Assuming the G5 is fabbed and ready to go, it would be wise for Apple to expand their matrix like they held onto the crt imacs along with the lcd's... Keep the speedbumped quicksilvers starting around 1200 and bring the g5 along starting at 2000 or so... let the pro's have what they want (an incredible g5 tower), and are willing to pay for.. let the prosumer have what it wants (an expandible g4 tower) at a lower price point.. Apple can keep their margins without having to introduce the g5 at current price points, and those who REALLY need the speed of the g5 can get it at a premium...
There is a G5 and it is ready: of this I am certain. As for the speeds, I get the impression it's from 800 to 1200 Mhz at the moment. Don't ask me about RAM or graphics 'cos I haven't heard.
I don't know what's going on in Steve's head (I wish I did). If I were him I would discount the remaining Quicksilvers to the education sector and announce the G5 at a special event this week. I don't think they have enough ready to actually ship until March, so pre-orders ala the imac would be taken.
As for the speed bumped Quicksilvers, I don't understand it either! perhaps they need to offload a ton of G4 chips. Maybe there will be two lines of towers?
Maybe the case for the G5 isn't ready? you know what a perfectionist Ives is.
for you techheads out there... why is it exactly that the 8540 can't be the infamous G5 that we're drooling over?? after seeing some info on mot's site, seems to me that it could be... specifically check out...
Good point. I don't think anyone would ever post something they claimed was "certain" or "confirmed" unless they had some damn solid evidence to back it up. Think of the consequences if their post turns out to be a hoax, their AI reputation for that handle (alias, name, email, etc.) would be ruined, their future credibility would be non-existent, and they would suffer the wrath of AI members from around the world. Who would risk that sort of ostracism just to pull a prank? Who would dare raise the heckles of the AI community? Who would dare fu[k with Mac-heads!?!?! Because we are an elite race of our own, the G3, G4, and OS X users.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh... you forgot the smilies. At least I hope you forgot them. They should be there, at the end, right?
<strong>for you techheads out there... why is it exactly that the 8540 can't be the infamous G5 that we're drooling over?? after seeing some info on mot's site, seems to me that it could be... specifically check out...
Well, for one thing the 8540 is only two-way superscalar, which is [i]less[i] than most preceeding PowerPC desktop chips. For another, its only 32-bit whereas there have been many rumours for many years that the Apple-destined G5 will be 64-bit. And lastly, the eCore is designed for low-power embedded applications and is not intended to be a desktop powerhouse.
According to Motorolas Papers you can find several things:
1. the MPC8540's performance in MIPS is 30% above the MPC7450 at same Mhz
2. the MPC8540 has got 333Mhz DDR SDRAM Memory Controller
3. the MPC8540 has got a SIMD Unit with 220 new Instructions, which could be Altivec
4. the MPC 8540 can easily be used in a 4 processor system
5. the RapidIO has a memory throughput of 16Gb/s at 500Mhz
6. the MPC8540 has got a PCI 64bit 133Mhz Controller
7. Power (est) at 6.5 W
all very interesting and useful things for beeing used in a mac....
or am i an the wrong way with above info?
if we are on 1.2 Ghz with an equal performance of the 8540 the new G5 should perform around 2778 MIPS - look at the MPC7450 at 733Mhz beeing at 1324 MIPS
According to Motorolas Papers you can find several things:
1. the MPC8540's performance in MIPS is 30% above the MPC7450 at same Mhz
2. the MPC8540 has got 333Mhz DDR SDRAM Memory Controller
3. the MPC8540 has got a SIMD Unit with 220 new Instructions, which could be Altivec
4. the MPC 8540 can easily be used in a 4 processor system
5. the RapidIO has a memory throughput of 16Gb/s at 500Mhz
6. the MPC8540 has got a PCI 64bit 133Mhz Controller
7. Power (est) at 6.5 W
all very interesting and useful things for beeing used in a mac....
or am i an the wrong way with above info?
if we are on 1.2 Ghz with an equal performance of the 8540 the new G5 should perform around 2778 MIPS - look at the MPC7450 at 733Mhz beeing at 1324 MIPS</strong><hr></blockquote>
According to Motorolas Papers you can find several things:
1. the MPC8540's performance in MIPS is 30% above the MPC7450 at same Mhz
2. the MPC8540 has got 333Mhz DDR SDRAM Memory Controller</strong><hr></blockquote>
These two are almost certainly related. The on-chip memory controller will dramatically reduce latency of main memory accesses, and if well implemented should increase bandwidth.
[quote]<strong>
3. the MPC8540 has got a SIMD Unit with 220 new Instructions, which could be Altivec
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, the SIMD unit mentioned shares the integer registers, so it is 64 bit instead of 128 bit, definitely not Altivec.
