"While some Apple products lend themselves to easy criticism, the new iPod touch and iPad mini are pretty incredible. Yes, the same pricing complaints arise, and of course both are based on the out of date iOS system, which, if I’m reading the tea leaves right, is about to change in hopefully remarkable ways. But the quality of these devices leaves me speechless. Both are beautiful, thin, light, and remarkably well-made. Both are market leaders. And yes, both are highly recommended. If Microsoft, Amazon, or Google intends to take on Apple in the markets in which these products compete, they’re going to need to step it up."
MS is simply rehashing a tired old unsuccessful formula with the SP. Sure, it's smaller and lighter than their previous attempts at convertible laptops, but that's about it. They still think you can just use a touch screen device running software that was not designed for touch input. Oh, wait you say? It's not a laptop it's a tablet? Then why is the only real selling point the "fact" that you can run legacy desktop applications on it? Which of course demand the use of legacy input methods, such as a mouse? Pretty handy to have to carry around your keyboard, mouse, external storage device and of course your charger given the measly run time, which will go down when driving a mouse, keyboard and external drive.
Wait again, you say. It's got a Wacom digitizer, so it will be perfect for photo and design professionals, because working on a 10" ultra high definition screen is such an ideal workspace. Sure. I can't wait to read how design and photo professionals start dumping their workstations as they convert exclusively to SP devices.
I'm waiting for real examples (videos preferably) of designers using Adobe CS6 (PS-Extended, AI, IN) + Lightroom 4 on the MS Surface Pro. Has anyone found any videos and/or real user reviews yet?
Considering that Adobe's CS6 and MS Office are the 2 main productivity suites and main reasons that many say the Surface is better than any iPad for productivity and *real work*. Well... prove it.
Which brings me to my personal suspicion: CS6 is not going to run well at all, or be desirable to work with in the least on the Surface, with or w/o keyboard, mouse, larger monitor, pen... whatever. You certainly will be able to do a small subset of functions, but you're surely going to want a calibrated monitor and beefier processor/video card for the powerful layered tasks that Photoshop (for example) is best suited and used for.
Whether the Surface is a good tablet (or not) *today* in comparison to the iPad is mute point IMHO. Because Apple can easily scale up iOS, while Microsoft's approach is to allow developers to be lazy in regards to designing Apps and software for touch-based usage. Office as Exhibit A.
I'll say again as I did a few days ago in a post: Microsoft's tablet approach is holding software advancement & technology BACK rather than moving it forward.
<span style="line-height:1.231;">Every app you launch, every site you visit, every magazine you read on an iPad... was built, coded, designed, buy someone on OSX of Windows... iOS is a toy, for the same reasons Crayons are not art supplies... </span>
<span style="line-height:1.231;">yes, I rather be with the "clueless" and "trolls" .....</span>
Uh... Every car I drive was made by an assembly line. Every PC I use was assembled by a human. So cars and PCs are 'crayons' too?
Microsoft has announced "amazing" customer response to its tablet/notebook hybrid Surface Pro, and reports have noted that the higher end 128GB model has sold out in some locations "immediately" after going on sale, just as the Zune HD did in 2009.
In a blog posting earlier today, the company <a href="http://blog.surface.com/b/surface/archive/2013/02/09/surface-pro-available-now.aspx">didn't report</a> how many units of the new Surface Pro it had sold, or even had shipped to stores, and was even careful not to imply that the "amazing" customer response was actually being reflected in any specific way, such as in indirect sales or even a quantified numbers of customers.
Let's see. Microsoft sells an undefined number of products and sell out - and it's good news (even ignoring the fact that the last time they had a product sell out, it was the Zune which never sold in significant quantities overall. Sell-outs were apparently due to low supply).
Apple's shares were crushed by investors after the company reported its inventory sell outs and missed sales numbers over the important sales quarter.
Apple, OTOH, sells millions of iPhones and iMacs and iPads and announces the numbers of how many million they've sold. In the case of the iPhone 5, they sold double digit percentages more than any previous phone in history, but the demand was so high that even with millions in the pipeline, they couldn't keep up. And that was considered such bad news that the stock got hammered.
