Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
Originally Posted by anonymouse
sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case)
recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.
Citations provided. It's not that we "don't need proof" of what we say, it's that we just expect you to be able to find it in the same way we did. It's information; it's all out there. Being able to find it quickly and accurately is a life skill. If we're ever thrown back into pre-Industrial times, I'd be able to survive because I know how a paper card freaking catalog works.
The ones that just make up absolute crap? Those you can tell from a mile away.
Originally Posted by stike vomit
Or a third reason - That the S3 is simply a more capable / better value phone?
It is all about the money and incentives paid to move the product. It should be no surprise. Does anyone believe that Peyton Manning and Tiger Woods drive Buicks? No but they are paid to recommend them. Same story here but on a much smaller incentive scale.
TS, the second link (2012) has nothing to do with OS retention rates and the first one (2011) says "It's only a tiny sample (216 people), so large conclusions must not be drawn."
I think there's probably one out there that proves your point but neither of those does.
EDIT: Geesh TS, I know you must have better citations that these. Add that the one you've given to prove Android users don't like their OS says nothing of the sort either. You normally have pretty good links to back up your claims. Several of these don't really cut it. . .
Or a third reason - That the S3 is simply a more capable / better value phone?
While that is a valid point, the overall sales numbers for each model show differently. Especially given the longer length of time the G3 has been in the market and the BOGO offers and gift cards associated with the G3. I think it comes down to whatever promotion retailers are running and whatever incentives the manufacturer is giving to the retailer to sell the phones.
It is all about the money and incentives paid to move the product. It should be no surprise. Does anyone believe that Peyton Manning and Tiger Woods drive Buicks? No but they are paid to recommend them. Same story here but on a much smaller incentive scale.
I don't know about Peyton and Tiger but Derek Jeter does drive a Ford Edge, well at least to Yankee Stadium.
Oh yeah, sorry, we play by the AI rules here don't we. Anything you or TS say requires no data to back it up, the rest of us have to provide evidence in triplicate signed in blood. Silly me.
I'd like to see the evidence that says carriers install key loggers, average users don't love Android (which is a bit weird - who loves an OS?) and that iOS users don't migrate to Android in significant numbers (which is actually exactly what I am seeing with users I know). I won't hold my breath though.
I just don't understand why you see something evil and underhand in what is a normal business practice.
If you're being sincere here, you really don't have a clue what's going on in the world, so you should educate yourself before commenting, or asking the rest of us to waste our time to satisfy your ignorance.
Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
...If you're working for AAPL and you see the stock tumbled in a matter of months, your work ethics could be affected, your concentration could be affected, in fact you might even look for a new job. The whole company's productivity is in fact a function of the stock price (yes even in the short-term).
Your statement is a massive exaggeration and oversimplification. Stock does indeed have some effect on a great many things, even in the short term. Employees included. Some effect. The long term matters more.
The whole company's productivity? Your concentration might be affected? I think you're trying too hard to see what you want to find.
And people INSIDE Apple know far better than short-term speculators what's really going on. They're in the BEST position to know this kind of incident means little for the company's future. (Not nothing... but very little.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
"It was just for diagnostic data that was sent to Apple, and customers had to actively opt in to that to even provide us that level of information," Apple tells us. "If they opted in, that data was sent anonymously, and in encrypted fashion. We did not record keystrokes, messages or any personal information for the diagnostic data, and we have no plans to in the future."
Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
Not only was Carrier IQ also installed on iPhones (because it helps analyze potential signal problems, to improve service), but the whole logging thing was overblown due to typical "researcher" ignorance.
None of that data was sent anywhere. As that quote carefully put it, yes, the info was "recorded".... but only locally in the global developer debug log that everything logs to.
As any developer on the planet knows, all that this meant was that some poor sucker forgot to turn off the debug flag in the software before deploying it. A goof, yes. Spying? NO.
