Many don't realize that new form factors, like an iPhone nano (feature-like phone), iWatch, etc...are a redefinition of Apple and doesn't have to mean a cheap, money losing business strategy.
I don't think that many don't realize that new form factors could still be profitable, I haven't seen a lot of arguments against different form factors. What's more astounding is how many think that a cheap, money losing business strategy in the form of a "cheap iPhone" is what Apple needs right now.
The market is skyrocketing today, but AAPL is like the only stock in red! Everything is up, except AAPL! Great job Tim Cook! You're the man!
Yeah! Tim should have given those shareholders a good whipping and make them buy back all those shares they sold and drive the stock back up to $700! What was he thinking? This guy is good for nothing! /S
I think this is a GREAT strategy. Really and truly, just BRILLIANT!
1) Tell your shareholders you don't give a **** about how many items you sell, to let them know you really could care less if the share price tanks.
2) Let the other guys/Samsungs run you down in ads.
3( Let them take away your market share.
Have it be an EXACT repeat of Windows eating Mac's lunch back in the day. Let Android gain the majority of share so that developers will go to them.
I know what you'll say: Yes, yes, we at Apple are getting devoured by the competish. They're out advertising us, outselling us, and expanding exponentially to developing markets while we're not.
BUT we can say proudly that we have a quality product. And by the way shareholders, if you thought you were getting more of our cash, suck it.
Are you BIND?!
1) Cook said quantity does not equate to success. Apple sells less but makes more profit. By any measure that is smarter. If you disagree, please become a Sammy fan and believe in selling more and making less.
2) King of the hill always gets attacked. That's life man!
3) what market share? Oh, the bottom tier of low end phones that a) has much less margin b) cheaper products always have more issues which means more support needed c) you erode the Apple's status as being a high end company.
If you don't like Apple, don't buy it. If you don't like the stock, sell it, if you think everyone else is better and Apple is doomed, move on and forget about Apple.
I think that Apple should be more flexible. A much less expensive phone is needed around the world, and possibly, even here. They might also need to figure out a way to have a less expensive 8" tablet.
In addition, they've got to adopt more strategies towards the market. Avertising is small when compared to Samsung. $14 billion in total for Samsung last year compared to about $1 billion for Apple. It's aking a big part of the difference in sales.
For those who believe that marketshare is worthless, I'll say that it's not. As the market shifts, so do developers. This isn't speculation, it's fact.
I'd also like to see Macbook Airs at $899. Mini's at $599, and iMac's at $999. Except for Air's, they've been there before. There's no reason why they can't be there again.
Melgross is right.
(Not something I've said often.)
But he is.
Apple are in danger of being consumed by their 'cool' hubris.
Have they so soon forgotten candy coloured iMacs? Pushing the fashion failure of the Cube. (That it failed isn't the point.)
The $1599 dollar G3 Tower (the best one they ever released under Jobs in my view...) - Remember the Performance, expandable, affordable etc. ? Whatever happened to the affordable?
How come you now can't get a desktop for less than £1000 UK smackers? WITH a screen? Is this the same company that USED to give us a fully featured iMac with screen and keyboard/mouse for £595 UK inc VAT!!!?
They SAT on the iPhone 4 design and then 'evolved' it into the iPhone 5. Undeniably the iPhone 5 is a great phone. The best on the market.
But 'one size fits all?' Really? From the company that gave us the iPod 'premium' at all segments?
The classic devolved into the shuffle, nano and the Touch. All affordable. All premium. All value. They sucked the life out of the competition. So you could get an 'iPod' at £45? £100ish. £200 ish. Recognise anything? All Apple. All value. All quality.
Apple used to have a UK tower at £1055 there abouts. Now you have to £2000+ for one with a crappy quad core and a crappy gpu. And because Apple have a 'one size' fits all monitor range it costs you £899 inc vat to get a display? Really?
What happened to affordability, Apple?
I'm an Apple guy. But I aint drinking the cool aid of the price hikes since 2008.
