For the record that's not true. Transit Wireless runs ATT/TMo at a number of stops and is expanding to more in the next year. There's free Wifi in spots too. While not MTA subway, Verizon runs LTE through the Hudson rail tunnel (Amtrak/NJ Transit) from Secaucus to Penn Station.
Actually, if you read what I wrote, for the record, it is true. But, as pointed out, it doesn't matter because for the stations they provide this data, there are already overhead signs that give the same information.
Quote:
... there is no cell service in the tunnels and most of the underground platforms. ...
At this point, it's insignificant, and limited to a tiny number of stations: 6 out of 468 (although, many of those 468 are above ground, so do have service). And, the number of stations where you can sometimes get a signal through the gratings is definitely higher than those 6. It's going to be years before the system has full coverage underground, especially in the boroughs, since all the money gets spent in Manhattan.
Actually, if you read what I wrote, for the record, it is true. But, as pointed out, it doesn't matter because for the stations they provide this data, there are already overhead signs that give the same information.
One big thing with the overheads is that if you're pulling into a station and are considering switching to an express or another train, if it's coming along soon, or staying put if nothing is, the signs don't help. I use EmBark within the train for this and even though it only relies on scheduling info I find it extremely helpful.
Even though it's true that it can vary from the reality of the arrivals, in practice I find that nearly all of the time the train does in fact arrive nearly dead-on. Maybe it's just my lines, but I find claims of the NYC subway times being wildly off schedule to be very untrue.
Practically useless except on parts of the few lines indicated (which is obviously why they're doing those first) since it won't work underground. And it's certainly not needed for the Shuttle because there is ALWAYS a shuttle in each of the two stations, ready to go (and it won't work anyway, because it's underground).
Furthermore, as they build out the "next train coming" tech, they're putting electronic signs in the stations that tell you this, just as they have on the London Underground. So there's no need to take out your device - the information is there anyway.
There are other apps for the NYC subway that have the maps, routes and delay or changed route information that are quite good. This one has the addition of real time "next train" info, but it's not very practical until there's service underground and for the reasons already mentioned.
When the MTA announced that they were going to start putting up electronic signs in the station to tell you when the next train was coming, I was opposed. It's costing something like a $1 billion to accomplish this and IMO, they would have been far better off spending that money simply adding more trains to each route. When I was a kid and lived at the next to last stop on the #1 train, during rush hour in the mornings, they used to send a train down every 60 seconds. You don't need an electronic sign or app to tell you when the next train is coming if there's always one coming.
One big thing with the overheads is that if you're pulling into a station and are considering switching to an express or another train, if it's coming along soon, or staying put if nothing is, the signs don't help. I use EmBark within the train for this and even though it only relies on scheduling info I find it extremely helpful. ...
This is why we need an app that takes into account all data and probabilities, including things like: how long is it worth waiting for the express based on your destination, do you have a seat now, what are your odds of getting into a bum car if you switch trains.
Well it might increase the crime rate because more people will be referring to the subway schedule on their phone - which would otherwise be in their pocket and not in front of the eyes of would be criminals.
Thought this was commonplace! There's loads of apps like that for the London Underground, and has been for some time.
I don't know about the London Underground, but there are a number of other apps that provide NYC Subway information, including schedules. The difference with this one is that it give arrival times based on tracking the actual positions of the trains in the tunnels, not from the schedules which are notoriously inaccurate.
Gee, world-class cities like e.g. Vienna have this exact thing for years now; and not just on a handful of lines but for the entire subway & tram & bus system; not only indicating real time arrival times, but also indicating what kind of train is coming, low floor (more easily handicap accessible) or high floor.
Check out the Quando app in the AppStore. It will even give walking directions and alternative routes for full, real-time door-to-door public transport navigation.
People in the US always think their countries and cities are cutting edge; far from it; many parts of the US look like third world countries; daily more so as infrastructure falls into ever worse disrepair thanks to Congress' inaction.
Gee, world-class cities like e.g. Vienna have this exact thing for years now; and not just on a handful of lines but for the entire subway & tram & bus system; not only indicating real time arrival times, but also indicating what kind of train is coming, low floor (more easily handicap accessible) or high floor.
Check out the Quando app in the AppStore. It will even give walking directions and alternative routes for full, real-time door-to-door public transport navigation.
People in the US always think their countries and cities are cutting edge; far from it; many parts of the US look like third world countries; daily more so as infrastructure falls into ever worse disrepair thanks to Congress' inaction.
Well, yes, but in fairness, the NYC subway is much older and fat more extensive than Vienna's:
Quote:
NYC Transit - with 468 subway stations - has only 60 fewer stations than the combined total of all other subway systems in the country.
