Yeah and the mini isn't plastic. Not sure why all these "analysts" think a less expensive iPhone has to be plastic. I'd love it if they took cues from the iPod touch in terms of design. Maybe Apple is leaking this plastic nonsense to really throw people off.
What's wrong with plastic? Did you not buy the 3G/3GS because it had a plastic back?
Apple can't really believe that a cheaper iphone is the way forward.
All this at the moment is analyst BS. Before the whole payment plan stuff in China and even in the US at places like Walmart I might have believed it. But now with those in the game, I'm not taking this as fact. Particularly since those prototypes could equally be rejected designs from before the 5 release.
Personally I hope Brian White keeps blabbing this stuff, ends up totally wrong and gets roasted by the media. Then perhaps folks will get the message to stop trusting analysts to know what they are talking about. And then we might not see this jerking around of the stock all the time
They need a 4" device for $400 or less considering the Nexus 4 sells for $360 and is a much better phone than the 4s and the 4. A low price 5" would be nice but I guess the big screen iphone will be high end so expensive, unless they do one with the same resolution as the iphone 5.
No they don't. You, and perhaps others, want them to have one. But they don't NEED it.
Apple's game is rarely to never to chase market share by selling cheap. They make what they make, to fit the markets they want and if it goes big, great. If not, so long as they are making money they are fine with it. They don't view this as a zero sum game is they aren't bothered by others making money. So long as there's no IP theft etc.
They are already selling a cheaper phone with a smaller screen, its called the iphone 4...
The most urgent need for a low cost phone is in emerging market. Apple is suppose to design the best hardware for the customers right? Well those guys can only afford one device, so they need something with a very long battery life and a decent screen size (4"+) for $300 max unlock. Its a matter of putting the best possible specs without creating bottlenecks or speding too much on one particular component, so a well balance phone. If Apple is so "talented", they should be able to come out with something. I would aim for a 20% margin using old components already being mass produce for there other device, exept for the screen and casing. Spreading the ecosystem is key here.
The key elements of emerging markets situation is this:
* Unreliable electrical grid with frequent power outage or no connection to the power grid at home
* No telco land lines (cable or phone)
* Very low income.
* They can only afford one device ( computer,phone, tablet, ipod) so the obvious choice is almost always a phone.
I am sure people in the US would consider the Apple emerging market phone like garbage, but it could still be a premium product for billions of people, giving them acces to the Apple ecosystem.
And one of those emerging markets is China. Lets see an iPhone cheap enough that all tho poor slaves that build the iPhone can afford to buy one (and then cue the cries that its so cheap they should be given one for all their hard work). Under $200US full price, blah blah. That's all the Chinese can afford right?
and yet, those $700 and up full price iPhones are selling with as much as a 100% markup in China's black market. All those stories about Asian resellers in Los Angeles, New York, Hong Kong. 90% of those iPhones are going to said market and mark up. So apparently at least some Chinese can afford more than $200 and a pretty good number of them.
Well, there's no doubt the memory would be the first to get slashed 8GB only. They did put a lesser display in the iPod Touch, and it's fine...acceptable compromise. I can also see previous gen chipsets too. The real question is this...how much does that affect price?? I know display and battery usually rank up there with most costly items. The case I really doubt affects cost all that much, however stamping out plastic bodies is probably a lot easier to produce than milling a billion-and-one aluminum cases from CNC machines.
My theory is, they will make the internal design much easier to assemble. Keeping production costs down and production output up will be how they save money, not on components. We have already seen the result of producing a finely crafted product. Supply-chain issues and slower sales. By producing a much simpler design that requires less tolerances, yet continues to hold a high level of quality, you will reduce production costs, speed output and produce higher profit at a lower margin. If anyone can do it, Apple can.
In reality it will likely have to come from all of these things...components...better assembly efficiency, etc.
No they don't. You, and perhaps others, want them to have one. But they don't NEED it.
Apple's game is rarely to never to chase market share by selling cheap. They make what they make, to fit the markets they want and if it goes big, great. If not, so long as they are making money they are fine with it. They don't view this as a zero sum game is they aren't bothered by others making money. So long as there's no IP theft etc.
