. That's apparently the kind of "private info" that's in the hands of CC providers and credit reporting agencies, and what looks to be available to any company willing to pay for the reports. Yet your focus is on Google's anonymized data used to present you with an ad. Your concerns are misplaced and overly-dramatic IMHO.
What do you think?
Credit card companies can't sell your security questions or any other identifying information to "a vendor." All financial institutions are bound by the law with regards to how they handle and safeguard your private information, who they can share that information with and what those firms can do with it. Financial institutions are also required by law to disclose (to you - usually in a mailed letter) with whom and under what circumstances they can share your private information, and what you can opt out of sharing.
If your credit card company really did share your security question answers with "a vendor," then you can sue them in federal court for violating the privacy rules of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. A serious offense that carries punitive damages for any financial institution. In all likelihood, that isn't what happened.
Was that before or after his expletive-filled rant about Google?
I haven't heard any of his rants about Google but if you listen to the last few episodes of Gillmor Gang, he's definitely a die-hard Google fan, more specifically regarding Google Glasses in addition to saying how Apple is not exciting and innovating anymore.
Google team: Oh Apple's rumored to be planning something? We better get on that. Maybe sue them and get some access to inside documents. Larry Page: lol lets do it
Google team: Oh Apple's rumored to be planning something? We better get on that. Maybe sue them and get some access to inside documents.
Larry Page: lol lets do it
Larry Page: ...but let's use Motorola or some other company we've purchased so we can say "Google isn't suing Apple.
Guy in red shirt: But, Sir, even halfway intelligent people will know it's still us and it comes across as disengenuous.
Credit card companies can't sell your security questions or any other identifying information to "a vendor." All financial institutions are bound by the law with regards to how they handle and safeguard your private information, who they can share that information with and what those firms can do with it. Financial institutions are also required by law to disclose (to you - usually in a mailed letter) with whom and under what circumstances they can share your private information, and what you can opt out of sharing.
If your credit card company really did share your security question answers with "a vendor," then you can sue them in federal court for violating the privacy rules of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. A serious offense that carries punitive damages for any financial institution. In all likelihood, that isn't what happened.
Shhhhh..... don't tell the Chief Google Shill. HIs head will probably explode.
Here's a story from last evening that might put things in context. I need to order a workstation on really short notice and went on-line rather than a custom build. On checkout I used a credit card. The vendor sent a "'security question" to verify my identity: What year was I born. No biggie, CC fraud is rampant. Then they asked two more questions, both of which caught me completely off-guard.
1. Who lived at 256 **** ****** Dr, (Answer is my deceased mother )
2. What color is the Ford ****** I have.
That's apparently the kind of "private info" that's in the hands of CC providers and credit reporting agencies, and what looks to be available to any company willing to pay for the reports. Yet your focus is on Google's anonymized data used to present you with an ad. Your concerns are misplaced and overly-dramatic IMHO.
Even closer to home, if anyone wants to know all about who YOU are, regardless how much you care about your privacy, a Bing search will tell them. Try it for yourself. You don't even need your real name to start.
Just using Bing someone can find your age, where you went to college, who your professors were, everything you've done for a living, the names of some of your co-workers, the places you've made home, the other business you tried your hand at, whether it was successful or failed, your hobbies, your marital status and nearly anything else anyone would like to know. Where did your "privacy" suddenly go at Bing? Personalized ad delivery is hardly a big issue comparatively.
What do you think?
Public data that is aggregated by various credit bureau and LexisNexis databases that is widely used for out of wallet authentication or loan approvals is not the same thing as selling your day to day information about your life to advertisers. If the advertisers had access to your credit reports without your authorization then you could say they invade your privacy. But since they get this info from Google and the like, it shows they don't already have it.
Credit card companies can't sell your security questions or any other identifying information to "a vendor." All financial institutions are bound by the law with regards to how they handle and safeguard your private information, who they can share that information with and what those firms can do with it. Financial institutions are also required by law to disclose (to you - usually in a mailed letter) with whom and under what circumstances they can share your private information, and what you can opt out of sharing.
If your credit card company really did share your security question answers with "a vendor," then you can sue them in federal court for violating the privacy rules of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. A serious offense that carries punitive damages for any financial institution. In all likelihood, that isn't what happened.
Worse is that all the violations I've linked above involved real names connected to real private information. It included names, addresses, SS#'s and more all ending up with 3rd parties without your consent. The data was not "anonymized" in any way, nor was there any attempt to do so. Google was never accused of privacy violations on that scale, tho they're just as bound to FTC consent decrees as the others.
