[" url="/t/155739/apple-to-cease-european-mac-pro-sales-march-1-due-to-regulatory-requirements#post_2269057"]
Yes, it is stupid and quite totalitarian. Even though the trend in recent years has been towards lower powered CPUs and mobile devices, if somebody wishes to buy a computer that consumes a bit more power, then nobody should be able to come along and tell them that they can't, especially not a bunch of hypocritical weenies in the EU. A Mac Pro should be damn powerful and not be constrained by any ridiculous energy requirements. If I'm laying down thousands of dollars for a Mac Pro, I demand a beast of a machine, and one that is not limited in any way.
If it is a power issue, then Apple should either halt all sales of the Mac Pro to the EU region, as there probably aren't too many pros there anyway. Or Apple can release a lower powered model for the EU region in which half of the cores are disabled.
Your typical and ignorant garbage... Don't have a clue of what is in question yet go on with his ridiculous and prejudiced slandering...
Dude, in case you haven't noticed, when the world needs a server they use Linux. You don't need a server to synch iTunes with your iPod, leaving the only reason to use a Mac server being Filemaker. For everything else there are reasons the world chooses Linux, such as:
Not really, Linux is not properly suited for all the tasks, has design issues, is not POSIX compliant, and no Linux distribution integrates seamlessly with OS X or Apple's ecosystem. While you can make that happen, it is, again, not seamless, thus justifying investment in the hardware, which is a lot cheaper than human resources.
All the more reason to use the de facto standard for modern servers and supercomputers. I realize this is a lonely view here, but I support Apple's move to drop XServe. It wasn't selling; Xeon processors in a rack-mounted form factor are commodities not worth Apple's time to address.
Yes, you can boot a Mac Pro with the side panel off. For some diagnostic tests you have to run it with the side panel off to access the logic board.
iForgot. RAM test as well, with those lights coming on. Neat stuff.
Lots of home users have Mac Pros, and many of them have little brats who like to go sticking their fingers in things.
True. I just cannot phantom the idea of creating a law for every freakin' possibility of injury. What's next? Illegal to cross a street without properly looking because you might get run over?
True, Linux is not UNIX, but tell us: where has the few areas where the Linux Standard Base isn't a superset of POSIX ever slowed down the dominance of Linux in the server market?
Did you stop discussing technical merits because the subject is no longer convenient to you? Linux succeeds because it's something anyone can easily add their crap to, even I've done it myself as part of a port to PDA nearly a decade ago, not because it's technically superior. Linux's support for real time multithreading is crap as it suffers from inverted priority issues resulting from lacking POSIX compliance; likewise, Linux's support for asynchronous IO is also crap compared to any BSD flavor, OS X included, due to design issues that can not feasibly be fixed without changing a boatload of code. Have these things stopped Linux from growing in popularity? No, but neither did Internet Explorer's issues. Most people, including system administrators don't really understand the kind of effort software engineers like me have to put into working around Linux's issues. As a user I do enjoy Linux, it makes everything feel easy compared to other kernels, but as a software engineer I loathe it, and if given the choice I'd rather write code for Darwin servers, which are at least POSIX 2001 compliant, than for Linux that is roughly, but not exactly, POSIX 2008.
Apple is a consumer electronics company, having positioned themselves as leaders in a "post-PC era".
So you'll have to take that up with Apple. How many years has it been since they saw it worth their time to update the Pro?
I don't know, I don't care about the Mac Pro, in my opinion it serves no real purpose, which is why I said that they should kill it and bring back the Xserve, which would target a bigger audience than the Mac Pro does. Mac Pro is server hardware in a workstation box that you can't feasibly host in a data center; Xserve is server hardware in a server box that you can host in a datacenter or use as a workstation.
Here's where you can let Apple know they screwed up by putting a server in a workstation case: http://www.apple.com/contact/
Good luck with that. Let us know how it works out.
Personally, I support Apple's decision on XServe, and I also support their decision to let the Mac Pro languish given their current product focus. The world has moved on, and Apple mas moved on to more profitable things.
That's ridiculous. I'm just stating my opinion, I'm not a client for any of those products. I'm a urban digital nomad, my MacBook Pro is my desktop and everything I need. I'm not saying either product is needed, only that if they have to have a modular product, at least let that be the Xserve.
I don't know, I don't care about the Mac Pro, in my opinion it serves no real purpose, which is why I said that they should kill it and bring back the Xserve, which would target a bigger audience than the Mac Pro does. Mac Pro is server hardware in a workstation box that you can't feasibly host in a data center; Xserve is server hardware in a server box that you can host in a datacenter or use as a workstation.
