When you can make something at your profit margin, and at that price take away the sales from the other companies cannabalizing your line, you do it.
Ah, but were they? That's the key. We don't really know because they refuse to publish their numbers.
Good Idea = Make Money you aren't already making, without selling your future out.
Agreed. A smaller one doesn't preclude larger ones.
The question was pricepoint.
My question now is why they didn't just go the iPhone route with this.
I don't think a 40" would work well for total ROI.
Oh, it'll be a while, sure. Long after OS XI is released we'd see models that large, simply because the tech would be ludicrously expensive at first. But I think 27" might be the bottom size in a touchscreen desktop OS…
I knew the small one would sell better than the big one if they made one. Doesn't mean making one was a good idea.
A 40" touchscreen computer will sell better than either of these models. The key is the interface.
I'd really like a 15" iPad-equivalent for portable stuff, too. Do I think that would sell as well as the 8"? I think it would sell better than the 10".
Well.... you did say it would be an inferior product. You never mentioned you thought it would sell well - as far as I remember. You must have filled several never ending web pages with your rationale over the last god knows how many months on this subject (but that's OK cuz I KNOW you are tucked behind your screen eating humble pie for lunch every day, even if you deny it ).
A 40" touch screen will NOT sell better no matter how great the interface. 40"? Who are you kidding?
A 15" ipad would be a niche product. What would it be used for? If as a pro tool (I can see that) it would be too expensive for most users.
Perhaps a smaller iPad was the "perfect size" all along.
For some folks sure. And those folks were likely to have never bought an iPad or would have. So they were a huge untapped market that, well Apple is now tapping that. Same with things like Schools that thought the whole iPad idea was cool but those big tablets and little hands were not a good fit so they were holding off. And so on.
The regular sized iPad has been around so the thrill isn't there and the changes from a 3 to a 4 where just not that huge to warrant changing so the best the 4 might get is a few first time buyers and folks still using an iPad 2. But not really a huge flood (especially since a lot of first time buyers were likely more interested in the iPad Mini which is why they hadn't bought before or went cheap for the first buy in and got an ipad 2)
Well.... you did say it would be an inferior product. You never mentioned you thought it would sell well - as far as I remember. You must have filled several never ending web pages with your rationale over the last god knows how many months on this subject (but that's OK cuz I KNOW you are tucked behind your screen eating humble pie for lunch every day, even if you deny it ).
That's the way I remembered it. I don't recall him EVER saying that it would sell well. All we got was page after page after page of why Apple shouldn't and wouldn't do it.
Oh, it'll be a while, sure. Long after OS XI is released we'd see models that large, simply because the tech would be ludicrously expensive at first. But I think 27" might be the bottom size in a touchscreen desktop OS…
Its an interesting idea and perhaps the advent of tablets and 'touch' will slowly make computers with keyboards and other input devices redundant (people won't know how to use them / relate to them), so yeah... maybe.
The problem persists with touch however - keep it upright and your arm dies after short usage, keep it flat or somewhat angled on a desktop and people who spend hours in front of their computer will develop neck problems.
I frankly won't be interested at all in an iPad Mini until the screen is low res. I'm used to my iPad 2 so it's fine, but just comparing the mini's screen with that of an iPhone or other tablets, it's night and day. Low-res, worse colors and brightness... The new iPad is a lot better.
The problematic part is, now that iPad mini becomes the standard, people will start to use the $329 as the anchor for tablets which means it'd be hard for Apple to create new premium products and higher price points that people will be willing to pay for.
$999 is the starting price for Apple laptops and they have no problem selling premium models that go up to $3000
Perhaps a smaller iPad was the "perfect size" all along.
Unfortunately, it's not the first time one of Steve's strongest beliefs (or at least public statement, if not personal belief) turned out to be wrong. See the one-button mouse. Fortunately, in the past decade, him being wrong has been mercifully rare.
Well.... you did say it would be an inferior product. You never mentioned you thought it would sell well - as far as I remember. You must have filled several never ending web pages with your rationale over the last god knows how many months on this subject (but that's OK cuz I KNOW you are tucked behind your screen eating humble pie for lunch every day, even if you deny it ).
A 40" touch screen will NOT sell better no matter how great the interface. 40"? Who are you kidding?
