You just used what is known as a straw man argument. You can't beat my argument, so you create some stupid argument and pretend that I made it.
No, you didn't clarify your statement, I made a rebuttal and gave it conditions based on the interpretation you took, your reply to my rebuttal collapsed the uncertainty into a single interpretation, and I finished by reconfirming that as such.
No one ever said that size is the ONLY factor in price. What I said was that:
So what is it that make the Mini more expensive to manufacture as you are claiming?
And I never claimed the iPad Mini was more expensive to manufacture.
Thing about strawmen is that if you get a big enough pile, it only takes a single match. Sort of an acidic way to live, or at least hold conversations. That's not the word I want, but tanj if I can remember it or anything else ever…
I have my original iPad and with the last iOS 5 release purs quite well. I've got nearly 1000 books, tons of apps I use and have no interest in losing a solid product to a piece of highly polished aluminum that the wind can wisk away while sitting on a table outside.
The weight right now is absurdly light.
Note:
iPads aren't replacing computers. They are augmenting the portable lifestyle of those who mainly used laptops for web browsing and social networking
iMacs and Mac minis will continue to expand in sales
Mac Pro will be a big hit in 2013
Apple will never use Intel Atom processors (when your cash cows have multiple vendors for ARM CPU SoC designs you have leverage)
Mac Mini is selling like hot cakes as I see a lot of Mom's buying them for their young children. Those kids get older and bigger. They will choose an iPad over the mini when they want more power to play their portable video games
I could go on, and show how the iPad Mini isn't stealing sales from any of Apple's markets, but people have some bizarre fetish with the idea it does cannibalize and thus allow stock manipulators to buy up and down.
Apple is approaching 10% of the combined Laptop/Desktop market. There is plenty of room to grow.
The average consumer dumps an Apple Laptop/Desktop every 18 months, even though the product runs well for 5 years.
The world has over 7 billion consumers.
China and India have yet to be truly tapped, just like South America.
iPads are driving more sales of iMacs and Macbooks than people realize. I go to Real Estate offices and see iMacs and Macbooks for agents who include an iPhone and an iPad on their desks. They are demoing videos on their iPads to perspective clients, checking mail and IMs via their phones and back at their desk they are writing up their commission reports either on their iMac or Macbooks while using services like iCloud, Dropbox, EndNote and a host of of Web based Real Estate services to share PDF documents with PDF Forms.
Best of all, these businesses can barely use them, if at all to any effective level. I have no problem charging $100+ an hour to set up Imap based mail accounts for them. They are technically illiterate and that continues to show no matter the generation. Geeks of all generations should not fear that the vast majority of consumers are technically illiterate. Job security.
The iPad 4 was really just a placeholder to introduce the lightning connector.
They should be able to very easily reduce weight and bulk by moving to a single backlight and making the bezel more like the iPad mini. I absolutely love my iPad 3 but it could be so much lighter.
They are winning the tablet space but will need to update more frequently if they are going to stop other from nipping at their heels.
No, you didn't clarify your statement, I made a rebuttal and gave it conditions based on the interpretation you took, your reply to my rebuttal collapsed the uncertainty into a single interpretation, and I finished by reconfirming that as such.
And I never claimed the iPad Mini was more expensive to manufacture.
Thing about strawmen is that if you get a big enough pile, it only takes a single match. Sort of an acidic way to live, or at least hold conversations. That's not the word I want, but tanj if I can remember it or anything else ever…
Really? Maybe you'd better go back and read your post #95.
I had stated the following - and you highlighted it to show that it was the part you were responding to:
"the fact that it is smaller* is what allows Apple to sell it for less"
Your response was:
Do we know this*? Doesn't sound right to me, particularly since we've seen a viable alternative both with the iPhone and the iPad itself.
Size isn't the only* factor in price, and quite often we see that smaller size increases, rather than decreases, price.
That sure sounds like you're saying that the iPad Mini would be more expensive to manufacture than the iPad 4 (specifically, you said that it doesn't sound right that it would be less expensive to manufacture). So either you're wrong (again) or your communication skills are sorely lacking.
That sure sounds like you're saying that the iPad Mini would be more expensive to manufacture than the iPad 4 (specifically, you said that it doesn't sound right that it would be less expensive to manufacture). So either you're wrong (again) or your communication skills are sorely lacking.
If was made with the same resolution, performance and battery life as the iPad (4) then it's highly likely it would be more expensive to produce.
That sure sounds like you're saying that the iPad Mini would be more expensive to manufacture than the iPad 4…
But I didn't say that, did I? No.
I said that smaller things are generally more expensive to produce than their larger counterparts. I said nothing about the iPad mini. In fact, I asked about it specifically, which you've also quoted (but failed to recognize). That may be a written failing on my part, and for that I apologize.