It's a joke that you can't get an iMac any cheaper than the original launch price from its debut. £1099 without DVD (add £65 and Fusion which should be standard...it's how much for a 128 SSD?) and you're looking at £165 more than the old entry and £365 more for what they 'should' have included if you count Fusion. Little cost for Apple. Alot extra for the consumer. They used to have a model in 2008 £695 entry level iMac. It's now £405 more pricey. The Mac Pro £1000 more pricey to get on the ladder. The mini used to be 'almost' compelling at under £495. Seriously, they can't included a mouse and keyboard? (And the latest iMac keyboard feels 'cheaper' with it's pressed plastic than the last generation's keyboard...)
Imac? £200 price drop minimum across the board. They're desktops. Should be cheaper than Airs?
The Air? Needs a cheaper model.
Basically what Mel' said.
As for the iPad Mini. Intro' the retina...but keep the old non retina model and drop the price on it.
iPhone? Follow the iPod strategy.
Nuclear on Samsung.
Go iPhone shuffle with siri.
Go iPhone Nano with colours. Cheaper. Plastic if necessary.
Go iPhone classic as is...with colours. (Take your iPod touch streamline the design, add radio...and annodized colours. Price trim.) The iPod touch is a better design than the iPhone 5. It just is.
Go iPhone +. 4.8-5 inches. No home button...no border. All front surface glass. Tear drop design. Super sexy.
You blow Samsung away. Suck air out of Android and take on the Indian, China markets, Brazil HEAD ON!
You get the £50, £100+, £250+ £350+ £500+ markets nailed.
If you're going to cannibalise, do it to your own product...before Android does.
I think Mel' is right on the money.
Apple could easily make a more affordable tower while their at it. Let the tower and iMac fight it out. But there's plenty of Windows users who would like a tower. But start at £999 and offer a sane display to go with it.
Apple as Mel said? Have done it in the past.
Plus the market share gains will sex up the stock value.
Get the iWatch out.
Get the aTV out.
Growth.
That's my multiprong zietgheist.
Get the 'Air' to where the 'iBook' used to be on price.
Cheaper ticket price for upsell.
Come on Apple. You're making hard work of it.
Hubris and all that. Until people wake up and realise cool aint worth the posterior reaming extra.
Nobody is saying they have to do cheap crap. They never have.
Was the iMac 'cheap crap' when Apple offered it for £595? Was the Shuffe 'cheap crap' when it took the iPod sub £100? No. Apple were desperate to corner the MP3 market.
Sure, there is a premium profit in the Phone market profits are with them. But with £150 Billion in emerging world market smart phones share to be had...the ball is in Apple's court.
I hope Tim is listening. People who can't afford non contract phones...find £500+ way too much.
Figure it out. If they can Mini the iPad...they can go Nano and + with the iPhone, do colours, do annodized...give people choice. 1 choice is ridiculous no matter how good it is.
Apple doesn't need to flood the market with cheap crap. Samsung is doing fine in that department. Sure, there's money in selling junk, but I don't want Apple's brand-image tarnished by being sold on every street corner.
Apple doesn't need to flood the market with cheap crap. Samsung is doing fine in that department. Sure, there's money in selling junk, but I don't want Apple's brand-image tarnished by being sold on every street corner.
I'd also like to see Macbook Airs at $899. Mini's at $599, and iMac's at $999. Except for Air's, they've been there before. There's no reason why they can't be there again.
Yes. And you can put an affordable consumer tower in that category along with a Pro redesign for 'mortals' who want to bootcamp with Apple.
Just watched teh G3 tower intro'. Amazed at how affordable they were back then...complete with Quake 3 demo... And decent GPUs. Those were teh days. The tower/desktop appears a dwindling market...but how they've treated it...sums it all up. They're selling an out of date 'workstation' not worth the money. Along with Monitor choice. Totalitarian 'one size' fits all. Are Apple becoming the 'big brother' of the 1984 advert?
Time for a reality check on your prices Apple as we hit a triple dip recession. Meanwhile, you have 145 billion in the bank.
And you're nickle and diming us for Fusion drives, hiking iMac prices (2nd time they've done that in a recession...) and charging us for dropped features aka DVD drive.
They've now got enough in the bank to put the opposition to the sword. They have the stores. They have the reach.
Forget the share price. Nobody is asking for 7% profit margins and unrealistic volumes in shrinking markets. But going from £1045 to £2000 plus?
Going from £595 to £1160?
As the iPod market dissolves...we go from an affordable shuffle of £50+ to an iPhone of £500+
An iBook that used to be £695 to the Air's price?
