I found this interesting. I was thinking as I read this thread that anyone that uses a free apps in a remote location where they could get lost for 24 hours without food and water isn't very smart. While I don't like Apple maps because I do feel it could be better I would never use any free app if I was in a place where I could die if the map was incorrect. I use Google/Apple maps to get around traffic or to find a place for the first time.
I'm a big fan of national parks and travel to one or more per year. The US was the first to officially establish one, Yellowstone, in 1872. I also enjoy my TomTom app on my iPhone. That said, I have never once thought to use an electronic map in the park. Perhaps it's different in Australia than in the US but they usually offer comprehensive maps near or at the entrance of the park.
Did not say take away the maps system entirely, you said that, I said it should have been rolled out to NA for beta testing, as i said you read what you want to read.
I'm guessing that wan't a practical option. Most speculation has been that Apple's contract with Google for mapping data expires in June 2013, thus, most likely, in the middle of an iOS development cycle, with the next version not due till the Fall. So, basically, Apple had to either put its mapping software on iOS 6.0, or wait till iOS 7.0 (because they wouldn't have wanted to divert significant resources in the middle of developing iOS 7.0). The latter would have meant they would have been forced to sign a new contract with Google, on Google's terms, which would probably not have been a good thing for anyone but Google.
Sorry, but the post you linked to doesn't at all explain why Google Maps doesn't have to be perfect because it's being replaced, so, no, you still haven't explained why we should accept a double standard, or, if you reject that interpretation, how that doesn't establish a double standard.
Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.
Still laughing at your PS, though. Yes, we're all here to serve you.
Nope, but if you wish to have a rational debate (something I'm strongly beginning to doubt) you will want the people who are arguing against to read all your points, and editing your posts after they've been replied to makes it harder, not to mention that to anyone reading the thread, your edited posts make it sound like the person you're replying to is ignoring your points, when in fact they were made after the person replied to you.
According to the Victoria police, the amount of rescues required in the last 2 months has been unprecedented. They had to rescue 6 people in the last 2 months alone; all attributed to iOS maps. While I'm sure other people get lost using other mapping applications as well, there is a big difference between arriving to your location to find that your starbucks is not actually there, and being directed into the middle of nowhere.
The biggest problem I see is why was this not addressed earlier? Certainly after a life-threatening incidence, this was reported to Apple as an error. Where is all this "crowd sourcing" we have been hearing about? Why does it take a media frenzy to finally get something like this fixed in iOS maps. To me, that is the much bigger issue...
So, what are the statistics on other mapping services and rescues required? I mean, we need to understand what unprecedented means in this context.
So the police issuing a warning the public that Apple Maps was the cause of multiple instances of tourists getting dangerously lost is "not thinking straight"?
They're trying to avoid putting any more human lives at risk. And also saving the valueable resources needed to make the rescues by nipping the situation in the bud (of course, if they have to rescue them, they have to rescue them). Seems like they're thinking pretty straight to me.
Right, because no one ever gets lost using other software?
I found this interesting. I was thinking as I read this thread that anyone that uses a free apps in a remote location where they could get lost for 24 hours without food and water isn't very smart. While I don't like Apple maps because I do feel it could be better I would never use any free app if I was in a place where I could die if the map was incorrect. I use Google/Apple maps to get around traffic or to find a place for the first time.
I'm a big fan of national parks and travel to one or more per year. The US was the first to officially establish one, Yellowstone, in 1872. I also enjoy my TomTom app on my iPhone. That said, I have never once thought to use an electronic map in the park. Perhaps it's different in Australia than in the US but they usually offer comprehensive maps near or at the entrance of the park.
Just by way of contrast, for search and rescue operations, at least in my district including National Parks and National Forest, we have moved substantially over to electronic mapping.
I'm guessing that wan't a practical option. Most speculation has been that Apple's contract with Google for mapping data expires in June 2013, thus, most likely, in the middle of an iOS development cycle, with the next version not due till the Fall. So, basically, Apple had to either put its mapping software on iOS 6.0, or wait till iOS 7.0 (because they wouldn't have wanted to divert significant resources in the middle of developing iOS 7.0). The latter would have meant they would have been forced to sign a new contract with Google, on Google's terms, which would probably not have been a good thing for anyone but Google.
