People have mentioned "yellow screen" issues on some of the new ones, which aren't always uniform. I'm curious if some of these would go away once the lamination completely sets.
Based on year's past reports of iPhone and iPad displays being shipped from China with yellow displays I'm guessing it will dissipate. Perhaps such a large display will make it easier to notice but I'm personally not worried.
Hmmm, this entire refresh has been badly botched which is such a shame, It's a beautiful machine.
You are being way too kind here. Somebody at Apple needs a whack up side the head over this issue.
Hopefully they will refresh it sometime this year with a retina display so that I can upgrade my 2010 27" iMac.
I'm not sure retina would help the shipping issue. I do wonder what the hold up is this time though. There seems to be an assumption it is the displays but of course we don't know for sure.
Of course, if they screw up the refresh dates again a refresh might not be due until mid/end 2014.
At which point Apple would have lost all respect as far as a desktop computer manufacture goes. Maybe that is what they want, what ever the problem it really doesn't look good for Apple.
A positive way to look at this would be that it is a sign of sales well above projections. I just doubt that is the real issue though.
If you think you know how they should do things then by all means go to Cupertino and demand that Tim Cook do things your way because you are so much smarter than he is, than even Steve was.
You know how I know you're wrong? This sentence above. Desperate and pathetic straw man argument.
Just because he's smart doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes that others may not have made. It also doesn't mean that he should be a CEO instead if being a COO. Lots of great offensive coordinators fail miserably at head coach. Doesn't make them a bad coach.
Bloomberg had video up last week with some analyst saying Tim Cook needs to put Jony Ive on a leash and reign him in when his designs get to crazy. I don't doubt that Ive has a lot of power at Apple but if his team comes up with a design that engineering and operations says will be too difficult to mass produce do we really think he has the power to say 'I don't care figure out a way to do it' and Tim Cook doesn't step in or basically says what ever Jony says goes? I don't buy it.
There's no doubt in my mind this is correct. It's Cook's job to make sure that all the parts of the company are working together to create products apple can sell. Ives job is to be optimistic, Cook's job is to be realistic. Cook is the one failing here.
There's no doubt in my mind this is correct. It's Cook's job to make sure that all the parts of the company are working together to create products apple can sell. Ives job is to be optimistic, Cook's job is to be realistic. Cook is the one failing here.
But none of us know exactly what's causing the delays. Certainly not some Wall Street analyst. Without more information can we really say because of designs that are too ambitious? How do we know its not a QC issue with a display supplier?
Bloomberg had video up last week with some analyst saying Tim Cook needs to put Jony Ive on a leash and reign him in when his designs get to crazy. I don't doubt that Ive has a lot of power at Apple but if his team comes up with a design that engineering and operations says will be too difficult to mass produce do we really think he has the power to say 'I don't care figure out a way to do it' and Tim Cook doesn't step in or basically says what ever Jony says goes? I don't buy it.
Steve said Ive had more power than anyone at the company but the CEO has the highest rank so I'm guessing Steve meant more than than anyone except the CEO. It's kinda obvious why Forstall would never be CEO in that light as that would put him above Ive. This is also not likely to be just Ive's decision - like he sits in a room and one day decides to make something impossibly thin and demands that it happens. These are fantasy scenarios based on the small information that leaks out about the company and the staff.
They probably managed to make the prototypes no problems and ran into yield issues with the process in production. The iMacs have improvements that needed to be made because you can see the glare reduction and it seems to run cooler:
"One other nice feature -- this iMac runs much cooler than the older model. The old unit would get quite hot; a quick reading today showed that it was at 103° F while in display sleep mode doing nothing, while the new unit was a cool 83.4° F."
Contrary to some belief that the slimmer design would make it worse. Once the demand tails off, they'll manage to get the inventory up. It might be an idea for them to build up a more significant supply before announcing the product in future but as we know that risks the product leaks.
You know how I know you're wrong? This sentence above. Desperate and pathetic straw man argument.
Just because he's smart doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes that others may not have made. It also doesn't mean that he should be a CEO instead if being a COO. Lots of great offensive coordinators fail miserably at head coach. Doesn't make them a bad coach.
(Siri dictation mistake)
Just because Cook is not infallible does it mean these iMac supply issues are a result of him messing up the supply chain.
But none of us know exactly what's causing the delays. Certainly not some Wall Street analyst. Without more information can we really say because of designs that are too ambitious? How do we know its not a QC issue with a display supplier?
Also the ceo's job to prevent. If you put all your production eggs into one basket, you pay the price when your designs are too far ahead of their time. CEO bears the blame. Try again.
No, but it's his fault for not making SURE that any production issues were ironed out before the critical holiday season.
And the stock is down 40% because he failed at that. Period.
