If you search for Mildura Australia, Apple Maps does indeed give you a location in the middle of a national park. But, it's pretty obvious that the location given is in the middle of a national park with no mapped roads leading in and out. That should probably give someone pause before heading out.
Also, if you put in an actual address in Mildura, rather than just the town's name, it gives the correct location.
It didn't replace any existing services. Nobody would be complaining about Apple's Maps had they been optional, but since they were forced down everyone's throats with iOS 6, Apple's Maps are expected to be at least as good as Google's.
Forced? Talk about sham arguments, you are the Scarecrow King. What was forced by Apple? Customers were forced to buy an iPhone 5? No! Customers were forced to install OS 6? No! These actions all require effort to achieve. **** your falsely impassioned hyperbole and try to make a balanced and reasoned argument for once.
Wow, what did people do before electronic navigation systems existed? Even if a map app is absolutely horrible don't you the driver at some point realize its not taking you to the right place and turn around?
Indeed. Or how about planning for things like a tire blow out and you might have to walk for help so since its summer and the app says you are going into a park you have water in your car etc
And, yet, you haven't provided any evidence that it's inferior. The few side-by-side comparisons that have been done show it to be at least comparable.
So where's all the evidence to back your claim that it's inferior?
That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective. Specifically, he said:
Failing to make the "best experience possible" does not mean the product is defective. In fact, it's a completely meaningless phrase. Even if you take the best mapping system on the market and improve it by 300%, it would STILL not be the "best experience possible". This reads very much like the kind of apology you give your wife when she's complaining about something stupid "I'm sorry that you're upset."
Really....
"That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective."
Eddy has a lot on his plate with iTunes, iCloud, App Store, iBooks, and now Siri and Maps. They need to go on a hiring spree and really beef up their maps teams. If they really want to be a player in the navigation space that's where some of their $100B needs to go.
You assume that the issue is Apple. They get a huge chunk of their town and driving data from outside sources like TomTom. This could be a case of THAT source giving them corrupted data. How would they know this up front unless they sent folks out to every possible location in the world and if they were going to do that then why use TomTom at all.
So Apple ends up in the dumps no matter what. Either they deal with possible bad data when they are informed about it. Or they map it all themselves and we would have gotten another 5 years or so without Turn by Turn in the built in app because Google wasn't giving it up.
And what about the governments. The issues with iOS Maps have been very well advertised. Knowing how important it would be for folks to have accurate maps why didn't NSW, Vic etc offer their map data to Apple for verifying and updating the system, same as what China did.
I would hope someone contacted Apple directly, either through the app, via e-mail or by phone to let them know about this. I just checked the location of Mildura on my phone this morning and it is still incorrectly located. I would think Apple would spank this problem immediately. Bad PR.
Really....
"That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective."
So what was users expectation then?
The sentence before that one answered the question. He said that the customers expected "the best experience possible" and Apple Maps didn't provide it. That's a tautology. NO product provides "the best experience possible".
Again, it reads very much like an apology you'd give to your wife when you know she doesn't have any rational complaint: "I'm sorry you're upset".
But feel free to point out any wording in Tim's letter that supports your claim that the program is defective. While you're at it, how about some evidence that it's worse than the alternatives?
If you search for Mildura Australia, Apple Maps does indeed give you a location in the middle of a national park. But, it's pretty obvious that the location given is in the middle of a national park with no mapped roads leading in and out. That should probably give someone pause before heading out.
Also, if you put in an actual address in Mildura, rather than just the town's name, it gives the correct location.
Which makes it seem more likely to me that the entire thing is a set up foisted by one of Apple's competitors.
And what about the governments. The issues with iOS Maps have been very well advertised. Knowing how important it would be for folks to have accurate maps why didn't NSW, Vic etc offer their map data to Apple for verifying and updating the system, same as what China did.
