Why does my OS need "excitement"? Isn't that the job of the apps?
He means "excrement"
A phone OS should not be an app launch tool. It should be in-yo-face with lots of, um, excitement. And stuff. Lots of stuff. And animation. So you know it's there. Sucking down battery life.
I work with Apple stuff and spend at least four or five hours in Xcode every day. I like Apple more than most. But to be frank, LCD technology is fundamentally inferior to OLED. The hard contrasts and garish colors on Samsung OLED phones (and it happens) are not a result of weakness in the display tech, but the display tech being too vicious and accurate with content designed and calibrated to look good on inferior displays. A good analogy is a MacBook Retina display with non-retina programs - it looks like crap because of the source, not the display.
To really use the capability inherent in an OLED display, you would need source material with a gamut and dynamic range to match - and you don't see that around very often. But intrinsically, LCD's are a mish-mash of colorspaces - they take an RGB signal (adding up from black to white) and physically render it CMYK (subract from an absolute whitespace - the backlight - to the color desired, like an inket printing on paper). For all LCD's advantages, that is a Rube Goldberg approach to rendering a pixel, and it cannot come anywhere near black levels of displays that actually can turn off.
Apple is playing down OLED displays because that is one critical technology they are absolutely not competitive in. No suppliers, no in-house tech (they're rapidly trying to remedy that now), and they've alienated the biggest player in it.
What the hell you talking about?
Do you really know what cmyk is? Maybe you should read up on subtractive light.
There is no black light! And K stands for black dye for printing process only because of impurities from dyes mixed from cmy can not guarantee a pure black.
Lcds are additive and only 'subtractive' to filter out the 3 primary additive colours red green and blue, not cyan magenta yellow which are secondary additive colours. If all 3 are not masked then resultant output is still white, because each pixel is made up of not one light but three primary lights. That is why if you zoom into an LCD screen you see 3 primaries.
It is certainly not the same as printing. As light is absorbed and reflected.
There is one thing similar with process printing, that is the colour is made up by fooling our eye in believing we see variations in colour when the reality is inks printed in tiny dots at different angles and densities.
I don't see what's wrong with the current multitasking on iPad. I understand that some people like having different apps opened at the same time on the screen, I don't see the point in that if you can switch with a gesture of the hand.
Many here say that iOS already has all the multitasking it'll ever need, and they've been saying this since v1.0. What more could anyone possibly want?
Well, I'd like the following abilities / changes (just from the top of my head):
Shell access;
Allow any apps of my choice to run for more than 10 minutes;
Select default applications and remove the ones provided by Apple;
Be able to plug in modules to default applications for voice, video, instant messaging, and sharing support;
Be able to backup and restore data from specific applications;
Provide a better task switcher because the current bar wastes a lot of screen space when it could, instead, play the horizontal flip animation and display a scrollable grid with "running" apps and a specific background image so that people wouldn't confuse it with the home screen;
Make home screen pages and folders scrollable so that the number of apps in them is not limited by screen size;
Stop using an entire page just for spotlight, it is extremely wasteful and ugly, especially on the iPad, and the functionality could and should be integrated with the status bar at the top of the screen, like on OS X (pressing the home button in any page of the home screen should make the search box appear without switching to any other page);
Have a usable accessibility zoom because the 3-finger double/tapping and dragging is a very bad approach that conflicts with some multitouch apps, including Apple's own,Garage Band (I've suggested holding the power button while zooming with pinch / spread or panning with a single finger to address this);
Make the theme on default apps consistently dark or bright in order to provide a consistent experience when White on Black mode is activated (don't even get me started about how terrible Game Center's skeuomorphic design is in this regard);
Make it easier to attach multiple images and other kinds of documents to E-mail messages (currently, a copy/paste is required, which is very hard to do on iOS);
Make whatever place Archived messages are sent to easily accessible, or prompt before archiving;
Add the ability to define multiple conditions to reminders (I may want to be reminded about something every day between two dates whenever I arrive and leave a location);
Allow users to choose between sorting reminders by priority, due date, or any permutation of the two;
Keep completed reminders in the same screen, possibly at the bottom;
Make it possible to zoom into applications designed for mobile browsers when accessibility zoom is active using the pinch / spread / drag gestures directly on Safari, just like Pictures automatically extends the zoom caps when it detects that accessibility zoom is enabled;
Allow applications to detect the status of all accessibility options in order to provide a better experience to people with accessibility needs (a pictures / video app nay wish to detect whether accessibility zoom or black on white modes are enabled in order to extend zoom caps or invert the colors on displayed images);
Allow third-party applications to integrated with Siri using plugin modules (or bundles, in Darwin lingo);
Allow third-party applications other than VoIP services to bind and wake up on certain events, including but not limited to notifications, time, location, power status, and system events.
