Just Blacklist all of their IP Addresses and be done with it....
That would be one method however it would have to be done by the government at the highest level of the router tables. A private company could block the IPs but foreign nationals in the US would still be able to set up local proxy servers to circumvent the blacklist.
Too bad the US saw it fit to give away the Internet. If Internic still had control it could be easily accomplished however now a ban would probably be considered a violation of international law and a complaint would be filed at the UN. The UN already wants to take even more control over the Internet.
In my opinion the Internet should be similar to the visa system. Block all foreign access until a request is submitted to our embassy in their country and after being approved, their IP address would be unblocked.
Start by enforcing our trade rules. No more dumping of Chinese products below cost in order to drive US manufacturers out of business. No more currency manipulation (which accounts for a huge percentage of the growth of Chinese business over the past couple of decades). Require all their products to be tested for contamination (heavy metals in jewelry, juice products, etc).
Simply insist that they follow the same rules as everyone else. And in direct retaliation for their conspiracy, demand that the government shut down every one of the facilities involved in these thefts. If the government refuses to cooperate, start adding 1% tariffs to every imported Chinese product with the amount increasing by 1% per month until they comply.
It would either fix the problem or do wonders for our budget deficit. Either way, we win.
The NSA hacked/spied on Airbus negotiations with a large potential customer and passed the information on to Boeing and McDonal Douglas to help them win the enormous contract.
Pot, Kettle, black.
Care to cite some evidence and specifics?
The only thing I could find is when the NSA found evidence that Airbus had been bribing Saudi officials and they released that information. This is quite different from what the Chinese are doing for a number of reasons:
1. By bribing Saudi officials, Airbus had committed a crime and NSA was simply reporting on criminal activity. China is not looking for evidence of criminal activity - rather, they are engaging in criminal activity.
2. Airbus' crime was creating an unfair trade situation and NSA was acting to level the playing field. China, OTOH, is using their hacking to create an unlevel playing field.
3. From the reports I read, NSA was reading public information such as unencrypted cell phone conversations. If you take out an ad in the Wall Street Journal, you can't complain that someone read it. NSA was reading information off the airwaves. China, OTOH, was actually engaging in criminal trespass and DMCA violations.
Time to really start dealing with these people. We are too cozy with them. Screw them. We don't need their money or cheap crap. Plenty of countries can take their place. No more business no more money to try to take us down.
Absolutely not. Stop trying to "deal with these people" - it's just perpetuating the cycle. The US is hardly blameless in this. Back in the 50s/60s there were calls just to nuke Russia to deal with them. Who are you to judge? It's better to have foreign countries as friends, trade with them, swap ideas and cultures. Sometimes relationships will get rough, but realize that all countries have their spies.
We don't need more Koreas, Vietnams, Afghanistans, Iraqs. Such 'dealing with people' never has a clean conclusion.
What are you going to do about it, other than misrepresent what (supposedly all) Americans think, as if the entire country was united under one stereotype (of chest-thumping xenophobes)?
My fault, I was responding to Apple II and his idiotic post, but instead got the AI article instead. So I'm not blaming all Americans just Apple II, although if comes across that I was.
Absolutely not. Stop trying to "deal with these people" - it's just perpetuating the cycle. The US is hardly blameless in this. Back in the 50s/60s there were calls just to nuke Russia to deal with them. Who are you to judge? It's better to have foreign countries as friends, trade with them, swap ideas and cultures. Sometimes relationships will get rough, but realize that all countries have their spies.
We don't need more Koreas, Vietnams, Afghanistans, Iraqs. Such 'dealing with people' never has a clean conclusion.
In the US it's against the law for the public to listen in on and record cell phone conversations, even unencrypted ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
3. From the reports I read, NSA was reading public information such as unencrypted cell phone conversations. If you take out an ad in the Wall Street Journal, you can't complain that someone read it. NSA was reading information off the airwaves. China, OTOH, was actually engaging in criminal trespass and DMCA violations.