Hubris.
Or Greed?
Or both?
Affordability. That was one of the things Jobs said in his keynote...back THEN when he launched the G3 Tower's blue and white design. Power and affordability.
When those numbers start to slip, you're not meeting the ideological perceptions of your client. Keep blabbing, Mr. Cook. The market judges your performance, and thus-far yours sucks.
When did the numbers slip? Apple sold more high-end phones than every other phone manufacturer last quarter and increased volume significantly over last year.
Tim is talking about the Android OS, as in dozens of manufacturers who have very low profit models and whose business model they don't see the value in replicating.
The Mac side had a small drop. It would be nice to see them push the Mac prices down a bit more as they are still less than 5th worldwide in PC marketshare but they have steady growth so it could just take a bit more time to get into the top 5. I don't know if 10% worldwide is feasible for them, it would mean shipping nearly 8-9 million Macs per quarter vs their usual 4-5 million. As melgross said, the slightly cheaper entry points would help. I personally think the 15" Macbook Pro is a big one to improve as it's the most popular category. The $1799 entry price is way above the entry price for a 15" PC laptop. Even if it meant a 15" Air.
It's ok...as long as they remain on their OS, their Eco system..., their hardware specs...and COOL fashion.
Lose the latter's impetus...and...
I don't like the S3...it's cheap plastic 'chav' tripe and derivative design or it's crap android interface...that they don't show in ads like Apple does with jewel like iOS.
But give Samsung something. They're onto something.
Apple sat on the, admittedly great, iPhone 4 design.
And in the fickle world of fashion they entered into with the long silver spoon...they sit with the devil.
Come on, Ive. This should be your finest hour. Apple's kit is a qualified 'state of the art' design. Yet...
You're sitting on 145billion? Time to take the opposition out with a chainsaw at the knees like you did to Adobe and Avid with Final Cut back in the day...
Steve is no longer with us so we don't know what his opinion would be now. Just as in life your perspective changes as you get older. All the rich people already have smartphones. Do you just want to sell them another one every two years or do you change your focus to match the changing times? It's all well and good to say you are not interested in market share so long as you already have a decent slice of the pie, but if the share starts to decline, eventually you will reach a tipping point where market share REALLY matters. They don't need to be obsessed with market share but to be completely disinterested I think is a mistake. China is the new battle ground, and although they have a rising middle class there is definitely a need for a cheaper phone for their masses. The older version iPhones are not a good fit for the Chinese as they don't even work on the country's largest carrier. A smaller less expensive, less full featured iPhone would be a huge hit in the developing world.
Did you know that Apple sells computers? That they have a whopping 12% of the market share. That they don't want to put out a plastic cheap computers just to gain share. BUT what Apple does want to do is put out the very best in design, functionality and usability of anyone. And they deliver on that in heaps.
So NO, Apple never has, never will be concerned about market share over quality products. Yes, everyone wants to sell me as that makes more money and allows you to do more things, but not at the expense of quality.
PLEASE someone tell me what is cheaper than FREE! Everyone walks about acting like you don't need to have a call plan*. That being said, and we all know you need to buy data from someone. If you want the best phone experience on the market, you contract for two years and get a FREE phone. Pay more and you get the latest in smart phones.
And a pricey hubris that may yet come back to haunt them.
We shall see.
Affordable is what they have done with eg the iPod line as an Example. They have, historically, BEEN there. See what Mel' said.
And they 'could' do it again.
We'll SEE if they want to.
That doesn't mean 'cheap.' But we know they can do 'CHEAPER.'
How many Apple fans would have defended Apple at £1000 for an iPad?
Yet Apple blew away all conception of this when it suited them. They grabbed the iPad market by the balls with an astonishing £399 iPad. £600 plus cheaper!
They CAN or COULD give consumers a better deal. And go 'upsell' from there.
It's something they do well in the iPad and iPod markets.
iPhone? Not so much. Though 4s sales have done better than expected.
The largest market segment that remains untapped is the developing world, but let's ignore that since we only want to build luxury products. We'll come back and take another look at China in 20 years or so when they might be able to afford our bling. Of course in the mean time that market will be completely dominated by Samsung and Android.