Knowing this site as well as I do, the answer to this will be "then you're not looking for iOS", so I'm going to refute it right now by stating that yes I am looking for iOS, I like iOS for the most part, but these are the things that make me jailbreak.
OLED displays have shown to be color inconsistent and many tests on calibrations show that they're way off. The only mobile display that passed color tests? iPad and iPhones
That's not a problem with the technology; it's a problem with its implementation. In theory, OLED is actually more capable of representing ARGB correctly than LCD, because unlike the latter, OLED does not have contrast, white leaking, and color shifting issues (for instance, black in OLED is actually black in its true meaning of absence of light, not a dark shade of gray).
Well, there are 17 pasty-faced basement dwellers who want the ability to multitask 14 separate apps. Apple needs to address those demands or they will forever be branded as not customer-oriented enough.
Mind explaining the 7 million iOS 6 jailbreaks, then? It's obvious to me that to a large portion of iDevice owners, the vanilla iOS isn't good enough, and before mentioning piracy, let me remind you that jailbreaking predates the iTunes App Store as well as that Installous is now gone.
As to people whining about multitasking, I have yet to see someone give a compelling reason why you'd need to run multiple Apps on your phone. Usually they don't understand what multitasking is or how it's implemented on an iPhone.
Actually, you're the one who does not understand what multitasking is (as I will demonstrate below). Technically, multitasking is about time sharing among multiple processes in the same system.
iOS is a fully pre-emptive multi-threaded, multitasking OS. Apple has made a choice not to allow Apps free reign to run.
All modern operating systems are pre-emptive multi threaded, with preemptive meaning that the kernel can interrupt a running process at any time and either execute some code of its own or switch to another process without those processes having to explicitly yield control back to the kernel. This has nothing to do with iOS' definition of "multi tasking", which includes applications that aren't even resident in system memory (let alone running) or backing store (which iOS doesn't implement either).
The important word here is choice. Haters will try and spin it to say that iOS has an inferior architecture to Android which is simply not true. Apple could enable multitasking for Apps as simple as flipping a switch since iOS already supports it. Apple just limits what Apps can do for the sake of battery life and performance/responsiveness. Again, it's simply a choice made by Apple, not a limitation of the OS itself.
Apple may not have a limitation, but users do. As a user, I have no switch to flip in vanilla iOS; that's the limitation.
Apple's method of handling multitasking is actually very good. There are only certain things people really need to be able to do at the same time. Phone calls, music/audio, e-mail, notifications and so on. Apple has services to handle all these, so if you have a Music App you can enable the ability to play music in the background (multitask) simply by using the service Apple provides. This is far more efficient than having an entire App multitasking when only a small portion of its functionality actually needs to multitask. It also makes developers think a little bit about what they want to achieve to write more efficient code than simply taking the "well, the OS will multitask my App for me, so I don't really have to code any special behavioirs for it".
Nope, you may only have a few cases in which you need true multitasking, but don't make that a general rule, because that's far from true. For example, I'd like to have the ability to allow Colloquy to stay connected to IRC for more than 10 minutes without having to keep it running in the foreground, but on iOS I can't. Yes, I know, it protects battery life, but can I at least have a choice? Make it a shell command if you will (see my improvement suggestions above), so that regular users won't activate it by accident, but make it available! Empower the power users!
Also, why do people defending Apple choose to attack Android so much? Pointing out defects in Apple products doesn't mean I'm defending Android or any other platform, and honestly, if Apple's excuse for doing X poorly is because other vendors also do X poorly, then the innovative Apple is truly died with Jobs. One of Jobs' best traits was his perfectionism, his ability to look at his own accomplishments with a critical eye and come up with ways to correct their flaws. I'd rather see Apple apologize all the time for their own flaws and continue to offer the best experience on the block than go down in flaims while claiming to be the best at everything under the sun.
