When it was showed that Android shipped 73% of the phones everyone on this site said that market share is not important to apple. Now apple sold the most phones it is important?
"It is important" only to whoever is conducting the survey.
When Apple designs a phone... and sells a phone... and makes money from a phone... they are working for themselves. They want to make great products.
It doesn't really matter how they "rank" among everybody else.
South Europe, Latin America, and Eastern Europe are all looking ugly. Not sure why Cook does not understand that cheap customers today locked into Apple ecosystem would be his lucrative customers in future. And almost everyone buying cheap WP and Android today is likely lost by Apple for very long time.
Yeah, all those people who used Windows Mobile 6, and all those loyal Palm Treo, Nokia, and Blackberry users in 2006. Totally locked in, and was likely lost by Apple for a very long time.
So you're comparing Android OS to a single HW vendor? Do you not see how that makes no sense?
Not to be pedantic, but that's not actually true. He's comparing everything running Android to everything running iOS. The fact that Apple is the only manufacturer using the OS could be interpreted as irrelevant.
I can remember friends and family buying DOS/Windows machines in the early 90s and they would be phoning me all the time asking if I would come over to get their printers working, to get their programs loaded, to get their machines rebooted... the requests were endless and ongoing.
Truth was, I didn't really have that much knowledge where pc machines were concerned. They only thought I did because I was swapping out hard drives, adding ram, connecting printers, adding tape back-ups without any problems... BECAUSE I OWNED A MAC (well, three of them at that time).
For the every day, no nothing about computers, person, there seemed to be only one choice at the time... but the vast majority of those people were buying pc machines.
Yup. Android is winning with these devices (German Groupon) being sold all over the place here in Germany.
Without even bothering to translate, just look at those steller specs. /s
BTW: last weekend I ran across someone with a similar device, and he stated, "this is soooo much better than the iPad and Apple devices for the price. Not to mention I can run install any program, and any content from any "source" for free. Paying for Apps, movies or music is just being dumb." The device needless to say was no comparison to an iPad, let alone a Nexus 7. Hideous piece of trash!
That's what it comes down to. I've read articles where similar devices are selling by the truckload in India, Asia, Africa, S.America for as little as $50.00. The vast majority of those purchasers will NEVER be potential Apple customers, App developer supporters or content purchasers....ever.
Last note: it's also ironic that one of the largest selling points is all of the free Apps... which is true... but also all of the content and developers efforts for paid apps and content as well. MS was able to get a major strangle-hold on the market in the 90's by "allowing" Windows to be hackable, that there wasn't any market for paid software outside of N. America. It was the reason for Windows in the first place: the largest closet of "free" software in the world.
I stated ironic, because Win8 and the new Store are not doing so well... and I don't ever expect them to be successful, unless all Apps and content on it are eventually free. Even then, outside of NA there will always be "alternative sources".
Does anyone have a theory to explain why IOS market share seems to be declining in Italy, Spain, Australia, Brasil and barely holding flat in some other countries listed in the figures ? Does it merely reflect the phased market launches in these countries or is there some more substantial issue ?
In Germany it seems to be marginal. 0.4% growth is probably zero within the margin of error of the data. It certainly is a long way from anything like domination in this market.
Does anyone have a theory to explain why IOS market share seems to be declining in Italy, Spain, Australia, Brasil and barely holding flat in some other countries listed in the figures ? Does it merely reflect the phased market launches in these countries or is there some more substantial issue ?
In Germany it seems to be marginal. 0.4% growth is probably zero within the margin of error of the data. It certainly is a long way from anything like domination in this market.
Just interested.
Since you mentioned Germany just a quick look at the German Apple store site, gives you a wealth of information.
For example: iPhone 5 starting at 679 euros. Let's throw in the 4S as well, for argument's sake, at 579 euros. That's pre-paid with no contract.
I'm pretty sure you can find Android powered phones, latest generation for much less than that.
Now head on to the T-Mobile site Deutschland and you find the iPhone 5 subsidized at 379, 229 or 129 euros. Only when you get to a very expensive plan like, 90 euros a month, do you get the handset at 1 euro.