Why fear Google who's under the FTC's thumb but not fear the credit reporting agencies, banks, insurance companies or other financial and health reporting companies? Delivering targeted ads is hardly as worrysome as what Equifax, TransUnion or Cbr did. But yet you trust the credit and health agencies to handle your very personal financial and health information in accordance with your expectations "because it's the law"?
Google sells ad delivery, not you or your personal information. The credit agencies literally sold personal credit files, real names, real Social Security numbers, real addresses and all, just to make a few bucks. Which should you really fear, a pertinent ad on a web page or a folder handed over with your name and address on it?
Public data that is aggregated by various credit bureau and LexisNexis databases that is widely used for out of wallet authentication or loan approvals is not the same thing as selling your day to day information about your life to advertisers. If the advertisers had access to your credit reports without your authorization then you could say they invade your privacy. But since they get this info from Google and the like, it shows they don't already have it.
I don't think you understand the process. Google handles the ad placement. They don't turn your private information over to an advertiser to do the advertising themselves. There's zero evidence that even a single advertiser placing ads thru Google has ever been given your real name, address or any other personal information. Ever. Google does not sell your "day to day information" to advertisers or anyone else to best of my knowledge. Feel free to search for evidence that they do, and let us know if you find it.
Just as I said before, worries about Google and their aggregated data gathering are over-dramatized IMHO. Google isn't sharing anything they know about you personally without a legal order to do so, just like Apple or Microsoft or RIM or any of the other techs. Claims to the contrary are never supported here by facts, only FUD. That should tell you how true they are.
It was time they did this. It's amazing how the biggest companies haven't started this kind of service yet (maybe the Zune unlimited did this?). I just hope that Spotify continues to exist once Google and Apple finally do this. Spotify is extremely fast, slick and easy to use. It's great for discovering new artists and explore a particular genre. I've been using it for three years now (from its first month in Europe) and I just love it. It's the future, period.
Worse is that the violations I've linked above involved real names connected to real private information. It included names and addresses, SS#'s and more all ending up with 3rd parties without your consent. The data was not "anonymized" in any way, nor was there any attempt to do so. Google was never accused of privacy violations on that scale, tho they're just as bound to FTC consent decrees as the others.
Why fear Google but not fear the credit reporting agencies, banks, insurance companies or other financial and health reporting companies? Delivering targeted ads is hardly as worrysome as what Equifax, TransUnion or Cbr did. But yet you trust the credit and health agencies to handle your very personal financial and health information in accordance with your expectations "because it's the law"?
Google sells ad delivery, not you or your personal information. The credit agencies literally sold personal credit files, real names, real Social Security numbers, real addresses and all, just to make a few bucks. Which should you really fear, a pertinent ad on a web page or a folder handed over with your name and address on it?
Yep. The Chief Googl Shill jumps in.
Look, I don't appreciate privacy violations no matter who does them. If I were on a drugstore forum, the CVS privacy violations might be relevant. But I'm not. I'm here to discuss personal electronic devices - and Google is clearly misusing private information. They lie to users about privacy and bypass privacy settings. That's wrong -whether other companies are also guilty.
By your logic, it's OK if I rob everything in your house and all your bank accounts because Al Capone robbed an entire bank.
Look, I don't appreciate privacy violations no matter who does them. If I were on a drugstore forum, the CVS privacy violations might be relevant. But I'm not. I'm here to discuss personal electronic devices - and Google is clearly misusing private information. They lie to users about privacy and bypass privacy settings. That's wrong -whether other companies are also guilty.
By your logic, it's OK if I rob everything in your house and all your bank accounts because Al Capone robbed an entire bank.
Nope. I'm saying that I don't see where Google is robbing you of anything. Your privacy? You still have it (or what's left of it). There's nothing to show that Google has compromised your personal details in any way. What thing you intended to keep private, and is personally identifiable with your name has Google revealed to anyone? On the contrary, as far as I can tell from reading they only use anonymized and aggregated data for delivering pertinent ads, unlike the credit agencies noted in my post who sold real personal credit files and histories to marketing companies.
So Google's been a pretty good steward in protecting what they know personally about you. You're no more identifiable than Subject B is in a medical study. They may even go to court to protect you if they believe government demands for anything Google may know about you isn't within what the law requires. Do you have evidence to show otherwise?