It's not much different than the developer mistake that happened at Apple, when someone forgot to write code to limit the location lookahead cache, and all that hullabaloo went on about how Apple was "storing our location movements".
Isn't this true for all retailers in the entire world? Other than at an Apple Store, I've never heard an iPhone recommended after the 4 came out. The 4 was the last one I ever heard reccoemended. Ever. 3 years ago.
Here is a radical thought. Maybe they recommend the Galaxy because it is a cooler phone. I have had two Macs and two iPhones (3G and 4s). I just traded in my 4s for a Galaxy Note II because it was a much better phone then the iPhone 5. Apple hasn't done anything really new in a long time but the somehow they still have this loyal followers who keep saying Apple is the great innovator. I don't get it.
For the record my sales person didn't push one over the other but when I saw him pull his own Galaxy Note II from his pocket well enough said. If he made so much on commission and really liked Apple better, wouldn't he own one?
I wait until some other forum to rip into Mac and iPad people, some issues different products.
This is definitely true in Australia, where Vodafone, Optus and Telstra heavily promote Samsung devices EVERYWHERE. And yet the iphone5 was still one of the most popular devices
When I think of Samsung I only think of shame, fanboys, bullies and copycats.
Comments
Originally Posted by isaidso
And this surprises who?
The British retailers who didn't think they'd get caught?
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
It's called lobbying folks. Pay the retailers to recommend your product over the competition.
On the level, is it legal?
Originally Posted by Evilution
Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.
So you'd sell your principles for a tiny bonus check?
Oh, and citations needed?
Originally Posted by anonymouse
they get more control over the user experience (including the ability to install key loggers)
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/android-bloatware-results-in-serious-security-flaws/16853
http://www.techhive.com/article/2000055/ban-bloatware-we-want-our-smartphones-back.html
Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
Originally Posted by anonymouse
sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case)
Doesn't need a citation, as it's a supposition.
Originally Posted by anonymouse
but average users really don't love Android
This was last year.
Originally Posted by anonymouse
recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.
2011. 2012.
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Android and Android phones represent the typical crappy experience that carriers have traditionally provided, and consumers don't like it
Bloatware: 2010. 2011. 2012.
Blocked updates: 2012.
Citations provided. It's not that we "don't need proof" of what we say, it's that we just expect you to be able to find it in the same way we did. It's information; it's all out there. Being able to find it quickly and accurately is a life skill. If we're ever thrown back into pre-Industrial times, I'd be able to survive because I know how a paper card freaking catalog works.
The ones that just make up absolute crap? Those you can tell from a mile away.
Originally Posted by stike vomit
Or a third reason - That the S3 is simply a more capable / better value phone?
No, that's not the case in the slightest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
This was last year.
2011. 2012.
TS, the second link (2012) has nothing to do with OS retention rates and the first one (2011) says "It's only a tiny sample (216 people), so large conclusions must not be drawn."
I think there's probably one out there that proves your point but neither of those does.
EDIT: Geesh TS, I know you must have better citations that these. Add that the one you've given to prove Android users don't like their OS says nothing of the sort either. You normally have pretty good links to back up your claims. Several of these don't really cut it. . .
While that is a valid point, the overall sales numbers for each model show differently. Especially given the longer length of time the G3 has been in the market and the BOGO offers and gift cards associated with the G3. I think it comes down to whatever promotion retailers are running and whatever incentives the manufacturer is giving to the retailer to sell the phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The British retailers who didn't think they'd get caught?
'Get caught' doing what exactly? Recommending non-Apple phones is not a crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No, that's not the case in the slightest.
You forgot to add "In my opinion" at the end of your sentence.
I don't know about Peyton and Tiger but Derek Jeter does drive a Ford Edge, well at least to Yankee Stadium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The British retailers who didn't think they'd get caught?
'Get caught' doing what exactly? AFAIK recommending non-Apple phones is not a crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No, that's not the case in the slightest.