Apple is still a premium item whose prices don't fluctuate much, as opposed to the Android world, where carriers give great deals, because last month's flagship Samsung phone is now replaced with this month's flagship LG phone and so on.
Since you mentioned Germany just a quick look at the German Apple store site, gives you a wealth of information.
For example: iPhone 5 starting at 679 euros. Let's throw in the 4S as well, for argument's sake, at 579 euros. That's pre-paid with no contract.
I'm pretty sure you can find Android powered phones, latest generation for much less than that.
Now head on to the T-Mobile site Deutschland and you find the iPhone 5 subsidized at 379, 229 or 129 euros. Only when you get to a very expensive plan like, 90 euros a month, do you get the handset at 1 euro.
Apple is still a premium item whose prices don't fluctuate much, as opposed to the Android world, where carriers give great deals, because last month's flagship Samsung phone is now replaced with this month's flagship LG phone and so on.
As you might guess, I'm quite familiar with the German market. I think most people over here are intelligent enough to be able to do the arithmetic. In general the price of a "subsidized" mobile (they call them "handy's" in Germany, which is a much better name :-) ) is substantially higher than buying a non-subsidized phone and having the choice of provider and plan. T-mobile still carries the stigma of its past as a state monopoly for many people in Germany. Customer service is still not impressive (but T-mobile is not alone on that count).
But my question was directed to why the I5 doesn't seem to be taking off in Europe in anything like the way it does in the US. I can see that language issues may play a role. Is siri for example comparably good in french, german, spanish and italian as it is in the US? Are there limitations in the availability of native language translations of the drawcard Apps, or what is behind the less than impressive market share ?
In Germany at least, LTE is not a significant drawcard because the coverage is so patchy that it is not available in most locations. It will probably be well into 2014 before that changes much.
So maybe its just a simple fact that the "premium" qualities don't seem to justify the price for most potential buyers. I don't know. It would seem plausible. But whatever the reason, it doesn't seem that the I5 is making waves in europe at all. .... just barely managing to keep the market share stable in some countries, but declining in most, while android seems to be gaining market share at an accelerating pace. That's what the numbers in the original post seem to say.
Just for fun I did a quick check of the plans in Germany.
T-mobile with a subsidized cost of €1 for the 16 G I5 and the monthly rate of €99 works out at €107/month or €2568 for the contracted 24 months.
An equivalent allnet-flatrate sells for €39.99 / month or 959.76 over the 24 months, which is just over €1608 saving. So adding the cost of the 64 Gb I5 at €899 leaves you with something like €709 change in your pocket. You must be insane to think that the T-mobile subsidized packet is a good deal.
I suspect its probably similar in all subsidized markets.
There's no free lunch. The providers are not going to subsidize Apple's profits, so the user pays in every case.
And fast forward to today... Apple's laptops start at $1000.
Apple finally realized that selling a few expensive things is a better business plan than selling many cheap crappy things.
Seriously... what does "moar market share!" get you other than being on top of a market share chart?
Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest.
Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest.
This hostility to market share is ...... strange.
Why would a customer care if a company's product is successful? Why would a customer care if the product they invested in will be supported in the future? Really?!
As you might guess, I'm quite familiar with the German market. I think most people over here are intelligent enough to be able to do the arithmetic. In general the price of a "subsidized" mobile (they call them "handy's" in Germany, which is a much better name :-) ) is substantially higher than buying a non-subsidized phone and having the choice of provider and plan. T-mobile still carries the stigma of its past as a state monopoly for many people in Germany. Customer service is still not impressive (but T-mobile is not alone on that count).
But my question was directed to why the I5 doesn't seem to be taking off in Europe in anything like the way it does in the US. I can see that language issues may play a role. Is siri for example comparably good in french, german, spanish and italian as it is in the US? Are there limitations in the availability of native language translations of the drawcard Apps, or what is behind the less than impressive market share ?
In Germany at least, LTE is not a significant drawcard because the coverage is so patchy that it is not available in most locations. It will probably be well into 2014 before that changes much.