Somehow my post got messed up even though I rewrote it, it submitted the old one. Your perception here is off. Intel leverages Sandy Bridge E in both Xeon and i7 builds, and they cost the same amount. Sandy EP is used by Dell, HP, and all of the rest, mostly in dual package workstations. Apple uses both from the Nehalem/Westmere era currently. No data center would build around Apple hardware. Apple didn't even use the Xserve in their own centers. Minis work for small offices. If it's something IO intensive, a mac pro refactored to be rackmount friendly would suffice for limited demand. It's not like Apple even has the infrastructure set up for enterprise server support, yet you think they'd be better off resurrecting something they ditched long ago. Even with the long duty cycles of server hardware, it's unlikely that a large number of customers would return. I think you're way too stuck on it being server hardware. You're thinking of E5-46XX and E7 hardware.
Europe actually has quite a logical body of law, per country, apart maybe for France which suffers from excessive legislation.
You're joking right? Spain going broke and losing 2 existing jobs for every 1 "green" job they create. Germany going "green" and having electric rates go up 61% since 2000. Greece in such economic turmoil that people are having to cut down every tree they can in order to have heat and cook food. That's logical?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
What's next? Illegal to cross a street without properly looking because you might get run over?
No they have pushed the responsibility from the pedestrian to the automaker. Pedestrian Impact Standards are why cars are getting blocky front ends with tall hoods. Larger area to absorb impact and more space between the hood and engine so it crushes when people step in front of your car.
All I can say is that I am getting tired of constant OSX updates that are less and less functional and are only designed to increase profit, less attention to Pro Apps, and the neglected Mac Pro. I am really glad I bought into the 2010, 5,1 Mac Pro as it has not changed substantially since. Snow Leopard 10.6.8 will remain my go to OS as it is stable and sane in its operation. I have Mountain Lion on one internal boot drive for those companies like Adobe that only really care about the latest release for stability in their apps. Multiple boots, not very easy on an iMac. Please, a Mac Pro in the future so developers keep developing for pros. I love my iPhone and my iPad, but I’m not buying another one soon, and can only do my work on a Mac Pro level machine. Please, GIVE US A TIMELINE, or get off the pot!
All I can say is that I am getting tired of constant OSX updates that are less and less functional and are only designed to increase profit…
We'll have to wait for that to start happening before you can say you're tired of it.
…less attention to Pro Apps…
Completely redesigned = "less attention to"?
I am really glad I bought into the 2010, 5,1 Mac Pro as it has not changed substantially since.
That's because it hasn't changed.
Mac OS 9.2 will remain my go to OS as it is stable and sane in its operation.
You, 2001.
I have Mountain Lion on one internal boot drive for those companies like Adobe that only really care about the latest release for stability in their apps.
HA! Adobe caring about stability or the latest features! Oh dear, that's a knee-slapper!
Multiple boots, not very easy on an iMac.
Holding Option is hard.
Please, a Mac Pro in the future…
Cook promised one. Not sure why people STILL keep sacrificing goats to pagan gods as though we know nothing about its future.
…so developers keep developing for pros.
It's called the iMac.
Please, GIVE US A TIMELINE…
"This year". You'd think since you care so much you would have paid more attention.
Right. There's no question that it's hopelessly out of date, except where it isn't. It's due—overdue in some cases—but that we know we're getting a new one is more than we've ever known before.
Comments
Read somewhere it could be a fan issue: they are unprotected.
The next design that Tim said is coming this year could meet the requirements and be sold.
We'll see.
Originally Posted by Sensi
Any source to backup your unsubstantiated claim? I doubt it has anything to do with electrical hazard from 5V fans, so I don't believe that at all.
Really? You read 'unprotected fans' and your first guess is "electrical hazard"?
Call me old-fashioned, but I wish more fans were like they were a few decades ago. Might instill some intelligence in people early.
deleted
Not really, Linux is not properly suited for all the tasks, has design issues, is not POSIX compliant, and no Linux distribution integrates seamlessly with OS X or Apple's ecosystem. While you can make that happen, it is, again, not seamless, thus justifying investment in the hardware, which is a lot cheaper than human resources.
And the Mac Pro isn't?
Like Apple fans, you mean¿
iForgot. RAM test as well, with those lights coming on. Neat stuff.
True. I just cannot phantom the idea of creating a law for every freakin' possibility of injury. What's next? Illegal to cross a street without properly looking because you might get run over?
It's not: no LOM, no hot swap HDD, no redundant PSU...
Agree. if we're going to get laws and redesigns just so people don't have to think anymore we'll evolve into being, well, dumb.
deleted
Did you stop discussing technical merits because the subject is no longer convenient to you? Linux succeeds because it's something anyone can easily add their crap to, even I've done it myself as part of a port to PDA nearly a decade ago, not because it's technically superior. Linux's support for real time multithreading is crap as it suffers from inverted priority issues resulting from lacking POSIX compliance; likewise, Linux's support for asynchronous IO is also crap compared to any BSD flavor, OS X included, due to design issues that can not feasibly be fixed without changing a boatload of code. Have these things stopped Linux from growing in popularity? No, but neither did Internet Explorer's issues. Most people, including system administrators don't really understand the kind of effort software engineers like me have to put into working around Linux's issues. As a user I do enjoy Linux, it makes everything feel easy compared to other kernels, but as a software engineer I loathe it, and if given the choice I'd rather write code for Darwin servers, which are at least POSIX 2001 compliant, than for Linux that is roughly, but not exactly, POSIX 2008.
