As noted a Class 10 card is supposed to do at least 10 MB/s but can and do go faster. Note that the times here include processing time and are only relevant for the D800. Given that the CF cards run faster the times for the SD cards is probably pretty close to what they can do and speed isn't being limited by the camera.
This may not strictly be true given that the Canon reportedly screwed up their SD card slot design or firmware or both and have slow SD card speeds in the 5D Mk III but very good CF speeds.
So speeds aren't sustainable at 8MB/s since the minimum is 10MB's? See what I'm getting it. The Class of the SD is in relation to the device it's designed for. You use Class 10 when the device requires a minimum of 10MB/s but a Class 10 SD card is sustainable at lower speeds than 10MB/s if the device it's used in is slower.
Outside of an event DJ or similar professional requirements, I question the need to have one's entire music library on hand when on the go. Maybe you want them all, but I don't see it as necessary and have long ago abandoned the concept. On my iPhone, I have 11GB set aside for music, and that gives 125 hours without a single repeat. On every sync, smart playlists change out tracks that have been played with less played tracks, so it feels bottomless without having to spend more on mobile storage or carry an extra device. For the more favorite tracks, I have them in smart playlists with higher priority sync rotation so they stay longer.
It isn't actually necessary to have any music when on the go, but it is desirable. For you a choice from 125 hours is sufficient, for me it isn't, and I don't understand why anyone would question what I feel is sufficient for me. I have no need of an iPhone; you obviously do, but I don't question that.
I go on a number of holidays each year, sometimes for three or four weeks at a time and I really don't see the point in leaving most of my music at home for up to 3 months every year.
Well, yes. Apple is wanting people to make that comparison with Microsoft Surface Pro. Other than screen res, it's mostly a poorer spec than any decent Ultrabook including the MBA. And it has a floppy keyboard, meaning you must deploy a kickstand to use it, so they’ve invented a laptop you can’t use on your lap.
Others are tying this launch with the Surface Pro launch as if they are competing products. I don’t think so. What Apple really ought to do is set up a product compare page that puts the iPad side by side with the MBA. Anyone comparing the Surface with iPad would immediately see that and be directed to the rather obvious question: why am I buying this, not a notebook that’s thinner and lighter, and has a proper keyboard?
My MBA, and one of my girl friends who just got one [because it's cute and light and much better quality than the HP she bought without asking me my opinion, foolish one!] both want to confirm this.
Also, she got the smallest capacity MBA. She's gonna regret that.
Based on your well thought out criteria you now have 1) a starting price that is $125 more than it is currently which loses a great man potential customers that help bring the cost of the high-end models down by economies of scale, and 2) have the difference between the 16 and 64GB so close to get that the 16 and 32GB models probably won't sell well at all thus making them stock they can't easily move unless they drop the price even more which then goes against your stated ideal..
I go on a number of holidays each year, sometimes for three or four weeks at a time and I really don't see the point in leaving most of my music at home for up to 3 months every year.
The REASON I oppose it is that when people vote with their wallets by refusing to buy things that they perceive as too expensive, Apple doesn't lower the price, they discontinue the item. Now everyone who thought the 17" MacBook Pro was a good idea but overpriced is screwed.
I don't see how this could ever be a valid point.
Case A: User really wants item and pays whatever the company asks for it
Case B: User actually doesn't really want the item and doesn't pay. User doesn't get to complain that he did not get the item for less
No other case possible.
Also, User can buy outdated old model from hipster (I remember reading a thread here that only hipsters buy the 17'' anyway). If hipster did not sell it already to get a Surface Pro rMBP.
1) How is SD faster than the on-board NAND Apple uses?
2) When have you ever had on-board NAND fail in an Apple device?
3) Are you then using the SD card to also boot the OS in the scenario?
1) I visually can't tell a difference between my iPad 1 gen and iPad 4... and I know I can't tell the difference between a breathe of a SD10 and NAND format.
2) Funny NASA said that exact same thing about the Challenger. Between my iPad 1, iPad 4, and daughter's iPhone 5, none. But if it does fail, I know I won't be getting the data off before sunrise.
3) Nope, but I can use my trusty SD card on my 5 year old Dell laptop to access what the other OS was supposed to access.
I go on a number of holidays each year, sometimes for three or four weeks at a time and I really don't see the point in leaving most of my music at home for up to 3 months every year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight
You... you... _rich man_!
You must be a lawyer, or maybe a surgeon.
Ha ha! I wish I was, alas the truth is far more prosaic. I was made redundant, took early retirement and live off a small pension. The advantage is that I can look for bargain holidays and take them whenever I want. 4 weeks on Crete for £575 last May
1) I visually can't tell a difference between my iPad 1 gen and iPad 4... and I know I can't tell the difference between a breathe of a SD10 and NAND format.