CORRECTION: Actually it's apparently not older, with the Vienna Metro opening in 1898 and the NYC Subway beginning service in 1904, but it is much more extensive, with Vienna having only 76 stations vs 468 in NY.
There have been apps that do this (real time countdown information) for the London Underground (and, infact, the entire UK wide national railway network) and the San Francisco BART system for ages. What's taken New York so long?
It's New York: the simultaneously greatest and often most frustrating city in the world. For so many reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa
Gee, world-class cities like e.g. Vienna have this exact thing for years now; and not just on a handful of lines but for the entire subway & tram & bus system; not only indicating real time arrival times, but also indicating what kind of train is coming, low floor (more easily handicap accessible) or high floor.
Check out the Quando app in the AppStore. It will even give walking directions and alternative routes for full, real-time door-to-door public transport navigation.
People in the US always think their countries and cities are cutting edge; far from it; many parts of the US look like third world countries; daily more so as infrastructure falls into ever worse disrepair thanks to Congress' inaction.
Amsterdam had electronic arrival time signs posted outside and inside of train stations when I was there in 1997. Bus info too. Seemed like Arthur C. Clarke's definition of "magic" at the time and a big help. And just noted that a new, more advanced system covering tram, buses, metro, ferries and trains - including apps and trip planners - started in 2010.
It's worth noting, to those who compare NYC's subways to others, that it was not constructed as a whole but rather grew from several private and then city owned lines which gradually merged and changed hands until it became the far reaching, single system it is today. So it's not only the age and size but the fact that it was not originally built as a single, connected system. This doesn't affect things like the wireless technology coming in. But huge construction undertakings have been required to make the separate lines as connected as they are, and it's more complicated than just the city's stratification, as some see the difference in services in the different lines.
Gee, world-class cities like e.g. Vienna have this exact thing for years now; and not just on a handful of lines but for the entire subway & tram & bus system; not only indicating real time arrival times, but also indicating what kind of train is coming, low floor (more easily handicap accessible) or high floor.
Check out the Quando app in the AppStore. It will even give walking directions and alternative routes for full, real-time door-to-door public transport navigation.
People in the US always think their countries and cities are cutting edge; far from it; many parts of the US look like third world countries; daily more so as infrastructure falls into ever worse disrepair thanks to Congress' inaction.
Well, yes, but in fairness, the NYC subway is much older and fat more extensive than Vienna's:
Quote:
NYC Transit - with 468 subway stations - has only 60 fewer stations than the combined total of all other subway systems in the country.
CORRECTION: Actually it's apparently not older, with the Vienna Metro opening in 1898 and the NYC Subway beginning service in 1904, but it is much more extensive, with Vienna having only 76 stations vs 468 in NY.
Sure, but in NYC only six of the lines are currently part of the system, while in Vienna not just the subway, but also the tramway, S-Bahn system and the busses are included, and the tramway system alone is the 5th largest in the world with 1031 stops just for the tramway. Public transport is multi-tired in Vienna, with different systems preferred depending on speed, distance, population density etc.
Also the system in Vienna is fully operational for a few years now, not just starting up.
Anyway, my point wasn't which is better, just pointing out the myopic view that presents it as if it were a groundbreaking first.
When the MTA announced that they were going to start putting up electronic signs in the station to tell you when the next train was coming, I was opposed. It's costing something like a $1 billion to accomplish this and IMO, they would have been far better off spending that money simply adding more trains to each route. When I was a kid and lived at the next to last stop on the #1 train, during rush hour in the mornings, they used to send a train down every 60 seconds. You don't need an electronic sign or app to tell you when the next train is coming if there's always one coming.
The sensors are used also for other things, not just train info. They measure also the state of wheels, bearings, etc. to prevent trains from breaking down, etc. by better being able to predict maintenance requirements, etc.
It's worth noting, to those who compare NYC's subways to others, that it was not constructed as a whole but rather grew from several private and then city owned lines which gradually merged and changed hands until it became the far reaching, single system it is today.
This is also true of the London Underground, which incorporates the oldest underground train lines in the world, yet the real time info system has been established for some years now.
In fairness to New York though, the London Underground doesn't run 24 hours a day.
Probably one of the most sensible uses of gps and location tracking that will help not just the authorities but also the users. I wonder why it takes so long when technology is so easily attainable for government agencies to incorporate such enormously useful features.
I think the MTA should be embarrassed by the fact it took them 10 years to deploy this technology. Technology innovations in the real world happen at such a quick pace, 10 years is not only a waste of time, but also a waste of the funds the MTA always seems to be complaining about not having. This article says the next train lines expected to get updated will be finished in 2016?? Will these sensors even be relevant in 2016?