Why does my OS need "excitement"? Isn't that the job of the apps?
When your OS comes bundled with default apps that can't be uninstalled or replaced, it binds itself to the same rules that govern third-party apps, even more so, because the first-party apps enjoy more privileges.
I don't get the OLED craze. My iPhone 5's LCD screen rocks.
OLED has an infinite contrast ratio, and it can be used to do pretty stuff like display very dim screen savers with useful information that don't drain almost any battery power. You can do awesome things with OLED while conserving power, especially if you make the default theme black (I never understood Apple's and the web's obsession with bright themes).
Mulittasking is a little misleading. First off, if you double click on the Home Button, it brings up that apps that are currently "Running". That is what multiasking is. It's running multiple apps at the same time. If you want to "quit" an app because you have too many running, then you press and hold until the icons jiggle and then delete those that you don't want running at the same time.
Actually, most apps in there are neither running nor even resident in memory. Their presence there only determines what kind of event they receive when they're actually run, either from the home screen, spotlight, or task bar, information that they can use to decide whether to restore their previous state (usually, but not always, from Core Data, which is essentially SQLite on steroids) or start anew.
Another thing to consider is that these ARM chips are STILL 32 Bit and it may take another year or so until they start releasing 64 bit ARM chips, so they can only do so much, especially since battery life is important, but Apple still has excellent chip design as compared to others.
While a 64bit CPU can offer certain advantages, those would be negligible in this particular case. The biggest issues right now are power management and RAM.
ImPacTor, excellent post. You hit every single complaint I have with iOS and also many others that are just great ideas. Like you I really do like iOS but am frustrated at just how good it could become. It amazes me that more Apple fans like us don't see these weaknesses and want Apple to fix these shortcomings instead of simply telling us to buy Android. Well done sir.
Nope, it is stable but also quite stale. Not mutually contradictory. When I can move the cursor where I want to easily, or even scroll to the bottom of a webpage without a dozen flicks I will stop calling it stale. Even a backspace key (not backspace delete btw) would be a nice change. What is really different between iOS 3 and iOS 6? I don't want change for the sake of change, I want Apple to address some very serious shortcomings and make some substantial improvements to make it easier and faster to accomplish common tasks. There are many areas Apple needs to make some very substantial changes or additions.
This post is perfectly fine. As such, I've restored it. I apologize to you, here, publicly, for its deletion. It was in haste, borne of its proximity to the other post. You have outlined specific reasons for your belief, and as such you should of course be able to state it. The other post, however, claims only that "iOS is stale", without giving reasons. That's what we're trying to avoid; that FUD.
I don't agree with your cutoff for calling iOS stale in this post, nor do I agree that it is at all stale in the first place. But you have presented your argument here with truthful examples of lacking features to back it, and as such it should remain as part of the discussion.
Do you really know what cmyk is? Maybe you should read up on subtractive light.
There is no black light! And K stands for black dye for printing process only because of impurities from dyes mixed from cmy can not guarantee a pure black.
Lcds are additive and only 'subtractive' to filter out the 3 primary additive colours red green and blue, not cyan magenta yellow which are secondary additive colours. If all 3 are not masked then resultant output is still white, because each pixel is made up of not one light but three primary lights. That is why if you zoom into an LCD screen you see 3 primaries.
It is certainly not the same as printing. As light is absorbed and reflected.
There is one thing similar with process printing, that is the colour is made up by fooling our eye in believing we see variations in colour when the reality is inks printed in tiny dots at different angles and densities.
I knew when I posted originally somebody would read what I posted, then assume I was confused because they didn't read it right - then get smarmy.
There is no 'black light' on additive colorspaces indeed. But that's my original point, 'black' in an RGB colorspace is nothing at all, i.e. zero.
But LCD's are always 'on,' aren't they? Backlight is always going, they are never at zero when turned on. In other words, an LCD's version of 'black' emits light (look at your iPhone displaying an RGB = 0 image in the dark, is it black?) and is a fundamental weakness of any backlit display technology.