A 15" ipad would be a niche product. What would it be used for? If as a pro tool (I can see that) it would be too expensive for most users.
Of course he knew but thought that was a stupid idea. That would mean that he thinks that all the people who buy it are stupid and that he's the wisest. That's just his character.
Casual users will prefer mini. For checking emails, reading ebooks or casual surfing, mini cannot be beaten.
I have mini and ipad 4 and most of the time i use the ipad 4 because it gives me better experience, especially with some of the retina apps i bought.
There is no 'best' ipad for everyone, it really depends on how one uses the ipad.
This 'cannibalism' and 'margin' theme is so overblown. If rumor be true and Apple manages to slim down the 9.7 IPAD 5 considerably, then I don't think I will ever be tempted by the mini. My children can continue to use my mini.
Everyone stay out of the way while TS' head explodes.
TS wasn't the person I was thinking about when I read this. There was one other member that went on and on and on and on about how a smaller size was not necessary and that all of our reasons for wanting a smaller size were basically horseshit.
As possible evidence of slacking demand for the larger iPad, Walmart is dropping the price for the Wi-fi 4th Gen to an attractive $399. I'd imagine that should bump up the sales a bit.
Note too that the iPhone5 is getting a big slash in price, down to $127. Seems a little early to see heavy discounting on the most recent model tho, Perhaps the rumors of another iPhone model announcement in just a couple of months have some validity.
As possible evidence of slacking demand for the larger iPad, Walmart is dropping the price for the Wi-fi 4th Gen to an attractive $399. I'd imagine that should bump up the sales a bit.
Note too that the iPhone5 is getting a big slash in price, down to $127. Seems a little early to see heavy discounting on the most recent model tho, Perhaps the rumors of another iPhone model announcement in just a couple of months have some validity.
Casual users will prefer mini. For checking emails, reading ebooks or casual surfing, mini cannot be beaten.
I have mini and ipad 4 and most of the time i use the ipad 4 because it gives me better experience, especially with some of the retina apps i bought.
There is no 'best' ipad for everyone, it really depends on how one uses the ipad.
This 'cannibalism' and 'margin' theme is so overblown. If rumor be true and Apple manages to slim down the 9.7 IPAD 5 considerably, then I don't think I will ever be tempted by the mini. My children can continue to use my mini.
Before the Mini the only difference was price and quality of experience. Was there no 'best' iPad for everyone? of course there was... there was 'better than everyone else's tablet' and 'Best iPad... for $100 more'.
Now that we have 2 form factors at 3 base price points, Apple has to earn it's keep from the owners (me!) in balancing profit margin, competitive balance, and apple's streamlined product line (8 colors for iPad Mini? gawd I hope not!) . so Margin is not overblown (easy now... 2 months ago, We all thought the price was TOO HIGH? to maintain margin).
As for cannibalism, you're right, internal cannibalism is overblown, ONLY IF you have your margins right...
OK.... I think I stand by the statement.... As a professional tool, perhaps, but never as a touch only from Apple. I would love to see TS walking around with a 40" iPad, however.
The problematic part is, now that iPad mini becomes the standard, people will start to use the $329 as the anchor for tablets which means it'd be hard for Apple to create new premium products and higher price points that people will be willing to pay for.
Besides margin suppression and lower revenue of iPad mini vs. iPad 4, this is also part of the reason why AAPL is struggling
Lower price should reach a larger audience. So revenue could be higher or remain the same if they sell enough units.
(but that's OK cuz I KNOW you are tucked behind your screen eating humble pie for lunch every day, even if you deny it ).
That I keep saying it's a terrible idea shows that this isn't the case, I'd think.
A 40" touch screen will NOT sell better no matter how great the interface. 40"? Who are you kidding?
Who are YOU kidding? How big is your desk? Tell me that 27" wouldn't become too small a workspace for you after a few weeks of having a touchscreen UI on it. 40" would be glorious. I dunno, I know I'm on the high end of that, but 21.5" is definitely too small to start.
A 15" ipad would be a niche product. What would it be used for?
The 15" MacBook Pro isn't a niche product. Come on, man.
As possible evidence of slacking demand for the larger iPad, Walmart is dropping the price for the Wi-fi 4th Gen to an attractive $399. I'd imagine that should bump up the sales a bit.