I don't know, I don't care about the Mac Pro, in my opinion it serves no real purpose, which is why I said that they should kill it and bring back the Xserve, which would target a bigger audience than the Mac Pro does. Mac Pro is server hardware in a workstation box that you can't feasibly host in a data center; Xserve is server hardware in a server box that you can host in a datacenter or use as a workstation.
deleted
That's ridiculous. I'm just stating my opinion, I'm not a client for any of those products. I'm a urban digital nomad, my MacBook Pro is my desktop and everything I need. I'm not saying either product is needed, only that if they have to have a modular product, at least let that be the Xserve.
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
I don't know, I don't care about the Mac Pro, in my opinion it serves no real purpose, which is why I said that they should kill it and bring back the Xserve, which would target a bigger audience than the Mac Pro does. Mac Pro is server hardware in a workstation box that you can't feasibly host in a data center; Xserve is server hardware in a server box that you can host in a datacenter or use as a workstation.
Somehow my post got messed up even though I rewrote it, it submitted the old one. Your perception here is off. Intel leverages Sandy Bridge E in both Xeon and i7 builds, and they cost the same amount. Sandy EP is used by Dell, HP, and all of the rest, mostly in dual package workstations. Apple uses both from the Nehalem/Westmere era currently. No data center would build around Apple hardware. Apple didn't even use the Xserve in their own centers. Minis work for small offices. If it's something IO intensive, a mac pro refactored to be rackmount friendly would suffice for limited demand. It's not like Apple even has the infrastructure set up for enterprise server support, yet you think they'd be better off resurrecting something they ditched long ago. Even with the long duty cycles of server hardware, it's unlikely that a large number of customers would return. I think you're way too stuck on it being server hardware. You're thinking of E5-46XX and E7 hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight
Europe actually has quite a logical body of law, per country, apart maybe for France which suffers from excessive legislation.You're joking right? Spain going broke and losing 2 existing jobs for every 1 "green" job they create. Germany going "green" and having electric rates go up 61% since 2000. Greece in such economic turmoil that people are having to cut down every tree they can in order to have heat and cook food. That's logical?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
What's next? Illegal to cross a street without properly looking because you might get run over?
No they have pushed the responsibility from the pedestrian to the automaker. Pedestrian Impact Standards are why cars are getting blocky front ends with tall hoods. Larger area to absorb impact and more space between the hood and engine so it crushes when people step in front of your car.
All I can say is that I am getting tired of constant OSX updates that are less and less functional and are only designed to increase profit, less attention to Pro Apps, and the neglected Mac Pro. I am really glad I bought into the 2010, 5,1 Mac Pro as it has not changed substantially since. Snow Leopard 10.6.8 will remain my go to OS as it is stable and sane in its operation. I have Mountain Lion on one internal boot drive for those companies like Adobe that only really care about the latest release for stability in their apps. Multiple boots, not very easy on an iMac. Please, a Mac Pro in the future so developers keep developing for pros. I love my iPhone and my iPad, but I’m not buying another one soon, and can only do my work on a Mac Pro level machine. Please, GIVE US A TIMELINE, or get off the pot!
Originally Posted by Jim W
All I can say is that I am getting tired of constant OSX updates that are less and less functional and are only designed to increase profit…
We'll have to wait for that to start happening before you can say you're tired of it.
…less attention to Pro Apps…
Completely redesigned = "less attention to"?
I am really glad I bought into the 2010, 5,1 Mac Pro as it has not changed substantially since.
That's because it hasn't changed.
Mac OS 9.2 will remain my go to OS as it is stable and sane in its operation.
You, 2001.
I have Mountain Lion on one internal boot drive for those companies like Adobe that only really care about the latest release for stability in their apps.
HA! Adobe caring about stability or the latest features! Oh dear, that's a knee-slapper!
Multiple boots, not very easy on an iMac.
Holding Option is hard.
Please, a Mac Pro in the future…
Cook promised one. Not sure why people STILL keep sacrificing goats to pagan gods as though we know nothing about its future.
…so developers keep developing for pros.
It's called the iMac.
Please, GIVE US A TIMELINE…
"This year". You'd think since you care so much you would have paid more attention.
I stand by my statements despite your derision. Check Mac Performance Guide. We are both talking performance, not promises.
Originally Posted by Jim W
We are both talking performance, not promises.
Right. There's no question that it's hopelessly out of date, except where it isn't. It's due—overdue in some cases—but that we know we're getting a new one is more than we've ever known before.