Really?
1. Apple stock is not down 40% since the Holiday season. How is this failure during the Holiday season responsible for the massive share price decline that had occurred previously?
2. What's your evidence that the share price decline was due to the iMac shipment delays? Every report I've seen says that the concerns about slowing FUTURE growth, particularly for the iPhone.
You might want to search for facts so that you can learn something rather than closing your mind after letting your preconceived notions take over. See above.
No, but it's his fault for not making SURE that any production issues were ironed out before the critical holiday season.
So you think it's better if they kept the old iMacs unchanged through the holidays and then switched it up this quarter putting back plans for large display lamination, friction-stir welding, and whatever other innovations back another 3 months? Do you have any idea what adding a 3 month delay would do to Apple if these techniques that are being mastered for a monumental product release this year if you think that Apple is doomed because a relatively unpopular product the world doesn't care about wasn't able to get a jump on the process last year?
And the stock is down 40% because he failed at that. Period.
You might want to search for facts so that you can learn something rather than closing your mind after letting your preconceived notions take over. See above.
What makes you think you're open minded and I'm not? You just disagree with me. Frankly it's hard to justify the 'stay the course' argument is more open minded than the one I'm suggesting. But if you want to believe that when two people disagree you can claim that the other is closed minded because he won't agree with you, meanwhile you won't agree with him....
You guys are just refuseniks. That's ok. Time will tell who is right. I hope I'm wrong because my wallet will benefit if I am, but I think I'm right.
Now stop being so closed minded in your refusal to agree with me.
What makes you think you're open minded and I'm not? You just disagree with me. Frankly it's hard to justify the 'stay the course' argument is more open minded than the one I'm suggesting. But if you want to believe that when two people disagree you can claim that the other is closed minded because he won't agree with you, meanwhile you won't agree with him....
You guys are just refuseniks. That's ok. Time will tell who is right. I hope I'm wrong because my wallet will benefit if I am, but I think I'm right.
Now stop being so closed minded in your refusal to agree with me.
There's the problem. You think being opened minded is about eventually being proved right. You can create a hypothesis based on known data but if you exclude possibilities simply because they don't fit in with your desired model you are not being open minded.
For instance, you stating Apple's stock is down 40% because of iMac delays in initial holiday shipping and demand far exceeding their shipments is a prime example of you being closed minded as you've removed any and all other possibility for the drop in Apple's stock over the past 18 weeks.
No, but it's his fault for not making SURE that any production issues were ironed out before the critical holiday season.
And the stock is down 40% because he failed at that. Period.
The stock is obviously heavily manipulated. But another reason it's down is Samsung's rise has the investor community spooked. It's as if they think of things as zero sum game and if Samsung wins that means Apple must be losing.
There's no doubt in my mind this is correct. It's Cook's job to make sure that all the parts of the company are working together to create products apple can sell. Ives job is to be optimistic, Cook's job is to be realistic. Cook is the one failing here.
I'd say you are the one that is failing.
Armchair second-guessing is not very convincing when you are talking in generalities like making "sure that all the parts of the company are working together to create products that apple can sell."
With your known ability to be specific over investment questions, I would think you'd want to be more specific on your critique of Cook's control over the production of the new iMacs in three precise areas:
1) the lamination of large display-to-glass screens. Are you sure that their trial production runs revealed all the possible problems among all the suppliers–you know who they are and who supplies their machines, don't you?
2) the plasma coating of large glass surfaces with niobium pentoxide and silicon dioxide. You know of course all about how easy it is to browbeat your suppliers–you know who they are–into coming through on a process they've never done before? Not enough throughput? Just procure more machines, right? So what if they have never been made in this size and quantities before.
3) the friction-stir welding hasn't been talked about as a bottleneck, but of course you are sure that it isn't one because you've checked with all the suppliers and found that things are just humming right along.
In other words, please stop talking down Tim Cook unless you know something. You are FUD mongering here, as you did in an earlier thread where you said you doubted he would be around much longer.
What makes you think you're open minded and I'm not? You just disagree with me.
Wrong. I stated that you're close minded because you jumped to a conclusion that is entirely unsupported by facts and then pronounced that it was the only possible conclusion - without being willing to even consider others.
That's essentially the definition of close minded.
Even close minded people are right some times (although we have no evidence that you're right. In fact, your claim that the stock fell 40% due to the iMac problem is clearly incorrect since most of the fall occurred before the iMac was even announced). But even if you WERE right, it doesn't change the fact that you're close minded.
There's the problem. You think being opened minded is about eventually being proved right. You can create a hypothesis based on known on data but if you exclude possibilities simply because they don't fit in with your desired model you are not being open minded.