[quote]<strong>
4. the MPC 8540 can easily be used in a 4 processor system
5. the RapidIO has a memory throughput of 16Gb/s at 500Mhz
<hr></blockquote></strong>
That only amounts to 2Gbytes/s, not very much for a NUMA (distributed memory) system, as it isn't even near the memory bandwidth of 3.1Gbytes/s.
[quote]<strong>
6. the MPC8540 has got a PCI 64bit 133Mhz Controller
7. Power (est) at 6.5 W
all very interesting and useful things for beeing used in a mac....
or am i an the wrong way with above info?
if we are on 1.2 Ghz with an equal performance of the 8540 the new G5 should perform around 2778 MIPS - look at the MPC7450 at 733Mhz beeing at 1324 MIPS</strong><hr></blockquote>
The document quotes an upper frequency of 1GHz. and says that the 8540 is only 32 bits, it also lacks an FPU. If the frequency of the true G5 is much higher than the 600MHz specified for 6.5W, the power consumption will also be much higher.
I am afraid about what has been stated above about
the G-5 pricing.I really,truly believe that the
G-5 Monsters are going to be horrendously expensive.I can only hope they do not ship only
Dual G-5's.I need power but not Dual Processores.
I don't feel like paying over $2,500.00 for it either.Anything is possible at Apple Computer,Inc.
They probably already have the Apollo chips and Motorola can massively produce the G-5 chips.So..
It is definitely possible.All the hard-core Apple
freaks will pre-order the machines anyway.So they get their money with a vapor product.They produce
maybe 100 or so machines to show it off....They will sell and Apple knows that.They are about to overtake the Graphics Industry once again....especially now that SGI sold its intellectual property to MicroSoft.Steve Jobs does
own Pixar/Renderman etc....so he does have alot of knowledge
I am afraid about what has been stated above about
the G-5 pricing.I really,truly believe that the
G-5 Monsters are going to be horrendously expensive.I can only hope they do not ship only
Dual G-5's.I need power but not Dual Processores.
I don't feel like paying over $2,500.00 for it either.Anything is possible at Apple Computer,Inc.
They probably already have the Apollo chips and Motorola can massively produce the G-5 chips.So..
It is definitely possible.All the hard-core Apple
freaks will pre-order the machines anyway.So they get their money with a vapor product.They produce
maybe 100 or so machines to show it off....They will sell and Apple knows that.They are about to overtake the Graphics Industry once again....especially now that SGI sold its intellectual property to MicroSoft.Steve Jobs does
own Pixar/Renderman etc....so he does have alot of knowledge
freaks will pre-order the machines anyway.So they get their money with a vapor product.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think that is correct. They can't / aren't supposed to debit your credit card until the product has shipped - or at a minimum has been built. They can't charge you for a product that has not even been manufactured....
Thank you, mmicist. It sounded too good to be true. The 8540 still sounds like a nice chip; even if the 8500 doesn't get the e500 core hopefully there'll be some collateral design benefits - maybe some sort of x-bar switch w/ several RapidIO ports to facilitate more 8500's in a NUMA setting similar to the Hammer setup? Plus a central RapidIO switch sitting in the middle, linking out via Fibrechannel/optical Firewire to the next cluster, which sits in another Pizza box which connects to another, etc.? Et voilá, votre 5 minute Mac G5 cluster! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> (*Drool*) <- sorry, I'll wipe it off!
As for processor speeds, the sources uniformly reported 933MHz, 1GHz, and 1.13GHz as their expectations, but were hesitant to describe their information as 'confirmed'. 1.13GHz is known to be the ceiling for the current crop of Apollo G4 processors, but the low-end is less certain; Apple wants there to be a MHz gap between the high-end G4 iMac and the low-end PMG4, but 866MHz would serve this nearly as well.
No clear predictions were made in this arena, but it stands to reason that the mid-range processor, at 1GHz, would be used in a dual-processor model, making the lineup more accurately 866-933MHz for the entry-level PMG4, 1.13GHz for the mid-range model, and Dual 1GHz for the high-end. Very impressive indeed -- if accurate, we won't have to wait long to find out.
It's a little more optimistic than the other rumors, but it's just that; rumors.
Comments
this way, nobody loses...
There is a G5 and it is ready: of this I am certain. As for the speeds, I get the impression it's from 800 to 1200 Mhz at the moment. Don't ask me about RAM or graphics 'cos I haven't heard.
I don't know what's going on in Steve's head (I wish I did). If I were him I would discount the remaining Quicksilvers to the education sector and announce the G5 at a special event this week. I don't think they have enough ready to actually ship until March, so pre-orders ala the imac would be taken.