I would generally agree with the premise that MTA has unique challenges in updating their service - hours of operation - volume - inclement weather. But in this case it's clear the MTA has competency issues. Why are they applying sensor technology to the tracks? Updating a train car and the entry/exit point of each station is much less invasive than servicing thousands of miles of tracks too. A train car doesn't need to communicate with the tracks to provide meaningful data. I feel like the MTA just wants to keep relying on their archaic central control board.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
For the record that's not true. Transit Wireless runs ATT/TMo at a number of stops and is expanding to more in the next year. There's free Wifi in spots too. While not MTA subway, Verizon runs LTE through the Hudson rail tunnel (Amtrak/NJ Transit) from Secaucus to Penn Station.
Actually, if you read what I wrote, for the record, it is true. But, as pointed out, it doesn't matter because for the stations they provide this data, there are already overhead signs that give the same information.
Quote:
... there is no cell service in the tunnels and most of the underground platforms. ...
BTW, here's the status of service in the Subways:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/cell-phone-service-on-some-subway-platforms-starts-next-week/
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/cellphone-and-wireless-service-coming-to-more-subway-stations/
At this point, it's insignificant, and limited to a tiny number of stations: 6 out of 468 (although, many of those 468 are above ground, so do have service). And, the number of stations where you can sometimes get a signal through the gratings is definitely higher than those 6. It's going to be years before the system has full coverage underground, especially in the boroughs, since all the money gets spent in Manhattan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Actually, if you read what I wrote, for the record, it is true. But, as pointed out, it doesn't matter because for the stations they provide this data, there are already overhead signs that give the same information.
One big thing with the overheads is that if you're pulling into a station and are considering switching to an express or another train, if it's coming along soon, or staying put if nothing is, the signs don't help. I use EmBark within the train for this and even though it only relies on scheduling info I find it extremely helpful.
Even though it's true that it can vary from the reality of the arrivals, in practice I find that nearly all of the time the train does in fact arrive nearly dead-on. Maybe it's just my lines, but I find claims of the NYC subway times being wildly off schedule to be very untrue.
The buses, OTOH... : )
Furthermore, as they build out the "next train coming" tech, they're putting electronic signs in the stations that tell you this, just as they have on the London Underground. So there's no need to take out your device - the information is there anyway.
There are other apps for the NYC subway that have the maps, routes and delay or changed route information that are quite good. This one has the addition of real time "next train" info, but it's not very practical until there's service underground and for the reasons already mentioned.
When the MTA announced that they were going to start putting up electronic signs in the station to tell you when the next train was coming, I was opposed. It's costing something like a $1 billion to accomplish this and IMO, they would have been far better off spending that money simply adding more trains to each route. When I was a kid and lived at the next to last stop on the #1 train, during rush hour in the mornings, they used to send a train down every 60 seconds. You don't need an electronic sign or app to tell you when the next train is coming if there's always one coming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd
One big thing with the overheads is that if you're pulling into a station and are considering switching to an express or another train, if it's coming along soon, or staying put if nothing is, the signs don't help. I use EmBark within the train for this and even though it only relies on scheduling info I find it extremely helpful. ...
This is why we need an app that takes into account all data and probabilities, including things like: how long is it worth waiting for the express based on your destination, do you have a seat now, what are your odds of getting into a bum car if you switch trains.
Now, at least, the thieves who stole your iPhone will be able to catch their train.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunabku
Well it might increase the crime rate because more people will be referring to the subway schedule on their phone - which would otherwise be in their pocket and not in front of the eyes of would be criminals.
If it's that bad, move or carry a gun.
Gee, world-class cities like e.g. Vienna have this exact thing for years now; and not just on a handful of lines but for the entire subway & tram & bus system; not only indicating real time arrival times, but also indicating what kind of train is coming, low floor (more easily handicap accessible) or high floor.
Check out the Quando app in the AppStore. It will even give walking directions and alternative routes for full, real-time door-to-door public transport navigation.
People in the US always think their countries and cities are cutting edge; far from it; many parts of the US look like third world countries; daily more so as infrastructure falls into ever worse disrepair thanks to Congress' inaction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa
Gee, world-class cities like e.g. Vienna have this exact thing for years now; and not just on a handful of lines but for the entire subway & tram & bus system; not only indicating real time arrival times, but also indicating what kind of train is coming, low floor (more easily handicap accessible) or high floor.
Check out the Quando app in the AppStore. It will even give walking directions and alternative routes for full, real-time door-to-door public transport navigation.
People in the US always think their countries and cities are cutting edge; far from it; many parts of the US look like third world countries; daily more so as infrastructure falls into ever worse disrepair thanks to Congress' inaction.
Well, yes, but in fairness, the NYC subway is much older and fat more extensive than Vienna's:
Quote:
NYC Transit - with 468 subway stations - has only 60 fewer stations than the combined total of all other subway systems in the country.