So maybe its just a simple fact that the "premium" qualities don't seem to justify the price for most potential buyers. I don't know. It would seem plausible. But whatever the reason, it doesn't seem that the I5 is making waves in europe at all. .... just barely managing to keep the market share stable in some countries, but declining in most, while android seems to be gaining market share at an accelerating pace. That's what the numbers in the original post seem to say.
Anyone have any good explanations/theories ??
You've almost answered your own question. Siri is crap outside the US ( even in English speaking countries). But Siri is probably not the issue.
In the US Apple gets amazing subsidies and the US does not have a pre paid market ( a market which is not just confined to poor markets. I was pre paid in the UK prior to the iPhone) So all things being equal the iPhone wins. Big price differences - Android wins.
Why would a customer care if a company's product is successful? Why would a customer care if the product they invested in will be supported in the future? Really?!
Yeah. That's my point. The higher the market share the more likely all this is to happen particularly on a platform, and iOS is a platform.
What I don't get is apple fans who are hostile to increase in market share - via cheaper devices - why argue against that?
And yet with "half" the marketshare, iOS is the undisputed winner for developers.
For now. You are not really arguing the point. Do you think that us iOS is at 1% devs will be around? If not then market share matters.
What's odd - to me - is the hostility to market share increases by sone iOS owners, providing profits are maintained ( and why wouldn't they be?) I suppose they feel less special.
For the last four years, yeah, as Android was born and blossomed into the Sumatran rotting corpse flower it is today. And yet iOS only gets more developers.
Yeah. That's my point. The higher the market share the more likely all this is to happen particularly on a platform, and iOS is a platform.
What I don't get is apple fans who are hostile to increase in market share - via cheaper devices - why argue against that?
Your point is flawed. Higher marketshare doesn't mean that a product will be better. If a company is continuing to lose money to obtain that market share then they will continue to cut even more corners to try to reduce their costs to obtain it. There is a reason why Apple is seen as the only PC manufacture who innovates. Dell, HP, Acer they, in fact, do innovate, but they innovate new ways to cut corners as they race to the bottom and in the process they have soiled their brands so much that Apple dominates all profitable portion of the PC market to such an extent that they can't compete. So, yes, so show me a company that knows how to create a profit on a product that people love and I'll show a company that knows how to add value to their products. There is a reason Apple, of all the CE companies, is able to create products that hold their value.
Comments
"It is important" only to whoever is conducting the survey.
When Apple designs a phone... and sells a phone... and makes money from a phone... they are working for themselves. They want to make great products.
It doesn't really matter how they "rank" among everybody else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
And fast forward to today... Apple's laptops start at $1000.
Apple finally realized that selling a few expensive things is a better business plan than selling many cheap crappy things.
Seriously... what does "moar market share!" get you other than being on top of a market share chart?
I don't think you really got the gist of what was being said.
[... and, besides, I don't think I'd hear Cook moan if he sold another 30 million phones]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98
South Europe, Latin America, and Eastern Europe are all looking ugly. Not sure why Cook does not understand that cheap customers today locked into Apple ecosystem would be his lucrative customers in future. And almost everyone buying cheap WP and Android today is likely lost by Apple for very long time.
P.S. link to the full stats:
http://www.kantarworldpanel.com/dwl.php?sn=news_downloads&id=111
Yeah, all those people who used Windows Mobile 6, and all those loyal Palm Treo, Nokia, and Blackberry users in 2006. Totally locked in, and was likely lost by Apple for a very long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Actually hubris and arrogance can be fixed.
Too bad jealousy and envy can't be fixed.
Oops... gotcha
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So you're comparing Android OS to a single HW vendor? Do you not see how that makes no sense?
Not to be pedantic, but that's not actually true. He's comparing everything running Android to everything running iOS. The fact that Apple is the only manufacturer using the OS could be interpreted as irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
Oops... gotcha
I can remember friends and family buying DOS/Windows machines in the early 90s and they would be phoning me all the time asking if I would come over to get their printers working, to get their programs loaded, to get their machines rebooted... the requests were endless and ongoing.