In your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefoid
Oh yeah, sorry, we play by the AI rules here don't we. Anything you or TS say requires no data to back it up, the rest of us have to provide evidence in triplicate signed in blood. Silly me.
I'd like to see the evidence that says carriers install key loggers, average users don't love Android (which is a bit weird - who loves an OS?) and that iOS users don't migrate to Android in significant numbers (which is actually exactly what I am seeing with users I know). I won't hold my breath though.
I just don't understand why you see something evil and underhand in what is a normal business practice.
If you're being sincere here, you really don't have a clue what's going on in the world, so you should educate yourself before commenting, or asking the rest of us to waste our time to satisfy your ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
The British retailers who didn't think they'd get caught?
'Get caught' doing what exactly? Recommending non-Apple phones is not a crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No, that's not the case in the slightest.
In your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
Carrier IQ was also installed on iPhones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever
...If you're working for AAPL and you see the stock tumbled in a matter of months, your work ethics could be affected, your concentration could be affected, in fact you might even look for a new job. The whole company's productivity is in fact a function of the stock price (yes even in the short-term).
Your statement is a massive exaggeration and oversimplification. Stock does indeed have some effect on a great many things, even in the short term. Employees included. Some effect. The long term matters more.
The whole company's productivity? Your concentration might be affected? I think you're trying too hard to see what you want to find.
And people INSIDE Apple know far better than short-term speculators what's really going on. They're in the BEST position to know this kind of incident means little for the company's future. (Not nothing... but very little.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
Carrier IQ was also installed on iPhones.
Yes, but in name only: NOT to record user data.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/12/apple-carrier-iq-still-on-iphone-4-but-we-dont-read-your-e-mail-and-texts/
"It was just for diagnostic data that was sent to Apple, and customers had to actively opt in to that to even provide us that level of information," Apple tells us. "If they opted in, that data was sent anonymously, and in encrypted fashion. We did not record keystrokes, messages or any personal information for the diagnostic data, and we have no plans to in the future."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Carrier IQ, a company that provides diagnostic analysis of smartphones to carriers, came under fire last year after a security researcher discovered that the software was recording keystrokes, browsing history, and other user data.
Not only was Carrier IQ also installed on iPhones (because it helps analyze potential signal problems, to improve service), but the whole logging thing was overblown due to typical "researcher" ignorance.
None of that data was sent anywhere. As that quote carefully put it, yes, the info was "recorded".... but only locally in the global developer debug log that everything logs to.
As any developer on the planet knows, all that this meant was that some poor sucker forgot to turn off the debug flag in the software before deploying it. A goof, yes. Spying? NO.
It's not much different than the developer mistake that happened at Apple, when someone forgot to write code to limit the location lookahead cache, and all that hullabaloo went on about how Apple was "storing our location movements".
Now, back to our regularly scheduled program...
The BBC Micro.
That's a good thing Michael Faraday invented electricity. Where would we all be without that?
Originally Posted by DogCowabunga
That's a good thing Michael Faraday invented electricity. Where would we all be without that?
In cages.
Wasn't he in LOST?
Here is a radical thought. Maybe they recommend the Galaxy because it is a cooler phone. I have had two Macs and two iPhones (3G and 4s). I just traded in my 4s for a Galaxy Note II because it was a much better phone then the iPhone 5. Apple hasn't done anything really new in a long time but the somehow they still have this loyal followers who keep saying Apple is the great innovator. I don't get it.
For the record my sales person didn't push one over the other but when I saw him pull his own Galaxy Note II from his pocket well enough said. If he made so much on commission and really liked Apple better, wouldn't he own one?
I wait until some other forum to rip into Mac and iPad people, some issues different products.
This is definitely true in Australia, where Vodafone, Optus and Telstra heavily promote Samsung devices EVERYWHERE. And yet the iphone5 was still one of the most popular devices
When I think of Samsung I only think of shame, fanboys, bullies and copycats.