I know it is sort of cliché but it does seem like déjà vu all over again. Mac was elegant and sophisticated in the 80s especially when compared to DOS but by the time Windows 95 came along with most of the same qualities, the Internet, Photoshop and Office, Dell's were generally perceived as just as good but less costly than Macs. It was game over.
So yes it did work out well for Dell...for awhile, but they were unable to adapt to a changing market place. If Apple fails to recognize the changing landscape, the same fate awaits them.
I would hate to see that happen again, which it very well could if Apple loses in China.
You do realize that Apple *IS* a luxury brand, right?
Do you go around to all the luxury brand websites and tell them they need to sell cheaper products to the developing nations?
What is your hatred with Apple being who they are? They ARE a luxury brand. Always have been, always will be. Get over it.
Apple doesn't need to flood the market with cheap crap. Samsung is doing fine in that department. Sure, there's money in selling junk, but I don't want Apple's brand-image tarnished by being sold on every street corner.
What, like they did with the iPod shuffe?
or the iMac when it was priced entry at £595?
or the iBook at £695?
or the G3 tower when it was circa £1045?
Or the iPad at £399 (still an astonishing price...but the market has moved a little since then...)
or the Mini at £250-ish.
Or the cheaper contract iPhones?
They don't make junk. Obvious. Have they ever since Jobs rebirthed the combo. Rarely. That doesn't mean they can't make a £500+ phone more affordable or give us choice. The iPod touches are far cheaper. Are they junk? How much does a beeping phone radio cost anyhow?!!!
Did you know that Apple sells computers? That they have a whopping 12% of the market share. That they don't want to put out a plastic cheap computers just to gain share. BUT what Apple does want to do is put out the very best in design, functionality and usability of anyone. And they deliver on that in heaps.
So NO, Apple never has, never will be concerned about market share over quality products. Yes, everyone wants to sell me as that makes more money and allows you to do more things, but not at the expense of quality.
PLEASE someone tell me what is cheaper than FREE! Everyone walks about acting like you don't need to have a call plan*. That being said, and we all know you need to buy data from someone. If you want the best phone experience on the market, you contract for two years and get a FREE phone. Pay more and you get the latest in smart phones.
No he is not right as he intends Apple to be something they are not. Sure, they have had product failures and many HUGE successes.
You can't take the iPod family and call on, just because it is smaller, cheaper and made for mass consumption. The iPod family, over time, grew into segments of usability. Some people wanted smaller iPods to use while running, or larger ones for more capacity. It was never to be cheaper and reach more people in that sense.
The iPhone has already grown a size and may over time have different sizes (as well as colors), but NEVER to meet the demands of mass production, and always to meet the demands of user experience.
I doubt the iPhone / iPad will have many colors as people tend to get cases for such products. You don't get a case, often, for your iPod. Plus the iPod is more of a 'fun', or youthful, product and therefore colorful by nature, although it did not start out that way.
As the largest company in the world with over $140 Billion in Cash reserves, I think Apple does quite well with their own thinking and their success shows it.
[edited: removed most of Lemon's quoted comment to save thread space]
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewys808
Many don't realize that new form factors, like an iPhone nano (feature-like phone), iWatch, etc...are a redefinition of Apple and doesn't have to mean a cheap, money losing business strategy.
I don't think that many don't realize that new form factors could still be profitable, I haven't seen a lot of arguments against different form factors. What's more astounding is how many think that a cheap, money losing business strategy in the form of a "cheap iPhone" is what Apple needs right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX
The market is skyrocketing today, but AAPL is like the only stock in red! Everything is up, except AAPL! Great job Tim Cook! You're the man!
Yeah! Tim should have given those shareholders a good whipping and make them buy back all those shares they sold and drive the stock back up to $700! What was he thinking? This guy is good for nothing! /S
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke
I think this is a GREAT strategy. Really and truly, just BRILLIANT!
1) Tell your shareholders you don't give a **** about how many items you sell, to let them know you really could care less if the share price tanks.
2) Let the other guys/Samsungs run you down in ads.
3( Let them take away your market share.
Have it be an EXACT repeat of Windows eating Mac's lunch back in the day. Let Android gain the majority of share so that developers will go to them.
I know what you'll say: Yes, yes, we at Apple are getting devoured by the competish. They're out advertising us, outselling us, and expanding exponentially to developing markets while we're not.
