We are getting to a point where PCs are starting to stagnent people need to upgrade their computer less and less while at the same time the tablet market is still developing. Most of the computers sold today will be working just fine and do the major thing required of them internet browsing and word processing (if they are properly maintained). We don't have to worry. A tablet purchased from apple today will be far obsolete in that five year span it may not even be usable with most of the apps released. People replace a computer every 3-5 years, a tablet every 1-3 years. That is the reason that the PC sells are slowing the tablet sales are raising.
A tablet is a computer no? It's your personal computer.
While one can argue that it may not run this or that software or that a particular person can or cannot use it to replace whatever it is they use their personal computer for, it's pretty certain that it *is* a "personal computer" and that it *can* actually do anything that a laptop or a desktop computer can do.
Where do you draw the line then? What can an iPad do that an iPhone can't? They both run the same OS and run on near identical hardware. Would you include smartphones then?
My Kindle is a computer and it's personal. Using your definition, why not include that too?
That sound pretty dumb to me. Including anything other than traditional (i.e. desktop & laptop) PCs in these metrics makes them worthless. Even Apple doesn't believe that the iPad is a PC.
We are getting to a point where PCs are starting to stagnent people need to upgrade their computer less and less while at the same time the tablet market is still developing. Most of the computers sold today will be working just fine and do the major thing required of them internet browsing and word processing (if they are properly maintained). We don't have to worry. A tablet purchased from apple today will be far obsolete in that five year span it may not even be usable with most of the apps released. People replace a computer every 3-5 years, a tablet every 1-3 years. That is the reason that the PC sells are slowing the tablet sales are raising.
Not sure if I get your point, but yes, tablets are generally evolving more quickly than desktop PCs, because mobile personal computing is the new cutting edge in personal computing.
This change is about wireless, shrinking silicon, solid state memory, battery technology, and now touchscreen for input.
Laptops and tablets are the new PCs. Plugged-in stationary PCs have plateaued. The personal computer now goes everywhere with us. There is pressure to make this a better experience as quickly as possible.
How can the tablet not be seen as just the latest evolution of the PC?
But notice that Apple is still seriously working on making desktops better, and a better experience. The new iMacs are revolutionary in a couple of ways. The new versions of the cinema displays are going to be amazing, and maybe the Pro as well.
Where do you draw the line then? What can an iPad do that an iPhone can't? They both run the same OS and run on near identical hardware. Would you include smartphones then?
My Kindle is a computer and it's personal. Using your definition, why not include that too?
That sound pretty dumb to me. Including anything other than traditional (i.e. desktop & laptop) PCs in these metrics makes them worthless. Even Apple doesn't believe that the iPad is a PC.
Here Steve Jobs is drawing a distinction between desktop thinking and mobile thinking. PC versus post-PC, in other words. If he were in this discussion right now, I suppose we'd have to modify the angle of the story to reflect his distinction: "Apple grabs more that 20 percent of global computer market."
Anyway, he is solving your dilemma for you. Yes, you have to consider the iPhone, the iPod, and even the lowly e-reader as personal computers. Apple's market share in computing is probably more than 20 percent from this point of view.
So these metrics probably are worthless, like you say, but interesting on a slow news day like this one.
This is again, a completely unsupportable assumption on your part.
In fact, Netbooks and Chromebooks are by almost any definition just laptops, not "alternatives to laptops."
Also, the figures show that tablets are being used for exactly that (alternatives to laptops). They are also being used as alternatives to desktops.
These are facts, supported by both the sales figures and by the specific description of those that are buying them, whereas your assertions seem to be coming from .... ?
Your statement simply supports my conclusions.
Netbooks and Chromebooks should be included in the PC numbers because they're laptops. Tablets are not.
When they lump tablets with PCs, they should call the group "computing devices" not PCs.
No one knows what the future holds. Android might overtake iOS -or might not- but if it does it sure is taking them longer than they did with smartphones. The tablet market -so far- doesn't like like a replay of the smartphone market. It is not the iPod market either, but the iPad will hold on to the lead for so long that it will become so entrenched it wont even matter if it ends up getting outsold eventually.
Are resellers considered customers for the purpose of Apple's sales figures?
I don't think so. On several occasions I have heard Apple report that it counts only actual sales to individuals as sales. For its own stores that would be easy to do. I am unsure how it would handle counting actual sales to individuals through resellers, but that is what I thought Apple was claiming.
Samsung reports how many units its ships into the retail channel. Apple reports how many units are sold to customers. The difference is clear. When Samsung first started selling its Galaxy Tablet it told the world it shipped several million. However, through court filings it turns out actual customers only bought about a 100, 000 thousand of them.
