OK. So you're obviously intent on proving that you don't have any idea how IP works.
Ideas are not protectable. One can't get a patent or a trademark on an idea. One gets a patent on a specific implementation of an idea.
Since ideas are not protectable, they can't really be stolen, anyway.
Using your reasoning wouldn't that put Android clear of "copying" iOS then? After all the two implementations are hardly the same, tho the ideas behind some of it may be.
It's really funny how all the Android shills have no concept of intellectual property. I guess that's why they think it's OK to steal IP so blatantly (look at the Tab which was so close to the iPad in appearance that even Samsung's attorneys couldn't tell the difference).
Here's the way it works:
A patent is not about an idea. Simply saying that two companies have notification devices patented tells you nothing at all about whether one stole from the other. Read the patent - in particular, the claims. The claims will spell out in detail what is being patented. If that patent is awarded, then no one else can practice what is disclosed in the claims of the patent.
Now, Apple has a history of using good ideas. They do NOT, however, have a history of slimy companies like Samsung who infringe patents left and right - and seem to think that other companies' patents are their best source of R&D.
If you have evidence that Apple has infringed a patent, turn it over to the patent owner. And, yes, Apple has lost a few cases like that. But trying to put Apple in the same category as Samsung and Google is absurd. Their entire business models seem to be built on taking others' IP.
The brick wall your argument comes up against is that the fact that Apple didn't steal anything from Xerox doesn't depend on the outcome of a court case, it's based on the fact that they compensated Xerox as part of an agreement approved by both companies. The truth of whether Microsoft stole from Apple, or Google stole from Apple, and they both have, also doesn't depend on a court case. The outcome of the case you mention doesn't show that they didn't steal, it shows they got away with it. Stealing is part of Microsoft's DNA. It's what they've always done, and they've gotten away with it pretty often. It's ironic that, at least early in its life, Google positioned itself as the anti-Microsoft, don't be evil and all that, yet, at core, both companies exhibit pretty much the same values, or lack thereof, depending on how you look at it.
Using your reasoning wouldn't that put Android clear of "copying" iOS then? After all the two implementations are hardly the same, tho the ideas behind some of it may be.
As you well know, that depends on exactly what is implemented, not necessarily the code behind it. But nice attempt at obfuscation by conflating those things. Unfortunately for you, your spin just isn't that good.
Stealing is a specific legal allegation, so the court is quite relevant. Moreover, the outcomes were similar in Apple v MS for similar reasons, because Apple licensed much of their OS to MS, just as Xerox had licensed much of their design to Apple.
If you prefer a world where instead of actual definitions we just use whatever definition any of us prefer at a given moment, knock yourself out.
There is no point in this post where you are correct.
The only thing sadder than Apple trying to patent a technology they didn't implement first are the blind religious Apple-devoted in this thread who are jumping in to defend them and try to convince everyone that Apple didn't really steal this idea...
"It's all about implementation"? Oh please... It's different now when the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?
If you feel this is incorrect you can apply to edit that page with what you feel are more appropriate citations than the court record, which the article cites as its source.
Irrelevant, because the evidence of your misunderstanding is in the quote you cite. The court looked around and saw that 'everyone' was doing 'it', and therefore Apple's Mac System OS was not an original implementation. Basically they determined that Apple's efforts to make a GUI usable did not demonstrate sufficient innovation, and that anyone else could easily have produced the same result, such as Microsoft Windows 95 which was "almost as good as the Macintosh but even better (paraphrase)".
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
Imagine if everybody patented every invention when computers first appeared...
Ok, I'm imagining it. I imagine there would have been a lot more innovation a lot faster if it weren't possible to just copy what others had done.
Apple attempts to patent anything and everything they can get their hands on. Since Day 1. It's their policy, and it's very smart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
OK. So you're obviously intent on proving that you don't have any idea how IP works.
Ideas are not protectable. One can't get a patent or a trademark on an idea. One gets a patent on a specific implementation of an idea.
Since ideas are not protectable, they can't really be stolen, anyway.
Using your reasoning wouldn't that put Android clear of "copying" iOS then? After all the two implementations are hardly the same, tho the ideas behind some of it may be.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
Mmm, AppleInsider reckons that Google filed their patent in 2009
But Apple filed a notification bar patent on September 11 2008
So, I imagine that it really is all down to the implementation.
Please read the patent -
"Portable Multifunction Device, Method, and Graphical User Interface for Managing Communications Received While in a Locked State".
This has nothing to do with notification center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Not at all.