What's more, since you start with a max color temp established by your display's backlight, any color you render through an LCD is subtracted from that absolute color - just like printing on a white sheet of paper. OLED's - just like plasmas and CRT's - add colors from a true zero. An OLED's absolute black is dark as the display when the device is turned off (try same experiment with RGB = 0 image on Samscum SIII Galaxy in the dark, you will find true black).
I'll learn 'what the hell I'm talking about' when you learn how to comprehend what you read beyond the grammar. Try reading my original post again.
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.1875px;">I knew when I posted originally somebody would read what I posted, then assume I was confused because they didn't read it right - then get smarmy.</span>
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.1875px;">There is no 'black light' on additive colorspaces indeed. But that's my original point, 'black' in an RGB colorspace is nothing at all, i.e. zero.</span>
<span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18.1875px;">But LCD's are always 'on,' aren't they? Backlight is always going, they are never at zero when turned on. In other words, an LCD's version of 'black' emits light (look at your iPhone displaying an RGB = 0 image in the dark, is it black?) and is a fundamental weakness of any backlit display technology.</span>
What's more, since you start with a max color temp established by your display's backlight, any color you render through an LCD is subtracted from that absolute color - just like printing on a white sheet of paper. OLED's - just like plasmas and CRT's - add colors from a true zero. An OLED's absolute black is dark as the display when the device is turned off (try same experiment with RGB = 0 image on Samscum SIII Galaxy in the dark, you will find true black).
I'll learn 'what the hell I'm talking about' when you learn how to comprehend what you read beyond the grammar. Try reading my original post again.
Of course the gist of your point is all pro OLED. If you read my post, I was not arguing against it. Maybe you should check dictionary on the word grammar.
From your 'original' quote:
But intrinsically, LCD's are a mish-mash of colorspaces - they take an RGB signal (adding up from black to white) and physically render it CMYK (subract from an absolute whitespace - the backlight - to the color desired, like an inket printing on paper).
You are the one using wrong terms. I already explained what was wrong but of course you ignore it and say your point is all correct.
CMYK is process printing colours -Cyan Magenta Yellow and black hence my explanation before, there is no 'K' in additive colour or even subtractive colour. It is a printing term
Secondly, your analogy to printing on paper is incorrect.
Printing, either as basic process or over printing, absorbs light and bounces at different wavelengths depending on what is absorbed. Obviously 100% = black.
(As a side note: a lot of the time 100K alone will not create a deep black so 40% cyan is typically used to make it richer without causing tearing to paper)
Anyway, LCDs use various backlights like CCFL, WLED and another called RGB-LED which does away with the extra layer of colour films. Either way, the resultant image is created using additive colour.
So LCD does not:
- mishmash colour spaces
- render RGB from CMYK
- do the same as printing
The hard contrasts and garish colors on Samsung OLED phones (and it happens) are not a result of weakness in the display tech, but the display tech being too vicious and accurate with content designed and calibrated to look good on inferior displays. A good analogy is a MacBook Retina display with non-retina programs - it looks like crap because of the source, not the display.
Reading back, what you said before is not entirely true either.
As is the same with other wide gamut displays - if you view content which does not use colour profiling, results would be skewed. Lot of content viewed on browsers look gaudy as a result.
The bigger reason samsung amoled looks over saturated is because it is not properly calibrated and over compensates the shorter green light lifespan with larger green subpixel. If you read up on colour tests it shows inaccurate colour reproduction.
Of course the gist of your point is all pro OLED. If you read my post, I was not arguing against it. Maybe you should check dictionary on the word grammar.
From your 'original' quote:
You are the one using wrong terms. I already explained what was wrong but of course you ignore it and say your point is all correct.
CMYK is process printing colours -Cyan Magenta Yellow and black hence my explanation before, there is no 'K' in additive colour or even subtractive colour. It is a printing term
Secondly, your analogy to printing on paper is incorrect.
Printing, either as basic process or over printing, absorbs light and bounces at different wavelengths depending on what is absorbed. Obviously 100% = black.
(As a side note: a lot of the time 100K alone will not create a deep black so 40% cyan is typically used to make it richer without causing tearing to paper)
Anyway, LCDs use various backlights like CCFL, WLED and another called RGB-LED which does away with the extra layer of colour films. Either way, the resultant image is created using additive colour.