2) Funny NASA said that exact same thing about the Challenger. Between my iPad 1, iPad 4, and daughter's iPhone 5, none. But if it does fail, I know I won't be getting the data off before sunrise.
3) Nope, but I can use my trusty SD card on my 5 year old Dell laptop to access what the other OS was supposed to access.
It's customer like you that keep the other vendors racing to the bottom. If you can't see the difference between 132 and 264 PPI and the performance differences between the 1st and 4th gen iPad then I envy you but that isn't the case with most people that choose Apple's products. They can tell they are made better and work better than the competition. I still hear how Windows is just like Mac OS X, but better, at which point I'm given a bizarre example.
^ I really can't... older age, bad eyes, IDK. As far as a OS system for computers, I use what I grew up with. A Lambo may be the "top drawer" until a Ford F250 is needed.
And one thing you said. "They can tell they are made better and work better than the competition." :Let's take your ipad, mac, or iphone and download random pics and music vs. my Sammy Skyrocket. Without bluteooth, wi-fi or wired, let's see who can get their content to a third party system faster.
I am betting that when the iPad 5 comes out, (whenever), it will keep the four model that there are currently, (64GB-128GB) but drop them in price $100. That way, the 32GB is now at the $499.00 price point and the 128GB is at the same price point as the 64GB is today. In this senario, the 16GB* replaces the iPad 2 at the low end of the spectrum for full sized iPads.
The other possibility is the same as above, but the 16GB version is the iPad 4.
* Edit: I was rereading my post and noticed that I had put 64 in place of 16.
It isn't actually necessary to have any music when on the go, but it is desirable. For you a choice from 125 hours is sufficient, for me it isn't, and I don't understand why anyone would question what I feel is sufficient for me. I have no need of an iPhone; you obviously do, but I don't question that.
I don't need an iPhone. I have one because I like it. I'm not pining for one that holds twenty times as much because it doesn't hold my terabytes of media. My iPhone is also three years old. I don't feel a compulsion to get a new one just because.
I go on a number of holidays each year, sometimes for three or four weeks at a time and I really don't see the point in leaving most of my music at home for up to 3 months every year.
Let me put it this way: Do you bring everything you own on your trips? You have to leave something behind no matter what, in this case, you'd be leaving something behind that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of having it anyway. During any given trip, how much of the music are you actually going to listen to? For a four week trip, are you actually going to listen to more than 200 hours of audio? And is listening to the same track twice in three weeks really so awful that you desire to take 400 hours of audio, the extra 200 hours of it you're clearly not going to listen to? With the method I described, the tracks on your audio player would be changed out when you get back home to sync, so the next vacation you would be listening to all new audio. So it's not as if the remainder of your library always sits abandoned. It just strikes me as odd that someone would think it's worth replacing a fully functional iPod to carry along 1280 hours of audio instead of "just" 960 hours of audio (160GB at approx. 256kbps). 960 hours is eight and a half weeks of continuous playback without repeats, for every waking hour. Sure, it's your money, but the justification strikes me as insanity when a simple smart playlist simulates the same thing and you'd probably never notice the difference.
So speeds aren't sustainable at 8MB/s since the minimum is 10MB's? See what I'm getting it. The Class of the SD is in relation to the device it's designed for. You use Class 10 when the device requires a minimum of 10MB/s but a Class 10 SD card is sustainable at lower speeds than 10MB/s if the device it's used in is slower.
You're thinking about it too hard. OK, let's try different words. For class 10, 10MB/s is a guaranteed sustained speed. Generally a card is faster than its class rating, but the card can sustain at least that write speed even in adverse writing circumstances. The class rating isn't an indication of peak speed, and it might even take a sustained speed higher than that. It's a way for a user and device to make sure the card is fast enough for the device's needs and make sure it doesn't mess up a recording because the card choked doing a bit of housekeeping along the way.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) You know that Class 10 refers to 10MB/s, right? Well here is the 2 year old iPhone 4S from AnandTech's testing…
2) What method did you use to test the differences between on-board NAND and SD NAND performance?
The Samsung class 10 16GB was measured at 16.3MB/s jpeg and 16.9MB/s raw in a D800. Most Class 10s appear to be in the 12-15MB/s range.
The best SD cards clock in 38MB/s range.
I bought this one for $80 off Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-Pro-SDHC-SDSDXP1-032G/dp/B004JJQN8G
Methodology is in here:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-12451
These are the max sustained rates.
