I have the high end 11" MBA from mid 2011, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't trade it for a Surface Pro, (or top of the line iPad, for that matter.)
That said, you CAN compare a Surface Pro to an iPad or MBA, and those comparisons are going to yield different strength/weakness tables. I think it will be interesting to see what people do with it, and if perhaps there isn't a use case that it hits on the head.
Some people might use Win 8 apps and want a device that can travel with them, but also want to use it as a consumption device for lounging around the living room. How many people are they?
Not too many, I wouldn't think, but we'll see where the sales go to confirm what we all suspect (and "dismal" is probably the best word to describe that suspicion.) Even so, it would be irrational to say that this device doesn't do a lot of things an iPad can't, and if it isn't exactly an MBA killer, it does at least have the advantage of being compatible with Win 8 apps.
After all the hype of Microsoft aiming the surface as a 'professional tablet' and slamming the iPad, it seems odd to now use the MacBook Air as a comparison. Is the Surface a tablet or not? I think not... it's a laptop that doesn't come with a keyboard and can't be used on your lap...
The Surface Pro tries to be a competitor against both MacBook Air and iPad, and it fails against each in a different set of ways. Arguing that it's storage use is comparable to the Air doesn't make it a good laptop.
Agreed. For a tablet, it has ridiculously bad battery life and is way too clunky/heavy. For a laptop, it can't even be used on an actual lap and has a flimsy, inferior keyboard and trackpad. The storage issue is far from the primary reason why the Surface is just not a good product.
"Consumers are happy that OSX is an entertainment delivery system. That's why they're buying more Apple computers and less Windows PCs."
OSX is way more than an entertainment delivery system, just ask all those NASA engineers. If OSX is fine for a range of people from consumers to NASA engineers, just who are they leaving out?
I have a MacBook Air and and MacBook Pro along with two other Macs and three iPads. When I touch the screen on any OS X computer nothing happens. Forget the comments about screen angle, battery life, etc.
I appreciate the comments but there are differences and Apple needs to put touch in OS X at some point.
They promoted this with iOS and customers expect it.
How many times have you seen a 4 year old touch the screen on a MacBook computer (any model). Apple needs to let the 4 years olds guide them.
True, both cram a desktop OS into 64 GB, leaving enough storage for most people's needs EXCEPT for music/photo libraries.
However...
The Air has a real keyboard (typing tests on both Surface covers have shown it to fall short). Backlit no less.
The Air has MUCH longer battery life.
The Air doesn't try to cram two totally different platforms into one confusing mess.
The Air's screen angle is adjustable.
The Air has OS X and the iTunes store.
The Air has a much bigger and better trackpad.
The Air is a good laptop. Not a poor laptop combined with a poor tablet.
But if you consider the Surface Pro to be a tablet (after all, the keyboard/trackpad isn't even included in the price, it's optional) then you'll be comparing its free space to the iPad, not the Air.
P.S. My 128 GB Air is not a companion--it's a full professional production machine for Photoshop, programming, office tasks, everything. It can drive a big external display and its storage is unlimited when I'm at home (external drives). I chose less internal storage to save money: SSD is well worth the performance, but it costs more per GB. If I saved even more money and got a 64GB, I'd use my Air for all the same things... but I'd rely a bit more on cheap, high GB Western Digital pocket hard drive beside it.
P.P.S. The Air has a recovery partition too--and you can delete it for more space (less than a GB).
You forgot that the MacBookAir has Thunderbolt so you have a LOT of options to add, Sonnex ext PCI card expansion chassis, etc.
So ... let's add up the score for the great MS Windows 8 2012-13 campaign:
Windows 8 OS: being avoided - a flop - with PC sales nose diving.
Windows Phone 8: disappointing despite Nokia's all-in commitment, and going nowhere fast.
Surface RT: a total fail.
Surface Pro: a big flop, for fans only.
compared to Apple's 2012:
OSX 10.8 Mountain Lion: popular, with Mac sales increasing modestly.
iPhone 6: a huge hit.
iPad (5): a big hit
iPad Mini: a huge hit
so which company does Wall Street and the pundits declare to be in deep trouble? yeah, you guessed it ...
but when it comes to MS, they like their strategy. they like it a lot.
And when they can't get that many users to buy their OS upgrade, what does Microsoft do? RAISE THE PRICE so they can make their sales targets.
$200 for Window 8 Pro. I'm glad I don't work for a computer reseller selling to corporate and government accounts. I don't think I could look a customer in the eye without laughing at the price for Windows 8 Pro licensing. Knowing my former accounts, they probably would have a difficult time requesting it without laughing too....