I broadly agree, but Apple needs to have a long-term view here. Its a battle of ecosystems and one ecosystem could trump the other in the long run. If Android has more developer support, 4x the installed base, all the while offering cheaper products, it will be hard for apple to offer a premium phone. The hardware can be superior, but if the best ecosystem is not behind it, Apple might not offer the "premium" user experience. It may behoove Apple to go after marketshare in this case in order to strengthen its ecosystem and get a larger installed base.
It nearly lost out to Windows in the past. I would prefer we not have a repeat of that in the new mobile age.
But they're made of glass, front and back. Not an appropriate material for people who lead tougher lives than you. We learned with the mini that the aluminum back cost as much as the display, so that sort of machined precision is probably out.
I envision a Volksfone should have a rugged plastic case, with a water-resistant case-to-screen seal, maybe with squared edges like the present aluminum cases rather than the slippery backs of the iPhone 3 and 3S. It wouldn't need a case because nothing would be any tougher that the phone itself.
Of course it's doubtful Apple would go in this direction, but who knows.
Address the feature phone market? I can honestly say "Samsung can have at it".
First, it's not about addressing the feature phone market as much as it might be about trying to create a lower cost pathway for more people to get into the smart phone market.
Second, ignoring this could prove to be incredibly short-sighted.
i just don't understand a new "low-end" model. If they want to save costs, then use the 4/4S and replace the back glass with metal. I can't see them going to a plastic phone again.
Yeah and the mini isn't plastic. Not sure why all these "analysts" think a less expensive iPhone has to be plastic. I'd love it if they took cues from the iPod touch in terms of design. Maybe Apple is leaking this plastic nonsense to really throw people off.
What's wrong with plastic? Did you not buy the 3G/3GS because it had a plastic back?
Yes, that is one of the reasons I did not buy a 3G/3GS. Plastic feels lower quality, and the weight savings is not that much in these devices. In a miniatures game, sure where the whole model is changed over it makes a big deal. However Apple knows what they are doing with aluminum, look at the Unibody Macbooks, the aluminum one was lighter than the plastic one, and had almost the exact same components.
This is bs. And this is how the greed in Wall Street destroys companies like apple. Apple is bringing in the cash like nobody else yet these analyst insist Apple must target the low end market. Please! And if Apple does do a low end IPhone it'll only go so far because some wont buy Apple no matter what. Next Apple will be accused of cannibolizing their high end stuff with low margin watered down sh** just to suffice some goddamn corner office , Wall Street schmucks. Then when Apple has a conference call call,on their earnings and it is below what they had before due to selling lowend iPhones the analyst will bitch. Give me an effing break.
I still don't see this happening as they claim. Sure, a cheaper version of a staple phone that is FREE with contract I can see. But a "lower end phone", no, Apple would die first!
Example 1: iPhone 4s with some plastic instead of glass.
Example 2: If you produce Ax chips with 4-cores and you have a 10% defective yield (only 2 cores work, or some cache is bad), then those chips can go into the Apple TV (which they are) and into the iPhone 4x. (BTW, Intel does this all the time).
Much of the savings comes from volume. Having the same processor in all their phones allows you to ramp up just one assembly line. They can easily do for the iPhone 4x (probably be given a new name) what they are doing for the Apple TV which is to use the most current process being fabed, but use only the dies that are not suitable for the iPhone 5x.
You can combine example 1 and 2 and you have a nice entry phone (think Macbook vs. Macbook Pro) that has some cheaper components while also using dies that are not capable of being put into their higher end phones.
You also have yield problems with SSDs so you can use these in the 4x also. Again, using perfectly good components that are not up to par for the higher end performance. Anand over at AnandTech would be able to give a much better explanation.
This saves waste and increases margin, while providing a phone that is not 'cheap', but more entry level.
iPad mini is not a cheaper to market version of the iPad but a form factor change to fill out the product family.
i just don't understand a new "low-end" model. If they want to save costs, then use the 4/4S and replace the back glass with metal. I can't see them going to a plastic phone again.
Like I said above, the machined aluminum back is said to cost as much as the display on the iPad mini. Whether it's a stamped metal back like on the older iPod touch or a machined back like the present ones, they need to have radio transparent elements fitted in—more expense.
I'm sure Apple could pull off something really nice in plastic, like Nokia did, only more tactile.
Comments
What's wrong with plastic? Did you not buy the 3G/3GS because it had a plastic back?
THEY'RE CALLED iPHONE 4 & iPhone 4S!!!!!!