As noted a Class 10 card is supposed to do at least 10 MB/s but can and do go faster. Note that the times here include processing time and are only relevant for the D800. Given that the CF cards run faster the times for the SD cards is probably pretty close to what they can do and speed isn't being limited by the camera.
This may not strictly be true given that the Canon reportedly screwed up their SD card slot design or firmware or both and have slow SD card speeds in the 5D Mk III but very good CF speeds.
So speeds aren't sustainable at 8MB/s since the minimum is 10MB's? See what I'm getting it. The Class of the SD is in relation to the device it's designed for. You use Class 10 when the device requires a minimum of 10MB/s but a Class 10 SD card is sustainable at lower speeds than 10MB/s if the device it's used in is slower.
Are these speeds the maximum sustainable or simply the maximum possible? AnandTech only tested the maximum sustainable.
While I'm sure Class 10 cards can do better than 10MB/s I have a hard believing they are over 20MB/s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Outside of an event DJ or similar professional requirements, I question the need to have one's entire music library on hand when on the go. Maybe you want them all, but I don't see it as necessary and have long ago abandoned the concept. On my iPhone, I have 11GB set aside for music, and that gives 125 hours without a single repeat. On every sync, smart playlists change out tracks that have been played with less played tracks, so it feels bottomless without having to spend more on mobile storage or carry an extra device. For the more favorite tracks, I have them in smart playlists with higher priority sync rotation so they stay longer.
It isn't actually necessary to have any music when on the go, but it is desirable. For you a choice from 125 hours is sufficient, for me it isn't, and I don't understand why anyone would question what I feel is sufficient for me. I have no need of an iPhone; you obviously do, but I don't question that.
I go on a number of holidays each year, sometimes for three or four weeks at a time and I really don't see the point in leaving most of my music at home for up to 3 months every year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
Because I expect iPad 5 [let's just call it that, OK?]
You wanna start a war with TS on Apple Naming?
BTW, I wonder when they will announce iPhone 5?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
Now of course, I'll lay out the $750 for an iPad 4 32GB & the picosecond I do that, Apple will send out the invites for a March event ....
Yeeeccchhh ....
You're ridiculously mistaken.
Apple will wait until your retractation delay has ended!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
Now of course, I'll lay out the $750 for an iPad 4 32GB & the picosecond I do that, Apple will send out the invites for a March event ....
Yeeeccchhh ....
You're ridiculously mistaken.
Apple will wait until your retractation delay has ended!
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm
Well, yes. Apple is wanting people to make that comparison with Microsoft Surface Pro. Other than screen res, it's mostly a poorer spec than any decent Ultrabook including the MBA. And it has a floppy keyboard, meaning you must deploy a kickstand to use it, so they’ve invented a laptop you can’t use on your lap.
Others are tying this launch with the Surface Pro launch as if they are competing products. I don’t think so. What Apple really ought to do is set up a product compare page that puts the iPad side by side with the MBA. Anyone comparing the Surface with iPad would immediately see that and be directed to the rather obvious question: why am I buying this, not a notebook that’s thinner and lighter, and has a proper keyboard?
My MBA, and one of my girl friends who just got one [because it's cute and light and much better quality than the HP she bought without asking me my opinion, foolish one!] both want to confirm this.
Also, she got the smallest capacity MBA. She's gonna regret that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Based on your well thought out criteria you now have 1) a starting price that is $125 more than it is currently which loses a great man potential customers that help bring the cost of the high-end models down by economies of scale, and 2) have the difference between the 16 and 64GB so close to get that the 16 and 32GB models probably won't sell well at all thus making them stock they can't easily move unless they drop the price even more which then goes against your stated ideal..
Let the man be... he just wants cheezburger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenbw
I go on a number of holidays each year, sometimes for three or four weeks at a time and I really don't see the point in leaving most of my music at home for up to 3 months every year.
You... you... _rich man_!
You must be a lawyer, or maybe a surgeon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
The REASON I oppose it is that when people vote with their wallets by refusing to buy things that they perceive as too expensive, Apple doesn't lower the price, they discontinue the item. Now everyone who thought the 17" MacBook Pro was a good idea but overpriced is screwed.
I don't see how this could ever be a valid point.
Case A: User really wants item and pays whatever the company asks for it
Case B: User actually doesn't really want the item and doesn't pay. User doesn't get to complain that he did not get the item for less
No other case possible.
Also, User can buy outdated old model from hipster (I remember reading a thread here that only hipsters buy the 17'' anyway). If hipster did not sell it already to get a Surface Pro rMBP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) How is SD faster than the on-board NAND Apple uses?
2) When have you ever had on-board NAND fail in an Apple device?
3) Are you then using the SD card to also boot the OS in the scenario?