BUT we can say proudly that we have a quality product. And by the way shareholders, if you thought you were getting more of our cash, suck it.
Are you BIND?!
1) Cook said quantity does not equate to success. Apple sells less but makes more profit. By any measure that is smarter. If you disagree, please become a Sammy fan and believe in selling more and making less.
2) King of the hill always gets attacked. That's life man!
3) what market share? Oh, the bottom tier of low end phones that a) has much less margin b) cheaper products always have more issues which means more support needed c) you erode the Apple's status as being a high end company.
If you don't like Apple, don't buy it. If you don't like the stock, sell it, if you think everyone else is better and Apple is doomed, move on and forget about Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I think that Apple should be more flexible. A much less expensive phone is needed around the world, and possibly, even here. They might also need to figure out a way to have a less expensive 8" tablet.
In addition, they've got to adopt more strategies towards the market. Avertising is small when compared to Samsung. $14 billion in total for Samsung last year compared to about $1 billion for Apple. It's aking a big part of the difference in sales.
For those who believe that marketshare is worthless, I'll say that it's not. As the market shifts, so do developers. This isn't speculation, it's fact.
I'd also like to see Macbook Airs at $899. Mini's at $599, and iMac's at $999. Except for Air's, they've been there before. There's no reason why they can't be there again.
Melgross is right.
(Not something I've said often.)
But he is.
Apple are in danger of being consumed by their 'cool' hubris.
Have they so soon forgotten candy coloured iMacs? Pushing the fashion failure of the Cube. (That it failed isn't the point.)
The $1599 dollar G3 Tower (the best one they ever released under Jobs in my view...) - Remember the Performance, expandable, affordable etc. ? Whatever happened to the affordable?
How come you now can't get a desktop for less than £1000 UK smackers? WITH a screen? Is this the same company that USED to give us a fully featured iMac with screen and keyboard/mouse for £595 UK inc VAT!!!?
They SAT on the iPhone 4 design and then 'evolved' it into the iPhone 5. Undeniably the iPhone 5 is a great phone. The best on the market.
But 'one size fits all?' Really? From the company that gave us the iPod 'premium' at all segments?
The classic devolved into the shuffle, nano and the Touch. All affordable. All premium. All value. They sucked the life out of the competition. So you could get an 'iPod' at £45? £100ish. £200 ish. Recognise anything? All Apple. All value. All quality.
Apple used to have a UK tower at £1055 there abouts. Now you have to £2000+ for one with a crappy quad core and a crappy gpu. And because Apple have a 'one size' fits all monitor range it costs you £899 inc vat to get a display? Really?
What happened to affordability, Apple?
I'm an Apple guy. But I aint drinking the cool aid of the price hikes since 2008.
It's a joke that you can't get an iMac any cheaper than the original launch price from its debut. £1099 without DVD (add £65 and Fusion which should be standard...it's how much for a 128 SSD?) and you're looking at £165 more than the old entry and £365 more for what they 'should' have included if you count Fusion. Little cost for Apple. Alot extra for the consumer. They used to have a model in 2008 £695 entry level iMac. It's now £405 more pricey. The Mac Pro £1000 more pricey to get on the ladder. The mini used to be 'almost' compelling at under £495. Seriously, they can't included a mouse and keyboard? (And the latest iMac keyboard feels 'cheaper' with it's pressed plastic than the last generation's keyboard...)
Imac? £200 price drop minimum across the board. They're desktops. Should be cheaper than Airs?
The Air? Needs a cheaper model.
Basically what Mel' said.
As for the iPad Mini. Intro' the retina...but keep the old non retina model and drop the price on it.
iPhone? Follow the iPod strategy.
Nuclear on Samsung.
Go iPhone shuffle with siri.
Go iPhone Nano with colours. Cheaper. Plastic if necessary.
Go iPhone classic as is...with colours. (Take your iPod touch streamline the design, add radio...and annodized colours. Price trim.) The iPod touch is a better design than the iPhone 5. It just is.
Go iPhone +. 4.8-5 inches. No home button...no border. All front surface glass. Tear drop design. Super sexy.
You blow Samsung away. Suck air out of Android and take on the Indian, China markets, Brazil HEAD ON!