So Samsung's numbers include units in transit, sitting on store shelves, and in the warehouse. Apple's only include units actual sold to customers. Samsung's method is the more common method of reporting, but I think it fraudulent because the ship number is generally much higher then the sold number and companies use a high ship number to make people think a product is selling well that sometimes is really not. Apple's method is straight forward.
After Samsung reported earnings people compared Samsung's ship numbers to Apple's sold numbers and made comparison even though Samsung's numbers don't really tell how many units are sold to individual customers.
Basically it does not matter to stock market. Sale number is information. Which is either you pay for it or you count it yourself.
Samsung's stock is not trade directly in US. So they don't care how many exactly they sell.
Apple is dominant smart phone OEM so retailer have to provide information to Apple. I think Apple maybe ask them to give it up the number daily is part of their contract. Same retailer might not agree to Samsung in same passion. Why? they can only sell iPhone without any problem even they don't carry Samsung phone. But if they don't carry iPhone, problem is big.
This was same in telephone provider like Verizon, AT&T. Always telephone provider is dominant roll in the past.
They are 500 pound gorilla in the room.
When Apple produce iPhone, that changed. those 500 pound gorilla became puppy and wiggle the tail to Apple.
So Apple can get sale information when ever they want.
Samsung, they have to bagging those 500 pound gorilla to carry their phone. Do what ever they asked to do.
That is why you don't see any Verizon app in iPhone but Samsung smart phone has them.
We are getting to a point where PCs are starting to stagnent people need to upgrade their computer less and less while at the same time the tablet market is still developing. Most of the computers sold today will be working just fine and do the major thing required of them internet browsing and word processing (if they are properly maintained). We don't have to worry. A tablet purchased from apple today will be far obsolete in that five year span it may not even be usable with most of the apps released. People replace a computer every 3-5 years, a tablet every 1-3 years. That is the reason that the PC sells are slowing the tablet sales are raising.
The iPad will be working in 5 yrs too. Just like the ipod didnt stop working after 5 yrs. It's funny you say PCs will be fine doing browsing and word proc. the former is the appeal of an iPad. The apps on the iPad won't stop working all of a sudden. You may not be able to upgrade them after 3 yrs but that doesn't mean u can't use them. You forget Apple supports the last 2 gens of devices in addition to the current gen.
You may be thinking of Android in which you may receive an update but you'll probably be stuck on the version it shipped with.
And can you source that "real reason". Chances are you are full of BS. And if people are replacing iPads yearly, why are they outselling the prev yrs numbers? I guess they each buy two "replacements".
The iPad will be working in 5 yrs too. Just like the ipod didnt stop working after 5 yrs. It's funny you say PCs will be fine doing browsing and word proc. the former is the appeal of an iPad. The apps on the iPad won't stop working all of a sudden. You may not be able to upgrade them after 3 yrs but that doesn't mean u can't use them. You forget Apple supports the last 2 gens of devices in addition to the current gen.
You may be thinking of Android in which you may receive an update but you'll probably be stuck on the version it shipped with.
And can you source that "real reason". Chances are you are full of BS. And if people are replacing iPads yearly, why are they outselling the prev yrs numbers? I guess they each buy two "replacements".
Yes. You are right.. However some new apps will not work with old iPad, iPhone, etc..
Also other then Apple, android update might relay on actual pad OEM. They might not upgrade all version of pad they sold.
So unless you are computer savy, you might stuck on old version of android.
Since pad price around $500 or less(I am not talking about high end spec pad..) most of people might not care replace them when it release new one.
They still can sell old one through ebay, craglist, etc...
However PC(desktop, laptop) is little different story.. Their hardware specs are already pass the human demand unless you are hard core gamer.
When SSD introduced, PC works like almost same as pad. Almost instant booting, very easy to computing.
Little like adding more memory can resolve lots of performance issue. SSD? Oh yeah..
So there is not much reason you need to replace PC. Because you can boost the performance by spending less than $300.(SSD+more RAM)
Even CPU, you can upgrade most of PC(some of them are too thin so CPU was solder to motherboard) as long as socket is compatible.
Pad? You can't upgrade anything. You have to buy new one..
Anyway, price is the point. laptop is big even 11" Air compare to iPad. Price for Air, you can buy iPad & iPad mini.
Most of people does not perform video editing, converting movie, hard core game, etc like require PC specs.
That is the reason iTunes sales for movie, music...If it is cheap enough people rather pay for it then spending time.