I have a MacBook Air and and MacBook Pro along with two other Macs and three iPads. When I touch the screen on any OS X computer nothing happens. Forget the comments about screen angle, battery life, etc.
I appreciate the comments but there are differences and Apple needs to put touch in OS X at some point.
They promoted this with iOS and customers expect it.
How many times have you seen a 4 year old touch the screen on a MacBook computer (any model). Apple needs to let the 4 years olds guide them.
It would be a great workout raising your arms and leaning over to actually touch the screen. My iMac is too far away from me to make it plausible to use it as a touch screen. Plus, I would hate to constantly break out the glass cleaner every day. I'll stick to the trackpad and gesture mouse, thank you very much.
I am wondering what they will bring over from OS X to iOS and visa versa. This next release of OS X and iOS is going to be VERY interesting to see what Ive and Federighi come up with.
While Mr. Bott's comparison of the Surface Pro to the MacBook Air is fair of itself, it is spurious if it is an attempt to defuse the controversy about usable disk space on the 64GB Surface model. Obviously the bigger the storage space, the less important is the amount of space used by the system. No brainer. But Mr. Bott wants to treat the Surface Pro as a full featured laptop that should be compared only to another full featured laptop, both with the same storage capacity. Well I'm fine with that because in doing so, he effectively acknowledges that the 64GB model is neither a tablet nor a capable laptop.
How many times have you seen a 4 year old touch the screen on a MacBook computer (any model). Apple needs to let the 4 years olds guide them.
Who gives a crap about any four year olds? Give them an iPad, and that'll keep 'em quiet for a while. iPads are appliances that even apes can use and the OS is dumbed down on purpose.
I'm sure glad that OS X is not touch, because I'd hate to be lifting my arms up and around to navigate the 27" monitor that is in front of me at the moment. I use a Magic Trackpad and that's plenty enough touch for me as far as OS X is concerned. I'd also hate to be using all of my non-touch apps and trying to use those with a touch screen. I'd also hate to see everything blown up size wise as to accommodate a touch screen OS. Pros who have work to do don't have time to mess around with any OS that has to be dumbed down in order to implement touch.
As great as I think that my iPad is, I'm not exactly wishing for a touch screen when I'm using OS X, quite the contrary. That probably has something to do with the fact that OS X was never designed for touch in the first place.
If Apple wants to introduce some sort of touch screen based OS for their Mac line in the future, then they should make a completely different OS, they shouldn't mess with OS X, IMO. If a touch iMac came out tomorrow, I would definitely not buy one. I don't see the appeal at all.
I have a MacBook Air and and MacBook Pro along with two other Macs and three iPads. When I touch the screen on any OS X computer nothing happens. Forget the comments about screen angle, battery life, etc.
I appreciate the comments but there are differences and Apple needs to put touch in OS X at some point.
They promoted this with iOS and customers expect it.
How many times have you seen a 4 year old touch the screen on a MacBook computer (any model). Apple needs to let the 4 years olds guide them.
I really hope Apple never ever goes along that path you are mentioning. No thanks. BTW I love Apples Trackpads that's the way Apple makes OS X "touchable". So far they did a really good job, and hopefully they will be improving the functionality of the Trackpad. If it doesn't exist already, Apple could launch an App, that turns your iPad into an giant Trackpad. For some graphical applications this might be quiet useful. Like a Wacom tablet with optical feedback.
Nonesense! I was in the apple store yesterday looking at brand new MacBook Air. It was using little over 8.5 GB of its 128GB Space. Clearly this guy installed a bunch more apps on the machine greatly effecting the results.
The surface is an overpriced peace of junk. If you wanted a laptop with the same performance and battery life, you could buy any PC laptop for $300 cheaper.
Besides PC are the reason, I do not own any. They are worthless.
Comments
I have the high end 11" MBA from mid 2011, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't trade it for a Surface Pro, (or top of the line iPad, for that matter.)
That said, you CAN compare a Surface Pro to an iPad or MBA, and those comparisons are going to yield different strength/weakness tables. I think it will be interesting to see what people do with it, and if perhaps there isn't a use case that it hits on the head.
Some people might use Win 8 apps and want a device that can travel with them, but also want to use it as a consumption device for lounging around the living room. How many people are they?
Not too many, I wouldn't think, but we'll see where the sales go to confirm what we all suspect (and "dismal" is probably the best word to describe that suspicion.) Even so, it would be irrational to say that this device doesn't do a lot of things an iPad can't, and if it isn't exactly an MBA killer, it does at least have the advantage of being compatible with Win 8 apps.