You get the £50, £100+, £250+ £350+ £500+ markets nailed.
If you're going to cannibalise, do it to your own product...before Android does.
I think Mel' is right on the money.
Apple could easily make a more affordable tower while their at it. Let the tower and iMac fight it out. But there's plenty of Windows users who would like a tower. But start at £999 and offer a sane display to go with it.
Apple as Mel said? Have done it in the past.
Plus the market share gains will sex up the stock value.
Get the iWatch out.
Get the aTV out.
Growth.
That's my multiprong zietgheist.
Get the 'Air' to where the 'iBook' used to be on price.
Cheaper ticket price for upsell.
Come on Apple. You're making hard work of it.
Hubris and all that. Until people wake up and realise cool aint worth the posterior reaming extra.
Nobody is saying they have to do cheap crap. They never have.
Was the iMac 'cheap crap' when Apple offered it for £595? Was the Shuffe 'cheap crap' when it took the iPod sub £100? No. Apple were desperate to corner the MP3 market.
Sure, there is a premium profit in the Phone market profits are with them. But with £150 Billion in emerging world market smart phones share to be had...the ball is in Apple's court.
I hope Tim is listening. People who can't afford non contract phones...find £500+ way too much.
Figure it out. If they can Mini the iPad...they can go Nano and + with the iPhone, do colours, do annodized...give people choice. 1 choice is ridiculous no matter how good it is.
It's indefensible.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Apple doesn't need to flood the market with cheap crap. Samsung is doing fine in that department. Sure, there's money in selling junk, but I don't want Apple's brand-image tarnished by being sold on every street corner.
It already is.
Quote:
I'd also like to see Macbook Airs at $899. Mini's at $599, and iMac's at $999. Except for Air's, they've been there before. There's no reason why they can't be there again.
Yes. And you can put an affordable consumer tower in that category along with a Pro redesign for 'mortals' who want to bootcamp with Apple.
Just watched teh G3 tower intro'. Amazed at how affordable they were back then...complete with Quake 3 demo... And decent GPUs. Those were teh days. The tower/desktop appears a dwindling market...but how they've treated it...sums it all up. They're selling an out of date 'workstation' not worth the money. Along with Monitor choice. Totalitarian 'one size' fits all. Are Apple becoming the 'big brother' of the 1984 advert?
Time for a reality check on your prices Apple as we hit a triple dip recession. Meanwhile, you have 145 billion in the bank.
And you're nickle and diming us for Fusion drives, hiking iMac prices (2nd time they've done that in a recession...) and charging us for dropped features aka DVD drive.
They've now got enough in the bank to put the opposition to the sword. They have the stores. They have the reach.
Forget the share price. Nobody is asking for 7% profit margins and unrealistic volumes in shrinking markets. But going from £1045 to £2000 plus?
Going from £595 to £1160?
As the iPod market dissolves...we go from an affordable shuffle of £50+ to an iPhone of £500+
An iBook that used to be £695 to the Air's price?
Hubris.
Or Greed?
Or both?
Affordability. That was one of the things Jobs said in his keynote...back THEN when he launched the G3 Tower's blue and white design. Power and affordability.
Discuss.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Basically what you said is that if it's pricer and better quality it's not as cool as something cheaper and more cheaply made and that is not correct.
When did the numbers slip? Apple sold more high-end phones than every other phone manufacturer last quarter and increased volume significantly over last year.
Tim is talking about the Android OS, as in dozens of manufacturers who have very low profit models and whose business model they don't see the value in replicating.
The Mac side had a small drop. It would be nice to see them push the Mac prices down a bit more as they are still less than 5th worldwide in PC marketshare but they have steady growth so it could just take a bit more time to get into the top 5. I don't know if 10% worldwide is feasible for them, it would mean shipping nearly 8-9 million Macs per quarter vs their usual 4-5 million. As melgross said, the slightly cheaper entry points would help. I personally think the 15" Macbook Pro is a big one to improve as it's the most popular category. The $1799 entry price is way above the entry price for a 15" PC laptop. Even if it meant a 15" Air.
That's worrying that it's at most two buttons controlling the whole thing. I hope they keep interns away from these buttons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
It already is.
Truth. They wanted to enter the high street.
It's no longer a niche club.