Thanks, like when people are constructive in their feedback of people's opinions and not just 'one liners' which treats us like we in kindergarden'.
You aren't an Australian, so you wouldn't know how bad the maps are here... They're pretty freakin bad!
I'm a fanboy, but I'm not going to lie... Apple maps are hopeless down under.
Embarrassing for mindless idiots...? In Australia, we have 4+ hrs gaps between towns (even longer). If you don't know where you're going, you're going to rely on your maps. If they aren't accurate, that's the fault of the map provider, not the user.
It's not like he drove randomly into the outback. He drove along a highway to a town, and his maps told him to turn (there aren't a lot of signs on some of our roads) so he wouldn't have had any reason to assume he was going the wrong way.
I think the thing we all learn from this, is maps aren't perfect. I don't know why you're on the defence of Apple? They stuffed up... Apple are human too... Why do you think Apple apologised and a guy got fired over Apple Maps? Because they're really bad. lol
Kudos to you for trying to educate him about anything outside of the US but I think it's going to fall on deaf ears. He's too focused on defending his technology choice and his favourite company to understand the issues that the other 95% of the world are facing.
Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.
Nope, but if you wish to have a rational debate (something I'm strongly beginning to doubt) you will want the people who are arguing against to read all your points, and editing your posts after they've been replied to makes it harder, not to mention that to anyone reading the thread, your edited posts make it sound like the person you're replying to is ignoring your points, when in fact they were made after the person replied to you.
That's why they put that little, "Edited by _____ - Today at ______" bit there.
Quote:
If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.
So, then, you're saying Google Maps isn't very good, but that's ok, Apple should have stuck with it anyway, because it was there?
So, what are the statistics on other mapping services and rescues required? I mean, we need to understand what unprecedented means in this context.
Considering that you are the one questioning the behavior of the Victoria police, shouldn't you be looking for these? I would think that one would have this information before judging the experts and calling their actions "irresponsible".
For my part, I am completely willing to accept the statements from the authorities and defer to their expertise until presented with a plausible reason to not do so.
Kudos to you for trying to educate him about anything outside of the US but I think it's going to fall on deaf ears. He's too focused on defending his technology choice and his favourite company to understand the issues that the other 95% of the world are facing.
Issue is not to rely on electronic map, but have old fashioned paper map for back-up and emergencies. In Australia 80% or more is just desert and wasteland, so I think you should have emergency gear in your car, If you travelling interstate or far distances.
It's only because the company is Apple, why this has been newsworthy, come on now, does any one not think that Google Maps has not lead many people astray over the years, lets get a reality check here!
BUT Apple could have done better before the release.
Considering that you are the one questioning the behavior of the Victoria police, shouldn't you be looking for these? I would think that one would have this information before judging the experts and calling their actions "irresponsible".
For my part, I am completely willing to accept the statements from the authorities and defer to their expertise until presented with a plausible reason to not do so.
But, they didn't make a statement on that, to my knowledge. Have they ever made a similar statement regarding any other mapping software? Did they qualify their statement by saying that other mapping software could pose similar risks? Still sounding like they got hysterical.
That's why they put that little, "<span style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:11px;line-height:normal;">Edited by _____ - Today at ______</span>
" bit there.
Perhaps, but it's still unreasonable to expect ME to look for ninja edits in any of the 320+ posts in this thread, or the audience to read the dates on all the posts in order to understand the timeline. Furthermore, while the edit time is tracked, the edited content isn't, thus making it impossible to tell whether a point was originally ignored or simply added by a later edit.
So, then, you're saying Google Maps isn't very good, but that's ok, Apple should have stuck with it anyway, because it was there?
Nope, I don't recall mentioning anything about the quality of Google Maps in this thread, so I wonder how you reached that conclusion (this is another framed question).
As an Australian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say: Hey, Dumbasses!, make sure you thoroughly test your shit before releasing it. You never know, someone might be stupid enough to use it.