I don't think Apple had a choice there. The Chinese government controls what maps are permitted. If China doesn't want regions, roads or directions shown for particular areas that's the way it is. That's why TT can't offer their own maps for China. AFAIK they had to partner with a government-approved map provider to even offer navigation devices for sale there. Apple had to do the same.
There was one done in the SF Bay area which showed Apple Maps to be superior. One in Canada was roughly a wash. And a couple in China showed Apple Maps to be better.
Besides, I'm not the one claiming that Apple Maps is inferior. I'm simply pointing out that no one has yet provided evidence to support that claim.
No, you're claiming that Apple Maps is on par with Google Maps ... and yet you can't provide any evidence (let alone evidence from an unbiased source) to back up that claim. Suspicious.
Of course that sucks. It's normal that they are angry at maps but this kind of mistake happens to all navigation systems anyway, and maps is still far from perfect now. Never follow blindly your gps is an obvious rule.
No, you're claiming that Apple Maps is on par with Google Maps ... and yet you can't provide any evidence (let alone evidence from an unbiased source) to back up that claim. Suspicious.
I'm amazed at how fast Google corrects their data. There was one poster here who showed a google maps screenshot of a place (in australia) that wasn't mapped. I looked at the data on bing that was up to date, suggested the modifications to google, and in a matter of minutes the streets were there! It's really amazing. If only Apple had this!
Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.
Yep - Google only correctly shows my address in the correct physical location as of a couple years ago - despite the house being here since the mid 1970s and appearing clearly in Google satellite photos. While the error was only a few hundred feet - it did result in at least one case where a delivery van left a package with my address on it on my neighbor's front step. It was after dark when the package was delivered. Their website showed delivery confirmation and just before I called them I noticed a package on my neighbor's step - about 300 feet away on the other side of a wooded lot - and since the resident there was typically in Florida for most of the winter I figured I would check it out and it fact it was my package.
I also once had a GPS unit tell me to make a right turn in the middle of a bridge about 500 feet above a river - where there was no exit ramp - and proceed to have its signal messed up by something like a quarter mile from where I actually was for the ret of the trip - that was a Belkin Bluetooth unit and computer based software.
My TomTom unit is not very happy in Toronto, Ontario - had me make a lengthy series of left turns until I decide to just use the map on screen to get my own bearings and ignore the instructions until I was clear of the larger buildings that I suspect where interfering with the satellite signals.
In neither case did I need to call to be rescued or even complain to the respective manufacturers - I accepted that the technologies I used have limitations.
A lot of people (who don't read appleinsider or are less tech-savvy) might have no idea that the foundation of the default map app on iPhones has changed - in iOS 4 and earlier it was just called "Maps", remember.
Sure the new non-google app looks totally different, but so do lots of upgraded apps (iTunes 11 vs 10 for example). With google maps, people became accustomed to 99.5% accuracy pretty much everywhere in the world. If they don't realize the data behind iOS 6 maps is completely different, it can lead to serious problems. Maybe 90% of north american and western european data is now accurate, but in many parts of the world it's absolutely terrible. I live part-time in Nepal, and Google maps is 99.5% accurate even in very remote areas, while iOS 6 maps are a step below having somebody who visited here once in the '60s drawing you a map with a crayon on a napkin during an earthquake.
Really, a year ago if you were driving to a fairly common tourist destination in a developed country, would you really feel the need to double check with an atlas or paper map if you had detailed directions from google maps? Probably not... I guess on the bright side, Apple is giving a boost to paper map publishers...
This is nonsense. EVERY mapping system has flaws. There is absolutely no evidence that Apple's Maps is any worse than any of the other mapping systems.
I disagree. There is lots of evidence that Apple's Maps is worse, in some areas, than the other mapping systems. Note the 'in some areas'.