Note too that the iPhone5 is getting a big slash in price, down to $127. Seems a little early to see heavy discounting on the most recent model tho, Perhaps the rumors of another iPhone model announcement in just a couple of months have some validity.
Who's dropping their price on the iPhone? A dying Best Buy? Certainly not AT&T or Verizon.
Comments
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
When you can make something at your profit margin, and at that price take away the sales from the other companies cannabalizing your line, you do it.
Ah, but were they? That's the key. We don't really know because they refuse to publish their numbers.
Good Idea = Make Money you aren't already making, without selling your future out.
Agreed. A smaller one doesn't preclude larger ones.
The question was pricepoint.
My question now is why they didn't just go the iPhone route with this.
I don't think a 40" would work well for total ROI.
Oh, it'll be a while, sure. Long after OS XI is released we'd see models that large, simply because the tech would be ludicrously expensive at first. But I think 27" might be the bottom size in a touchscreen desktop OS…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I knew the small one would sell better than the big one if they made one. Doesn't mean making one was a good idea.
A 40" touchscreen computer will sell better than either of these models. The key is the interface.
I'd really like a 15" iPad-equivalent for portable stuff, too. Do I think that would sell as well as the 8"? I think it would sell better than the 10".
Well.... you did say it would be an inferior product. You never mentioned you thought it would sell well - as far as I remember. You must have filled several never ending web pages with your rationale over the last god knows how many months on this subject (but that's OK cuz I KNOW you are tucked behind your screen eating humble pie for lunch every day, even if you deny it
A 40" touch screen will NOT sell better no matter how great the interface. 40"? Who are you kidding?
A 15" ipad would be a niche product. What would it be used for? If as a pro tool (I can see that) it would be too expensive for most users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
HUH...
Perhaps a smaller iPad was the "perfect size" all along.
For some folks sure. And those folks were likely to have never bought an iPad or would have. So they were a huge untapped market that, well Apple is now tapping that. Same with things like Schools that thought the whole iPad idea was cool but those big tablets and little hands were not a good fit so they were holding off. And so on.
The regular sized iPad has been around so the thrill isn't there and the changes from a 3 to a 4 where just not that huge to warrant changing so the best the 4 might get is a few first time buyers and folks still using an iPad 2. But not really a huge flood (especially since a lot of first time buyers were likely more interested in the iPad Mini which is why they hadn't bought before or went cheap for the first buy in and got an ipad 2)
That's the way I remembered it. I don't recall him EVER saying that it would sell well. All we got was page after page after page of why Apple shouldn't and wouldn't do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Oh, it'll be a while, sure. Long after OS XI is released we'd see models that large, simply because the tech would be ludicrously expensive at first. But I think 27" might be the bottom size in a touchscreen desktop OS…
Its an interesting idea and perhaps the advent of tablets and 'touch' will slowly make computers with keyboards and other input devices redundant (people won't know how to use them / relate to them), so yeah... maybe.
The problem persists with touch however - keep it upright and your arm dies after short usage, keep it flat or somewhat angled on a desktop and people who spend hours in front of their computer will develop neck problems.
I frankly won't be interested at all in an iPad Mini until the screen is low res. I'm used to my iPad 2 so it's fine, but just comparing the mini's screen with that of an iPhone or other tablets, it's night and day. Low-res, worse colors and brightness... The new iPad is a lot better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever
The problematic part is, now that iPad mini becomes the standard, people will start to use the $329 as the anchor for tablets which means it'd be hard for Apple to create new premium products and higher price points that people will be willing to pay for.
$999 is the starting price for Apple laptops and they have no problem selling premium models that go up to $3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
HUH...
Perhaps a smaller iPad was the "perfect size" all along.
Unfortunately, it's not the first time one of Steve's strongest beliefs (or at least public statement, if not personal belief) turned out to be wrong. See the one-button mouse. Fortunately, in the past decade, him being wrong has been mercifully rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
Well.... you did say it would be an inferior product. You never mentioned you thought it would sell well - as far as I remember. You must have filled several never ending web pages with your rationale over the last god knows how many months on this subject (but that's OK cuz I KNOW you are tucked behind your screen eating humble pie for lunch every day, even if you deny it
A 40" touch screen will NOT sell better no matter how great the interface. 40"? Who are you kidding?