I don't think this is as a matter of testing it. The product is working fine, it is just the data that need 'RECTIFYING'. As this involves the whole world data, it needs third party input i.e. end users to fix this.
When the first few people who encountered this problem just moan and blame Apple instead of submitting feedback, it would unnecessarily take longer to fix.
Apple Map works like shit here in Thailand. In 3D flyover, some buildings instead of being tall rectangular objects, they're circular domes. And most landscape a hundred miles outside of Bangkok is so pixelated it's impossible to make anything out. It's like they only care about perfecting the major countries and cities from around the world. What pathetic effort by Apple.
... Nope, I don't recall mentioning anything about the quality of Google Maps in this thread, so I wonder how you reached that conclusion (this is another framed question).
Just this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect. ...
as an explanation of what this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
... Google Maps does not have to be perfect because it did not replace anything.
meant. But now, it seems, you weren't saying anything at all about anything.
I mean, we've gotten all kinds around here in the past, but I'm not sure anyone has ever been quite as wriggly as you appear to be. So, now that you've denied saying anything about anything, do you have a point?
I don't think this is as a matter of testing it. The product is working fine, it is just the data that need 'RECTIFYING'. As this involves the whole world data, it needs third party input i.e. end users to fix this. When the first few people who encountered this problem just moan and blame Apple instead of submitting feedback, it would unnecessarily take longer to fix.
That's like going to a restaurant and the waiter saying your steak is fine, we just didn't cook it enough.
The Product *is* the data. Apple can easily pool the resources to make a beautiful looking app but it does nothing without the data. Nothing.
I would say the product is not working fine, but I agree that an undertaking like this is monstrous and needs third party help.
BTW, Mildura is still in the middle of a national park.
Right, because no one ever gets lost using other software?
But in this case, it wasn't "other software" that caused the tourists to get lost, was it? It was Apple Maps. And the police addressed it strictly as such.
Apple Map works like shit here in Thailand. In 3D flyover, some buildings instead of being tall rectangular objects, they're circular domes. And most landscape a hundred miles outside of Bangkok is so pixelated it's impossible to make anything out. It's like they only care about perfecting the major countries and cities from around the world. What pathetic effort by Apple.
Comments
I'm a big fan of national parks and travel to one or more per year. The US was the first to officially establish one, Yellowstone, in 1872. I also enjoy my TomTom app on my iPhone. That said, I have never once thought to use an electronic map in the park. Perhaps it's different in Australia than in the US but they usually offer comprehensive maps near or at the entrance of the park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul
Did not say take away the maps system entirely, you said that, I said it should have been rolled out to NA for beta testing, as i said you read what you want to read.
I'm guessing that wan't a practical option. Most speculation has been that Apple's contract with Google for mapping data expires in June 2013, thus, most likely, in the middle of an iOS development cycle, with the next version not due till the Fall. So, basically, Apple had to either put its mapping software on iOS 6.0, or wait till iOS 7.0 (because they wouldn't have wanted to divert significant resources in the middle of developing iOS 7.0). The latter would have meant they would have been forced to sign a new contract with Google, on Google's terms, which would probably not have been a good thing for anyone but Google.
Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.
Nope, but if you wish to have a rational debate (something I'm strongly beginning to doubt) you will want the people who are arguing against to read all your points, and editing your posts after they've been replied to makes it harder, not to mention that to anyone reading the thread, your edited posts make it sound like the person you're replying to is ignoring your points, when in fact they were made after the person replied to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas
According to the Victoria police, the amount of rescues required in the last 2 months has been unprecedented. They had to rescue 6 people in the last 2 months alone; all attributed to iOS maps. While I'm sure other people get lost using other mapping applications as well, there is a big difference between arriving to your location to find that your starbucks is not actually there, and being directed into the middle of nowhere.
The biggest problem I see is why was this not addressed earlier? Certainly after a life-threatening incidence, this was reported to Apple as an error. Where is all this "crowd sourcing" we have been hearing about? Why does it take a media frenzy to finally get something like this fixed in iOS maps. To me, that is the much bigger issue...