It's really funny how all the Android shills have no concept of intellectual property. I guess that's why they think it's OK to steal IP so blatantly (look at the Tab which was so close to the iPad in appearance that even Samsung's attorneys couldn't tell the difference).
Here's the way it works:
A patent is not about an idea. Simply saying that two companies have notification devices patented tells you nothing at all about whether one stole from the other. Read the patent - in particular, the claims. The claims will spell out in detail what is being patented. If that patent is awarded, then no one else can practice what is disclosed in the claims of the patent.
Now, Apple has a history of using good ideas. They do NOT, however, have a history of slimy companies like Samsung who infringe patents left and right - and seem to think that other companies' patents are their best source of R&D.
If you have evidence that Apple has infringed a patent, turn it over to the patent owner. And, yes, Apple has lost a few cases like that. But trying to put Apple in the same category as Samsung and Google is absurd. Their entire business models seem to be built on taking others' IP.
BS
And you know it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Apple attempts to patent anything and everything they can get their hands on. Since Day 1. It's their policy, and it's very smart.
Not so smart if you are using the legal system as a base for protection.
How about innovating instead of litigating?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
Some here keep writing that Microsoft stole from Apple, but like the case you noted the court favored the defendant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_vs_microsoft#Court_case
The brick wall your argument comes up against is that the fact that Apple didn't steal anything from Xerox doesn't depend on the outcome of a court case, it's based on the fact that they compensated Xerox as part of an agreement approved by both companies. The truth of whether Microsoft stole from Apple, or Google stole from Apple, and they both have, also doesn't depend on a court case. The outcome of the case you mention doesn't show that they didn't steal, it shows they got away with it. Stealing is part of Microsoft's DNA. It's what they've always done, and they've gotten away with it pretty often. It's ironic that, at least early in its life, Google positioned itself as the anti-Microsoft, don't be evil and all that, yet, at core, both companies exhibit pretty much the same values, or lack thereof, depending on how you look at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
Not so smart if you are using the legal system as a base for protection.
How about innovating instead of litigating?
How about having a meaningful thought instead of constantly spewing angry cliches?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Using your reasoning wouldn't that put Android clear of "copying" iOS then? After all the two implementations are hardly the same, tho the ideas behind some of it may be.
As you well know, that depends on exactly what is implemented, not necessarily the code behind it. But nice attempt at obfuscation by conflating those things. Unfortunately for you, your spin just isn't that good.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
To all the people who claim Apple cribbed Android's Notification Bar: WebOS had it first, and Apple hired WebOS's notification engineer.
Can you explain how WebOS had first when Android had it in the SDK on February 2.008 and WebOS was presented on January 2.009?
By the way, regarding the notifications, WebOS didn't copy Android and Apple didn't copy Android
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwydion
Can you explain how WebOS had first when Android had it in the SDK on February 2.008 and WebOS was presented on January 2.009?
By the way, regarding the notifications, WebOS didn't copy Android and Apple didn't copy Android
Don't waste your breath. It's not worth it. Don't you know Steve Jobs thought of it 30 years ago?! Android notification bar is still superior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
Stealing is a specific legal allegation, so the court is quite relevant. Moreover, the outcomes were similar in Apple v MS for similar reasons, because Apple licensed much of their OS to MS, just as Xerox had licensed much of their design to Apple.
If you prefer a world where instead of actual definitions we just use whatever definition any of us prefer at a given moment, knock yourself out.
There is no point in this post where you are correct.
deleted
If this patent is granted an immediate investigation of fraud in the US Patent office would be necessary......
The only thing sadder than Apple trying to patent a technology they didn't implement first are the blind religious Apple-devoted in this thread who are jumping in to defend them and try to convince everyone that Apple didn't really steal this idea...
"It's all about implementation"? Oh please... It's different now when the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
From the the article I linked to:
If you feel this is incorrect you can apply to edit that page with what you feel are more appropriate citations than the court record, which the article cites as its source.
Irrelevant, because the evidence of your misunderstanding is in the quote you cite. The court looked around and saw that 'everyone' was doing 'it', and therefore Apple's Mac System OS was not an original implementation. Basically they determined that Apple's efforts to make a GUI usable did not demonstrate sufficient innovation, and that anyone else could easily have produced the same result, such as Microsoft Windows 95 which was "almost as good as the Macintosh but even better (paraphrase)".
Cheers
Google should have kept their original Android concept: http://gizmodo.com/334909/google-android-prototype-in-the-wild?tag=gadgetsandroidhardwareinthewild
Or is that a Blackberry?
deleted