Nope. I'm saying that I don't see where Google is robbing you of anything. Your privacy? You still have it (or what's left of it). There's nothing to show that Google has compromised your personal details in any way. What thing you intended to keep private, and is personally identifiable with your name has Google revealed to anyone? <span style="line-height:1.231;">On the contrary, as far as I can tell from reading they only use anonymized and aggregated data for delivering pertinent ads, unlike the credit agencies noted in my post who sold real personal credit files and histories to marketing companies.</span>
<span style="line-height:1.231;">So Google's been a pretty good steward in protecting what they know personally about you.</span>
<strong style="line-height:1.231;">You're no more identifiable than Subject B is in a medical study.</strong>
<span style="line-height:1.231;">They may even go to court to protect you if they believe government demands for anything Google may know about you isn't within what the law requires. Do you have evidence to show otherwise?</span>
And that's from just the first 20 hits on a search.
Completely serious.
Of course Google has to obey a court order to release user information. So does Apple. Other than the first link you offered, an accidental one-off error if it happened at all, nothing else there shows Google revealing anything they know about you outside of a legal order to do so. Lousy links if you think they're showing anything contrary to what I wrote. When I do a search for "Apple sued for privacy violations" is the dozen pages of hits proof that Apple violates users privacy too?
Again, what have they disclosed about you personally (that Apple would not have in the same circumstance) to compromise your privacy?
JR, I completely understand you're a diehard fan of Apple. I get it. I also realize you apparently believe that a true fan of Apple must also be anti-Google. I get that too. Your dramatic claims of clear and serious violations of your privacy by Google sound sincere. Yet when I ask in what way they've compromised and exposed your personal information you don't have an answer.
Whether you're an Apple fan, a Google-ite or neither shouldn't be the determining factor in where the truth lies. If you have evidence of Google using personally identifiable info rather than anonymized in their advertising efforts I'd be happy to see it. If not then what facts are you depending on for your claims of your privacy being purposefully exposed by Google, other than in legally-binding government demands?
Of course Google has to obey a court order to release user information. So does Apple. Other than the first link you offered, an accidental one-off error if it happened at all, nothing else there shows Google revealing anything they know about you outside of a legal order to do so. Lousy links if you think they're showing anything contrary to what I wrote. When I do a search for "Apple sued for privacy violations" is the dozen pages of hits proof that Apple violates users privacy too?
Again, what have they disclosed about you personally (that Apple would not have in the same circumstance) to compromise your privacy?
And that's exactly why I don't want Google to have my personal information. Under some circumstances, it is released. There's no reason for them to have it.
Not to mention, of course, that that is just the tip of the iceberg. Have you already forgotten about their bypassing of Safari security settings? And all the other times they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar?
And that's exactly why I don't want Google to have my personal information. Under some circumstances, it is released. There's no reason for them to have it.
Not to mention, of course, that that is just the tip of the iceberg. Have you already forgotten about their bypassing of Safari security settings? And all the other times they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar?
Under some circumstances Apple releases it too. Do you mind them knowing all about you and if so what are you doing to keep it from happening? In all honesty there's no real need for either one of them to be privy to your personal information except in the most basic way for something like warranty coverage or product delivery. Sure there's money to be made by knowing about you and what you want, but it even bothers me that so much information (and money!) can be in the hands of a handful of companies. There's always the potential for misdeeds, but that's not unique to Google.
I'll grant you that that Google gathers trillions of pieces of information from all over the net. They make $Billions from turning what they know into dollars from advertisers. But I haven't seen any evidence that they're revealing your personal details to do so.
Comments
Credit card companies can't sell your security questions or any other identifying information to "a vendor." All financial institutions are bound by the law with regards to how they handle and safeguard your private information, who they can share that information with and what those firms can do with it. Financial institutions are also required by law to disclose (to you - usually in a mailed letter) with whom and under what circumstances they can share your private information, and what you can opt out of sharing.
If your credit card company really did share your security question answers with "a vendor," then you can sue them in federal court for violating the privacy rules of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. A serious offense that carries punitive damages for any financial institution. In all likelihood, that isn't what happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
Was that before or after his expletive-filled rant about Google?
I haven't heard any of his rants about Google but if you listen to the last few episodes of Gillmor Gang, he's definitely a die-hard Google fan, more specifically regarding Google Glasses in addition to saying how Apple is not exciting and innovating anymore.
Larry Page: lol lets do it
Fingers in ears and tra la la.