Indeed, as Solipsism has pointed out, it seems that even under your interpretation of what I've written, I'm correct, since the iPad mini uses cheaper parts and is not, in fact, a "smaller iPad 4", but rather a smaller iPad 2. I would imagine that it's prohibitively expensive to make a smaller iPad 4. Ah, and there's the word 'price' in another form.
Two years out to kick the price down. Seems like standard behavior for smaller devices.
I believe in anew iPad in March, then hope for a iPad mini in June/July iPhone in September/October but if this happened it would be off, but look at it this way.
iPad 5g comes out, with A7 thinner and other goodies iPad mini 2g comes out A6 and other goodies iPhone 7g comes out A7 and other goodies Then if a difference in iPods comes out with iPhone. This is a as the screen shrinks scheme easily fitting in (if needed) a iPad L (12 inch screen) in January. iPad (10 inch) March. iPad mini (8 inch) June. iPhablet (retarded but 5-6 inch) July or August. iPhone (4 inch) in September. iPhone mini ( for complainers 2.5-3.5 inch) October. I hope many of these devices never come out yet in 10 years this might be it. Currently the releases would give plenty of time between each device.
iphablet I don't see them doing ever- I would think they have the phone whatever ideal size they see fit, and the majority of the population likes. The mini can fill the gap.
Outside of that, I think that release schedule would be perfect. I don't think they'll have the A7 by march- not even close- but a redesigned A6 would be enough for me to get one and replace my seldom used 2.
As for people like solip who are saying the mini won't have retina in 2013 (due to graphics, consumption, and size restraints)- while I agree that technically, it would be a feat- if anyone can do it, it's apple. The thing about every iteration of iDevices- with the exception of the iPad 4- has had some type of "gimmick" to help sell (I use that word lightly- most or all are extremely functional) them outside of just a spec bump.
iPhone 3G- 3G
iPhone 3GS- Video (and necessary speed at the time)
iPhone 4- Retina & FaceTime
iPhone 4S- Siri
iPhone 5- Screen (but really everything- the 5 is amazing)
iPad 2- Cameras
iPad 3- Retina
iPad 4- specs only
My point is- what does the Mini do? Get an A6 and that's it? Maybe a better camera? What is the selling point to get the new model- or that distinguishes it? iOS comes out with the iPhone- so it's not that. It almost has to be Retina, doesn't it?
I said that smaller things are generally more expensive to produce than their larger counterparts. I said nothing about the iPad mini. In fact, I asked about it specifically, which you've also quoted (but failed to recognize). That may be a written failing on my part, and for that I apologize.
Indeed, as Solipsism has pointed out, it seems that even under your interpretation of what I've written, I'm correct, since the iPad mini uses cheaper parts and is not, in fact, a "smaller iPad 4", but rather a smaller iPad 2. I would imagine that it's prohibitively expensive to make a smaller iPad 4. Ah, and there's the word 'price' in another form.
Two years out to kick the price down. Seems like standard behavior for smaller devices.
I showed exactly what you said above. Readers can judge for themselves.
Your incessant pronouncements and then denial that you ever said them is getting tiresome.
As for people like solip who are saying the mini won't have retina in 2013 (due to graphics, consumption, and size restraints)- while I agree that technically, it would be a feat- if anyone can do it, it's apple.
The 'Apple can do anything' mantra doesn't hold water. Apple was the one that brought the Retina iPad to use in 2012 and look what they had to do to bring it. It's much thicker and heavier. Now a device with a much smaller footprint but the same resolution means that using the same tech will need to be even thicker but will be slightly lighter than the current iPad. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't. I think weight is a key component to how Apple views the iPad mini. Note that all this so far has ignored price which require a more expensive display if you want to put a 2058x1536 panel in about half the size. So how is Apple is going to achieve this miracle of keeping the product lightweight and inexpensive? I hope you are right and i am wrong but so far not a single person has given a single detailed rebuttal as to how Apple could do it except to say "if anyone can do it, it's Apple."
My point is- what does the Mini do? Get an A6 and that's it? Maybe a better camera? What is the selling point to get the new model- or that distinguishes it? iOS comes out with the iPhone- so it's not that. It almost has to be Retina, doesn't it?
And? There were 2 generations of the iPad before it was Retina and 3 years of the iPhone and Touch before they were Retina but for their cheapest tablet with the most expensive and complex display you expect to offer it for the 2nd gen simply because you don't like it not being Retina and can't think of additional upgrades? That's not a valid argument!
And it can't get an A6 if you want it to be Retina. It has to be at least an A6X, but that likely won't do because the A6X is shown to use too require too much power which is why I've been saying that it needs to be Rogue 6, which doesn't look to be available until the 2nd half of 2013. Perfect timing? Not if you note if you notice that the iPad mini is using the A5 right now (i.e.: a year behind) and that the iPod Touch is too and has yet to jump ahead 2 years just because.