It's ok...as long as they remain on their OS, their Eco system..., their hardware specs...and COOL fashion.
Lose the latter's impetus...and...
I don't like the S3...it's cheap plastic 'chav' tripe and derivative design or it's crap android interface...that they don't show in ads like Apple does with jewel like iOS.
But give Samsung something. They're onto something.
Apple sat on the, admittedly great, iPhone 4 design.
And in the fickle world of fashion they entered into with the long silver spoon...they sit with the devil.
Come on, Ive. This should be your finest hour. Apple's kit is a qualified 'state of the art' design. Yet...
You're sitting on 145billion? Time to take the opposition out with a chainsaw at the knees like you did to Adobe and Avid with Final Cut back in the day...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Basically what you said is that if it's pricer and better quality it's not as cool as something cheaper and more cheaply made and that is not correct.
No. That's not what I said. :P
That's what you think. And that's what you 'think' I said.
Try again, Soli.
Mel' was right.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Steve is no longer with us so we don't know what his opinion would be now. Just as in life your perspective changes as you get older. All the rich people already have smartphones. Do you just want to sell them another one every two years or do you change your focus to match the changing times? It's all well and good to say you are not interested in market share so long as you already have a decent slice of the pie, but if the share starts to decline, eventually you will reach a tipping point where market share REALLY matters. They don't need to be obsessed with market share but to be completely disinterested I think is a mistake. China is the new battle ground, and although they have a rising middle class there is definitely a need for a cheaper phone for their masses. The older version iPhones are not a good fit for the Chinese as they don't even work on the country's largest carrier. A smaller less expensive, less full featured iPhone would be a huge hit in the developing world.
Did you know that Apple sells computers? That they have a whopping 12% of the market share. That they don't want to put out a plastic cheap computers just to gain share. BUT what Apple does want to do is put out the very best in design, functionality and usability of anyone. And they deliver on that in heaps.
So NO, Apple never has, never will be concerned about market share over quality products. Yes, everyone wants to sell me as that makes more money and allows you to do more things, but not at the expense of quality.
PLEASE someone tell me what is cheaper than FREE! Everyone walks about acting like you don't need to have a call plan*. That being said, and we all know you need to buy data from someone. If you want the best phone experience on the market, you contract for two years and get a FREE phone. Pay more and you get the latest in smart phones.
How long have you been with your carrier? What is the average? The average length of relationships between carriers and their under-contract customers fell to an all-time low of 48 months last year, - See more at: http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/26/technology/cell-phone-customers/index.htm#sthash.2ODDVLaX.dpuf
Those that purchase contract free phones do what for data? Either buy pay as you go, or sign up with a carrier.
You people drive me crazy with your Microsoft thinking.
*people using pay as you go are NOT looking for smart phones.
Basic isn't what I said.
Basic is the choice Apple is offering.
And a pricey hubris that may yet come back to haunt them.
We shall see.
Affordable is what they have done with eg the iPod line as an Example. They have, historically, BEEN there. See what Mel' said.
And they 'could' do it again.
We'll SEE if they want to.
That doesn't mean 'cheap.' But we know they can do 'CHEAPER.'
How many Apple fans would have defended Apple at £1000 for an iPad?
Yet Apple blew away all conception of this when it suited them. They grabbed the iPad market by the balls with an astonishing £399 iPad. £600 plus cheaper!
They CAN or COULD give consumers a better deal. And go 'upsell' from there.
It's something they do well in the iPad and iPod markets.
iPhone? Not so much. Though 4s sales have done better than expected.
Desktop prices need work.
They need a more affordable laptop.
How they get there...up to Apple.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
The largest market segment that remains untapped is the developing world, but let's ignore that since we only want to build luxury products. We'll come back and take another look at China in 20 years or so when they might be able to afford our bling. Of course in the mean time that market will be completely dominated by Samsung and Android.
I know it is sort of cliché but it does seem like déjà vu all over again. Mac was elegant and sophisticated in the 80s especially when compared to DOS but by the time Windows 95 came along with most of the same qualities, the Internet, Photoshop and Office, Dell's were generally perceived as just as good but less costly than Macs. It was game over.
So yes it did work out well for Dell...for awhile, but they were unable to adapt to a changing market place. If Apple fails to recognize the changing landscape, the same fate awaits them.