Is anyone still denying that there's a double standard when it comes to Apple compared to everyone else?
If you've ever been in protest politics you will know "sold out" has another connotation.
I will believe huge queues when I see the evidence.
When the iPad mini launched, Apple sold 3 million iPads in 3 days, and quickly reported the numbers. Claiming huge enthusiasm with no numbers is just empty hype.
I've said this many times but it's worth repeating. The Surface makes no sense in ultrabook price territory. Microsoft has invented a laptop you can't use on your lap, then tried to position it as a better tablet, but at a price point where you can buy a proper computer with a proper keyboard. It will sink even faster than Zune.
What MS fans are missing is this is not a new concept. The Windows tablet platform launched more than 10 years ago with much the same feature set, down to the stylus. The only real change is Windows has advanced a few releases. A desktop OS does not work on a tablet for the vast majority of users.
The real issue though that damages Microsoft's chances here is Apple has established a vast market for inexpensive tablet apps. For Microsoft to compete, they would have to offer a version of Office at a price in the ballpark of the typical iOS commercial app. They can do that only if they build scale to a level that replaces the much higher margins on desktop licenses.
They would be much better off porting Office and other apps to Android and iOS, and building scale there. If they get that right, maybe consider doing their own tablet platform. But not like this. Makes. No. Sense.
All this "news" is ridiculous, because there's no context to the claim. I still haven't seen anyone point out that Apple handles supply constraints very differently. When demand outstrips supply, it's pretty easy with Apple to still place the order and get a rather accurate answer when they will fill the order. That's a far better way to manage the situation than "we don't have anymore and we don't know when we will get any".
In addition, if the Surface Pro cannabilizes anything its other Windows PCs. It is hard to imagine that people are choosing that device versus an iPad in any measurable number. And I would remind people that Microsoft pushed tablet-based full fledged Windows machines for years and it never gained traction, so only time will tell if the conditions have changed for them. We see that their OS design hasn't.
It was Microsoft's answer to the IPod, and despite all the hate, a really good music player. It was actually leaps beyond even what Apple and anyone else had out at the time. It obviously never caught on.
Stories were (and are) everywhere about Windows Phones selling out at this or that carrier.
REALITY: Windows Phone has not only barely budged in share since its inception (what now seems like years ago), but it has actually been *losing* share.
So, EVIDENCE, PLEASE!
The only lineups/crazy demand I am prepared to take as genuine at this time is anything to do with Apple. Because the demand for Apple gear is already a given, proven phenomenon. It's palpable. You can feel it - all across the industry, from pundits to Joe Consumer. Anyone else claiming Apple-like mindshare for abc or xyz product needs to go all out and PROVE IT with solid numbers (SOLD, NOT SHIPPED.)
Tired of all the bullshit from Apple's desperate competitors.
It was Microsoft's answer to the IPod, and despite all the hate, a really good music player. It was actually leaps beyond even what Apple and anyone else had out at the time. It obviously never caught on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkndrublic
What the hell is a zune?
He forgot to add a "/s" tag, that's all..... it's an old joke around these parts.
<span style="line-height:1.231;">Every app you launch, every site you visit, every magazine you read on an iPad... was built, coded, designed, buy someone on OSX of Windows... iOS is a toy, for the same reasons Crayons are not art supplies... </span>
<span style="line-height:1.231;">yes, I rather be with the "clueless" and "trolls" who stick with OSX and a Windows Surface. I do not waste my time using a tablet with iOS, it is simply not good enough.</span>
Partially true. Partially false. I know several professional photographers now using te iPad for all of their field work. In several cases, the final supplied art work supplied to clients for magazine publication/web work was 100% done on the iPad.
Saying iOS is only a toy and supporting it with fart app memes points to you being unimagineative or a troll. Yes, I use Windows, iOS and OS X. I use all three for real and productive work though iOS is a much better consumption device than OS X or Windows.
I've said this many times but it's worth repeating. The Surface makes no sense in ultrabook price territory. Microsoft has invented a laptop you can't use on your lap, then tried to position it as a better tablet, but at a price point where you can buy a proper computer with a proper keyboard. It will sink even faster than Zune.