As for the speed bumped Quicksilvers, I don't understand it either! perhaps they need to offload a ton of G4 chips. Maybe there will be two lines of towers?
Maybe the case for the G5 isn't ready? you know what a perfectionist Ives is.
But the G5 chip IS ready
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/MPC8540E500RPT.pdf"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/MPC8540E500RPT.pdf</a>;
page 15 seems to indirectly compare it to the 7450...
and maybe altivec can be incorporated into the apu
[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: mavster ]</p>
<strong>But the G5 chip IS ready</strong><hr></blockquote>
I want to believe.
Hope springs eternal.
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
HOW ARE YOU CERTAIN?
<strong>
Good point. I don't think anyone would ever post something they claimed was "certain" or "confirmed" unless they had some damn solid evidence to back it up. Think of the consequences if their post turns out to be a hoax, their AI reputation for that handle (alias, name, email, etc.) would be ruined, their future credibility would be non-existent, and they would suffer the wrath of AI members from around the world. Who would risk that sort of ostracism just to pull a prank? Who would dare raise the heckles of the AI community? Who would dare fu[k with Mac-heads!?!?! Because we are an elite race of our own, the G3, G4, and OS X users.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uh... you forgot the smilies. At least I hope you forgot them. They should be there, at the end, right?
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=03M943030450467M983989030230"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/ov erview.jsp?nodeId=03M943030450467M983989030230</a>
[quote]
Motorola : Semiconductors : PowerPC ISA : General Information : PowerPC Roadmap
PowerPC Roadmap
[top]
PowerPC Roadmap Documentation
Roadmap
ID...............Name............................. ...........Format..Size K\tRev .......#\tDate Last Modified
PPCRMAPMotorola Host Processor Strategy Roadmap..pdf\t122\t-11/30/2001<hr></blockquote>
I give up, can't format a table. But the info is there the PDF was last modified 11/30/01
[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
<strong>I give up, can't format a table. But the info is there the PDF was last modified 11/30/01
[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
The table also says the G3 tops out at 450MHz, and the G4 starts at 1 GHz.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: philbot ]</p>
<strong>for you techheads out there... why is it exactly that the 8540 can't be the infamous G5 that we're drooling over?? after seeing some info on mot's site, seems to me that it could be... specifically check out...
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/MPC8540E500RPT.pdf"; target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/MPC8540E500RPT.pdf</a>;
page 15 seems to indirectly compare it to the 7450...
and maybe altivec can be incorporated into the apu
[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: mavster ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, for one thing the 8540 is only two-way superscalar, which is [i]less[i] than most preceeding PowerPC desktop chips. For another, its only 32-bit whereas there have been many rumours for many years that the Apple-destined G5 will be 64-bit. And lastly, the eCore is designed for low-power embedded applications and is not intended to be a desktop powerhouse.
[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Programmer ]</p>
<strong>The table also says the G3 tops out at 450MHz, and the G4 starts at 1 GHz. </strong><hr></blockquote>
the first one is true, Motorolas G3s top at 450MHz, the faster ones are from IBM.
bye.
According to Motorolas Papers you can find several things:
1. the MPC8540's performance in MIPS is 30% above the MPC7450 at same Mhz
2. the MPC8540 has got 333Mhz DDR SDRAM Memory Controller
3. the MPC8540 has got a SIMD Unit with 220 new Instructions, which could be Altivec
4. the MPC 8540 can easily be used in a 4 processor system
5. the RapidIO has a memory throughput of 16Gb/s at 500Mhz
6. the MPC8540 has got a PCI 64bit 133Mhz Controller
7. Power (est) at 6.5 W
all very interesting and useful things for beeing used in a mac....
or am i an the wrong way with above info?
if we are on 1.2 Ghz with an equal performance of the 8540 the new G5 should perform around 2778 MIPS - look at the MPC7450 at 733Mhz beeing at 1324 MIPS
<strong>Interesting:
According to Motorolas Papers you can find several things:
1. the MPC8540's performance in MIPS is 30% above the MPC7450 at same Mhz
2. the MPC8540 has got 333Mhz DDR SDRAM Memory Controller
3. the MPC8540 has got a SIMD Unit with 220 new Instructions, which could be Altivec
4. the MPC 8540 can easily be used in a 4 processor system
5. the RapidIO has a memory throughput of 16Gb/s at 500Mhz
6. the MPC8540 has got a PCI 64bit 133Mhz Controller
7. Power (est) at 6.5 W
all very interesting and useful things for beeing used in a mac....
or am i an the wrong way with above info?
if we are on 1.2 Ghz with an equal performance of the 8540 the new G5 should perform around 2778 MIPS - look at the MPC7450 at 733Mhz beeing at 1324 MIPS</strong><hr></blockquote>
IIRC, it's missing an FPU,among other things.