Truth was, I didn't really have that much knowledge where pc machines were concerned. They only thought I did because I was swapping out hard drives, adding ram, connecting printers, adding tape back-ups without any problems... BECAUSE I OWNED A MAC (well, three of them at that time).
For the every day, no nothing about computers, person, there seemed to be only one choice at the time... but the vast majority of those people were buying pc machines.
Yup. Android is winning with these devices (German Groupon) being sold all over the place here in Germany.
Without even bothering to translate, just look at those steller specs. /s
BTW: last weekend I ran across someone with a similar device, and he stated, "this is soooo much better than the iPad and Apple devices for the price. Not to mention I can run install any program, and any content from any "source" for free. Paying for Apps, movies or music is just being dumb." The device needless to say was no comparison to an iPad, let alone a Nexus 7. Hideous piece of trash!
That's what it comes down to. I've read articles where similar devices are selling by the truckload in India, Asia, Africa, S.America for as little as $50.00. The vast majority of those purchasers will NEVER be potential Apple customers, App developer supporters or content purchasers....ever.
Last note: it's also ironic that one of the largest selling points is all of the free Apps... which is true... but also all of the content and developers efforts for paid apps and content as well. MS was able to get a major strangle-hold on the market in the 90's by "allowing" Windows to be hackable, that there wasn't any market for paid software outside of N. America. It was the reason for Windows in the first place: the largest closet of "free" software in the world.
I stated ironic, because Win8 and the new Store are not doing so well... and I don't ever expect them to be successful, unless all Apps and content on it are eventually free. Even then, outside of NA there will always be "alternative sources".
Does anyone have a theory to explain why IOS market share seems to be declining in Italy, Spain, Australia, Brasil and barely holding flat in some other countries listed in the figures ? Does it merely reflect the phased market launches in these countries or is there some more substantial issue ?
In Germany it seems to be marginal. 0.4% growth is probably zero within the margin of error of the data. It certainly is a long way from anything like domination in this market.
Just interested.
Quote:
Does anyone have a theory to explain why IOS market share seems to be declining in Italy, Spain, Australia, Brasil and barely holding flat in some other countries listed in the figures ? Does it merely reflect the phased market launches in these countries or is there some more substantial issue ?
In Germany it seems to be marginal. 0.4% growth is probably zero within the margin of error of the data. It certainly is a long way from anything like domination in this market.
Just interested.
Since you mentioned Germany just a quick look at the German Apple store site, gives you a wealth of information.
For example: iPhone 5 starting at 679 euros. Let's throw in the 4S as well, for argument's sake, at 579 euros. That's pre-paid with no contract.
I'm pretty sure you can find Android powered phones, latest generation for much less than that.
Now head on to the T-Mobile site Deutschland and you find the iPhone 5 subsidized at 379, 229 or 129 euros. Only when you get to a very expensive plan like, 90 euros a month, do you get the handset at 1 euro.
Apple is still a premium item whose prices don't fluctuate much, as opposed to the Android world, where carriers give great deals, because last month's flagship Samsung phone is now replaced with this month's flagship LG phone and so on.
Sources:
http://www.t-mobile.de/iphone/iphone-5/0,24374,27657-_,00.html
http://store.apple.com/de/browse/home/shop_iphone
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDBA
Since you mentioned Germany just a quick look at the German Apple store site, gives you a wealth of information.
For example: iPhone 5 starting at 679 euros. Let's throw in the 4S as well, for argument's sake, at 579 euros. That's pre-paid with no contract.
I'm pretty sure you can find Android powered phones, latest generation for much less than that.
Now head on to the T-Mobile site Deutschland and you find the iPhone 5 subsidized at 379, 229 or 129 euros. Only when you get to a very expensive plan like, 90 euros a month, do you get the handset at 1 euro.
Apple is still a premium item whose prices don't fluctuate much, as opposed to the Android world, where carriers give great deals, because last month's flagship Samsung phone is now replaced with this month's flagship LG phone and so on.