-- http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ffsubway.htm
CORRECTION: Actually it's apparently not older, with the Vienna Metro opening in 1898 and the NYC Subway beginning service in 1904, but it is much more extensive, with Vienna having only 76 stations vs 468 in NY.
-- http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/metro/english/facts.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phlip
There have been apps that do this (real time countdown information) for the London Underground (and, infact, the entire UK wide national railway network) and the San Francisco BART system for ages. What's taken New York so long?
It's New York: the simultaneously greatest and often most frustrating city in the world. For so many reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa
Gee, world-class cities like e.g. Vienna have this exact thing for years now; and not just on a handful of lines but for the entire subway & tram & bus system; not only indicating real time arrival times, but also indicating what kind of train is coming, low floor (more easily handicap accessible) or high floor.
Check out the Quando app in the AppStore. It will even give walking directions and alternative routes for full, real-time door-to-door public transport navigation.
People in the US always think their countries and cities are cutting edge; far from it; many parts of the US look like third world countries; daily more so as infrastructure falls into ever worse disrepair thanks to Congress' inaction.
Amsterdam had electronic arrival time signs posted outside and inside of train stations when I was there in 1997. Bus info too. Seemed like Arthur C. Clarke's definition of "magic" at the time and a big help. And just noted that a new, more advanced system covering tram, buses, metro, ferries and trains - including apps and trip planners - started in 2010.
It's worth noting, to those who compare NYC's subways to others, that it was not constructed as a whole but rather grew from several private and then city owned lines which gradually merged and changed hands until it became the far reaching, single system it is today. So it's not only the age and size but the fact that it was not originally built as a single, connected system. This doesn't affect things like the wireless technology coming in. But huge construction undertakings have been required to make the separate lines as connected as they are, and it's more complicated than just the city's stratification, as some see the difference in services in the different lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa
Gee, world-class cities like e.g. Vienna have this exact thing for years now; and not just on a handful of lines but for the entire subway & tram & bus system; not only indicating real time arrival times, but also indicating what kind of train is coming, low floor (more easily handicap accessible) or high floor.
Check out the Quando app in the AppStore. It will even give walking directions and alternative routes for full, real-time door-to-door public transport navigation.
People in the US always think their countries and cities are cutting edge; far from it; many parts of the US look like third world countries; daily more so as infrastructure falls into ever worse disrepair thanks to Congress' inaction.
Well, yes, but in fairness, the NYC subway is much older and fat more extensive than Vienna's:
Quote:
NYC Transit - with 468 subway stations - has only 60 fewer stations than the combined total of all other subway systems in the country.
-- http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ffsubway.htm
CORRECTION: Actually it's apparently not older, with the Vienna Metro opening in 1898 and the NYC Subway beginning service in 1904, but it is much more extensive, with Vienna having only 76 stations vs 468 in NY.
-- http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger/metro/english/facts.html
Sure, but in NYC only six of the lines are currently part of the system, while in Vienna not just the subway, but also the tramway, S-Bahn system and the busses are included, and the tramway system alone is the 5th largest in the world with 1031 stops just for the tramway. Public transport is multi-tired in Vienna, with different systems preferred depending on speed, distance, population density etc.
Also the system in Vienna is fully operational for a few years now, not just starting up.
Anyway, my point wasn't which is better, just pointing out the myopic view that presents it as if it were a groundbreaking first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
When the MTA announced that they were going to start putting up electronic signs in the station to tell you when the next train was coming, I was opposed. It's costing something like a $1 billion to accomplish this and IMO, they would have been far better off spending that money simply adding more trains to each route. When I was a kid and lived at the next to last stop on the #1 train, during rush hour in the mornings, they used to send a train down every 60 seconds. You don't need an electronic sign or app to tell you when the next train is coming if there's always one coming.
The sensors are used also for other things, not just train info. They measure also the state of wheels, bearings, etc. to prevent trains from breaking down, etc. by better being able to predict maintenance requirements, etc.
There was an interesting article on that sort of stuff in some IT magazine a while ago, although there it was on CSX ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_Transportation )
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd
It's worth noting, to those who compare NYC's subways to others, that it was not constructed as a whole but rather grew from several private and then city owned lines which gradually merged and changed hands until it became the far reaching, single system it is today.
This is also true of the London Underground, which incorporates the oldest underground train lines in the world, yet the real time info system has been established for some years now.
In fairness to New York though, the London Underground doesn't run 24 hours a day.
I would generally agree with the premise that MTA has unique challenges in updating their service - hours of operation - volume - inclement weather. But in this case it's clear the MTA has competency issues. Why are they applying sensor technology to the tracks? Updating a train car and the entry/exit point of each station is much less invasive than servicing thousands of miles of tracks too. A train car doesn't need to communicate with the tracks to provide meaningful data. I feel like the MTA just wants to keep relying on their archaic central control board.