Oh well, I'm not dumb enough to continue banging my head against the wall with people who clearly have dug into their position unwilling to consider another option. This is not worth my time.
Well, that's good news, but it doesn't seem you've heard the advice to get specific about the problems if you want to call for the executive to be fired.
That's ridiculous. First, stop trying to say what I think. Just stating what you think is sufficient for participating in a debate.
Second. I don't think that the inability to produce iMacs in the last quarter of the year is the only reason for the decline. Stop putting words in my mouth..
You wrote, "And the stock is down 40% because he failed at that. Period."
I've put no words in your mouth and based on your last reply it's sounding like it would hard for me to get them in their with your foot in the way.
1. Is the same true of Apple's brick and mortar stores is just online
2. Is the issue really supply quality or high demand that is exceeding supply such that Apple wants to under promise so they don't get folks griping because they can't deliver when they said.
1. Yes. Brick and Mortar Apple stores seem to be having the same stock issues as online. You can order them instore, but the wait time is about the same as just ordering online.
2. Yes, it's really because of supply quality. If it were demand exceeding supply, the Mac division wouldn't have seen a double digit drop in sales last quarter.
So the only reason is because of the supply not being of quality? You people have no way of knowing that. It could be a lack of supply in general. It could be a manufacturing process issue which runs a wide gamut. It could something else entirely.
If it were demand exceeding supply, the Mac division wouldn't have seen a double digit drop in sales last quarter.
With a 4 week waiting period the demand is clearly exceeding supply. This cannot be argued! It does not mean it's the cause, as in the demand is much higher than expected, but it is an effect which invalidates any comment that implies demand is not exceeding supply.
Not sure if this is relavent, but I am going balistic hier in Germany: there's a MAJOR Apple hit piece running on ARD, our main network channel here.
They've got the whole thing going on:
Apple is not worth the money; because of no replaceable battery and they make far too much profit; Apple is psychologically addictive; children need therapy against iDevices; China only works for Apple and the workers are all poor because of Apple;
Apple in Germany is lost! I expect sales to go down to 2-5% within the year.
So the only reason is because of the supply not being of quality? You people have no way of knowing that. It could be a lack of supply in general. It could be a manufacturing process issue which runs a wide gamut. It could something else entirely.
With a 4 week waiting period the demand is clearly exceeding supply. This cannot be argued! It does not mean it's the cause, as in the demand is much higher than expected, but it is an effect which invalidates any comment that implies demand is not exceeding supply.
I see Cash's point, in that last quarter's numbers shouldn't have resulted in such a drop of Mac sales if demand were so overwhelming. Clearly, it's a supply issue more than this being an issue of overwhelming demand. But I agree with you that the cause is still not publicly understood (i.e. it's not JUST a "quality issue").
Also, I think it's safe to assume that Apple lost some sales due to lengthy wait times. Consumers don't want to wait 4 weeks for a computer, so some opt to buy something else (who knows, maybe an iPad or very possibly another brand of desktop).
I see Cash's point, in that last quarter's numbers shouldn't have resulted in such a drop of Mac sales if demand were so overwhelming. Clearly, it's a supply issue more than this being an issue of overwhelming demand. But I agree with you that the cause is still not publicly understood (i.e. it's not JUST a "quality issue").
Also, I think it's safe to assume that Apple lost some sales due to lengthy wait times. Consumers don't want to wait 4 weeks for a computer, so some opt to buy something else (who knows, maybe an iPad or very possibly another brand of desktop).
Did you factor in that the day the new iMacs were announced Apple stopped selling the old ones despite many weeks before they would even go on sale?
Check the iPhone sales for its 4th quarter back in Spring 2008. As I remember it there were only 270k sold the entire quarter as they completely shut down production before (or right after) that quarter started to make way for the iPhone 3G. I think they were still selling what they had but it didn't last long.
iMacs were not even an option on their online store. Even the Refurbished section was out until January as I contemplated getting the previous model.