The only thing I could find is when the NSA found evidence that Airbus had been bribing Saudi officials and they released that information. This is quite different from what the Chinese are doing for a number of reasons:
1. By bribing Saudi officials, Airbus had committed a crime and NSA was simply reporting on criminal activity. China is not looking for evidence of criminal activity - rather, they are engaging in criminal activity.
2. Airbus' crime was creating an unfair trade situation and NSA was acting to level the playing field. China, OTOH, is using their hacking to create an unlevel playing field.
3. From the reports I read, NSA was reading public information such as unencrypted cell phone conversations. If you take out an ad in the Wall Street Journal, you can't complain that someone read it. NSA was reading information off the airwaves. China, OTOH, was actually engaging in criminal trespass and DMCA violations.
Gladly:
Quote:
Glyn Ford. [Source: British Labour Party]The European Parliament releases its final report on its findings about the secretive US surveillance program known as Echelon. The report, two years in the making, exhaustively details many of Echelon’s surveillance capabilities, and lists many of Echelon’s surveillance stations around the world. One of the more interesting sections of the report concerns its apparent use on behalf of US corporations. According to the report, Echelon—operated by the NSA as a highly classified surveillance program ostensibly for tracking terrorist threats and activities by nations hostile to the West—is also being used for corporate and industrial espionage, with information from the program being turned over to US corporations for their financial advantage. The report gives several instances of Echelon’s use by corporations. One is the use of Echelon to “lift… all the faxes and phone calls” between the European aircraft manufacturer Airbus and Saudi Arabian Airlines; that information was used by two American companies, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas, to outflank Airbus and win a $6 billion contract. The report also alleges that the French company Thomson-CSF lost a $1.3 billion satellite deal to Raytheon the same way.....In 1977, the US government began providing Echelon-based intelligence to US corporations (see 1977). In April 2001, New Zealand journalist Nicky Hager testified about Echelon’s use by US allies for corporate and economic purposes (see April 2001), and former CIA director James Woolsey confirmed that US surveillance programs were used to benefit US corporations (see March 2000).
You seem to suffer from the same hubris your government does, namely the belief that the laws of the USA should apply to everyone and every nation on Earth. While I don't approve of bribery or corruption, they are standard fare in many countries and the legality or illegality is for those countries to determine via their legal standards, not the US.
Much as I detest the festering S*** hole that is Saudi Arabia, it really is for their government to declare and act on illegality.
Start by enforcing our trade rules. No more dumping of Chinese products below cost in order to drive US manufacturers out of business. No more currency manipulation (which accounts for a huge percentage of the growth of Chinese business over the past couple of decades). Require all their products to be tested for contamination (heavy metals in jewelry, juice products, etc).
Simply insist that they follow the same rules as everyone else. And in direct retaliation for their conspiracy, demand that the government shut down every one of the facilities involved in these thefts. If the government refuses to cooperate, start adding 1% tariffs to every imported Chinese product with the amount increasing by 1% per month until they comply.
It would either fix the problem or do wonders for our budget deficit. Either way, we win.
You are mistaken, it was the West who decided that China could do their manufacturing for them, and not the other way round. Economically, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to reverse this.
I do agree that the quality of many Chinese manufactured products are lower than what is expected in the West, and
breach many safety standards. I am resigned to the fact that we, the West dug a hole for ourselves, a very deep one, with slippery slopes.
But at what point do we retaliate against bullying? One punch... ok, that stung, but I am willing to look the other way... Second punch, that hurt a little more, but again I'm willing to look the other way... 1000s of punches later, do we still look the other way and let China walk all over us like a doormat? There is a saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Im not declaring the US innocent here, but the general mentality in China is "do you [USA] fear us?". My father in law went to China regularly on business trips, and almost every time someone on the street walked up to him and asked him a similar or related question. China wants us to fear them because then they would have power over us. Im all about letting China well enough alone, but not if it means we have to live in fear and abuse from them.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dontuwish
Just Blacklist all of their IP Addresses and be done with it....