Jesus ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott1612
Apple can't really believe that a cheaper iphone is the way forward.
All this at the moment is analyst BS. Before the whole payment plan stuff in China and even in the US at places like Walmart I might have believed it. But now with those in the game, I'm not taking this as fact. Particularly since those prototypes could equally be rejected designs from before the 5 release.
Personally I hope Brian White keeps blabbing this stuff, ends up totally wrong and gets roasted by the media. Then perhaps folks will get the message to stop trusting analysts to know what they are talking about. And then we might not see this jerking around of the stock all the time
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
They need a 4" device for $400 or less considering the Nexus 4 sells for $360 and is a much better phone than the 4s and the 4. A low price 5" would be nice but I guess the big screen iphone will be high end so expensive, unless they do one with the same resolution as the iphone 5.
No they don't. You, and perhaps others, want them to have one. But they don't NEED it.
Apple's game is rarely to never to chase market share by selling cheap. They make what they make, to fit the markets they want and if it goes big, great. If not, so long as they are making money they are fine with it. They don't view this as a zero sum game is they aren't bothered by others making money. So long as there's no IP theft etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
They are already selling a cheaper phone with a smaller screen, its called the iphone 4...
The most urgent need for a low cost phone is in emerging market. Apple is suppose to design the best hardware for the customers right? Well those guys can only afford one device, so they need something with a very long battery life and a decent screen size (4"+) for $300 max unlock. Its a matter of putting the best possible specs without creating bottlenecks or speding too much on one particular component, so a well balance phone. If Apple is so "talented", they should be able to come out with something. I would aim for a 20% margin using old components already being mass produce for there other device, exept for the screen and casing. Spreading the ecosystem is key here.
The key elements of emerging markets situation is this:
* Unreliable electrical grid with frequent power outage or no connection to the power grid at home
* No telco land lines (cable or phone)
* Very low income.
* They can only afford one device ( computer,phone, tablet, ipod) so the obvious choice is almost always a phone.
I am sure people in the US would consider the Apple emerging market phone like garbage, but it could still be a premium product for billions of people, giving them acces to the Apple ecosystem.
And one of those emerging markets is China. Lets see an iPhone cheap enough that all tho poor slaves that build the iPhone can afford to buy one (and then cue the cries that its so cheap they should be given one for all their hard work). Under $200US full price, blah blah. That's all the Chinese can afford right?
and yet, those $700 and up full price iPhones are selling with as much as a 100% markup in China's black market. All those stories about Asian resellers in Los Angeles, New York, Hong Kong. 90% of those iPhones are going to said market and mark up. So apparently at least some Chinese can afford more than $200 and a pretty good number of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
Well, there's no doubt the memory would be the first to get slashed 8GB only. They did put a lesser display in the iPod Touch, and it's fine...acceptable compromise. I can also see previous gen chipsets too. The real question is this...how much does that affect price?? I know display and battery usually rank up there with most costly items. The case I really doubt affects cost all that much, however stamping out plastic bodies is probably a lot easier to produce than milling a billion-and-one aluminum cases from CNC machines.
My theory is, they will make the internal design much easier to assemble. Keeping production costs down and production output up will be how they save money, not on components. We have already seen the result of producing a finely crafted product. Supply-chain issues and slower sales. By producing a much simpler design that requires less tolerances, yet continues to hold a high level of quality, you will reduce production costs, speed output and produce higher profit at a lower margin. If anyone can do it, Apple can.
In reality it will likely have to come from all of these things...components...better assembly efficiency, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
2nd, for most investors, low cost means lower margin... and that means less profit
Some investors may think that, but it isn't necessarily true. Lower cost and lower gross margin might actually mean more profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
No they don't. You, and perhaps others, want them to have one. But they don't NEED it.
Apple's game is rarely to never to chase market share by selling cheap. They make what they make, to fit the markets they want and if it goes big, great. If not, so long as they are making money they are fine with it. They don't view this as a zero sum game is they aren't bothered by others making money. So long as there's no IP theft etc.
I broadly agree, but Apple needs to have a long-term view here. Its a battle of ecosystems and one ecosystem could trump the other in the long run. If Android has more developer support, 4x the installed base, all the while offering cheaper products, it will be hard for apple to offer a premium phone. The hardware can be superior, but if the best ecosystem is not behind it, Apple might not offer the "premium" user experience. It may behoove Apple to go after marketshare in this case in order to strengthen its ecosystem and get a larger installed base.