Oh.. one more thing. When iPad mini introduced lot of people who had iPad(big brother) also bought it.. Because either it is little pretty thing or big brother iPad is too heavy and so on...
We are getting to a point where PCs are starting to stagnent people need to upgrade their computer less and less while at the same time the tablet market is still developing. Most of the computers sold today will be working just fine and do the major thing required of them internet browsing and word processing (if they are properly maintained). We don't have to worry. A tablet purchased from apple today will be far obsolete in that five year span it may not even be usable with most of the apps released. People replace a computer every 3-5 years, a tablet every 1-3 years. That is the reason that the PC sells are slowing the tablet sales are raising.
Not to sound snooty or anything (English is not my first language, yet I make an effort!), but you have your own blog?
Samsung reports how many units its ships into the retail channel. Apple reports how many units are sold to customers.
As has been pointed out to you before, by more than one person, that is incorrect.
Samsung reports how many units have been sold and delivered to retailers.
Apple reports:
how many units have been sold to retailers (starting from the moment they're shipped), and
units delivered to end users from its own Apple stores online or brick.
The difference is clear. When Samsung first started selling its Galaxy Tablet it told the world it shipped several million. However, through court filings it turns out actual customers only bought about a 100, 000 thousand of them.
Note that the court filings were only about US sales. However, yes, stores got too excited and ordered too many, and it took longer than expected to sell their inventory to end users. This was evident from hugely dropped sales the next quarter or so. (Something that hasn't happened since.)
So Samsung's numbers include units in transit, sitting on store shelves, and in the warehouse. Apple's only include units actual sold to customers.
No. See above. Samsung's numbers do NOT include units in transit, but do include units sitting in retailer store shelves and in warehouses.
Apple's numbers include Apple store sales, plus units in transit to retailers, units sitting on retailer shelves and in warehouses.
Quote:
Samsung's method is the more common method of reporting, but I think it fraudulent because the ship number is generally much higher then the sold number and companies use a high ship number to make people think a product is selling well that sometimes is really not. Apple's method is straight forward.
Just last year, Apple twice reported more sales (shipments) in a quarter than there ended up being actual end user purchases. By millions.
Each time, this was brought out in the next quarterly earnings call, where Tim Cook would explain that stores had stocked up too much inventory the previous quarter, and that's why sales were down more than expected in the current quarter.
It happens to everyone. No big deal, most of the time. The units eventually get sold.
You must be new here. Let me help you understand the local mythology so you don't get branded a "witch" (or worse, "troll"):
The common belief here, however fanciful it may seem to the outside world, is that Apple is somehow the only company in the world with the resources to visit every customer's home to count iDevices, while all other companies rely on numbers of units that leave their plant, after which they're all sent to some mysterious giant warehouse since of course no one actually buys anything but Apple products.
Don't you get it? This common meme here is so logical how could reality be any different?
"Google/Samgung/Microsoft/Nokia/OtherEnemyDuJour must be paying you to post that!"
Stop thinking different.
Here's what you don't get: the iPhone sells out while you can pick up almost any other phone at any given time very easily.
Shouldn't that be 20% of the sales for given period? Unless of course "market share" does not include any device ever sold in the prior history of the universe outside of the period being reported.
Yes it should.
But it doesn't sound as dominant as 'market share'.
Which is why despite all MS' issues, lack of sales from partners, etc..., they are still the dominant OS on PCs...
Comments
We are getting to a point where PCs are starting to stagnent people need to upgrade their computer less and less while at the same time the tablet market is still developing. Most of the computers sold today will be working just fine and do the major thing required of them internet browsing and word processing (if they are properly maintained). We don't have to worry. A tablet purchased from apple today will be far obsolete in that five year span it may not even be usable with most of the apps released. People replace a computer every 3-5 years, a tablet every 1-3 years. That is the reason that the PC sells are slowing the tablet sales are raising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
"PC" == "Personal Computer"
A tablet is a computer no? It's your personal computer.
While one can argue that it may not run this or that software or that a particular person can or cannot use it to replace whatever it is they use their personal computer for, it's pretty certain that it *is* a "personal computer" and that it *can* actually do anything that a laptop or a desktop computer can do.
Where do you draw the line then? What can an iPad do that an iPhone can't? They both run the same OS and run on near identical hardware. Would you include smartphones then?
My Kindle is a computer and it's personal. Using your definition, why not include that too?
That sound pretty dumb to me. Including anything other than traditional (i.e. desktop & laptop) PCs in these metrics makes them worthless. Even Apple doesn't believe that the iPad is a PC.