A 15" ipad would be a niche product. What would it be used for? If as a pro tool (I can see that) it would be too expensive for most users.
Of course he knew but thought that was a stupid idea. That would mean that he thinks that all the people who buy it are stupid and that he's the wisest. That's just his character.
Casual users will prefer mini. For checking emails, reading ebooks or casual surfing, mini cannot be beaten.
I have mini and ipad 4 and most of the time i use the ipad 4 because it gives me better experience, especially with some of the retina apps i bought.
There is no 'best' ipad for everyone, it really depends on how one uses the ipad.
This 'cannibalism' and 'margin' theme is so overblown. If rumor be true and Apple manages to slim down the 9.7 IPAD 5 considerably, then I don't think I will ever be tempted by the mini. My children can continue to use my mini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Everyone stay out of the way while TS' head explodes.
TS wasn't the person I was thinking about when I read this. There was one other member that went on and on and on and on about how a smaller size was not necessary and that all of our reasons for wanting a smaller size were basically horseshit.
I should look that up and post who it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
A 40" touch screen will NOT sell better no matter how great the interface. 40"? Who are you kidding?
I'm recording this for future reference.
As possible evidence of slacking demand for the larger iPad, Walmart is dropping the price for the Wi-fi 4th Gen to an attractive $399. I'd imagine that should bump up the sales a bit.
Note too that the iPhone5 is getting a big slash in price, down to $127. Seems a little early to see heavy discounting on the most recent model tho, Perhaps the rumors of another iPhone model announcement in just a couple of months have some validity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
As possible evidence of slacking demand for the larger iPad, Walmart is dropping the price for the Wi-fi 4th Gen to an attractive $399. I'd imagine that should bump up the sales a bit.
Note too that the iPhone5 is getting a big slash in price, down to $127. Seems a little early to see heavy discounting on the most recent model tho, Perhaps the rumors of another iPhone model announcement in just a couple of months have some validity.
AAPL dropped another $2 after you wrote that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisely
Casual users will prefer mini. For checking emails, reading ebooks or casual surfing, mini cannot be beaten.
I have mini and ipad 4 and most of the time i use the ipad 4 because it gives me better experience, especially with some of the retina apps i bought.
There is no 'best' ipad for everyone, it really depends on how one uses the ipad.
This 'cannibalism' and 'margin' theme is so overblown. If rumor be true and Apple manages to slim down the 9.7 IPAD 5 considerably, then I don't think I will ever be tempted by the mini. My children can continue to use my mini.
Before the Mini the only difference was price and quality of experience. Was there no 'best' iPad for everyone? of course there was... there was 'better than everyone else's tablet' and 'Best iPad... for $100 more'.
Now that we have 2 form factors at 3 base price points, Apple has to earn it's keep from the owners (me!) in balancing profit margin, competitive balance, and apple's streamlined product line (8 colors for iPad Mini? gawd I hope not!) . so Margin is not overblown (easy now... 2 months ago, We all thought the price was TOO HIGH? to maintain margin).
As for cannibalism, you're right, internal cannibalism is overblown, ONLY IF you have your margins right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I'm recording this for future reference.
OK.... I think I stand by the statement.... As a professional tool, perhaps, but never as a touch only from Apple. I would love to see TS walking around with a 40" iPad, however.
Lower price should reach a larger audience. So revenue could be higher or remain the same if they sell enough units.
Analysts: "Guys, we think we have a great idea to finally destroy Apple's stock... and profit from it big time."
Originally Posted by paxman
(but that's OK cuz I KNOW you are tucked behind your screen eating humble pie for lunch every day, even if you deny it
That I keep saying it's a terrible idea shows that this isn't the case, I'd think.
A 40" touch screen will NOT sell better no matter how great the interface. 40"? Who are you kidding?
Who are YOU kidding? How big is your desk? Tell me that 27" wouldn't become too small a workspace for you after a few weeks of having a touchscreen UI on it. 40" would be glorious. I dunno, I know I'm on the high end of that, but 21.5" is definitely too small to start.
A 15" ipad would be a niche product. What would it be used for?
The 15" MacBook Pro isn't a niche product. Come on, man.