2014 Mac mini Wishlist

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  • Reply 101 of 1528
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Wow that was a fast response. : P

    Yeah I honestly don't want it to get any thinner until they have onboard flash storage. I don't see that happening until Broadwell or worse possibly into Skylake or even Skymont.
  • Reply 102 of 1528


    Originally Posted by Winter View Post

    Yeah I honestly don't want it to get any thinner until they have onboard flash storage. I don't see that happening until Broadwell or worse possibly into Skylake or even Skymont.


     


    Really? Fusion Drive sort of makes me think that will be sooner rather than later. 




    "Is that your final usual pessimism or an unfiltered optimistic outlook?"


     


    …I'm not sure. You're probably right about the timeframe, actually. Broadwell is, what, slated for 2014 right now? A lot can happen in two years.

  • Reply 103 of 1528
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Yes, Broadwell used to be known as Rockwell. It will be the successor to Haswell and start the 14nm process.
  • Reply 104 of 1528


    Originally Posted by Winter View Post

    Yes, Broadwell used to be known as Rockwell. It will be the successor to Haswell…


     


    Ugh, that's confusing. Just call them versions 10 and 11 (and market them as versions 10.5 and 13). image

  • Reply 105 of 1528
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    winter wrote: »
    No way! 100% disagree. Does it need more for the cost? Yes absolutely no question. If I can get 2-3 years out of the 2011 Mac mini that I have now, I feel that's good.
    See here is the problem, if I buy a Mini (I'm tempted to do so) it can't be justified if it only remains viable for 2-3 years. In fact to put it bluntly the short shelf life of the Mini counter indicates it for many uses.
    I don't want the Mini to be made any thinner but perhaps you give the $599 model (which hopefully it stays at or decreases) a dual-core i7 and then give the others quad-core i7s as before. Integrated graphics are becoming better on Intel's part though it is a shame they are not including a discrete GPU in at least one of them as an option.
    The lack of a discrete GPU is a significant factor in that life span issue described above. Intel GPUs simply don't cut the mustard as software becomes more and more GPU dependent. The poor performance in any thing other than 2D is one issue but Intels inability to fix HDMI output really insults the buying public. Now ideally Intel can fix the driver issues, that would be good. But then you end up with performance issues with things like 3D and OpenCL. The reliance on Intel hardware, the GPU, makes for a very disposable short term computer which is extremely frustrating.

    I totally disagree that the mini is a waste because Apple's computers are still too expensive for the average consumer. The fact that you can buy a cheap HDTV from Best Buy or Wal Mart to use as a monitor is grand.
    You're getting the specs of the $1,200 MBP in the $600 Mini. It makes great business sense.
    I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Mini has the specs of a MBP, frankly it isn't even close performance wise

    Here is my take. The Mini will need a discrete GPU in one or more models until Intel can demonstrate that it has resolved its performance, driver and hardware support issues. With Ivy Bridge they may resolve the driver issues, but they can't fix the hardware issues. The hardware issues being crap 3D and OpenCL support. The pathetic nature of the GPU hardware/software makes justifying the Mini as a long term purchase difficult. Personally I'm waiting for a sign that the HDMI issues are resolved so that the Mini becomes passable for at least one use I have in mind. Otherwise the machine is useless or at the very least a poor investment.
  • Reply 106 of 1528
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    I know it seems extraneous though right now my only concern (and it is a minor one) is to be able to play Gauntlet Dark Legacy on MAME and then maybe a few other games if they happen to appear interesting. There might be some other things I do with my mini besides just use it to browse the internet, listen to music, etc. that regular peon consumers do. I want to take the next step though I need a solid interest and I haven't found it yet.

    The 2012 offerings while decent (if you're upgrading from 2010 or earlier say) are not enough to cause me to pony up the cash.