So LCD does not:
- mishmash colour spaces
- render RGB from CMYK
- do the same as printing
Oh boy, where to start here. Printing on (white) paper as an analogy for LCD screens rendering colors is perfectly apt - you take a point of maximum values as your constant (the backlight or the paper), then subtract from that constant into your desired color by filtering with chemicals that absorb (not emit) certain colors. That is exact opposite of displays that make their own light making their colors, and that is exact physical opposite of 'additive color' as you describe.
And to my original point, that is a problem with LCD monitors rendering an RGB colorspace. There is interpolation processing going on there to take an additive value and convert it into a proxy subtracted from the backlight - and one of the reasons firmware updates can make an LCD monitor's color rendering better.
Matter of fact, one thing I learned from this little exchange reading up on the subject is that TN displays can't even physically display true 24-bit color, they dither 6-bit RGB channels into a faux 24-bit gamut. There's tons more back-end fakery with LCD monitors processing images than I thought.
So again back to my original point, LCD's subtracting colors with additive colorspaces developed for CRT's some time ago (NTSC is old as dirt) have to do some tricks to make that work - in other words they mishmash colorspaces to physically function. I stand by my original contention.
And just for the record I don't hate LCD's, they are great display technology. IPS panel in my 13" rMBP I ordered yesterday I am sure will be quite spectacular when it arrives. But all tech has strengths and weaknesses.
I have questions about OLEDs. Are they really better than LED lit LCDs? Well, logically, the fact that OLEDs don't require a backlight is very interesting. The fact that colors are not created by the display by subtracting from the colors inevitably provided by the backlight is also very appealing to me. But, I got to admit that IPhone displays are sweet. However, I think that has more to do with the fact that they have a ppi of 326 vs. my Galaxy S3’s 306. Also, I do have to admit that my screen does look way too green when I watch movies and I don’t think it is due to the images themselves. I think it happens because of the Pen Tile that Samsung uses rather than the RGB that Apple and most other phones use. I think that and RGB OLED screen should be better than an RGB LCD. But I want to be sure of it.
I forgot to say that although my friend’s IPhone 5’s screen is really cool, there is something off on it. Something about my Galaxy S3 seems superior and it’s not its clarity or sharpness. I think it’s its OLED screen. The screen on my Galaxy seems to be very even-balanced whereas the IPhone’s seems off at times.
This thread about OLED's vs. LCD's has been both interesting and informative, and motivated me to actually take a look at various devices. I work in mobile tech, and have access to a library containing basically every relevant device. So, I compared displays last Friday. Contenders? Galaxy Nexus (OLED), Nexus 4 (LCD), Lumia 920 (OLED), and iPhone 5 (LCD).
I compared websites on the devices. My "favorite" common one is CNN, because of the reds they use in their branding. The winner? Windows Phone 8 on the Lumia believe it or not. The Nexus 4 and iPhone 5 are tied for a close second. The distant loser is the Galaxy Nexus. Whatever the display pipeline in a Galaxy Nexus, it leaves a blue tinge on things. But the same OS on the Nexus 4 looks more-or-less as good as an iPhone 5, which is to say exceptional to my subjective perception.
But to my surprise, Microsoft/Nokia seems to have done their homework. The Lumia 920 has an accurate gamut and enjoys the contrast and pop inherent to its OLED display. I am not sure about a Galaxy SIII (or a Note II), so I will check those out on Monday.
Comments
He means "excrement"
A phone OS should not be an app launch tool. It should be in-yo-face with lots of, um, excitement. And stuff. Lots of stuff. And animation. So you know it's there. Sucking down battery life.
Do you really know what cmyk is? Maybe you should read up on subtractive light.
There is no black light! And K stands for black dye for printing process only because of impurities from dyes mixed from cmy can not guarantee a pure black.
Lcds are additive and only 'subtractive' to filter out the 3 primary additive colours red green and blue, not cyan magenta yellow which are secondary additive colours. If all 3 are not masked then resultant output is still white, because each pixel is made up of not one light but three primary lights. That is why if you zoom into an LCD screen you see 3 primaries.
It is certainly not the same as printing. As light is absorbed and reflected.