Sources:
http://www.t-mobile.de/iphone/iphone-5/0,24374,27657-_,00.html
http://store.apple.com/de/browse/home/shop_iphone
As you might guess, I'm quite familiar with the German market. I think most people over here are intelligent enough to be able to do the arithmetic. In general the price of a "subsidized" mobile (they call them "handy's" in Germany, which is a much better name :-) ) is substantially higher than buying a non-subsidized phone and having the choice of provider and plan. T-mobile still carries the stigma of its past as a state monopoly for many people in Germany. Customer service is still not impressive (but T-mobile is not alone on that count).
But my question was directed to why the I5 doesn't seem to be taking off in Europe in anything like the way it does in the US. I can see that language issues may play a role. Is siri for example comparably good in french, german, spanish and italian as it is in the US? Are there limitations in the availability of native language translations of the drawcard Apps, or what is behind the less than impressive market share ?
In Germany at least, LTE is not a significant drawcard because the coverage is so patchy that it is not available in most locations. It will probably be well into 2014 before that changes much.
So maybe its just a simple fact that the "premium" qualities don't seem to justify the price for most potential buyers. I don't know. It would seem plausible. But whatever the reason, it doesn't seem that the I5 is making waves in europe at all. .... just barely managing to keep the market share stable in some countries, but declining in most, while android seems to be gaining market share at an accelerating pace. That's what the numbers in the original post seem to say.
Anyone have any good explanations/theories ??
Just for fun I did a quick check of the plans in Germany.
T-mobile with a subsidized cost of €1 for the 16 G I5 and the monthly rate of €99 works out at €107/month or €2568 for the contracted 24 months.
An equivalent allnet-flatrate sells for €39.99 / month or 959.76 over the 24 months, which is just over €1608 saving. So adding the cost of the 64 Gb I5 at €899 leaves you with something like €709 change in your pocket. You must be insane to think that the T-mobile subsidized packet is a good deal.
I suspect its probably similar in all subsidized markets.
There's no free lunch. The providers are not going to subsidize Apple's profits, so the user pays in every case.
Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest.
This hostility to market share is ...... strange.
Originally Posted by asdasd
Why would a consumer care about profits. Market share guarantees developer interest.
And yet with "half" the marketshare, iOS is the undisputed winner for developers.
Why would a customer care if a company's product is successful? Why would a customer care if the product they invested in will be supported in the future? Really?!
You've almost answered your own question. Siri is crap outside the US ( even in English speaking countries). But Siri is probably not the issue.
In the US Apple gets amazing subsidies and the US does not have a pre paid market ( a market which is not just confined to poor markets. I was pre paid in the UK prior to the iPhone) So all things being equal the iPhone wins. Big price differences - Android wins.
Yeah. That's my point. The higher the market share the more likely all this is to happen particularly on a platform, and iOS is a platform.
What I don't get is apple fans who are hostile to increase in market share - via cheaper devices - why argue against that?
For now. You are not really arguing the point. Do you think that us iOS is at 1% devs will be around? If not then market share matters.
What's odd - to me - is the hostility to market share increases by sone iOS owners, providing profits are maintained ( and why wouldn't they be?) I suppose they feel less special.
Originally Posted by asdasd
For now.
For the last four years, yeah, as Android was born and blossomed into the Sumatran rotting corpse flower it is today. And yet iOS only gets more developers.
Your point is flawed. Higher marketshare doesn't mean that a product will be better. If a company is continuing to lose money to obtain that market share then they will continue to cut even more corners to try to reduce their costs to obtain it. There is a reason why Apple is seen as the only PC manufacture who innovates. Dell, HP, Acer they, in fact, do innovate, but they innovate new ways to cut corners as they race to the bottom and in the process they have soiled their brands so much that Apple dominates all profitable portion of the PC market to such an extent that they can't compete. So, yes, so show me a company that knows how to create a profit on a product that people love and I'll show a company that knows how to add value to their products. There is a reason Apple, of all the CE companies, is able to create products that hold their value.