    Getting back to processors, I would guess with Broadwell the minimum offering on RAM MHz speed would be 1866 if Haswell is remaining at 1600 like Ivy Bridge is. By then, we should have lower voltage/more power efficient RAM.
  • Reply 107 of 1528
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    At this point Apple is so disinterested in the Mini that they could end up using the same box for years. As for onboard flash or other solid state solution they could do that at any time. They only limitation is board space so the most likely interim solution is a daughter card like in the notebooks.

    As to thinner, in the dark deep recesses of my mind I can see Apple producing the Mini in the USA after a long DFM engineering effort. DFM being Design For Manufacturing. The out come of that would be a highly automated manufacturing line that eliminates as many employees as possible. Since the current Minis, in fact just about all of them suck as far as DFM goes, the new Mini could look very different from today's models.

    So maybe the 2013 Mini will look different, not because of Haswell, Broadwell, SkyLake or whatever, but because it will be engineered to be produced on highly automated production lines here in the US. In that regard expect to see a lot of robotics in the production line and components optimized for mechanical handling. Frankly I don't see how Apple could even begin to be successful with a US made Mini without a complete overhaul of the machine.
    winter wrote: »
    Wow that was a fast response. : P
    Yeah I honestly don't want it to get any thinner until they have onboard flash storage. I don't see that happening until Broadwell or worse possibly into Skylake or even Skymont.
  • Reply 107 of 1528
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Duplicate!
  • Reply 109 of 1528
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    As long as they are not disinterested enough that they cancel the machine, I am happy.
  • Reply 110 of 1528
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    winter wrote: »
    I know it seems extraneous though right now my only concern (and it is a minor one) is to be able to play Gauntlet Dark Legacy on MAME and then maybe a few other games if they happen to appear interesting.
    Sadly if you are a gamer the Mini right now is a very poor choice. You might get away with it for certain games, but what if your interest change to a game that is even mildly 3D? I'm willing to bet that even you yourself can't guess what your interest will be a year or two down the line, thus a purchase of today's Mini has a high degree of likely hood of being useless for you with any random software relates that interests you. Now it is reasonable to say that the discrete GPU that did come in the Minis wasn't all that great, but the point here is that it was well ahead of what Intel could offer up. Ideally that GPU would have been improved in the 2012 MIni to make it even more desirable.
    There might be some other things I do with my mini besides just use it to browse the internet, listen to music, etc. that regular peon consumers do. I want to take the next step though I need a solid interest and I haven't found it yet.
    The best advice offered in these forums is to buy a machine when you need it not because some marketing slut has convinced you to fork over the cash. If your current machine is taking care of your workload then don't sweat it.

    Apple has offered up in the Mini one of those perplexing offers that come our way from Apple every so often. That is hardware that offers a lot of new and valuable features that at the same time deletes rather significant features. Frankly it is almost like this is an interim solution of some sort to hold Apple over until it has something new and improved to deliver.
    The 2012 offerings while decent (if you're upgrading from 2010 or earlier say) are not enough to cause me to pony up the cash.
    If you exclude the lack of a GPU option I'd have to say that the new Minis are a bit more than decent. Just the inclusion of USB 3 makes them a far more interesting machine and a far better investment. The current state of the Intel drivers makes them a no buy though and no I don't trust Intel to correct the issue. Until I see verified proof that they have corrected the HDMI issue and possibly have a viable OpenCL solution I have to wait.
    Getting back to processors, I would guess with Broadwell the minimum offering on RAM MHz speed would be 1866 if Haswell is remaining at 1600 like Ivy Bridge is. By then, we should have lower voltage/more power efficient RAM.

    Intel and AMD are in the same bait with respect to RAM, the faster they can get RAM to operate the faster and more robust the GPU performance. To get around this issue there are rumors that the GPU in one of the coming Haswell processors will have a separate path to RAM in the CPU module itself. That is GPU RAM will either be stacked on top of or beside the CPU SoC. This is supposedly only in a top end Haswell and could well be a rumor built on baloney. It does however reflect the reality that right now the faster your RAM the better the GPU performance on these APUs. The industry has a number of initiatives in place to address the RAM speed issue so it is hard to tell what a Broadwell based Minis RAM array will look like.
  • Reply 111 of 1528
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    winter wrote: »
    As long as they are not disinterested enough that they cancel the machine, I am happy.