Not sure if I get your point, but yes, tablets are generally evolving more quickly than desktop PCs, because mobile personal computing is the new cutting edge in personal computing.
This change is about wireless, shrinking silicon, solid state memory, battery technology, and now touchscreen for input.
Laptops and tablets are the new PCs. Plugged-in stationary PCs have plateaued. The personal computer now goes everywhere with us. There is pressure to make this a better experience as quickly as possible.
How can the tablet not be seen as just the latest evolution of the PC?
But notice that Apple is still seriously working on making desktops better, and a better experience. The new iMacs are revolutionary in a couple of ways. The new versions of the cinema displays are going to be amazing, and maybe the Pro as well.
Here Steve Jobs is drawing a distinction between desktop thinking and mobile thinking. PC versus post-PC, in other words. If he were in this discussion right now, I suppose we'd have to modify the angle of the story to reflect his distinction: "Apple grabs more that 20 percent of global computer market."
Anyway, he is solving your dilemma for you. Yes, you have to consider the iPhone, the iPod, and even the lowly e-reader as personal computers. Apple's market share in computing is probably more than 20 percent from this point of view.
So these metrics probably are worthless, like you say, but interesting on a slow news day like this one.
Your statement simply supports my conclusions.
Netbooks and Chromebooks should be included in the PC numbers because they're laptops. Tablets are not.
When they lump tablets with PCs, they should call the group "computing devices" not PCs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
They made it up. Just like all the other numbers they use for Android products.
don't they use units shipped vs units sold to end users?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Are resellers considered customers for the purpose of Apple's sales figures?
I don't think so. On several occasions I have heard Apple report that it counts only actual sales to individuals as sales. For its own stores that would be easy to do. I am unsure how it would handle counting actual sales to individuals through resellers, but that is what I thought Apple was claiming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Samsung reports how many units its ships into the retail channel. Apple reports how many units are sold to customers. The difference is clear. When Samsung first started selling its Galaxy Tablet it told the world it shipped several million. However, through court filings it turns out actual customers only bought about a 100, 000 thousand of them.
So Samsung's numbers include units in transit, sitting on store shelves, and in the warehouse. Apple's only include units actual sold to customers. Samsung's method is the more common method of reporting, but I think it fraudulent because the ship number is generally much higher then the sold number and companies use a high ship number to make people think a product is selling well that sometimes is really not. Apple's method is straight forward.
After Samsung reported earnings people compared Samsung's ship numbers to Apple's sold numbers and made comparison even though Samsung's numbers don't really tell how many units are sold to individual customers.
Basically it does not matter to stock market. Sale number is information. Which is either you pay for it or you count it yourself.
Samsung's stock is not trade directly in US. So they don't care how many exactly they sell.
Apple is dominant smart phone OEM so retailer have to provide information to Apple. I think Apple maybe ask them to give it up the number daily is part of their contract. Same retailer might not agree to Samsung in same passion. Why? they can only sell iPhone without any problem even they don't carry Samsung phone. But if they don't carry iPhone, problem is big.
This was same in telephone provider like Verizon, AT&T. Always telephone provider is dominant roll in the past.
They are 500 pound gorilla in the room.
When Apple produce iPhone, that changed. those 500 pound gorilla became puppy and wiggle the tail to Apple.
So Apple can get sale information when ever they want.
Samsung, they have to bagging those 500 pound gorilla to carry their phone. Do what ever they asked to do.
That is why you don't see any Verizon app in iPhone but Samsung smart phone has them.
The iPad will be working in 5 yrs too. Just like the ipod didnt stop working after 5 yrs. It's funny you say PCs will be fine doing browsing and word proc. the former is the appeal of an iPad. The apps on the iPad won't stop working all of a sudden. You may not be able to upgrade them after 3 yrs but that doesn't mean u can't use them. You forget Apple supports the last 2 gens of devices in addition to the current gen.
You may be thinking of Android in which you may receive an update but you'll probably be stuck on the version it shipped with.
And can you source that "real reason". Chances are you are full of BS. And if people are replacing iPads yearly, why are they outselling the prev yrs numbers? I guess they each buy two "replacements".
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
The iPad will be working in 5 yrs too. Just like the ipod didnt stop working after 5 yrs. It's funny you say PCs will be fine doing browsing and word proc. the former is the appeal of an iPad. The apps on the iPad won't stop working all of a sudden. You may not be able to upgrade them after 3 yrs but that doesn't mean u can't use them. You forget Apple supports the last 2 gens of devices in addition to the current gen.