Or you could just read what I've written and ask for clarification where a misunderstanding might have taken place. But that doesn't fit the "I'm always right" bill that you yourself seem to have taken, I suppose.
At no point did I say the things you've claimed, stet.
Or you could just read what I've written and ask for clarification where a misunderstanding might have taken place. But that doesn't fit the "I'm always right" bill that you yourself seem to have taken, I suppose.
At no point did I say the things you've claimed, stet.
I have to agree with jragosta. Everything you have written about the mini for the last year has turned out to be 100% wrong. There is no need for clarification of your last 5000 posts on the subject. Everyone knows your opinion on the matter and also the reality of the mini's success, and it is not just about the price as can be demonstrated by the scores of Apple experts on this forum who bought both the mini and full size iPads and have nothing but praises for the mini, myself included.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by frxntier
They need to do something quick. Stock prices are plummeting.
Stock price is settling down to extremely attractive buy positions for 2013.
Originally Posted by jragosta
You just used what is known as a straw man argument. You can't beat my argument, so you create some stupid argument and pretend that I made it.
No, you didn't clarify your statement, I made a rebuttal and gave it conditions based on the interpretation you took, your reply to my rebuttal collapsed the uncertainty into a single interpretation, and I finished by reconfirming that as such.
No one ever said that size is the ONLY factor in price. What I said was that:
So what is it that make the Mini more expensive to manufacture as you are claiming?
And I never claimed the iPad Mini was more expensive to manufacture.
Thing about strawmen is that if you get a big enough pile, it only takes a single match. Sort of an acidic way to live, or at least hold conversations. That's not the word I want, but tanj if I can remember it or anything else ever…
I have my original iPad and with the last iOS 5 release purs quite well. I've got nearly 1000 books, tons of apps I use and have no interest in losing a solid product to a piece of highly polished aluminum that the wind can wisk away while sitting on a table outside.
The weight right now is absurdly light.
Note:
iPads aren't replacing computers. They are augmenting the portable lifestyle of those who mainly used laptops for web browsing and social networking
iMacs and Mac minis will continue to expand in sales
Mac Pro will be a big hit in 2013
Apple will never use Intel Atom processors (when your cash cows have multiple vendors for ARM CPU SoC designs you have leverage)
Mac Mini is selling like hot cakes as I see a lot of Mom's buying them for their young children. Those kids get older and bigger. They will choose an iPad over the mini when they want more power to play their portable video games
I could go on, and show how the iPad Mini isn't stealing sales from any of Apple's markets, but people have some bizarre fetish with the idea it does cannibalize and thus allow stock manipulators to buy up and down.
Apple is approaching 10% of the combined Laptop/Desktop market. There is plenty of room to grow.
The average consumer dumps an Apple Laptop/Desktop every 18 months, even though the product runs well for 5 years.
The world has over 7 billion consumers.
China and India have yet to be truly tapped, just like South America.
iPads are driving more sales of iMacs and Macbooks than people realize. I go to Real Estate offices and see iMacs and Macbooks for agents who include an iPhone and an iPad on their desks. They are demoing videos on their iPads to perspective clients, checking mail and IMs via their phones and back at their desk they are writing up their commission reports either on their iMac or Macbooks while using services like iCloud, Dropbox, EndNote and a host of of Web based Real Estate services to share PDF documents with PDF Forms.
Best of all, these businesses can barely use them, if at all to any effective level. I have no problem charging $100+ an hour to set up Imap based mail accounts for them. They are technically illiterate and that continues to show no matter the generation. Geeks of all generations should not fear that the vast majority of consumers are technically illiterate. Job security.
They should be able to very easily reduce weight and bulk by moving to a single backlight and making the bezel more like the iPad mini. I absolutely love my iPad 3 but it could be so much lighter.
They are winning the tablet space but will need to update more frequently if they are going to stop other from nipping at their heels.
Really? Maybe you'd better go back and read your post #95.
I had stated the following - and you highlighted it to show that it was the part you were responding to:
"the fact that it is smaller* is what allows Apple to sell it for less"
Your response was:
That sure sounds like you're saying that the iPad Mini would be more expensive to manufacture than the iPad 4 (specifically, you said that it doesn't sound right that it would be less expensive to manufacture). So either you're wrong (again) or your communication skills are sorely lacking.
If was made with the same resolution, performance and battery life as the iPad (4) then it's highly likely it would be more expensive to produce.
Originally Posted by jragosta
That sure sounds like you're saying that the iPad Mini would be more expensive to manufacture than the iPad 4…
But I didn't say that, did I? No.
I said that smaller things are generally more expensive to produce than their larger counterparts. I said nothing about the iPad mini. In fact, I asked about it specifically, which you've also quoted (but failed to recognize). That may be a written failing on my part, and for that I apologize.