For instance, you stating Apple's stock is down 40% because of iMac delays in initial holiday shipping and demand far exceeding their shipments is a prime example of you being closed minded as you've removed any and all other possibility for the drop in Apple's stock over the past 18 weeks.
That's ridiculous. First, stop trying to say what I think. Just stating what you think is sufficient for participating in a debate.
Second. I don't think that the inability to produce iMacs in the last quarter of the year is the only reason for the decline. Stop putting words in my mouth. But I do think that almost all of the reasons for the decline fall eventually on the CEOs desk and cook has done badly at managing them.
Just because you happen to be a pro Apple poster on pro Apple messageboard, you get the feeling that you're right because the majority of people agree with. It's like going into a 49ers bar and listing the 15 reasons that they lost last night which weren't their own fault. You feel great, because lots of people will agree, but that doesn't mean you're right or that your argument is strong.
Oh well, I'm not dumb enough to continue banging my head against the wall with people who clearly have dug into their position unwilling to consider another option. This is not worth my time.
So much for the myth that Tim Cook is a supply chain maven... Has Apple done anything right the last 2 quarters? Everything from its ill advised product dump forward has been a massive FAIL! If CEO Cook can't prove his bone fides in the next 2 quarters he should be dumped as unceremoniously as the iPad Mini, iPad 4, and iMac were all unceremoniously dumped on each other last September.
You have a ridiculously selective recall of past events.
Comments
Based on year's past reports of iPhone and iPad displays being shipped from China with yellow displays I'm guessing it will dissipate. Perhaps such a large display will make it easier to notice but I'm personally not worried.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek
Hmmm, this entire refresh has been badly botched which is such a shame, It's a beautiful machine.
You are being way too kind here. Somebody at Apple needs a whack up side the head over this issue.
Hopefully they will refresh it sometime this year with a retina display so that I can upgrade my 2010 27" iMac.
I'm not sure retina would help the shipping issue. I do wonder what the hold up is this time though. There seems to be an assumption it is the displays but of course we don't know for sure.
Of course, if they screw up the refresh dates again a refresh might not be due until mid/end 2014.
At which point Apple would have lost all respect as far as a desktop computer manufacture goes. Maybe that is what they want, what ever the problem it really doesn't look good for Apple.A positive way to look at this would be that it is a sign of sales well above projections. I just doubt that is the real issue though.
You know how I know you're wrong? This sentence above. Desperate and pathetic straw man argument.
Just because he's smart doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes that others may not have made. It also doesn't mean that he should be a CEO instead if being a COO. Lots of great offensive coordinators fail miserably at head coach. Doesn't make them a bad coach.
(Siri dictation mistake)
Originally Posted by cameronj
You know how I know you're wrong? Your sentence about how you. Desperate and pathetic.
I want to delete this, but it's not an insult yet; there's no grammar.
EDIT: Oh, never mind, then.
There's no doubt in my mind this is correct. It's Cook's job to make sure that all the parts of the company are working together to create products apple can sell. Ives job is to be optimistic, Cook's job is to be realistic. Cook is the one failing here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
There's no doubt in my mind this is correct. It's Cook's job to make sure that all the parts of the company are working together to create products apple can sell. Ives job is to be optimistic, Cook's job is to be realistic. Cook is the one failing here.
But none of us know exactly what's causing the delays. Certainly not some Wall Street analyst. Without more information can we really say because of designs that are too ambitious? How do we know its not a QC issue with a display supplier?
Steve said Ive had more power than anyone at the company but the CEO has the highest rank so I'm guessing Steve meant more than than anyone except the CEO. It's kinda obvious why Forstall would never be CEO in that light as that would put him above Ive. This is also not likely to be just Ive's decision - like he sits in a room and one day decides to make something impossibly thin and demands that it happens. These are fantasy scenarios based on the small information that leaks out about the company and the staff.
They probably managed to make the prototypes no problems and ran into yield issues with the process in production. The iMacs have improvements that needed to be made because you can see the glare reduction and it seems to run cooler:
"One other nice feature -- this iMac runs much cooler than the older model. The old unit would get quite hot; a quick reading today showed that it was at 103° F while in display sleep mode doing nothing, while the new unit was a cool 83.4° F."
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/12/14/fast-quiet-and-skinny-a-quick-look-at-the-new-27-imac-late/
Contrary to some belief that the slimmer design would make it worse. Once the demand tails off, they'll manage to get the inventory up. It might be an idea for them to build up a more significant supply before announcing the product in future but as we know that risks the product leaks.
Just because Cook is not infallible does it mean these iMac supply issues are a result of him messing up the supply chain.
Also the ceo's job to prevent. If you put all your production eggs into one basket, you pay the price when your designs are too far ahead of their time. CEO bears the blame. Try again.