BTW: MIPS = Meaningless Index of Performance.
<a href="http://www.futuretech.vuurwerk.nl/perf.html"; target="_blank">http://www.futuretech.vuurwerk.nl/perf.html</a>;
<strong>
7. Power (est) at 6.5 W
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mmmmm... PowerBook G5.
<strong>Interesting:
According to Motorolas Papers you can find several things:
1. the MPC8540's performance in MIPS is 30% above the MPC7450 at same Mhz
2. the MPC8540 has got 333Mhz DDR SDRAM Memory Controller</strong><hr></blockquote>
These two are almost certainly related. The on-chip memory controller will dramatically reduce latency of main memory accesses, and if well implemented should increase bandwidth.
[quote]<strong>
3. the MPC8540 has got a SIMD Unit with 220 new Instructions, which could be Altivec
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, the SIMD unit mentioned shares the integer registers, so it is 64 bit instead of 128 bit, definitely not Altivec.
[quote]<strong>
4. the MPC 8540 can easily be used in a 4 processor system
5. the RapidIO has a memory throughput of 16Gb/s at 500Mhz
<hr></blockquote></strong>
That only amounts to 2Gbytes/s, not very much for a NUMA (distributed memory) system, as it isn't even near the memory bandwidth of 3.1Gbytes/s.
[quote]<strong>
6. the MPC8540 has got a PCI 64bit 133Mhz Controller
7. Power (est) at 6.5 W
all very interesting and useful things for beeing used in a mac....
or am i an the wrong way with above info?
if we are on 1.2 Ghz with an equal performance of the 8540 the new G5 should perform around 2778 MIPS - look at the MPC7450 at 733Mhz beeing at 1324 MIPS</strong><hr></blockquote>
The document quotes an upper frequency of 1GHz. and says that the 8540 is only 32 bits, it also lacks an FPU. If the frequency of the true G5 is much higher than the 600MHz specified for 6.5W, the power consumption will also be much higher.
Michael
the G-5 pricing.I really,truly believe that the
G-5 Monsters are going to be horrendously expensive.I can only hope they do not ship only
Dual G-5's.I need power but not Dual Processores.
I don't feel like paying over $2,500.00 for it either.Anything is possible at Apple Computer,Inc.
They probably already have the Apollo chips and Motorola can massively produce the G-5 chips.So..
It is definitely possible.All the hard-core Apple
freaks will pre-order the machines anyway.So they get their money with a vapor product.They produce
maybe 100 or so machines to show it off....They will sell and Apple knows that.They are about to overtake the Graphics Industry once again....especially now that SGI sold its intellectual property to MicroSoft.Steve Jobs does
own Pixar/Renderman etc....so he does have alot of knowledge
about superior graphics technology.
the G-5 pricing.I really,truly believe that the
G-5 Monsters are going to be horrendously expensive.I can only hope they do not ship only
Dual G-5's.I need power but not Dual Processores.
I don't feel like paying over $2,500.00 for it either.Anything is possible at Apple Computer,Inc.
They probably already have the Apollo chips and Motorola can massively produce the G-5 chips.So..
It is definitely possible.All the hard-core Apple
freaks will pre-order the machines anyway.So they get their money with a vapor product.They produce
maybe 100 or so machines to show it off....They will sell and Apple knows that.They are about to overtake the Graphics Industry once again....especially now that SGI sold its intellectual property to MicroSoft.Steve Jobs does
own Pixar/Renderman etc....so he does have alot of knowledge
about superior graphics technology.
<strong>All the hard-core Apple
freaks will pre-order the machines anyway.So they get their money with a vapor product.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think that is correct. They can't / aren't supposed to debit your credit card until the product has shipped - or at a minimum has been built. They can't charge you for a product that has not even been manufactured....
[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: heinzel ]</p>
As for processor speeds, the sources uniformly reported 933MHz, 1GHz, and 1.13GHz as their expectations, but were hesitant to describe their information as 'confirmed'. 1.13GHz is known to be the ceiling for the current crop of Apollo G4 processors, but the low-end is less certain; Apple wants there to be a MHz gap between the high-end G4 iMac and the low-end PMG4, but 866MHz would serve this nearly as well.
No clear predictions were made in this arena, but it stands to reason that the mid-range processor, at 1GHz, would be used in a dual-processor model, making the lineup more accurately 866-933MHz for the entry-level PMG4, 1.13GHz for the mid-range model, and Dual 1GHz for the high-end. Very impressive indeed -- if accurate, we won't have to wait long to find out.
It's a little more optimistic than the other rumors, but it's just that; rumors.