There is one thing similar with process printing, that is the colour is made up by fooling our eye in believing we see variations in colour when the reality is inks printed in tiny dots at different angles and densities.
I understand that some people like having different apps opened at the same time on the screen, I don't see the point in that if you can switch with a gesture of the hand.
Well, I'd like the following abilities / changes (just from the top of my head):
Knowing this site as well as I do, the answer to this will be "then you're not looking for iOS", so I'm going to refute it right now by stating that yes I am looking for iOS, I like iOS for the most part, but these are the things that make me jailbreak.
That's not a problem with the technology; it's a problem with its implementation. In theory, OLED is actually more capable of representing ARGB correctly than LCD, because unlike the latter, OLED does not have contrast, white leaking, and color shifting issues (for instance, black in OLED is actually black in its true meaning of absence of light, not a dark shade of gray).
Mind explaining the 7 million iOS 6 jailbreaks, then? It's obvious to me that to a large portion of iDevice owners, the vanilla iOS isn't good enough, and before mentioning piracy, let me remind you that jailbreaking predates the iTunes App Store as well as that Installous is now gone.
Actually, you're the one who does not understand what multitasking is (as I will demonstrate below). Technically, multitasking is about time sharing among multiple processes in the same system.
All modern operating systems are pre-emptive multi threaded, with preemptive meaning that the kernel can interrupt a running process at any time and either execute some code of its own or switch to another process without those processes having to explicitly yield control back to the kernel. This has nothing to do with iOS' definition of "multi tasking", which includes applications that aren't even resident in system memory (let alone running) or backing store (which iOS doesn't implement either).
Apple may not have a limitation, but users do. As a user, I have no switch to flip in vanilla iOS; that's the limitation.
Nope, you may only have a few cases in which you need true multitasking, but don't make that a general rule, because that's far from true. For example, I'd like to have the ability to allow Colloquy to stay connected to IRC for more than 10 minutes without having to keep it running in the foreground, but on iOS I can't. Yes, I know, it protects battery life, but can I at least have a choice? Make it a shell command if you will (see my improvement suggestions above), so that regular users won't activate it by accident, but make it available! Empower the power users!
Also, why do people defending Apple choose to attack Android so much? Pointing out defects in Apple products doesn't mean I'm defending Android or any other platform, and honestly, if Apple's excuse for doing X poorly is because other vendors also do X poorly, then the innovative Apple is truly died with Jobs. One of Jobs' best traits was his perfectionism, his ability to look at his own accomplishments with a critical eye and come up with ways to correct their flaws. I'd rather see Apple apologize all the time for their own flaws and continue to offer the best experience on the block than go down in flaims while claiming to be the best at everything under the sun.
When your OS comes bundled with default apps that can't be uninstalled or replaced, it binds itself to the same rules that govern third-party apps, even more so, because the first-party apps enjoy more privileges.
OLED has an infinite contrast ratio, and it can be used to do pretty stuff like display very dim screen savers with useful information that don't drain almost any battery power. You can do awesome things with OLED while conserving power, especially if you make the default theme black (I never understood Apple's and the web's obsession with bright themes).
Actually, most apps in there are neither running nor even resident in memory. Their presence there only determines what kind of event they receive when they're actually run, either from the home screen, spotlight, or task bar, information that they can use to decide whether to restore their previous state (usually, but not always, from Core Data, which is essentially SQLite on steroids) or start anew.
While a 64bit CPU can offer certain advantages, those would be negligible in this particular case. The biggest issues right now are power management and RAM.
ImPacTor, excellent post. You hit every single complaint I have with iOS and also many others that are just great ideas. Like you I really do like iOS but am frustrated at just how good it could become. It amazes me that more Apple fans like us don't see these weaknesses and want Apple to fix these shortcomings instead of simply telling us to buy Android. Well done sir.
Originally Posted by gwmac
Nope, it is stable but also quite stale. Not mutually contradictory. When I can move the cursor where I want to easily, or even scroll to the bottom of a webpage without a dozen flicks I will stop calling it stale. Even a backspace key (not backspace delete btw) would be a nice change. What is really different between iOS 3 and iOS 6? I don't want change for the sake of change, I want Apple to address some very serious shortcomings and make some substantial improvements to make it easier and faster to accomplish common tasks. There are many areas Apple needs to make some very substantial changes or additions.