So, what are the statistics on other mapping services and rescues required? I mean, we need to understand what unprecedented means in this context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob
So the police issuing a warning the public that Apple Maps was the cause of multiple instances of tourists getting dangerously lost is "not thinking straight"?
They're trying to avoid putting any more human lives at risk. And also saving the valueable resources needed to make the rescues by nipping the situation in the bud (of course, if they have to rescue them, they have to rescue them). Seems like they're thinking pretty straight to me.
Right, because no one ever gets lost using other software?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
I found this interesting. I was thinking as I read this thread that anyone that uses a free apps in a remote location where they could get lost for 24 hours without food and water isn't very smart. While I don't like Apple maps because I do feel it could be better I would never use any free app if I was in a place where I could die if the map was incorrect. I use Google/Apple maps to get around traffic or to find a place for the first time.
I'm a big fan of national parks and travel to one or more per year. The US was the first to officially establish one, Yellowstone, in 1872. I also enjoy my TomTom app on my iPhone. That said, I have never once thought to use an electronic map in the park. Perhaps it's different in Australia than in the US but they usually offer comprehensive maps near or at the entrance of the park.
Just by way of contrast, for search and rescue operations, at least in my district including National Parks and National Forest, we have moved substantially over to electronic mapping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
I'm guessing that wan't a practical option. Most speculation has been that Apple's contract with Google for mapping data expires in June 2013, thus, most likely, in the middle of an iOS development cycle, with the next version not due till the Fall. So, basically, Apple had to either put its mapping software on iOS 6.0, or wait till iOS 7.0 (because they wouldn't have wanted to divert significant resources in the middle of developing iOS 7.0). The latter would have meant they would have been forced to sign a new contract with Google, on Google's terms, which would probably not have been a good thing for anyone but Google.
Thanks, like when people are constructive in their feedback of people's opinions and not just 'one liners' which treats us like we in kindergarden'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werdnanotroh
You aren't an Australian, so you wouldn't know how bad the maps are here... They're pretty freakin bad!
I'm a fanboy, but I'm not going to lie... Apple maps are hopeless down under.
Embarrassing for mindless idiots...? In Australia, we have 4+ hrs gaps between towns (even longer). If you don't know where you're going, you're going to rely on your maps. If they aren't accurate, that's the fault of the map provider, not the user.
It's not like he drove randomly into the outback. He drove along a highway to a town, and his maps told him to turn (there aren't a lot of signs on some of our roads) so he wouldn't have had any reason to assume he was going the wrong way.
I think the thing we all learn from this, is maps aren't perfect. I don't know why you're on the defence of Apple? They stuffed up... Apple are human too... Why do you think Apple apologised and a guy got fired over Apple Maps? Because they're really bad. lol
Kudos to you for trying to educate him about anything outside of the US but I think it's going to fall on deaf ears. He's too focused on defending his technology choice and his favourite company to understand the issues that the other 95% of the world are facing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.
Nope, but if you wish to have a rational debate (something I'm strongly beginning to doubt) you will want the people who are arguing against to read all your points, and editing your posts after they've been replied to makes it harder, not to mention that to anyone reading the thread, your edited posts make it sound like the person you're replying to is ignoring your points, when in fact they were made after the person replied to you.
That's why they put that little, "Edited by _____ - Today at ______" bit there.
Quote:
If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect.
So, then, you're saying Google Maps isn't very good, but that's ok, Apple should have stuck with it anyway, because it was there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
So, what are the statistics on other mapping services and rescues required? I mean, we need to understand what unprecedented means in this context.
Considering that you are the one questioning the behavior of the Victoria police, shouldn't you be looking for these? I would think that one would have this information before judging the experts and calling their actions "irresponsible".
For my part, I am completely willing to accept the statements from the authorities and defer to their expertise until presented with a plausible reason to not do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy2shoes
Kudos to you for trying to educate him about anything outside of the US but I think it's going to fall on deaf ears. He's too focused on defending his technology choice and his favourite company to understand the issues that the other 95% of the world are facing.