Larry Page: ...but let's use Motorola or some other company we've purchased so we can say "Google isn't suing Apple.
Guy in red shirt: But, Sir, even halfway intelligent people will know it's still us and it comes across as disengenuous.
Larry Page: You're fired!
Shhhhh..... don't tell the Chief Google Shill. HIs head will probably explode.
lmao Soli
Public data that is aggregated by various credit bureau and LexisNexis databases that is widely used for out of wallet authentication or loan approvals is not the same thing as selling your day to day information about your life to advertisers. If the advertisers had access to your credit reports without your authorization then you could say they invade your privacy. But since they get this info from Google and the like, it shows they don't already have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Credit card companies can't sell your security questions or any other identifying information to "a vendor." All financial institutions are bound by the law with regards to how they handle and safeguard your private information, who they can share that information with and what those firms can do with it. Financial institutions are also required by law to disclose (to you - usually in a mailed letter) with whom and under what circumstances they can share your private information, and what you can opt out of sharing.
If your credit card company really did share your security question answers with "a vendor," then you can sue them in federal court for violating the privacy rules of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. A serious offense that carries punitive damages for any financial institution. In all likelihood, that isn't what happened.
It still happens whether "the law' says it can't.
Equifax violates privacy laws:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2012/10/equifaxdirect.shtm
Transunion violates privacy laws
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/predawn/F93/transunion.htm
Teletrax violates privacy laws.
http://www.infolawgroup.com/2011/06/articles/enforcement/fcra-violations-result-in-18-million-ftc-penalty/
Each of those first three were selling your personally identifiable credit files to advertisers/marketers, the law be damned.
There's also this sloppiness:
Cbr Blood Bank violates privacy laws
http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/blood-bank-settles-ftc-complaint-about-c-85712/
PLS Financial violates privacy laws
https://www.privacyassociation.org/publications/2012_11_12_ftc_settles_charges_over_alleged_improper_record_disposal
CVS Pharmacy violates privacy laws
http://ftc.gov/opa/2009/02/cvs.shtm
Worse is that all the violations I've linked above involved real names connected to real private information. It included names, addresses, SS#'s and more all ending up with 3rd parties without your consent. The data was not "anonymized" in any way, nor was there any attempt to do so. Google was never accused of privacy violations on that scale, tho they're just as bound to FTC consent decrees as the others.
Why fear Google who's under the FTC's thumb but not fear the credit reporting agencies, banks, insurance companies or other financial and health reporting companies? Delivering targeted ads is hardly as worrysome as what Equifax, TransUnion or Cbr did. But yet you trust the credit and health agencies to handle your very personal financial and health information in accordance with your expectations "because it's the law"?
Google sells ad delivery, not you or your personal information. The credit agencies literally sold personal credit files, real names, real Social Security numbers, real addresses and all, just to make a few bucks. Which should you really fear, a pertinent ad on a web page or a folder handed over with your name and address on it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers
Public data that is aggregated by various credit bureau and LexisNexis databases that is widely used for out of wallet authentication or loan approvals is not the same thing as selling your day to day information about your life to advertisers. If the advertisers had access to your credit reports without your authorization then you could say they invade your privacy. But since they get this info from Google and the like, it shows they don't already have it.
I don't think you understand the process. Google handles the ad placement. They don't turn your private information over to an advertiser to do the advertising themselves. There's zero evidence that even a single advertiser placing ads thru Google has ever been given your real name, address or any other personal information. Ever. Google does not sell your "day to day information" to advertisers or anyone else to best of my knowledge. Feel free to search for evidence that they do, and let us know if you find it.
Just as I said before, worries about Google and their aggregated data gathering are over-dramatized IMHO. Google isn't sharing anything they know about you personally without a legal order to do so, just like Apple or Microsoft or RIM or any of the other techs. Claims to the contrary are never supported here by facts, only FUD. That should tell you how true they are.
Yep. The Chief Googl Shill jumps in.
Look, I don't appreciate privacy violations no matter who does them. If I were on a drugstore forum, the CVS privacy violations might be relevant. But I'm not. I'm here to discuss personal electronic devices - and Google is clearly misusing private information. They lie to users about privacy and bypass privacy settings. That's wrong -whether other companies are also guilty.
By your logic, it's OK if I rob everything in your house and all your bank accounts because Al Capone robbed an entire bank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Yep. The Chief Googl Shill jumps in.