That's somewhat overstating the case. There are a few places where the Surface Pro makes sense - mostly corporate applications. Say you have a corporate finance system that only runs on Windows PCs (or, at least, the clients only run on Windows). And now you need simple data entry in remote locations. The Surface might make sense (although mostly without the keyboard, which is odd because MS promotes it exclusively with the keyboard - which makes it a clumsy laptop rather than a tablet). Or you do presentations at trade shows and need access to specialized apps that don't run on other tablets. A tablet format makes a lot of sense for presentations because you can stand next to your observer.
Granted, I don't think either of those will lead to huge volumes, but it's not true that the Pro has NO value.
"What MS fans are missing is this is not a new concept. The Windows tablet platform launched more than 10 years ago with much the same feature set, down to the stylus. The only real change is Windows has advanced a few releases. A desktop OS does not work on a tablet for the vast majority of users.
The real issue though that damages Microsoft's chances here is Apple has established a vast market for inexpensive tablet apps. For Microsoft to compete, they would have to offer a version of Office at a price in the ballpark of the typical iOS commercial app. They can do that only if they build scale to a level that replaces the much higher margins on desktop licenses.
They would be much better off porting Office and other apps to Android and iOS, and building scale there. If they get that right, maybe consider doing their own tablet platform. But not like this. Makes. No. Sense.
Your suggestion makes sense, but it involves re-engineering themselves - something that Microsoft is very poor at. If they simply port Office to the Surface (or Android or iOS), it will be a disaster. The apps have grown so large and feature-filled, and complex that they'd be a disaster on tablets. Rather, MS should build a NEW Office from the ground up using only the features that most users need and simplifying the interface so that it's a simple, clean, tablet-read app. And they need to be prepared to sell it at the price that has become standard for tablet apps - no more than about $10 per app or $30 for the suite. If they did that, they would find themselves back on top with Office everywhere. Trying to get people to buy Surface Pro is not the way to accomplish that goal.
All this "news" is ridiculous, because there's no context to the claim. I still haven't seen anyone point out that Apple handles supply constraints very differently. When demand outstrips supply, it's pretty easy with Apple to still place the order and get a rather accurate answer when they will fill the order. That's a far better way to manage the situation than "we don't have anymore and we don't know when we will get any".
In addition, if the Surface Pro cannabilizes anything its other Windows PCs. It is hard to imagine that people are choosing that device versus an iPad in any measurable number. And I would remind people that Microsoft pushed tablet-based full fledged Windows machines for years and it never gained traction, so only time will tell if the conditions have changed for them. We see that their OS design hasn't.
Agreed. As I've said before, The Surface Pro is mostly competing with laptops and the Surface RT is mostly competing with the iPad. While there's some overlap (see above), it's small.
We sold 50% of our stock in the first 3 hours, now we only have one left.
You have a future in marketing for some of these companies. That's exactly the type of stuff that many of these companies would say.
The only thing I'd change is that most of them are astute enough not to put that all in one sentence. Rather, they'd send out separate press releases for the two facts - twice the publicity and less chance that people would see through it.
It's pretty simple. If a company has good numbers to announce, they announce the numbers. Apple has always been quick to announce opening weekend sales on all their successful product launches. Early sales of Apple TV were just called "a hobby" because they weren't so good.
So unless the public is stupid we will see lines down the road for the surface..forget about the eco system and customer service that apple offers its all about hardware so says you...mmmm
It's pretty simple. If a company has good numbers to announce, they announce the numbers. Apple has always been quick to announce opening weekend sales on all their successful product launches. Early sales of Apple TV were just called "a hobby" because they weren't so good.
No numbers means lousy sales.
You got it.
The same explains all the Android "marketshare" as well.
Comments
Ballmer's RDF doesn't work so well, no?
Well, MS didn't want to set up a bad situation, so they shipped their only pickup truck load of Surfaces to the Redmond campus and ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer
The moment Paul Thurrott opens his mouth is the moment I stop believing any such statements...