This post is perfectly fine. As such, I've restored it. I apologize to you, here, publicly, for its deletion. It was in haste, borne of its proximity to the other post. You have outlined specific reasons for your belief, and as such you should of course be able to state it. The other post, however, claims only that "iOS is stale", without giving reasons. That's what we're trying to avoid; that FUD.
I don't agree with your cutoff for calling iOS stale in this post, nor do I agree that it is at all stale in the first place. But you have presented your argument here with truthful examples of lacking features to back it, and as such it should remain as part of the discussion.
Originally Posted by Fillie
What the hell you talking about?
Do you really know what cmyk is? Maybe you should read up on subtractive light.
There is no black light! And K stands for black dye for printing process only because of impurities from dyes mixed from cmy can not guarantee a pure black.
Lcds are additive and only 'subtractive' to filter out the 3 primary additive colours red green and blue, not cyan magenta yellow which are secondary additive colours. If all 3 are not masked then resultant output is still white, because each pixel is made up of not one light but three primary lights. That is why if you zoom into an LCD screen you see 3 primaries.
It is certainly not the same as printing. As light is absorbed and reflected.
There is one thing similar with process printing, that is the colour is made up by fooling our eye in believing we see variations in colour when the reality is inks printed in tiny dots at different angles and densities.
I knew when I posted originally somebody would read what I posted, then assume I was confused because they didn't read it right - then get smarmy.
There is no 'black light' on additive colorspaces indeed. But that's my original point, 'black' in an RGB colorspace is nothing at all, i.e. zero.
But LCD's are always 'on,' aren't they? Backlight is always going, they are never at zero when turned on. In other words, an LCD's version of 'black' emits light (look at your iPhone displaying an RGB = 0 image in the dark, is it black?) and is a fundamental weakness of any backlit display technology.
What's more, since you start with a max color temp established by your display's backlight, any color you render through an LCD is subtracted from that absolute color - just like printing on a white sheet of paper. OLED's - just like plasmas and CRT's - add colors from a true zero. An OLED's absolute black is dark as the display when the device is turned off (try same experiment with RGB = 0 image on Samscum SIII Galaxy in the dark, you will find true black).
I'll learn 'what the hell I'm talking about' when you learn how to comprehend what you read beyond the grammar. Try reading my original post again.
Insulting users in your second post isn't the best thing to do.
But an insult that was well deserved. Fillie's arrogance bit him in the butt.
Originally Posted by Noliving
But an insult that was well deserved. Fillie's arrogance bit him in the butt.
The best way to counter arrogance is being right where they're wrong. Arbitrary justification or no.
This is all a chuckle... within 3 years most of the flagship phones will be flexible, "rolled-up" screens.
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Insulting users in your second post isn't the best thing to do.
Insulting somebody's very first post in a forum, unless they're making some egregious insult or trolling, is even worse.
From your 'original' quote:
You are the one using wrong terms. I already explained what was wrong but of course you ignore it and say your point is all correct.
CMYK is process printing colours -Cyan Magenta Yellow and black hence my explanation before, there is no 'K' in additive colour or even subtractive colour. It is a printing term
Secondly, your analogy to printing on paper is incorrect.
Printing, either as basic process or over printing, absorbs light and bounces at different wavelengths depending on what is absorbed. Obviously 100% = black.
(As a side note: a lot of the time 100K alone will not create a deep black so 40% cyan is typically used to make it richer without causing tearing to paper)
Anyway, LCDs use various backlights like CCFL, WLED and another called RGB-LED which does away with the extra layer of colour films. Either way, the resultant image is created using additive colour.
So LCD does not:
- mishmash colour spaces
- render RGB from CMYK
- do the same as printing
Reading back, what you said before is not entirely true either.
As is the same with other wide gamut displays - if you view content which does not use colour profiling, results would be skewed. Lot of content viewed on browsers look gaudy as a result.
The bigger reason samsung amoled looks over saturated is because it is not properly calibrated and over compensates the shorter green light lifespan with larger green subpixel. If you read up on colour tests it shows inaccurate colour reproduction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillie
Of course the gist of your point is all pro OLED. If you read my post, I was not arguing against it. Maybe you should check dictionary on the word grammar.