What folks forget is that those services weren't perfect when they launched either. And in some ways still are not perfect. For its whole life, Google directions has told folks to go the wrong way down a street in my neighborhood that has been a one way for a good 20 years. Mapquest is missing a major rail line that has been around for a good couple of years. Almost every service has timetable errors left and right for our local public transit. And so on.
This article and the source ones are written to be hit foddering hyperboling more than anything else. Details are left out in masse so Apple looks worse than they likely are. Like how many times are we really talking about, was anyone really in danger (kids, elderly etc that can't go for a day without fluids like a healthy adult can) and so on. Apple bashing gets page hits. The local police did as they should and reminded folks that this is not an ages old system that has been proven to be perfect so be careful when using it. But then the media, even the locals, had to jump on it for the page hits. Because Apple is 'bank' when it comes to page hits, always keep that in mind when reading articles.
The sentence before that one answered the question. He said that the customers expected "the best experience possible" and Apple Maps didn't provide it. That's a tautology. NO product provides "the best experience possible".
Again, it reads very much like an apology you'd give to your wife when you know she doesn't have any rational complaint: "I'm sorry you're upset".
But feel free to point out any wording in Tim's letter that supports your claim that the program is defective. While you're at it, how about some evidence that it's worse than the alternatives?
Which makes it seem more likely to me that the entire thing is a set up foisted by one of Apple's competitors.
So what was the users expectations? Tim said Apple Maps did not meet those expectaitions...... If you want need anecdotal proof just look arond you.... in this thread...enough people have been posting it with great logical evidence. You read it but just don't see it.... Nothing i can point out or give you will change that. By your own posts Tim said Maps did not meet users expectations. So what did Apple users expect? We expect it to be on par with the rest of Apples offerings! We expect a great user experience and for it to just work. So if it failed expectations then it is defective........
It's not like he drove randomly into the outback. He drove along a highway to a town, and his maps told him to turn (there aren't a lot of signs on some of our roads) so he wouldn't have had any reason to assume he was going the wrong way.
Then perhaps before you gripe about mapping service you should gripe at your authorities to put up some damn signs. After all, driving into an area with crap cell service as this apparently was, you wouldn't have access to GPS to show you that you turned the wrong way etc and those signs would have pointed out your error. That gets folks lost just as much as bad electronic maps. And proper signs might have alerted these folks to a potential issue before it became one. I wonder what the rate of incidence was before all these SATNAV etc systems for that area. Sounds to me like it was just as bad to several times worse. And in those days folks might not have had a cell phone of any kind to try to get help, leading to more serious injury, illness or even death.
Comments
Also, if you put in an actual address in Mildura, rather than just the town's name, it gives the correct location.
Forced? Talk about sham arguments, you are the Scarecrow King. What was forced by Apple? Customers were forced to buy an iPhone 5? No! Customers were forced to install OS 6? No! These actions all require effort to achieve. **** your falsely impassioned hyperbole and try to make a balanced and reasoned argument for once.
Indeed. Or how about planning for things like a tire blow out and you might have to walk for help so since its summer and the app says you are going into a park you have water in your car etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight
I mus say,it was nice of Apple to gift all these iphone 5 to testers. Oh, wait...
If the iPhone 5 was required in order to run the new Apple Maps, then your snide comment would have made more sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
And, yet, you haven't provided any evidence that it's inferior. The few side-by-side comparisons that have been done show it to be at least comparable.
So where's all the evidence to back your claim that it's inferior?
That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective. Specifically, he said:
Failing to make the "best experience possible" does not mean the product is defective. In fact, it's a completely meaningless phrase. Even if you take the best mapping system on the market and improve it by 300%, it would STILL not be the "best experience possible". This reads very much like the kind of apology you give your wife when she's complaining about something stupid "I'm sorry that you're upset."
Really....
"That's not what Cook said. His apology said that he was sorry that Maps failed to meet users' expectations. That is not an admission that the product doesn't work. But feel free to point out anywhere that Cook said the application was defective."
