wrong to shift the burden to the customers, stop being an apologetict.
[quote]Right, so in your capacity as Apple's software tester, how would you go have gone about testing for every location that folk are likely to search for?[/quote]
If you can't guarantee the quality of your services, don't offer them, and especially don't prevent your customers from accessing concurrent services that actually work.
[quote]Actually, I think the real issue her is: Has anyone gotten lost using Google Maps or other services? The answer is, yes they have. This is nonsense, and unprofessional.[/quote]
No, you got the question wrong. The question you should be asking is: have so many people gotten lost due to Google Maps' wrong directions that police departments had to issue specific warnings about its inaccuracies? I bet you know the answer for that...
[quote]I suspect they were put up to it by Google or another of Apple's competitors. It didn't happen for months after the release of Apple Maps and suddenly there are a string of the exact same error involving people who use Apple Maps to go to the same small remote city and are all too stupid to realize that there's a problem? Sounds like a set up.[/quote]
Yes, it's a conspiracy! The entire world is conspiring against Apple! I heard they're even moving roads, rivers, cities, and oceans now just to make Apple's Maps inaccurate!
[quote]This is nonsense. EVERY mapping system has flaws. There is absolutely no evidence that Apple's Maps is any worse than any of the other mapping systems. Sure, you can find errors in Apple's Maps that don't appear on Google Maps and vice versa, but in the few cases where people have done large scale comparisons, Apple comes out looking just as good as Google.[/quote]
Do you have links to that? I'm really curious to see where the comparisons were done.
[quote]So where's your evidence that they didn't test it thoroughly enough? Anecdotes don't count.[/quote]
Last time I checked, Apple's Maps still had trouble understanding that 'a', 'ã', 'â', 'á', 'à', and 'ä' are all the same letter, but if you missed an accent, it would not find what you were looking for. Pretty basic stuff that shows it really wasn't properly tested, and this isn't even about data! Don't get me started with the places where the rendered map, the dropped pins, and the search results disagree with each other, something that should have never happened because all this data should have been indexed together.
[quote]Easy... competing map companies always try giving false data to competitors. Apple cannot fix problems quickly, because they cannot trust people reporting errors, they have to confirm the new data is correct and the old is wrong, or the maps would be in worse shape than they already are.[/quote]
Their own fault for going crowdsourcing in the first place. Google collects their own data, but I'm yet to see an Apple car drive down my street to collect map data.
[quote]You expect them to trust information given by just anyone? Data must be verified before changing it.[/quote]
Nope, I expect them to hire people and employ resources to collect that data themselves, especially since Google does it. It's not like they don't have the money...
[quote]The Street View lie continues... Apple iOs never had street view![/quote]
Yes, it did. I'm still on iOS 5.1.1 jailbroken, I can publish a video with that if you wish.
[quote]So, Apple is testing it the same way Google did. What's your point?[/quote]
It's too late for that. That kind of quality was acceptable in 2006, not in 2012. Technology evolves; if you want to be competitive, you have to adopt today's standards, especially if you are replacing a competitor's service in your own platform without giving your customers the option to go back.
Google? Can be 100% wrong. No one cares. Doesn't matter.
Google can drive you off a cliff. Everyone is fine with that.
Useless hypocrites.
Have you changed your position on Apple Maps, because I feel as if you had the opposite position back when I was concerned about Apple Maps being a potential issue waiting to explode back when the iOS 6 betas were out?