Well he did write this about the iPad mini and iPod touch:
http://winsupersite.com/mobile-devices/compete-report-apple-ipod-touch-ipad-mini
"While some Apple products lend themselves to easy criticism, the new iPod touch and iPad mini are pretty incredible. Yes, the same pricing complaints arise, and of course both are based on the out of date iOS system, which, if I’m reading the tea leaves right, is about to change in hopefully remarkable ways. But the quality of these devices leaves me speechless. Both are beautiful, thin, light, and remarkably well-made. Both are market leaders. And yes, both are highly recommended. If Microsoft, Amazon, or Google intends to take on Apple in the markets in which these products compete, they’re going to need to step it up."
Wait again, you say. It's got a Wacom digitizer, so it will be perfect for photo and design professionals, because working on a 10" ultra high definition screen is such an ideal workspace. Sure. I can't wait to read how design and photo professionals start dumping their workstations as they convert exclusively to SP devices.
Considering that Adobe's CS6 and MS Office are the 2 main productivity suites and main reasons that many say the Surface is better than any iPad for productivity and *real work*. Well... prove it.
Which brings me to my personal suspicion: CS6 is not going to run well at all, or be desirable to work with in the least on the Surface, with or w/o keyboard, mouse, larger monitor, pen... whatever. You certainly will be able to do a small subset of functions, but you're surely going to want a calibrated monitor and beefier processor/video card for the powerful layered tasks that Photoshop (for example) is best suited and used for.
Whether the Surface is a good tablet (or not) *today* in comparison to the iPad is mute point IMHO. Because Apple can easily scale up iOS, while Microsoft's approach is to allow developers to be lazy in regards to designing Apps and software for touch-based usage. Office as Exhibit A.
I'll say again as I did a few days ago in a post: Microsoft's tablet approach is holding software advancement & technology BACK rather than moving it forward.
Why am I not surprised that an loser windows product that is under produced, under powered, oversize, and over priced would not sell out.
People have been buying windows junk for decades. It's all they know.
Uh... Every car I drive was made by an assembly line. Every PC I use was assembled by a human. So cars and PCs are 'crayons' too?
Yes, you are embarrassingly clueless.
Let's see. Microsoft sells an undefined number of products and sell out - and it's good news (even ignoring the fact that the last time they had a product sell out, it was the Zune which never sold in significant quantities overall. Sell-outs were apparently due to low supply).
Apple, OTOH, sells millions of iPhones and iMacs and iPads and announces the numbers of how many million they've sold. In the case of the iPhone 5, they sold double digit percentages more than any previous phone in history, but the demand was so high that even with millions in the pipeline, they couldn't keep up. And that was considered such bad news that the stock got hammered.
Is anyone still denying that there's a double standard when it comes to Apple compared to everyone else?
I hope you realize you're not making much sense.
If you've ever been in protest politics you will know "sold out" has another connotation.
I will believe huge queues when I see the evidence.
When the iPad mini launched, Apple sold 3 million iPads in 3 days, and quickly reported the numbers. Claiming huge enthusiasm with no numbers is just empty hype.
I've said this many times but it's worth repeating. The Surface makes no sense in ultrabook price territory. Microsoft has invented a laptop you can't use on your lap, then tried to position it as a better tablet, but at a price point where you can buy a proper computer with a proper keyboard. It will sink even faster than Zune.
What MS fans are missing is this is not a new concept. The Windows tablet platform launched more than 10 years ago with much the same feature set, down to the stylus. The only real change is Windows has advanced a few releases. A desktop OS does not work on a tablet for the vast majority of users.
The real issue though that damages Microsoft's chances here is Apple has established a vast market for inexpensive tablet apps. For Microsoft to compete, they would have to offer a version of Office at a price in the ballpark of the typical iOS commercial app. They can do that only if they build scale to a level that replaces the much higher margins on desktop licenses.
They would be much better off porting Office and other apps to Android and iOS, and building scale there. If they get that right, maybe consider doing their own tablet platform. But not like this. Makes. No. Sense.