Did you factor in that the day the new iMacs were announced Apple stopped selling the old ones despite many weeks before they would even go on sale?
Check the iPhone sales for its 4th quarter back in Spring 2008. As I remember it there were only 270k sold the entire quarter as they completely shut down production before (or right after) that quarter started to make way for the iPhone 3G. I think they were still selling what they had but it didn't last long.
iMacs were not even an option on their online store. Even the Refurbished section was out until January as I contemplated getting the previous model.
Point taken...in that pent up demand added to supply/demand imbalance. However, pent up demand was not a surprise. I guess the question is more along the lines of how well did Apple predict (pent up) demand and how well did Apple execute supply to meet those demands. There is much anecdotal evidence that points towards quality issues constraining supply, but I'm sure it's more complicated than that (in agreement with you). In CC, I felt that Tim Cook was almost apologetic towards the supply issues...and less exuberant about overwhelming demand as the cause for the imbalance.
Point taken...in that pent up demand added to supply/demand imbalance. However, pent up demand was not a surprise. I guess the question is more along the lines of how well did Apple predict (pent up) demand and how well did Apple execute supply to meet those demands. There is much anecdotal evidence that points towards quality issues constraining supply, but I'm sure it's more complicated than that (in agreement with you). In CC, I felt that Tim Cook was almost apologetic towards the supply issues...and less exuberant about overwhelming demand as the cause for the imbalance.
There is clearly pent up demand which tends to happen whenever an Apple product appears to be at EOL but this is like a perfect storm in that it's a major redesign, they had none shipping for many weeks, and they don't appear to be able to produce as many as the old models. I would wager most of this demand is the effect (as previously stated) but we have no idea what the cause of the initial delay, stopping of the other model, and the slow ramp up.
Yes, one reason for the delay could be that the new iMac is difficult to build in general (e.g. due to the thinness).
But as someone else already suggested, maybe there was one small design flaw, which they have now fixed, but it necessitated a reset of the production line. Hence the new delays actually signal the beginning of the end of the problems.
But I do feel bad for Mac software devs, they need millions of new Macs a year, to sell new licenses. And even those of us who aren't buying an iMac are effected if the software market shrinks.
Is there a chance that Apple pushed he envelope on purpose here? I'm sure they are not happy with not meeting demand so long after release. However, I wonder if they are working toward an Apple TV with many of the style and manufacture elements of the iMac. Maybe they pushed, so they could work out the kinks before going to an even bigger display.
Is there a chance that Apple pushed he envelope on purpose here? I'm sure they are not happy with not meeting demand so long after release. However, I wonder if they are working toward an Apple TV with many of the style and manufacture elements of the iMac. Maybe they pushed, so they could work out the kinks before going to an even bigger display.
Apple is clearly pushing the envelope. The new iMac is undoubtedly difficult to make and involves some new technologies (the screen technology, friction-stir welding, etc). It's not surprising that this computer is difficult to make and will have a significant learning curve.
The only really surprising thing to me is that they stopped selling the old one several months before the new ones were available. The only plausible reason for doing that that I can think of is if there was some major flaw with the old systems and they needed to pull them off the market. But they old systems were well established and I haven't seen any reports of massive amounts of failures, so that doesn't seem to be it. It would have made more sense to keep selling the old one until they had the new one shipping in quantity. I would love to know the reason that they didn't do that.
Hundreds of hit pieces in the US every year. Nothing actually happens to Apple.
It's fine. Only idiots believe that crap anyway.
Yes. I know.
*** However, this particular journalistic mobbing was rather special, because of where it was shown. That is, on our main public channel (ARD). They are technically "publicly owned and politically independent"... repeat: technically. It is by far the most watched, available, and "public opinion forming" channel across the country. Consider them similar to BBC One. They are normally known for some pretty hard-hitting although factual reporting, and do get called out publicly from time to time if they don't show unbiased journalism.
Anyway... the whole charade last night ended up causing quite a stir across Twitter, Facebook, the rest of the media outlets including of course MacWelt, and surprisingly even Die Welt (The World).