No, but it's his fault for not making SURE that any production issues were ironed out before the critical holiday season.
And the stock is down 40% because he failed at that. Period.
Really?
1. Apple stock is not down 40% since the Holiday season. How is this failure during the Holiday season responsible for the massive share price decline that had occurred previously?
2. What's your evidence that the share price decline was due to the iMac shipment delays? Every report I've seen says that the concerns about slowing FUTURE growth, particularly for the iPhone.
A closed mind gathers no knowledge.
You might want to search for facts so that you can learn something rather than closing your mind after letting your preconceived notions take over. See above.
So you think it's better if they kept the old iMacs unchanged through the holidays and then switched it up this quarter putting back plans for large display lamination, friction-stir welding, and whatever other innovations back another 3 months? Do you have any idea what adding a 3 month delay would do to Apple if these techniques that are being mastered for a monumental product release this year if you think that Apple is doomed because a relatively unpopular product the world doesn't care about wasn't able to get a jump on the process last year?
No it's not.
What makes you think you're open minded and I'm not? You just disagree with me. Frankly it's hard to justify the 'stay the course' argument is more open minded than the one I'm suggesting. But if you want to believe that when two people disagree you can claim that the other is closed minded because he won't agree with you, meanwhile you won't agree with him....
You guys are just refuseniks. That's ok. Time will tell who is right. I hope I'm wrong because my wallet will benefit if I am, but I think I'm right.
Now stop being so closed minded in your refusal to agree with me.
Originally Posted by cameronj
And the stock is down 40% because he failed at that. Period.
lol.
Originally Posted by cameronj
…refusal to agree with me.
Start having evidence and maybe we'll have a reason to.
There's the problem. You think being opened minded is about eventually being proved right. You can create a hypothesis based on known data but if you exclude possibilities simply because they don't fit in with your desired model you are not being open minded.
For instance, you stating Apple's stock is down 40% because of iMac delays in initial holiday shipping and demand far exceeding their shipments is a prime example of you being closed minded as you've removed any and all other possibility for the drop in Apple's stock over the past 18 weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
No, but it's his fault for not making SURE that any production issues were ironed out before the critical holiday season.
And the stock is down 40% because he failed at that. Period.
The stock is obviously heavily manipulated. But another reason it's down is Samsung's rise has the investor community spooked. It's as if they think of things as zero sum game and if Samsung wins that means Apple must be losing.
I'd say you are the one that is failing.
Armchair second-guessing is not very convincing when you are talking in generalities like making "sure that all the parts of the company are working together to create products that apple can sell."
With your known ability to be specific over investment questions, I would think you'd want to be more specific on your critique of Cook's control over the production of the new iMacs in three precise areas:
1) the lamination of large display-to-glass screens. Are you sure that their trial production runs revealed all the possible problems among all the suppliers–you know who they are and who supplies their machines, don't you?
2) the plasma coating of large glass surfaces with niobium pentoxide and silicon dioxide. You know of course all about how easy it is to browbeat your suppliers–you know who they are–into coming through on a process they've never done before? Not enough throughput? Just procure more machines, right? So what if they have never been made in this size and quantities before.
3) the friction-stir welding hasn't been talked about as a bottleneck, but of course you are sure that it isn't one because you've checked with all the suppliers and found that things are just humming right along.
In other words, please stop talking down Tim Cook unless you know something. You are FUD mongering here, as you did in an earlier thread where you said you doubted he would be around much longer.
Wrong. I stated that you're close minded because you jumped to a conclusion that is entirely unsupported by facts and then pronounced that it was the only possible conclusion - without being willing to even consider others.
That's essentially the definition of close minded.
Even close minded people are right some times (although we have no evidence that you're right. In fact, your claim that the stock fell 40% due to the iMac problem is clearly incorrect since most of the fall occurred before the iMac was even announced). But even if you WERE right, it doesn't change the fact that you're close minded.
That's ridiculous. First, stop trying to say what I think. Just stating what you think is sufficient for participating in a debate.
Second. I don't think that the inability to produce iMacs in the last quarter of the year is the only reason for the decline. Stop putting words in my mouth. But I do think that almost all of the reasons for the decline fall eventually on the CEOs desk and cook has done badly at managing them.
Just because you happen to be a pro Apple poster on pro Apple messageboard, you get the feeling that you're right because the majority of people agree with. It's like going into a 49ers bar and listing the 15 reasons that they lost last night which weren't their own fault. You feel great, because lots of people will agree, but that doesn't mean you're right or that your argument is strong.
Oh well, I'm not dumb enough to continue banging my head against the wall with people who clearly have dug into their position unwilling to consider another option. This is not worth my time.
You have a ridiculously selective recall of past events.