    Right now I have this belief that if the rumor of a US made Mini is true, it will be a somewhat radically different machine. Automated assembly will play a part in the machines design. Thus the Mini might no be so much canceled as replaced with a new machine design.

    That could be a good thing or a bad thing depending upon what we end up with. Think about the current Mini for a bit, it is a bit ugly if you look at it from the assembly point of view. It will be real interesting to see what we get if the rumors turn out to be true.
  • Reply 112 of 1528
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    This is off topic but Dark Legacy is a fairly old game. The problem is that the PS2 version is not quite like the arcade version and there is a pit inside me that wants to play it. It is a decent game though and even the Gamecube and original Xbox versions aren't terrible. I completed it's predecessor known as Gauntlet Legends and the versions released on PS1, N64, and Dreamcast (with Dreamcast being the best of the three) are vastly inferior to the arcade.

    <--- Here it is.

    Now keep in mind, I can rent a machine for a week for half the cost of a base model Mini. Though I don't want to rent or buy a big arcade machine. I would rather keep it on my computer which is a fraction of its size.

    As for games, I am not much of a gamer though playing a few games would be cool. The problem is that there is lot a lot of games that capture the same magic as Diablo and Diablo II did for me back 12 years ago. Diablo III just doesn't cut it. It's not dark enough.

    I'm not sure if I have to bump up to an iMac to get it to full speed as you see in the video. If I do, it will have to wait as I have a lot of other stuff to pay for ahead of time.

    The base model iMac now might cut it for me but I have no way to test it short of buying one which I don't have the funds for.

    I (like a doofus) went into my local Best Buy thinking I could test it on their machines briefly. I couldn't because the folder with everything in it has to be in the Applications section and I didn't know the user name and password and wasn't allowed to do it anyway.
  • Reply 113 of 1528
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    winter wrote: »
    Too damn quick? I say the opposite.
    Also I would love the Mini staying in its current form factor, I think it is perfect.
    Nothing is perfect. Believing so is how many companies get stuck in a rut.

    Come to think of it, one of Apples recent successes the AIR, was considered by many to be perfect in each revision that came out. I rather saw major improvements with each revision and maybe in a revision or two more I might even consider an AIR as something I would buy. Nothing is beyond improvement even the Mini.
  • Reply 114 of 1528
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    I just mean with the size. I would like to see onboard flash and the return of discrete graphics to play games at medium resolution. I just am not necessarily on the whole thin and light bandwagon. That is not an improvement in my view. Work first on the inside THEN work on the outside.
  • Reply 115 of 1528
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    You see this is the thing I actually think that the Mini needs to get bigger. Big enough so that at least one model can consistently come with a GPU with reasonable amounts of VRam.

    As a side note I went down to Staples to get some three ring binders today. I haven't been there in months but noticed one thing, desktop PC are practically non existent in the store. The three models they had sat UNDER a counter. Almost as an after thought. Lots of crappy laptops though. No granted Staples isn't exactly a store for techno geeks but it highlights just how hard it is to move desktop PCs these days. People that think that the Mini and Mac Pro are on firm ground are kidding themselves. If Apple can't pull a rabbit out of the hat and really excite people about the Mini and Mac Pro we won't have a desktop lineup outside of the iMac.

    The writing is on the wall. Apple really needs to find a way to demonstrate the value of desktops in an iOS economy. By the way it isn't just staples that is an issue, independent PC merchants aren't doing to well around here either. The 2013 offering of the Mini and Mac Pro may very well seal the fate of these machines if they can't spur sales.
    winter wrote: »
    I just mean with the size. I would like to see onboard flash and the return of discrete graphics to play games at medium resolution. I just am not necessarily on the whole thin and light bandwagon. That is not an improvement in my view. Work first on the inside THEN work on the outside.
  • Reply 116 of 1528
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Commercials. I'm telling you right now that a commercial for the Mac mini would work. Call me crazy but I'd be willing to throw the dice.