The most honest review of the Surface Pro is over at Ars Technica (by its Windows Editor, no less!):
Microsoft Surface with Windows 8 Pro: Hotter, Thicker, Faster, Louder
His final words:
"The design fundamentally doesn't work"
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/microsoft-surface-with-windows-8-pro-hotter-thicker-faster-louder/
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM
The Surface Pro tries to be a competitor against both MacBook Air and iPad, and it fails against each in a different set of ways. Arguing that it's storage use is comparable to the Air doesn't make it a good laptop.
Agreed. For a tablet, it has ridiculously bad battery life and is way too clunky/heavy. For a laptop, it can't even be used on an actual lap and has a flimsy, inferior keyboard and trackpad. The storage issue is far from the primary reason why the Surface is just not a good product.
"Consumers are happy that OSX is an entertainment delivery system. That's why they're buying more Apple computers and less Windows PCs."
OSX is way more than an entertainment delivery system, just ask all those NASA engineers. If OSX is fine for a range of people from consumers to NASA engineers, just who are they leaving out?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://photos.appleinsidercdn.com/mars1208060-1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/06/nasas_control_room_flooded_with_macs_during_mars_curiosity_landing&h=444&w=800&sz=67&tbnid=PtAAGJqD7CRJbM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=160&prev=/search?q=nasa+curiosity+landing+control+room+photo&tbm=isch&tbo=u&zoom=1&q=nasa curiosity landing control room photo&usg=__xQgfYidQPxu4PSTYXxYKBd-YQjQ=&docid=QINu9chzf2uYbM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O5kUUfy4Mo669gSbj4CoCw&ved=0CF8Q9QEwDg&dur=524
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Ed's methodology is flawed. It's fiction wrapped in some facts. Not what I'd call scientific at all.
I love how he tries to skewer Apple as not being honest about the drive space when both drives are marketed based on BASE-10.
Why not write an article explaining where he is wrong. I am sure he would be interested in some new information.
So ... let's add up the score for the great MS Windows 8 2012-13 campaign:
Windows 8 OS: being avoided - a flop - with PC sales nose diving.
Windows Phone 8: disappointing despite Nokia's all-in commitment, and going nowhere fast.
Surface RT: a total fail.
Surface Pro: a big flop, for fans only.
compared to Apple's 2012:
OSX 10.8 Mountain Lion: popular, with Mac sales increasing modestly.
iPhone 6: a huge hit.
iPad (5): a big hit
iPad Mini: a huge hit
so which company does Wall Street and the pundits declare to be in deep trouble? yeah, you guessed it ...
but when it comes to MS, they like their strategy. they like it a lot.
I appreciate the comments but there are differences and Apple needs to put touch in OS X at some point.
They promoted this with iOS and customers expect it.
How many times have you seen a 4 year old touch the screen on a MacBook computer (any model). Apple needs to let the 4 years olds guide them.
True.
Except one's DOA and the other defined an entire market segment.
/thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme
True, both cram a desktop OS into 64 GB, leaving enough storage for most people's needs EXCEPT for music/photo libraries.
However...
The Air has a real keyboard (typing tests on both Surface covers have shown it to fall short). Backlit no less.
The Air has MUCH longer battery life.
The Air doesn't try to cram two totally different platforms into one confusing mess.
The Air's screen angle is adjustable.
The Air has OS X and the iTunes store.
The Air has a much bigger and better trackpad.
The Air is a good laptop. Not a poor laptop combined with a poor tablet.
But if you consider the Surface Pro to be a tablet (after all, the keyboard/trackpad isn't even included in the price, it's optional) then you'll be comparing its free space to the iPad, not the Air.
P.S. My 128 GB Air is not a companion--it's a full professional production machine for Photoshop, programming, office tasks, everything. It can drive a big external display and its storage is unlimited when I'm at home (external drives). I chose less internal storage to save money: SSD is well worth the performance, but it costs more per GB. If I saved even more money and got a 64GB, I'd use my Air for all the same things... but I'd rely a bit more on cheap, high GB Western Digital pocket hard drive beside it.
P.P.S. The Air has a recovery partition too--and you can delete it for more space (less than a GB).
You forgot that the MacBookAir has Thunderbolt so you have a LOT of options to add, Sonnex ext PCI card expansion chassis, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
So ... let's add up the score for the great MS Windows 8 2012-13 campaign:
Windows 8 OS: being avoided - a flop - with PC sales nose diving.
Windows Phone 8: disappointing despite Nokia's all-in commitment, and going nowhere fast.
Surface RT: a total fail.