If anyone cares (translation by Google): Donnerwetter, das iPhone ersäuft im Bier!
Ein missglücktes Rentnerexperiment, ein absurder Biertest und weggelassene Informationen: "Markencheck Apple" nannte die ARD ihre Auseinandersetzung mit dem Hersteller von iPhone, iPad & Co.
Headline translated by me "Oh My Gawd! The iPhone Drowns in Beer" A failed pensioner experiment, an absurd beer test, and omitted information: "Apple Brand Check" is what ARD called their confrontation with the manufacturer of iPhone, iPad & Co.
*** Just in case anyone is wondering why Germany at the moment is showing such horrible iOS/iPhone activations... and why they are likely to go even lower with this kind of propaganda against them.
Comments
Well, that's good news, but it doesn't seem you've heard the advice to get specific about the problems if you want to call for the executive to be fired.
You wrote, "And the stock is down 40% because he failed at that. Period."
I've put no words in your mouth and based on your last reply it's sounding like it would hard for me to get them in their with your foot in the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Two questions
1. Is the same true of Apple's brick and mortar stores is just online
2. Is the issue really supply quality or high demand that is exceeding supply such that Apple wants to under promise so they don't get folks griping because they can't deliver when they said.
1. Yes. Brick and Mortar Apple stores seem to be having the same stock issues as online. You can order them instore, but the wait time is about the same as just ordering online.
2. Yes, it's really because of supply quality. If it were demand exceeding supply, the Mac division wouldn't have seen a double digit drop in sales last quarter.
So the only reason is because of the supply not being of quality? You people have no way of knowing that. It could be a lack of supply in general. It could be a manufacturing process issue which runs a wide gamut. It could something else entirely.
With a 4 week waiting period the demand is clearly exceeding supply. This cannot be argued! It does not mean it's the cause, as in the demand is much higher than expected, but it is an effect which invalidates any comment that implies demand is not exceeding supply.
They've got the whole thing going on:
Apple is not worth the money; because of no replaceable battery and they make far too much profit;
Apple is psychologically addictive; children need therapy against iDevices;
China only works for Apple and the workers are all poor because of Apple;
Apple in Germany is lost! I expect sales to go down to 2-5% within the year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Bloomberg had video up last week with some analyst saying Tim Cook needs to put Jony Ive on a leash and reign him in when his designs get to crazy.
Yeah, and that guy is passed off BB as some king Apple/tech expert. I've seen him interviewed a few times, and all I've heard is hot air.
PS: 'Rein him in....' :-)
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
They've got the whole thing going on:
Apple is not worth the money; because of no replaceable battery and they make far too much profit;
Apple is psychologically addictive; children need therapy against iDevices;
China only works for Apple and the workers are all poor because of Apple;
Apple in Germany is lost! I expect sales to go down to 2-5% within the year.
Hundreds of hit pieces in the US every year. Nothing actually happens to Apple.
It's fine. Only idiots believe that crap anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So the only reason is because of the supply not being of quality? You people have no way of knowing that. It could be a lack of supply in general. It could be a manufacturing process issue which runs a wide gamut. It could something else entirely.
With a 4 week waiting period the demand is clearly exceeding supply. This cannot be argued! It does not mean it's the cause, as in the demand is much higher than expected, but it is an effect which invalidates any comment that implies demand is not exceeding supply.
I see Cash's point, in that last quarter's numbers shouldn't have resulted in such a drop of Mac sales if demand were so overwhelming. Clearly, it's a supply issue more than this being an issue of overwhelming demand. But I agree with you that the cause is still not publicly understood (i.e. it's not JUST a "quality issue").
Also, I think it's safe to assume that Apple lost some sales due to lengthy wait times. Consumers don't want to wait 4 weeks for a computer, so some opt to buy something else (who knows, maybe an iPad or very possibly another brand of desktop).
Did you factor in that the day the new iMacs were announced Apple stopped selling the old ones despite many weeks before they would even go on sale?