It nearly lost out to Windows in the past. I would prefer we not have a repeat of that in the new mobile age.
But they're made of glass, front and back. Not an appropriate material for people who lead tougher lives than you. We learned with the mini that the aluminum back cost as much as the display, so that sort of machined precision is probably out.
I envision a Volksfone should have a rugged plastic case, with a water-resistant case-to-screen seal, maybe with squared edges like the present aluminum cases rather than the slippery backs of the iPhone 3 and 3S. It wouldn't need a case because nothing would be any tougher that the phone itself.
Of course it's doubtful Apple would go in this direction, but who knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
What's wrong with plastic? Did you not buy the 3G/3GS because it had a plastic back?
I prefer non plastic devices. And no one has provided a specific reason why a lower cost iPhone needs to be plastic.
Address the feature phone market? I can honestly say "Samsung can have at it".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I prefer non plastic devices. And no one has provided a specific reason why a lower cost iPhone needs to be plastic.
Possibly because no one that's posting here really knows Apple's costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775
Address the feature phone market? I can honestly say "Samsung can have at it".
First, it's not about addressing the feature phone market as much as it might be about trying to create a lower cost pathway for more people to get into the smart phone market.
Second, ignoring this could prove to be incredibly short-sighted.
i just don't understand a new "low-end" model. If they want to save costs, then use the 4/4S and replace the back glass with metal. I can't see them going to a plastic phone again.
Originally Posted by Flaneur
But they're made of glass, front and back. Not an appropriate material for people who lead tougher lives than you.
Why is this a consideration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
I can't see them going to a plastic phone again.
Why not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Yeah and the mini isn't plastic. Not sure why all these "analysts" think a less expensive iPhone has to be plastic. I'd love it if they took cues from the iPod touch in terms of design. Maybe Apple is leaking this plastic nonsense to really throw people off.
What's wrong with plastic? Did you not buy the 3G/3GS because it had a plastic back?
Yes, that is one of the reasons I did not buy a 3G/3GS. Plastic feels lower quality, and the weight savings is not that much in these devices. In a miniatures game, sure where the whole model is changed over it makes a big deal. However Apple knows what they are doing with aluminum, look at the Unibody Macbooks, the aluminum one was lighter than the plastic one, and had almost the exact same components.
Apple is bringing in the cash like nobody else yet these analyst insist Apple must target the low end market. Please!
And if Apple does do a low end IPhone it'll only go so far because some wont buy Apple no matter what. Next Apple will be accused of cannibolizing their high end stuff with low margin watered down sh** just to suffice some goddamn corner office , Wall Street schmucks.
Then when Apple has a conference call call,on their earnings and it is below what they had before due to selling lowend iPhones the analyst will bitch.
Give me an effing break.
Example 1: iPhone 4s with some plastic instead of glass.
Example 2: If you produce Ax chips with 4-cores and you have a 10% defective yield (only 2 cores work, or some cache is bad), then those chips can go into the Apple TV (which they are) and into the iPhone 4x. (BTW, Intel does this all the time).
Much of the savings comes from volume. Having the same processor in all their phones allows you to ramp up just one assembly line. They can easily do for the iPhone 4x (probably be given a new name) what they are doing for the Apple TV which is to use the most current process being fabed, but use only the dies that are not suitable for the iPhone 5x.
You can combine example 1 and 2 and you have a nice entry phone (think Macbook vs. Macbook Pro) that has some cheaper components while also using dies that are not capable of being put into their higher end phones.
You also have yield problems with SSDs so you can use these in the 4x also. Again, using perfectly good components that are not up to par for the higher end performance. Anand over at AnandTech would be able to give a much better explanation.
This saves waste and increases margin, while providing a phone that is not 'cheap', but more entry level.
iPad mini is not a cheaper to market version of the iPad but a form factor change to fill out the product family.
Like I said above, the machined aluminum back is said to cost as much as the display on the iPad mini. Whether it's a stamped metal back like on the older iPod touch or a machined back like the present ones, they need to have radio transparent elements fitted in—more expense.
I'm sure Apple could pull off something really nice in plastic, like Nokia did, only more tactile.