Indeed, as Solipsism has pointed out, it seems that even under your interpretation of what I've written, I'm correct, since the iPad mini uses cheaper parts and is not, in fact, a "smaller iPad 4", but rather a smaller iPad 2. I would imagine that it's prohibitively expensive to make a smaller iPad 4. Ah, and there's the word 'price' in another form.
Two years out to kick the price down. Seems like standard behavior for smaller devices.
iPad 5g comes out, with A7 thinner and other goodies
iPad mini 2g comes out A6 and other goodies
iPhone 7g comes out A7 and other goodies
Then if a difference in iPods comes out with iPhone.
This is a as the screen shrinks scheme easily fitting in (if needed) a iPad L (12 inch screen) in January. iPad (10 inch) March. iPad mini (8 inch) June. iPhablet (retarded but 5-6 inch) July or August. iPhone (4 inch) in September. iPhone mini ( for complainers 2.5-3.5 inch) October.
I hope many of these devices never come out yet in 10 years this might be it.
Currently the releases would give plenty of time between each device.
Outside of that, I think that release schedule would be perfect. I don't think they'll have the A7 by march- not even close- but a redesigned A6 would be enough for me to get one and replace my seldom used 2.
As for people like solip who are saying the mini won't have retina in 2013 (due to graphics, consumption, and size restraints)- while I agree that technically, it would be a feat- if anyone can do it, it's apple. The thing about every iteration of iDevices- with the exception of the iPad 4- has had some type of "gimmick" to help sell (I use that word lightly- most or all are extremely functional) them outside of just a spec bump.
iPhone 3G- 3G
iPhone 3GS- Video (and necessary speed at the time)
iPhone 4- Retina & FaceTime
iPhone 4S- Siri
iPhone 5- Screen (but really everything- the 5 is amazing)
iPad 2- Cameras
iPad 3- Retina
iPad 4- specs only
My point is- what does the Mini do? Get an A6 and that's it? Maybe a better camera? What is the selling point to get the new model- or that distinguishes it? iOS comes out with the iPhone- so it's not that. It almost has to be Retina, doesn't it?
I showed exactly what you said above. Readers can judge for themselves.
Your incessant pronouncements and then denial that you ever said them is getting tiresome.
The 'Apple can do anything' mantra doesn't hold water. Apple was the one that brought the Retina iPad to use in 2012 and look what they had to do to bring it. It's much thicker and heavier. Now a device with a much smaller footprint but the same resolution means that using the same tech will need to be even thicker but will be slightly lighter than the current iPad. Do you think that's reasonable? I don't. I think weight is a key component to how Apple views the iPad mini. Note that all this so far has ignored price which require a more expensive display if you want to put a 2058x1536 panel in about half the size. So how is Apple is going to achieve this miracle of keeping the product lightweight and inexpensive? I hope you are right and i am wrong but so far not a single person has given a single detailed rebuttal as to how Apple could do it except to say "if anyone can do it, it's Apple."
And? There were 2 generations of the iPad before it was Retina and 3 years of the iPhone and Touch before they were Retina but for their cheapest tablet with the most expensive and complex display you expect to offer it for the 2nd gen simply because you don't like it not being Retina and can't think of additional upgrades? That's not a valid argument!
And it can't get an A6 if you want it to be Retina. It has to be at least an A6X, but that likely won't do because the A6X is shown to use too require too much power which is why I've been saying that it needs to be Rogue 6, which doesn't look to be available until the 2nd half of 2013. Perfect timing? Not if you note if you notice that the iPad mini is using the A5 right now (i.e.: a year behind) and that the iPod Touch is too and has yet to jump ahead 2 years just because.
Originally Posted by jragosta
I showed exactly what you said above. Readers can judge for themselves.
The speech of a man who has lost his battle. My stars, what's honestly difficult to understand about what I wrote? I'll rewrite it.
Of course you'll rewrite it. That's what you do.
You make some pronouncement that we're supposed to accept like holy writ - such as "there's no need for an iPad Min'.
Then, as your pronouncement is obviously wrong, you spin and change your story over and over and over again.
Eventually, you deny making the original pronouncement and accuse everyone who brings it up of being liars.
You're very good at that.
Originally Posted by jragosta
Of course you'll rewrite it. That's what you do.
Or you could just read what I've written and ask for clarification where a misunderstanding might have taken place. But that doesn't fit the "I'm always right" bill that you yourself seem to have taken, I suppose.
At no point did I say the things you've claimed, stet.
I have to agree with jragosta. Everything you have written about the mini for the last year has turned out to be 100% wrong. There is no need for clarification of your last 5000 posts on the subject. Everyone knows your opinion on the matter and also the reality of the mini's success, and it is not just about the price as can be demonstrated by the scores of Apple experts on this forum who bought both the mini and full size iPads and have nothing but praises for the mini, myself included.