You may be thinking of Android in which you may receive an update but you'll probably be stuck on the version it shipped with.
And can you source that "real reason". Chances are you are full of BS. And if people are replacing iPads yearly, why are they outselling the prev yrs numbers? I guess they each buy two "replacements".
Yes. You are right.. However some new apps will not work with old iPad, iPhone, etc..
Also other then Apple, android update might relay on actual pad OEM. They might not upgrade all version of pad they sold.
So unless you are computer savy, you might stuck on old version of android.
Since pad price around $500 or less(I am not talking about high end spec pad..) most of people might not care replace them when it release new one.
They still can sell old one through ebay, craglist, etc...
However PC(desktop, laptop) is little different story.. Their hardware specs are already pass the human demand unless you are hard core gamer.
When SSD introduced, PC works like almost same as pad. Almost instant booting, very easy to computing.
Little like adding more memory can resolve lots of performance issue. SSD? Oh yeah..
So there is not much reason you need to replace PC. Because you can boost the performance by spending less than $300.(SSD+more RAM)
Even CPU, you can upgrade most of PC(some of them are too thin so CPU was solder to motherboard) as long as socket is compatible.
Pad? You can't upgrade anything. You have to buy new one..
Anyway, price is the point. laptop is big even 11" Air compare to iPad. Price for Air, you can buy iPad & iPad mini.
Most of people does not perform video editing, converting movie, hard core game, etc like require PC specs.
That is the reason iTunes sales for movie, music...If it is cheap enough people rather pay for it then spending time.
Oh.. one more thing. When iPad mini introduced lot of people who had iPad(big brother) also bought it.. Because either it is little pretty thing or big brother iPad is too heavy and so on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung
We are getting to a point where PCs are starting to stagnent people need to upgrade their computer less and less while at the same time the tablet market is still developing. Most of the computers sold today will be working just fine and do the major thing required of them internet browsing and word processing (if they are properly maintained). We don't have to worry. A tablet purchased from apple today will be far obsolete in that five year span it may not even be usable with most of the apps released. People replace a computer every 3-5 years, a tablet every 1-3 years. That is the reason that the PC sells are slowing the tablet sales are raising.
Not to sound snooty or anything (English is not my first language, yet I make an effort!), but you have your own blog?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmc54
don't they use units shipped vs units sold to end users?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Samsung reports how many units its ships into the retail channel. Apple reports how many units are sold to customers.
As has been pointed out to you before, by more than one person, that is incorrect.
Samsung reports how many units have been sold and delivered to retailers.
Apple reports:
how many units have been sold to retailers (starting from the moment they're shipped), and
units delivered to end users from its own Apple stores online or brick.
The difference is clear. When Samsung first started selling its Galaxy Tablet it told the world it shipped several million. However, through court filings it turns out actual customers only bought about a 100, 000 thousand of them.
Note that the court filings were only about US sales. However, yes, stores got too excited and ordered too many, and it took longer than expected to sell their inventory to end users. This was evident from hugely dropped sales the next quarter or so. (Something that hasn't happened since.)
So Samsung's numbers include units in transit, sitting on store shelves, and in the warehouse. Apple's only include units actual sold to customers.
No. See above. Samsung's numbers do NOT include units in transit, but do include units sitting in retailer store shelves and in warehouses.
Apple's numbers include Apple store sales, plus units in transit to retailers, units sitting on retailer shelves and in warehouses.
Quote:
Samsung's method is the more common method of reporting, but I think it fraudulent because the ship number is generally much higher then the sold number and companies use a high ship number to make people think a product is selling well that sometimes is really not. Apple's method is straight forward.
Just last year, Apple twice reported more sales (shipments) in a quarter than there ended up being actual end user purchases. By millions.
Each time, this was brought out in the next quarterly earnings call, where Tim Cook would explain that stores had stocked up too much inventory the previous quarter, and that's why sales were down more than expected in the current quarter.
It happens to everyone. No big deal, most of the time. The units eventually get sold.
deleted
Not to sound snooty or anything, but you don't have your own blog?
Here's what you don't get: the iPhone sells out while you can pick up almost any other phone at any given time very easily.
deleted
Originally Posted by MacRulez
So much for Tim Cook being a master of the supply chain...
Talk about your spin!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
Shouldn't that be 20% of the sales for given period? Unless of course "market share" does not include any device ever sold in the prior history of the universe outside of the period being reported.
Yes it should.
But it doesn't sound as dominant as 'market share'.
Which is why despite all MS' issues, lack of sales from partners, etc..., they are still the dominant OS on PCs...