1) I visually can't tell a difference between my iPad 1 gen and iPad 4... and I know I can't tell the difference between a breathe of a SD10 and NAND format.
2) Funny NASA said that exact same thing about the Challenger. Between my iPad 1, iPad 4, and daughter's iPhone 5, none. But if it does fail, I know I won't be getting the data off before sunrise.
3) Nope, but I can use my trusty SD card on my 5 year old Dell laptop to access what the other OS was supposed to access.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenbw
I go on a number of holidays each year, sometimes for three or four weeks at a time and I really don't see the point in leaving most of my music at home for up to 3 months every year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight
You... you... _rich man_!
You must be a lawyer, or maybe a surgeon.
Ha ha! I wish I was, alas the truth is far more prosaic. I was made redundant, took early retirement and live off a small pension. The advantage is that I can look for bargain holidays and take them whenever I want. 4 weeks on Crete for £575 last May
It's customer like you that keep the other vendors racing to the bottom. If you can't see the difference between 132 and 264 PPI and the performance differences between the 1st and 4th gen iPad then I envy you but that isn't the case with most people that choose Apple's products. They can tell they are made better and work better than the competition. I still hear how Windows is just like Mac OS X, but better, at which point I'm given a bizarre example.
^ I really can't... older age, bad eyes, IDK. As far as a OS system for computers, I use what I grew up with. A Lambo may be the "top drawer" until a Ford F250 is needed.
And one thing you said. "They can tell they are made better and work better than the competition." :Let's take your ipad, mac, or iphone and download random pics and music vs. my Sammy Skyrocket. Without bluteooth, wi-fi or wired, let's see who can get their content to a third party system faster.
These are sustained speeds. The methodology is provided and one test is the number of continuous burst shots in a 30 sec period.
The cards that do 38 MB/s are Class 10 UHS-1 cards and rated at 45 MB/s.
Actually looking at my card I have the cheaper Extreme which is also rated at 45MB/s and is also a class 10 uhs1 card.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007M54E1M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&keywords=San disk extreme class 10&qid=1359602029&s=electronics&sr=1-1
If you look in the comments you can see someone getting close to the rated speed on their mbpr using the black magic speed test.
http://www.amazon.com/review/R317X2ALSY4Q4Z/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0070WU51U&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=
They have cards rated at 95MB/s now.
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-Class-Memory-SDSDXPA-032G-X46/dp/B005LFT3QG/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1359603330&sr=1-1&keywords=sandisk+extreme+pro
This guy is complaining he's only seeing 85MB/s sustained reads
http://www.amazon.com/review/R24SS99PGT1Q6V/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B005LFT3MA&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=
I am betting that when the iPad 5 comes out, (whenever), it will keep the four model that there are currently, (64GB-128GB) but drop them in price $100. That way, the 32GB is now at the $499.00 price point and the 128GB is at the same price point as the 64GB is today. In this senario, the 16GB* replaces the iPad 2 at the low end of the spectrum for full sized iPads.
The other possibility is the same as above, but the 16GB version is the iPad 4.
* Edit: I was rereading my post and noticed that I had put 64 in place of 16.
I don't need an iPhone. I have one because I like it. I'm not pining for one that holds twenty times as much because it doesn't hold my terabytes of media. My iPhone is also three years old. I don't feel a compulsion to get a new one just because.
Let me put it this way: Do you bring everything you own on your trips? You have to leave something behind no matter what, in this case, you'd be leaving something behind that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of having it anyway. During any given trip, how much of the music are you actually going to listen to? For a four week trip, are you actually going to listen to more than 200 hours of audio? And is listening to the same track twice in three weeks really so awful that you desire to take 400 hours of audio, the extra 200 hours of it you're clearly not going to listen to? With the method I described, the tracks on your audio player would be changed out when you get back home to sync, so the next vacation you would be listening to all new audio. So it's not as if the remainder of your library always sits abandoned. It just strikes me as odd that someone would think it's worth replacing a fully functional iPod to carry along 1280 hours of audio instead of "just" 960 hours of audio (160GB at approx. 256kbps). 960 hours is eight and a half weeks of continuous playback without repeats, for every waking hour. Sure, it's your money, but the justification strikes me as insanity when a simple smart playlist simulates the same thing and you'd probably never notice the difference.
You're thinking about it too hard. OK, let's try different words. For class 10, 10MB/s is a guaranteed sustained speed. Generally a card is faster than its class rating, but the card can sustain at least that write speed even in adverse writing circumstances. The class rating isn't an indication of peak speed, and it might even take a sustained speed higher than that. It's a way for a user and device to make sure the card is fast enough for the device's needs and make sure it doesn't mess up a recording because the card choked doing a bit of housekeeping along the way.