I would hate to see that happen again, which it very well could if Apple loses in China.
You do realize that Apple *IS* a luxury brand, right?
Do you go around to all the luxury brand websites and tell them they need to sell cheaper products to the developing nations?
What is your hatred with Apple being who they are? They ARE a luxury brand. Always have been, always will be. Get over it.
What's in those Lemon Bon Bons? I'm starting to think it isn't anything remotely close to lemon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
Apple doesn't need to flood the market with cheap crap. Samsung is doing fine in that department. Sure, there's money in selling junk, but I don't want Apple's brand-image tarnished by being sold on every street corner.
What, like they did with the iPod shuffe?
or the iMac when it was priced entry at £595?
or the iBook at £695?
or the G3 tower when it was circa £1045?
Or the iPad at £399 (still an astonishing price...but the market has moved a little since then...)
or the Mini at £250-ish.
Or the cheaper contract iPhones?
They don't make junk. Obvious. Have they ever since Jobs rebirthed the combo. Rarely. That doesn't mean they can't make a £500+ phone more affordable or give us choice. The iPod touches are far cheaper. Are they junk? How much does a beeping phone radio cost anyhow?!!!
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
What's in those Lemon Bon Bons? I'm starting to think it isn't anything remotely close to lemon.
Refined fructose, mate.
Lemon Bon Bon. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
You do realize that Apple *IS* a luxury brand, right?
Do you go around to all the luxury brand websites and tell them they need to sell cheaper products to the developing nations?
What is your hatred with Apple being who they are? They ARE a luxury brand. Always have been, always will be. Get over it.
Eh...yes.
We DO realise they're a luxury brand.
So how come they make a sub £100 ipod?
Or a £100+ iPod Nano?
or a £250 touch? or iPad Mini?
These are affordable? Are they cheap crap or luxury. The latter we know.
*shrugs.
But they do make expensive crap. aka the Mac Pro at £2000+. Now that one is luxury crap.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Did you know that Apple sells computers? That they have a whopping 12% of the market share. That they don't want to put out a plastic cheap computers just to gain share. BUT what Apple does want to do is put out the very best in design, functionality and usability of anyone. And they deliver on that in heaps.
So NO, Apple never has, never will be concerned about market share over quality products. Yes, everyone wants to sell me as that makes more money and allows you to do more things, but not at the expense of quality.
PLEASE someone tell me what is cheaper than FREE! Everyone walks about acting like you don't need to have a call plan*. That being said, and we all know you need to buy data from someone. If you want the best phone experience on the market, you contract for two years and get a FREE phone. Pay more and you get the latest in smart phones.
How long have you been with your carrier? What is the average? The average length of relationships between carriers and their under-contract customers fell to an all-time low of 48 months last year, - See more at: http://money.cnn.com/2012/03/26/technology/cell-phone-customers/index.htm#sthash.2ODDVLaX.dpuf
Those that purchase contract free phones do what for data? Either buy pay as you go, or sign up with a carrier.
You people drive me crazy with your Microsoft thinking.
*people using pay as you go are NOT looking for smart phones.
People using pay as you go are not looking for smart phones?
That right?
Lemon Bon Bon.
PS. Don't want to sell cheap plastic crap? Didn't stop them before with the iMac or iBook? Or the G3 tower? :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
Melgross is right.
Lemon Bon Bon.
No he is not right as he intends Apple to be something they are not. Sure, they have had product failures and many HUGE successes.
You can't take the iPod family and call on, just because it is smaller, cheaper and made for mass consumption. The iPod family, over time, grew into segments of usability. Some people wanted smaller iPods to use while running, or larger ones for more capacity. It was never to be cheaper and reach more people in that sense.
The iPhone has already grown a size and may over time have different sizes (as well as colors), but NEVER to meet the demands of mass production, and always to meet the demands of user experience.
I doubt the iPhone / iPad will have many colors as people tend to get cases for such products. You don't get a case, often, for your iPod. Plus the iPod is more of a 'fun', or youthful, product and therefore colorful by nature, although it did not start out that way.
As the largest company in the world with over $140 Billion in Cash reserves, I think Apple does quite well with their own thinking and their success shows it.
[edited: removed most of Lemon's quoted comment to save thread space]