So what was users expectation then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Sorry, but there are two options:
1. Live your life believing every whinefest thrown at you by the media and accept all the whining (or praise!) as gospel truth.
2. Choose to believe factual evidence when it is presented and remain skeptical of claims that are not supported by evidence.
+1
You assume that the issue is Apple. They get a huge chunk of their town and driving data from outside sources like TomTom. This could be a case of THAT source giving them corrupted data. How would they know this up front unless they sent folks out to every possible location in the world and if they were going to do that then why use TomTom at all.
So Apple ends up in the dumps no matter what. Either they deal with possible bad data when they are informed about it. Or they map it all themselves and we would have gotten another 5 years or so without Turn by Turn in the built in app because Google wasn't giving it up.
And what about the governments. The issues with iOS Maps have been very well advertised. Knowing how important it would be for folks to have accurate maps why didn't NSW, Vic etc offer their map data to Apple for verifying and updating the system, same as what China did.
The sentence before that one answered the question. He said that the customers expected "the best experience possible" and Apple Maps didn't provide it. That's a tautology. NO product provides "the best experience possible".
Again, it reads very much like an apology you'd give to your wife when you know she doesn't have any rational complaint: "I'm sorry you're upset".
But feel free to point out any wording in Tim's letter that supports your claim that the program is defective. While you're at it, how about some evidence that it's worse than the alternatives?
Which makes it seem more likely to me that the entire thing is a set up foisted by one of Apple's competitors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
And what about the governments. The issues with iOS Maps have been very well advertised. Knowing how important it would be for folks to have accurate maps why didn't NSW, Vic etc offer their map data to Apple for verifying and updating the system, same as what China did.
I don't think Apple had a choice there. The Chinese government controls what maps are permitted. If China doesn't want regions, roads or directions shown for particular areas that's the way it is. That's why TT can't offer their own maps for China. AFAIK they had to partner with a government-approved map provider to even offer navigation devices for sale there. Apple had to do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Search for them online.
There was one done in the SF Bay area which showed Apple Maps to be superior. One in Canada was roughly a wash. And a couple in China showed Apple Maps to be better.
Besides, I'm not the one claiming that Apple Maps is inferior. I'm simply pointing out that no one has yet provided evidence to support that claim.
No, you're claiming that Apple Maps is on par with Google Maps ... and yet you can't provide any evidence (let alone evidence from an unbiased source) to back up that claim. Suspicious.
Of course that sucks. It's normal that they are angry at maps but this kind of mistake happens to all navigation systems anyway, and maps is still far from perfect now. Never follow blindly your gps is an obvious rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
No, you're claiming that Apple Maps is on par with Google Maps ... and yet you can't provide any evidence (let alone evidence from an unbiased source) to back up that claim. Suspicious.
I'm amazed at how fast Google corrects their data. There was one poster here who showed a google maps screenshot of a place (in australia) that wasn't mapped. I looked at the data on bing that was up to date, suggested the modifications to google, and in a matter of minutes the streets were there! It's really amazing. If only Apple had this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
Correct Google Maps had problems when it was released too!! BUT they also had YEARS to get it right. So Apple had a time proven product and replaced it with one still in TESTING mode....knowing that it would take years to get it right. Then who tested the data? Apple even thought it was a failure... Tim even aplologized for it and FIRED the guy that was responsible.
Yep - Google only correctly shows my address in the correct physical location as of a couple years ago - despite the house being here since the mid 1970s and appearing clearly in Google satellite photos. While the error was only a few hundred feet - it did result in at least one case where a delivery van left a package with my address on it on my neighbor's front step. It was after dark when the package was delivered. Their website showed delivery confirmation and just before I called them I noticed a package on my neighbor's step - about 300 feet away on the other side of a wooded lot - and since the resident there was typically in Florida for most of the winter I figured I would check it out and it fact it was my package.