From your 'original' quote:
You are the one using wrong terms. I already explained what was wrong but of course you ignore it and say your point is all correct.
CMYK is process printing colours -Cyan Magenta Yellow and black hence my explanation before, there is no 'K' in additive colour or even subtractive colour. It is a printing term
Secondly, your analogy to printing on paper is incorrect.
Printing, either as basic process or over printing, absorbs light and bounces at different wavelengths depending on what is absorbed. Obviously 100% = black.
(As a side note: a lot of the time 100K alone will not create a deep black so 40% cyan is typically used to make it richer without causing tearing to paper)
Anyway, LCDs use various backlights like CCFL, WLED and another called RGB-LED which does away with the extra layer of colour films. Either way, the resultant image is created using additive colour.
So LCD does not:
- mishmash colour spaces
- render RGB from CMYK
- do the same as printing
Oh boy, where to start here. Printing on (white) paper as an analogy for LCD screens rendering colors is perfectly apt - you take a point of maximum values as your constant (the backlight or the paper), then subtract from that constant into your desired color by filtering with chemicals that absorb (not emit) certain colors. That is exact opposite of displays that make their own light making their colors, and that is exact physical opposite of 'additive color' as you describe.
And to my original point, that is a problem with LCD monitors rendering an RGB colorspace. There is interpolation processing going on there to take an additive value and convert it into a proxy subtracted from the backlight - and one of the reasons firmware updates can make an LCD monitor's color rendering better.
Matter of fact, one thing I learned from this little exchange reading up on the subject is that TN displays can't even physically display true 24-bit color, they dither 6-bit RGB channels into a faux 24-bit gamut. There's tons more back-end fakery with LCD monitors processing images than I thought.
So again back to my original point, LCD's subtracting colors with additive colorspaces developed for CRT's some time ago (NTSC is old as dirt) have to do some tricks to make that work - in other words they mishmash colorspaces to physically function. I stand by my original contention.
And just for the record I don't hate LCD's, they are great display technology. IPS panel in my 13" rMBP I ordered yesterday I am sure will be quite spectacular when it arrives. But all tech has strengths and weaknesses.
I have questions about OLEDs. Are they really better than LED lit LCDs? Well, logically, the fact that OLEDs don't require a backlight is very interesting. The fact that colors are not created by the display by subtracting from the colors inevitably provided by the backlight is also very appealing to me. But, I got to admit that IPhone displays are sweet. However, I think that has more to do with the fact that they have a ppi of 326 vs. my Galaxy S3’s 306. Also, I do have to admit that my screen does look way too green when I watch movies and I don’t think it is due to the images themselves. I think it happens because of the Pen Tile that Samsung uses rather than the RGB that Apple and most other phones use. I think that and RGB OLED screen should be better than an RGB LCD. But I want to be sure of it.
I forgot to say that although my friend’s IPhone 5’s screen is really cool, there is something off on it. Something about my Galaxy S3 seems superior and it’s not its clarity or sharpness. I think it’s its OLED screen. The screen on my Galaxy seems to be very even-balanced whereas the IPhone’s seems off at times.
This thread about OLED's vs. LCD's has been both interesting and informative, and motivated me to actually take a look at various devices. I work in mobile tech, and have access to a library containing basically every relevant device. So, I compared displays last Friday. Contenders? Galaxy Nexus (OLED), Nexus 4 (LCD), Lumia 920 (OLED), and iPhone 5 (LCD).
I compared websites on the devices. My "favorite" common one is CNN, because of the reds they use in their branding. The winner? Windows Phone 8 on the Lumia believe it or not. The Nexus 4 and iPhone 5 are tied for a close second. The distant loser is the Galaxy Nexus. Whatever the display pipeline in a Galaxy Nexus, it leaves a blue tinge on things. But the same OS on the Nexus 4 looks more-or-less as good as an iPhone 5, which is to say exceptional to my subjective perception.
But to my surprise, Microsoft/Nokia seems to have done their homework. The Lumia 920 has an accurate gamut and enjoys the contrast and pop inherent to its OLED display. I am not sure about a Galaxy SIII (or a Note II), so I will check those out on Monday.