Look, I don't appreciate privacy violations no matter who does them. If I were on a drugstore forum, the CVS privacy violations might be relevant. But I'm not. I'm here to discuss personal electronic devices - and Google is clearly misusing private information. They lie to users about privacy and bypass privacy settings. That's wrong -whether other companies are also guilty.
By your logic, it's OK if I rob everything in your house and all your bank accounts because Al Capone robbed an entire bank.
Nope. I'm saying that I don't see where Google is robbing you of anything. Your privacy? You still have it (or what's left of it). There's nothing to show that Google has compromised your personal details in any way. What thing you intended to keep private, and is personally identifiable with your name has Google revealed to anyone? On the contrary, as far as I can tell from reading they only use anonymized and aggregated data for delivering pertinent ads, unlike the credit agencies noted in my post who sold real personal credit files and histories to marketing companies.
So Google's been a pretty good steward in protecting what they know personally about you. You're no more identifiable than Subject B is in a medical study. They may even go to court to protect you if they believe government demands for anything Google may know about you isn't within what the law requires. Do you have evidence to show otherwise?
Are you serious?
http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/01/google-releases-confidential-user-information.html
http://bangordailynews.com/2012/05/01/politics/google-releases-fcc-report-on-engineer-who-collected-personal-information/
http://www.slaw.ca/2010/04/21/google-releases-data-on-government-requests-for-private-user-data/
http://www.donkeyontheedge.com/le_enraged_mutton/us_court_forces_google_to_release_your_private_history_data.html
http://precursorblog.com/content/what-private-information-google-collects-a-one-page-fact-sheet
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/06/28/google-released-users-personal-information-to-courts/
And that's from just the first 20 hits on a search.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Are you serious?
http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/01/google-releases-confidential-user-information.html
http://bangordailynews.com/2012/05/01/politics/google-releases-fcc-report-on-engineer-who-collected-personal-information/
http://www.slaw.ca/2010/04/21/google-releases-data-on-government-requests-for-private-user-data/
http://www.donkeyontheedge.com/le_enraged_mutton/us_court_forces_google_to_release_your_private_history_data.html
http://precursorblog.com/content/what-private-information-google-collects-a-one-page-fact-sheet
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/06/28/google-released-users-personal-information-to-courts/
And that's from just the first 20 hits on a search.
Completely serious.
Of course Google has to obey a court order to release user information. So does Apple. Other than the first link you offered, an accidental one-off error if it happened at all, nothing else there shows Google revealing anything they know about you outside of a legal order to do so. Lousy links if you think they're showing anything contrary to what I wrote. When I do a search for "Apple sued for privacy violations" is the dozen pages of hits proof that Apple violates users privacy too?
Again, what have they disclosed about you personally (that Apple would not have in the same circumstance) to compromise your privacy?
JR, I completely understand you're a diehard fan of Apple. I get it. I also realize you apparently believe that a true fan of Apple must also be anti-Google. I get that too. Your dramatic claims of clear and serious violations of your privacy by Google sound sincere. Yet when I ask in what way they've compromised and exposed your personal information you don't have an answer.
Whether you're an Apple fan, a Google-ite or neither shouldn't be the determining factor in where the truth lies. If you have evidence of Google using personally identifiable info rather than anonymized in their advertising efforts I'd be happy to see it. If not then what facts are you depending on for your claims of your privacy being purposefully exposed by Google, other than in legally-binding government demands?
And that's exactly why I don't want Google to have my personal information. Under some circumstances, it is released. There's no reason for them to have it.
Not to mention, of course, that that is just the tip of the iceberg. Have you already forgotten about their bypassing of Safari security settings? And all the other times they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
And that's exactly why I don't want Google to have my personal information. Under some circumstances, it is released. There's no reason for them to have it.
Not to mention, of course, that that is just the tip of the iceberg. Have you already forgotten about their bypassing of Safari security settings? And all the other times they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar?
Under some circumstances Apple releases it too. Do you mind them knowing all about you and if so what are you doing to keep it from happening? In all honesty there's no real need for either one of them to be privy to your personal information except in the most basic way for something like warranty coverage or product delivery. Sure there's money to be made by knowing about you and what you want, but it even bothers me that so much information (and money!) can be in the hands of a handful of companies. There's always the potential for misdeeds, but that's not unique to Google.
I'll grant you that that Google gathers trillions of pieces of information from all over the net. They make $Billions from turning what they know into dollars from advertisers. But I haven't seen any evidence that they're revealing your personal details to do so.