That would be one method however it would have to be done by the government at the highest level of the router tables. A private company could block the IPs but foreign nationals in the US would still be able to set up local proxy servers to circumvent the blacklist.
Too bad the US saw it fit to give away the Internet. If Internic still had control it could be easily accomplished however now a ban would probably be considered a violation of international law and a complaint would be filed at the UN. The UN already wants to take even more control over the Internet.
In my opinion the Internet should be similar to the visa system. Block all foreign access until a request is submitted to our embassy in their country and after being approved, their IP address would be unblocked.
I can dream, right?
New reports tonight say the Obama administration is formulating a proper response.
US ready to strike back against China cyberattacks
http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20130219/c9026228-45b8-48eb-9d0a-29e2c49399d6
Start by enforcing our trade rules. No more dumping of Chinese products below cost in order to drive US manufacturers out of business. No more currency manipulation (which accounts for a huge percentage of the growth of Chinese business over the past couple of decades). Require all their products to be tested for contamination (heavy metals in jewelry, juice products, etc).
Simply insist that they follow the same rules as everyone else. And in direct retaliation for their conspiracy, demand that the government shut down every one of the facilities involved in these thefts. If the government refuses to cooperate, start adding 1% tariffs to every imported Chinese product with the amount increasing by 1% per month until they comply.
It would either fix the problem or do wonders for our budget deficit. Either way, we win.
Care to cite some evidence and specifics?
The only thing I could find is when the NSA found evidence that Airbus had been bribing Saudi officials and they released that information. This is quite different from what the Chinese are doing for a number of reasons:
1. By bribing Saudi officials, Airbus had committed a crime and NSA was simply reporting on criminal activity. China is not looking for evidence of criminal activity - rather, they are engaging in criminal activity.
2. Airbus' crime was creating an unfair trade situation and NSA was acting to level the playing field. China, OTOH, is using their hacking to create an unlevel playing field.
3. From the reports I read, NSA was reading public information such as unencrypted cell phone conversations. If you take out an ad in the Wall Street Journal, you can't complain that someone read it. NSA was reading information off the airwaves. China, OTOH, was actually engaging in criminal trespass and DMCA violations.
Like Noam Chomsky said the best way to prevent terrorism is to stop participating in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Yep, we know where the building is located and who is behind the attacks.
I say that we should retaliate big time. And then we can just play dumb and deny any involvement afterwards. When I say we, I mean the US of course.
Like Noam Chomsky said - the best way to prevent terrorism is to stop participating in it.
(Sorry should have quoted the original in the first place.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcguy
Time to really start dealing with these people. We are too cozy with them. Screw them. We don't need their money or cheap crap. Plenty of countries can take their place. No more business no more money to try to take us down.
Absolutely not. Stop trying to "deal with these people" - it's just perpetuating the cycle. The US is hardly blameless in this. Back in the 50s/60s there were calls just to nuke Russia to deal with them. Who are you to judge? It's better to have foreign countries as friends, trade with them, swap ideas and cultures. Sometimes relationships will get rough, but realize that all countries have their spies.
We don't need more Koreas, Vietnams, Afghanistans, Iraqs. Such 'dealing with people' never has a clean conclusion.
Just to clairify:
In the US it's against the law for the public to listen in on and record cell phone conversations, even unencrypted ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
3. From the reports I read, NSA was reading public information such as unencrypted cell phone conversations. If you take out an ad in the Wall Street Journal, you can't complain that someone read it. NSA was reading information off the airwaves. China, OTOH, was actually engaging in criminal trespass and DMCA violations.
Hmm, that seems to be true of just about everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijoyner
Like Noam Chomsky said the best way to prevent terrorism is to stop participating in it.