Check the iPhone sales for its 4th quarter back in Spring 2008. As I remember it there were only 270k sold the entire quarter as they completely shut down production before (or right after) that quarter started to make way for the iPhone 3G. I think they were still selling what they had but it didn't last long.
iMacs were not even an option on their online store. Even the Refurbished section was out until January as I contemplated getting the previous model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Did you factor in that the day the new iMacs were announced Apple stopped selling the old ones despite many weeks before they would even go on sale?
Check the iPhone sales for its 4th quarter back in Spring 2008. As I remember it there were only 270k sold the entire quarter as they completely shut down production before (or right after) that quarter started to make way for the iPhone 3G. I think they were still selling what they had but it didn't last long.
iMacs were not even an option on their online store. Even the Refurbished section was out until January as I contemplated getting the previous model.
Point taken...in that pent up demand added to supply/demand imbalance. However, pent up demand was not a surprise. I guess the question is more along the lines of how well did Apple predict (pent up) demand and how well did Apple execute supply to meet those demands. There is much anecdotal evidence that points towards quality issues constraining supply, but I'm sure it's more complicated than that (in agreement with you). In CC, I felt that Tim Cook was almost apologetic towards the supply issues...and less exuberant about overwhelming demand as the cause for the imbalance.
There is clearly pent up demand which tends to happen whenever an Apple product appears to be at EOL but this is like a perfect storm in that it's a major redesign, they had none shipping for many weeks, and they don't appear to be able to produce as many as the old models. I would wager most of this demand is the effect (as previously stated) but we have no idea what the cause of the initial delay, stopping of the other model, and the slow ramp up.
Yes, one reason for the delay could be that the new iMac is difficult to build in general (e.g. due to the thinness).
But as someone else already suggested, maybe there was one small design flaw, which they have now fixed, but it necessitated a reset of the production line. Hence the new delays actually signal the beginning of the end of the problems.
But I do feel bad for Mac software devs, they need millions of new Macs a year, to sell new licenses. And even those of us who aren't buying an iMac are effected if the software market shrinks.
Apple is clearly pushing the envelope. The new iMac is undoubtedly difficult to make and involves some new technologies (the screen technology, friction-stir welding, etc). It's not surprising that this computer is difficult to make and will have a significant learning curve.
The only really surprising thing to me is that they stopped selling the old one several months before the new ones were available. The only plausible reason for doing that that I can think of is if there was some major flaw with the old systems and they needed to pull them off the market. But they old systems were well established and I haven't seen any reports of massive amounts of failures, so that doesn't seem to be it. It would have made more sense to keep selling the old one until they had the new one shipping in quantity. I would love to know the reason that they didn't do that.
Yes. I know.
*** However, this particular journalistic mobbing was rather special, because of where it was shown. That is, on our main public channel (ARD). They are technically "publicly owned and politically independent"... repeat: technically. It is by far the most watched, available, and "public opinion forming" channel across the country. Consider them similar to BBC One. They are normally known for some pretty hard-hitting although factual reporting, and do get called out publicly from time to time if they don't show unbiased journalism.
Anyway... the whole charade last night ended up causing quite a stir across Twitter, Facebook, the rest of the media outlets including of course MacWelt, and surprisingly even Die Welt (The World).
If anyone cares (translation by Google):
Donnerwetter, das iPhone ersäuft im Bier!
Ein missglücktes Rentnerexperiment, ein absurder Biertest und weggelassene Informationen: "Markencheck Apple" nannte die ARD ihre Auseinandersetzung mit dem Hersteller von iPhone, iPad & Co.
Headline translated by me
"Oh My Gawd! The iPhone Drowns in Beer"
A failed pensioner experiment, an absurd beer test, and omitted information: "Apple Brand Check" is what ARD called their confrontation with the manufacturer of iPhone, iPad & Co.
*** Just in case anyone is wondering why Germany at the moment is showing such horrible iOS/iPhone activations... and why they are likely to go even lower with this kind of propaganda against them.