Surface Pro: a big flop, for fans only.
compared to Apple's 2012:
OSX 10.8 Mountain Lion: popular, with Mac sales increasing modestly.
iPhone 6: a huge hit.
iPad (5): a big hit
iPad Mini: a huge hit
so which company does Wall Street and the pundits declare to be in deep trouble? yeah, you guessed it ...
but when it comes to MS, they like their strategy. they like it a lot.
And when they can't get that many users to buy their OS upgrade, what does Microsoft do? RAISE THE PRICE so they can make their sales targets.
$200 for Window 8 Pro. I'm glad I don't work for a computer reseller selling to corporate and government accounts. I don't think I could look a customer in the eye without laughing at the price for Windows 8 Pro licensing. Knowing my former accounts, they probably would have a difficult time requesting it without laughing too....
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohannjn
I have a MacBook Air and and MacBook Pro along with two other Macs and three iPads. When I touch the screen on any OS X computer nothing happens. Forget the comments about screen angle, battery life, etc.
I appreciate the comments but there are differences and Apple needs to put touch in OS X at some point.
They promoted this with iOS and customers expect it.
How many times have you seen a 4 year old touch the screen on a MacBook computer (any model). Apple needs to let the 4 years olds guide them.
It would be a great workout raising your arms and leaning over to actually touch the screen. My iMac is too far away from me to make it plausible to use it as a touch screen. Plus, I would hate to constantly break out the glass cleaner every day. I'll stick to the trackpad and gesture mouse, thank you very much.
I am wondering what they will bring over from OS X to iOS and visa versa. This next release of OS X and iOS is going to be VERY interesting to see what Ive and Federighi come up with.
I used it and it sucks b*lls for days.
Viva OSX!!!!
I'm always amazed at Apple's pricing scheme.
$999 gets you in the door for the 11" Macbook Air. But wait... just $100 more doubles the storage!
Oh look... another $100 gets you a bigger screen and a faster processor!!
Unless you really needed the 11" form-factor... the 13" sounds like the better deal to me.
This reminds me of the old 4th gen iPod Touch. $199 for 8GB... $299 for 32GB !!!
It seems crazy not to get the better models... Apple does that on purpose
While Mr. Bott's comparison of the Surface Pro to the MacBook Air is fair of itself, it is spurious if it is an attempt to defuse the controversy about usable disk space on the 64GB Surface model. Obviously the bigger the storage space, the less important is the amount of space used by the system. No brainer. But Mr. Bott wants to treat the Surface Pro as a full featured laptop that should be compared only to another full featured laptop, both with the same storage capacity. Well I'm fine with that because in doing so, he effectively acknowledges that the 64GB model is neither a tablet nor a capable laptop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohannjn
How many times have you seen a 4 year old touch the screen on a MacBook computer (any model). Apple needs to let the 4 years olds guide them.
Who gives a crap about any four year olds? Give them an iPad, and that'll keep 'em quiet for a while. iPads are appliances that even apes can use and the OS is dumbed down on purpose.
I'm sure glad that OS X is not touch, because I'd hate to be lifting my arms up and around to navigate the 27" monitor that is in front of me at the moment. I use a Magic Trackpad and that's plenty enough touch for me as far as OS X is concerned. I'd also hate to be using all of my non-touch apps and trying to use those with a touch screen. I'd also hate to see everything blown up size wise as to accommodate a touch screen OS. Pros who have work to do don't have time to mess around with any OS that has to be dumbed down in order to implement touch.
As great as I think that my iPad is, I'm not exactly wishing for a touch screen when I'm using OS X, quite the contrary. That probably has something to do with the fact that OS X was never designed for touch in the first place.
If Apple wants to introduce some sort of touch screen based OS for their Mac line in the future, then they should make a completely different OS, they shouldn't mess with OS X, IMO. If a touch iMac came out tomorrow, I would definitely not buy one. I don't see the appeal at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohannjn
I have a MacBook Air and and MacBook Pro along with two other Macs and three iPads. When I touch the screen on any OS X computer nothing happens. Forget the comments about screen angle, battery life, etc.
I appreciate the comments but there are differences and Apple needs to put touch in OS X at some point.
They promoted this with iOS and customers expect it.
How many times have you seen a 4 year old touch the screen on a MacBook computer (any model). Apple needs to let the 4 years olds guide them.
I really hope Apple never ever goes along that path you are mentioning. No thanks. BTW I love Apples Trackpads that's the way Apple makes OS X "touchable". So far they did a really good job, and hopefully they will be improving the functionality of the Trackpad. If it doesn't exist already, Apple could launch an App, that turns your iPad into an giant Trackpad. For some graphical applications this might be quiet useful. Like a Wacom tablet with optical feedback.
Besides PC are the reason, I do not own any. They are worthless.