I also once had a GPS unit tell me to make a right turn in the middle of a bridge about 500 feet above a river - where there was no exit ramp - and proceed to have its signal messed up by something like a quarter mile from where I actually was for the ret of the trip - that was a Belkin Bluetooth unit and computer based software.
My TomTom unit is not very happy in Toronto, Ontario - had me make a lengthy series of left turns until I decide to just use the map on screen to get my own bearings and ignore the instructions until I was clear of the larger buildings that I suspect where interfering with the satellite signals.
In neither case did I need to call to be rescued or even complain to the respective manufacturers - I accepted that the technologies I used have limitations.
Sure the new non-google app looks totally different, but so do lots of upgraded apps (iTunes 11 vs 10 for example). With google maps, people became accustomed to 99.5% accuracy pretty much everywhere in the world. If they don't realize the data behind iOS 6 maps is completely different, it can lead to serious problems. Maybe 90% of north american and western european data is now accurate, but in many parts of the world it's absolutely terrible. I live part-time in Nepal, and Google maps is 99.5% accurate even in very remote areas, while iOS 6 maps are a step below having somebody who visited here once in the '60s drawing you a map with a crayon on a napkin during an earthquake.
Really, a year ago if you were driving to a fairly common tourist destination in a developed country, would you really feel the need to double check with an atlas or paper map if you had detailed directions from google maps? Probably not... I guess on the bright side, Apple is giving a boost to paper map publishers...
I disagree. There is lots of evidence that Apple's Maps is worse, in some areas, than the other mapping systems. Note the 'in some areas'.
What folks forget is that those services weren't perfect when they launched either. And in some ways still are not perfect. For its whole life, Google directions has told folks to go the wrong way down a street in my neighborhood that has been a one way for a good 20 years. Mapquest is missing a major rail line that has been around for a good couple of years. Almost every service has timetable errors left and right for our local public transit. And so on.
This article and the source ones are written to be hit foddering hyperboling more than anything else. Details are left out in masse so Apple looks worse than they likely are. Like how many times are we really talking about, was anyone really in danger (kids, elderly etc that can't go for a day without fluids like a healthy adult can) and so on. Apple bashing gets page hits. The local police did as they should and reminded folks that this is not an ages old system that has been proven to be perfect so be careful when using it. But then the media, even the locals, had to jump on it for the page hits. Because Apple is 'bank' when it comes to page hits, always keep that in mind when reading articles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
The sentence before that one answered the question. He said that the customers expected "the best experience possible" and Apple Maps didn't provide it. That's a tautology. NO product provides "the best experience possible".
Again, it reads very much like an apology you'd give to your wife when you know she doesn't have any rational complaint: "I'm sorry you're upset".
But feel free to point out any wording in Tim's letter that supports your claim that the program is defective. While you're at it, how about some evidence that it's worse than the alternatives?
Which makes it seem more likely to me that the entire thing is a set up foisted by one of Apple's competitors.
So what was the users expectations? Tim said Apple Maps did not meet those expectaitions...... If you want need anecdotal proof just look arond you.... in this thread...enough people have been posting it with great logical evidence. You read it but just don't see it.... Nothing i can point out or give you will change that. By your own posts Tim said Maps did not meet users expectations. So what did Apple users expect? We expect it to be on par with the rest of Apples offerings! We expect a great user experience and for it to just work. So if it failed expectations then it is defective........
Then perhaps before you gripe about mapping service you should gripe at your authorities to put up some damn signs. After all, driving into an area with crap cell service as this apparently was, you wouldn't have access to GPS to show you that you turned the wrong way etc and those signs would have pointed out your error. That gets folks lost just as much as bad electronic maps. And proper signs might have alerted these folks to a potential issue before it became one. I wonder what the rate of incidence was before all these SATNAV etc systems for that area. Sounds to me like it was just as bad to several times worse. And in those days folks might not have had a cell phone of any kind to try to get help, leading to more serious injury, illness or even death.