In addition, if the Surface Pro cannabilizes anything its other Windows PCs. It is hard to imagine that people are choosing that device versus an iPad in any measurable number. And I would remind people that Microsoft pushed tablet-based full fledged Windows machines for years and it never gained traction, so only time will tell if the conditions have changed for them. We see that their OS design hasn't.
It was Microsoft's answer to the IPod, and despite all the hate, a really good music player. It was actually leaps beyond even what Apple and anyone else had out at the time. It obviously never caught on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkndrublic
What the hell is a zune?
Saw this movie before.
Wait 6 months and show us the numbers.
Stories were (and are) everywhere about Windows Phones selling out at this or that carrier.
REALITY: Windows Phone has not only barely budged in share since its inception (what now seems like years ago), but it has actually been *losing* share.
So, EVIDENCE, PLEASE!
The only lineups/crazy demand I am prepared to take as genuine at this time is anything to do with Apple. Because the demand for Apple gear is already a given, proven phenomenon. It's palpable. You can feel it - all across the industry, from pundits to Joe Consumer. Anyone else claiming Apple-like mindshare for abc or xyz product needs to go all out and PROVE IT with solid numbers (SOLD, NOT SHIPPED.)
Tired of all the bullshit from Apple's desperate competitors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnash
It was Microsoft's answer to the IPod, and despite all the hate, a really good music player. It was actually leaps beyond even what Apple and anyone else had out at the time. It obviously never caught on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkndrublic
What the hell is a zune?
He forgot to add a "/s" tag, that's all..... it's an old joke around these parts.
Partially true. Partially false. I know several professional photographers now using te iPad for all of their field work. In several cases, the final supplied art work supplied to clients for magazine publication/web work was 100% done on the iPad.
Saying iOS is only a toy and supporting it with fart app memes points to you being unimagineative or a troll. Yes, I use Windows, iOS and OS X. I use all three for real and productive work though iOS is a much better consumption device than OS X or Windows.
That's somewhat overstating the case. There are a few places where the Surface Pro makes sense - mostly corporate applications. Say you have a corporate finance system that only runs on Windows PCs (or, at least, the clients only run on Windows). And now you need simple data entry in remote locations. The Surface might make sense (although mostly without the keyboard, which is odd because MS promotes it exclusively with the keyboard - which makes it a clumsy laptop rather than a tablet). Or you do presentations at trade shows and need access to specialized apps that don't run on other tablets. A tablet format makes a lot of sense for presentations because you can stand next to your observer.
Granted, I don't think either of those will lead to huge volumes, but it's not true that the Pro has NO value.
Your suggestion makes sense, but it involves re-engineering themselves - something that Microsoft is very poor at. If they simply port Office to the Surface (or Android or iOS), it will be a disaster. The apps have grown so large and feature-filled, and complex that they'd be a disaster on tablets. Rather, MS should build a NEW Office from the ground up using only the features that most users need and simplifying the interface so that it's a simple, clean, tablet-read app. And they need to be prepared to sell it at the price that has become standard for tablet apps - no more than about $10 per app or $30 for the suite. If they did that, they would find themselves back on top with Office everywhere. Trying to get people to buy Surface Pro is not the way to accomplish that goal.
Agreed. As I've said before, The Surface Pro is mostly competing with laptops and the Surface RT is mostly competing with the iPad. While there's some overlap (see above), it's small.
You have a future in marketing for some of these companies. That's exactly the type of stuff that many of these companies would say.
The only thing I'd change is that most of them are astute enough not to put that all in one sentence. Rather, they'd send out separate press releases for the two facts - twice the publicity and less chance that people would see through it.
No numbers means lousy sales.
So unless the public is stupid we will see lines down the road for the surface..forget about the eco system and customer service that apple offers its all about hardware so says you...mmmm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnfrombeyond
It's pretty simple. If a company has good numbers to announce, they announce the numbers. Apple has always been quick to announce opening weekend sales on all their successful product launches. Early sales of Apple TV were just called "a hobby" because they weren't so good.
No numbers means lousy sales.
You got it.
The same explains all the Android "marketshare" as well.