    I would actually be willing to gamble $4 million or whatever it costs on a Super Bowl commercial just to generate some buzz.
  • Reply 117 of 1528
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    You see this is the thing I actually think that the Mini needs to get bigger. Big enough so that at least one model can consistently come with a GPU with reasonable amounts of VRam.

    As a side note I went down to Staples to get some three ring binders today. I haven't been there in months but noticed one thing, desktop PC are practically non existent in the store. The three models they had sat UNDER a counter. Almost as an after thought. Lots of crappy laptops though. No granted Staples isn't exactly a store for techno geeks but it highlights just how hard it is to move desktop PCs these days. People that think that the Mini and Mac Pro are on firm ground are kidding themselves. If Apple can't pull a rabbit out of the hat and really excite people about the Mini and Mac Pro we won't have a desktop lineup outside of the iMac.

    The writing is on the wall. Apple really needs to find a way to demonstrate the value of desktops in an iOS economy. By the way it isn't just staples that is an issue, independent PC merchants aren't doing to well around here either. The 2013 offering of the Mini and Mac Pro may very well seal the fate of these machines if they can't spur sales.




    I'll add my own conjecture. I'm not sure if Apple views the mini as a desktop or just a general budget machine. If it's just a budget machine, I wouldn't expect it to go away unless Apple feels the iPad can take most of that. It is slightly clunky as a budget machine in some ways, as it doesn't align well with users that want to walk out with a complete machine. Mouse, keyboard, and display must be added, which isn't a big deal. It's just you can't show it off as one box ready to set up at that price level. If a workload doesn't extensively leverage the gpu, the mid mini is capable of being a reasonably powerful machine. This does fit a smaller market where display quality is an issue. I could see it as a decent option for graphic designers as long as they don't deal with heavy motion graphics work. The mac pro has been on rocky ground for a long time, but this doesn't mean workstations in general will disappear in the near future. Dell, HP, and a number of the smaller system builders compete pretty fiercely for that market as it carries much higher margins than their cheaper products. I don't see computers in general as a huge brick and mortar item at this point. Apple is kind of an exception there.

  • Reply 118 of 1528


    Apple has this weird fetish with making things as thin and compact as they possibly can. 


     


    They eventually learned their lesson with the iPod series, ie people were buying shuffles to work out with and when they made it super tiny it was no long convenient. The nano's became a bit larger than the shuffle with just a touch screen and learned people wanted something smaller than an iPod touch but not super tiny.


     


    When will they learn the desktops don't need to be ungodly thin...probably in a matter of time. Removing the cd/dvd drive from the iMac fine, but the mac mini...leave one of them with it. The mini being about 1/2in taller isn't going to bother anyone, add in the CD/DVD. Having it as a media PC would be nice or when I burn things for my parents or a friend. 

  • Reply 119 of 1528


    Originally Posted by AandcMedia View Post

    Apple has this weird fetish with making things as thin and compact as they possibly can. 


     


    Yeah, making computers smaller than an entire room was one of our civilization's greatest blunders¡


     



    When will they learn the desktops don't need to be ungodly thin...



     


    Someone will be learning something, at least. You got that part right.






    …the mac mini…leave one of them with it.




     


    The Mac Mini has been without it for longer than the iMac. No, there's no reason to leave one.






    Having it as a media PC would be nice or when I burn things for my parents or a friend. 




     


    $25 nets you a faster drive than Apple would ever have possibly given you. And you'll even be able to burn Blu-ray.

  • Reply 120 of 1528
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    I feel the base mini should have a few more BTO options. I know Apple wants people to buy the higher priced models but that sort of defeats the purpose of a lower model.
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