Can you clarify that because as stated it could mean that voicemail is illegal, which obviously it isn't. Do you mean as admissible in a court of law?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Care to cite some evidence and specifics?
The only thing I could find is when the NSA found evidence that Airbus had been bribing Saudi officials and they released that information. This is quite different from what the Chinese are doing for a number of reasons:
1. By bribing Saudi officials, Airbus had committed a crime and NSA was simply reporting on criminal activity. China is not looking for evidence of criminal activity - rather, they are engaging in criminal activity.
2. Airbus' crime was creating an unfair trade situation and NSA was acting to level the playing field. China, OTOH, is using their hacking to create an unlevel playing field.
3. From the reports I read, NSA was reading public information such as unencrypted cell phone conversations. If you take out an ad in the Wall Street Journal, you can't complain that someone read it. NSA was reading information off the airwaves. China, OTOH, was actually engaging in criminal trespass and DMCA violations.
Gladly:
Quote:
Glyn Ford. [Source: British Labour Party]The European Parliament releases its final report on its findings about the secretive US surveillance program known as Echelon. The report, two years in the making, exhaustively details many of Echelon’s surveillance capabilities, and lists many of Echelon’s surveillance stations around the world. One of the more interesting sections of the report concerns its apparent use on behalf of US corporations. According to the report, Echelon—operated by the NSA as a highly classified surveillance program ostensibly for tracking terrorist threats and activities by nations hostile to the West—is also being used for corporate and industrial espionage, with information from the program being turned over to US corporations for their financial advantage. The report gives several instances of Echelon’s use by corporations. One is the use of Echelon to “lift… all the faxes and phone calls” between the European aircraft manufacturer Airbus and Saudi Arabian Airlines; that information was used by two American companies, Boeing and McDonnell Douglas, to outflank Airbus and win a $6 billion contract. The report also alleges that the French company Thomson-CSF lost a $1.3 billion satellite deal to Raytheon the same way.....In 1977, the US government began providing Echelon-based intelligence to US corporations (see 1977). In April 2001, New Zealand journalist Nicky Hager testified about Echelon’s use by US allies for corporate and economic purposes (see April 2001), and former CIA director James Woolsey confirmed that US surveillance programs were used to benefit US corporations (see March 2000).
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=european_union_parliament
You seem to suffer from the same hubris your government does, namely the belief that the laws of the USA should apply to everyone and every nation on Earth. While I don't approve of bribery or corruption, they are standard fare in many countries and the legality or illegality is for those countries to determine via their legal standards, not the US.
Much as I detest the festering S*** hole that is Saudi Arabia, it really is for their government to declare and act on illegality.
I do agree that the quality of many Chinese manufactured products are lower than what is expected in the West, and
breach many safety standards. I am resigned to the fact that we, the West dug a hole for ourselves, a very deep one, with slippery slopes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
Some of the vulnerable victims are Apple engineers, no? So they are not that intelligent? :?
Perhaps only the engineers responsible for Apple Maps got hacked?
But at what point do we retaliate against bullying? One punch... ok, that stung, but I am willing to look the other way... Second punch, that hurt a little more, but again I'm willing to look the other way... 1000s of punches later, do we still look the other way and let China walk all over us like a doormat? There is a saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Im not declaring the US innocent here, but the general mentality in China is "do you [USA] fear us?". My father in law went to China regularly on business trips, and almost every time someone on the street walked up to him and asked him a similar or related question. China wants us to fear them because then they would have power over us. Im all about letting China well enough alone, but not if it means we have to live in fear and abuse from them.
Seems just like Iraq: found WMDs and factories there. Years, lives and billions wasted, and no WMDs found.
Oh btw, this:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-02-19/that-apple-facebook-hack-attack-came-from-eastern-europe
The Apple-Facebook attacks came from Eastern Europe.
Time to nuke/drone strike them now?
Stop being so trigger-happy.