Issue is not to rely on electronic map, but have old fashioned paper map for back-up and emergencies. In Australia 80% or more is just desert and wasteland, so I think you should have emergency gear in your car, If you travelling interstate or far distances.
It's only because the company is Apple, why this has been newsworthy, come on now, does any one not think that Google Maps has not lead many people astray over the years, lets get a reality check here!
BUT Apple could have done better before the release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas
Considering that you are the one questioning the behavior of the Victoria police, shouldn't you be looking for these? I would think that one would have this information before judging the experts and calling their actions "irresponsible".
For my part, I am completely willing to accept the statements from the authorities and defer to their expertise until presented with a plausible reason to not do so.
But, they didn't make a statement on that, to my knowledge. Have they ever made a similar statement regarding any other mapping software? Did they qualify their statement by saying that other mapping software could pose similar risks? Still sounding like they got hysterical.
Perhaps, but it's still unreasonable to expect ME to look for ninja edits in any of the 320+ posts in this thread, or the audience to read the dates on all the posts in order to understand the timeline. Furthermore, while the edit time is tracked, the edited content isn't, thus making it impossible to tell whether a point was originally ignored or simply added by a later edit.
Nope, I don't recall mentioning anything about the quality of Google Maps in this thread, so I wonder how you reached that conclusion (this is another framed question).
Peeps,
So you do not blame Apple for your mistakes, here are the best known online mapping services for many countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_online_map_services
As an Australian, I'd like to take the opportunity to say: Hey, Dumbasses!, make sure you thoroughly test your shit before releasing it. You never know, someone might be stupid enough to use it.
I don't think this is as a matter of testing it. The product is working fine, it is just the data that need 'RECTIFYING'. As this involves the whole world data, it needs third party input i.e. end users to fix this.When the first few people who encountered this problem just moan and blame Apple instead of submitting feedback, it would unnecessarily take longer to fix.
Apple Map works like shit here in Thailand. In 3D flyover, some buildings instead of being tall rectangular objects, they're circular domes. And most landscape a hundred miles outside of Bangkok is so pixelated it's impossible to make anything out. It's like they only care about perfecting the major countries and cities from around the world. What pathetic effort by Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
... Nope, I don't recall mentioning anything about the quality of Google Maps in this thread, so I wonder how you reached that conclusion (this is another framed question).
Just this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Yes it does, in my explanation as to why people have more reason to expect quality from Apple Maps than they ever did from Google Maps. If people don't have reason to expect quality from Google Maps, it follows that Google Maps does not have to be perfect. ...
as an explanation of what this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
... Google Maps does not have to be perfect because it did not replace anything.
meant. But now, it seems, you weren't saying anything at all about anything.
I mean, we've gotten all kinds around here in the past, but I'm not sure anyone has ever been quite as wriggly as you appear to be. So, now that you've denied saying anything about anything, do you have a point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse
I don't think this is as a matter of testing it. The product is working fine, it is just the data that need 'RECTIFYING'. As this involves the whole world data, it needs third party input i.e. end users to fix this. When the first few people who encountered this problem just moan and blame Apple instead of submitting feedback, it would unnecessarily take longer to fix.That's like going to a restaurant and the waiter saying your steak is fine, we just didn't cook it enough.
The Product *is* the data. Apple can easily pool the resources to make a beautiful looking app but it does nothing without the data. Nothing.
I would say the product is not working fine, but I agree that an undertaking like this is monstrous and needs third party help.
BTW, Mildura is still in the middle of a national park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Right, because no one ever gets lost using other software?
But in this case, it wasn't "other software" that caused the tourists to get lost, was it? It was Apple Maps. And the police addressed it strictly as such.
Originally Posted by capoeira4u
Apple Map works like shit here in Thailand. In 3D flyover, some buildings instead of being tall rectangular objects, they're circular domes. And most landscape a hundred miles outside of Bangkok is so pixelated it's impossible to make anything out. It's like they only care about perfecting the major countries and cities from around the world. What pathetic effort by Apple.
Sounds just like Google at launch.