Did I miss something, doesn't the parent have to set up the iPad for the kid to do purchases including a password? If the parents neglected to set limitations or even better set it up then gave the kid unsupervised access it is hard to see how Apple is to blame.
That was back in the day when people took responsibility for their own actions. Those days are long gone. Now it's always everyone else's fault and how much $$$ can I get out of them.
Frankly, I've had enough of the childless losers lecturing parents on how easy it is to monitor every second of a kids life. You don't have a clue about this.
Its not 'nanny' to put the simple work into store design to allow a simple, obvious cut-off for in-app purchases.
The problem is that in-app is a cash-cow and neither developers nor Apple really want to make it easy to disable.
Stop pontificating on things you don't understand.
I agree that parents that use an iPad as a babysitter are just using ignorance to cover their own stupidity. There are controls and procedures that can be used to prevent kids from doing this.
Apple could (and should) implement something that makes it pretty much a "bonehead" on/off switch like a kids-mode. Case closed. If parent's are STUPID enough to give their kids the password, all bets are off. If Apple were to get a 2nd phone call a month or two later from this same family, I hope Apple tells them to consider just paying for a babysitter instead and accept responsibility.
Now, that being said.... I think the developer should get some flak for making it even possible to let something as stupid as a Simpson's game, clearly intended for kids, to rack up those kind of charges. That's downright robbery. It's a slippery slope if Apple were to force developers on revenue limits in an app, but I think the developer is obviously hoping that Apple refunding the 1% of screwups and moving on is surely better since the other 99% are okay or no one will dispute it.
The nice thing Android does is you can set up a 4 digit pin for any purchases, so you can give your kids any password you want, as long as he doesn't know the pin he won't buy anything.
That was back in the day when people took responsibility for their own actions. Those days are long gone. Now it's always everyone else's fault and how much $$$ can I get out of them.
Back in the day? There is a long history of humanity attributing events and placing blame erroneously.
You can already disable IAP, among other parental controls, but you probably don't even need to.... just don't give your kid a password that can take money from your credit card account!
You need a password for IAP currently. Even if you've entered your password already for a download, I believe you need it again--immediately, no delay--for IAP. Correct me if I have the current state of affairs wrong.
But there are hundreds if not thousands of iOS users, so stupid mistakes will be made. Guaranteed. Unless you ban ALL ADULTS from buying things on their phone, some adults will let kids do so too.
That is not correct. At least on some versions of iOS, if you enter the password to download a game, the password remains active for 15 minutes - without requiring that it be re-entered.
I believe Apple has changed that in the latest version, but it should have been 'no delay' from the start.
I haven't ever used in app purchases. Is the default setting "require authorisation on every in app purchase". Seems to me it should be, and then if you want to you can turn that setting off for each app (and of course you need to authorise changing the setting). But out of the box, every in app purchase should need authorisation.
Another simple idea. Give apps a rating, G for small kids, and don't allow in app purchases for G rated apps.
Another simple idea is that a user should be allowed to set global limits on in app purchases, a daily, weekly and monthly rate. When you hit the limit, you have to authorise a new limit for that day, week or month.
Same could be done for non wifi downloads. Let me tell iOS how much is a safe non wifi download (by day week and month) and it alerts me when I get there.
Don't know if any of that is feasible. But it would help the 90% of customers who don't know much about this stuff.
Back in the day? There is a long history of humanity attributing events and placing blame erroneously.
Yeah, but as little as twenty years ago, a parent trying to blame Apple for something like this would be "outrageous" and they would get no sympathy at all from the press.
Today it's the front page of all the British newspapers and the opinion of the media outlets and most of the opinion of the readers falls on the side of the parents. That's a big change. People really *are* much more selfish and self-centred and they really *do* have a greatly increased sense of entitlement than at any time for at least the last 100 years or so.
The nice thing Android does is you can set up a 4 digit pin for any purchases, so you can give your kids any password you want, as long as he doesn't know the pin he won't buy anything.
And you get the email receipt immediately not the next day which could've prevented the bill from getting so high. All of you that blame the parents are idiots, do you stand over your child's (if you have any) shoulder, and monitor there usage at ALL times? No of course not. It doesn't take long to rack up a pretty big bill with these IAPs. Last week while getting my hair cut I let my son use a iPod to play games instead of sitting there bored. I had my eye on him the whole time but he could've very easily made some IAPs right under my nose. Good thing I always look him in the eye and tell him "DO NOT buy anything".
Frankly, I've had enough of the childless losers lecturing parents on how easy it is to monitor every second of a kids life. You don't have a clue about this.
Its not 'nanny' to put the simple work into store design to allow a simple, obvious cut-off for in-app purchases.
The problem is that in-app is a cash-cow and neither developers nor Apple really want to make it easy to disable.
Stop pontificating on things you don't understand.
Settings > General > Restrictions > Enable, and choose what you want or don't want your kid to do. Looks like Apple already put in the simple work. Now it looks like parents need to put in the simple work to understand what they are giving their kids. iPhones and mobile phones in general are not marketed as devices to share. iPads are debatable, but are still set up as single-user devices.
That said, I understand your plight. Parenting is hard, and for those who choose to do it, I applaud them. Though trying to win 'childless losers' over to your argument might be hard when insulting them at the same time. You vilify just as much as the side your fighting against and expect better treatment?
Yeah, but as little as twenty years ago, a parent trying to blame Apple for something like this would be "outrageous" and they would get no sympathy at all from the press.
Today it's the front page of all the British newspapers and the opinion of the media outlets and most of the opinion of the readers falls on the side of the parents. That's a big change. People really *are* much more selfish and self-centred and they really *do* have a greatly increased sense of entitlement than at any time for at least the last 100 years or so.
Because they trust Apple and the 'Walled Garden' but unbeknownst to them there be snakes in the garden.
That's not completely accurate. You can have separate Apple ID for services (icloud, facetime, .. etc) and another for App Store purchases on the same device. I have an Apple ID for purchases only and I use it for all my ios devices (used by me, my wife, and my son) and each device use its users Apple ID for services like FaceTime, iMessages, iCloud, etc.
Apologies, I misread the iTunes T&C. It's just auto downloads & iTunes match that can't be changed often on iOS & OS X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicwalmsley
Another simple idea. Give apps a rating, G for small kids, and don't allow in app purchases for G rated apps.
Another simple idea is that a user should be allowed to set global limits on in app purchases, a daily, weekly and monthly rate. When you hit the limit, you have to authorise a new limit for that day, week or month.
Same could be done for non wifi downloads. Let me tell iOS how much is a safe non wifi download (by day week and month) and it alerts me when I get there.
Don't know if any of that is feasible. But it would help the 90% of customers who don't know much about this stuff.
See how many of the top free apps are games for kids with in IAP. In App Purchasing is how Apple encouraged developers to make money, I suspect demo's of paid apps could help the situation, but many parents don't want to buy apps, in the belief they can entertain the kids for free.
More settings for limits are a reasonable idea, but these users are already failing to setup restrictions or disable the the store login timeout.
This is what happens when you think your iPad is the babysitter. What happened to parenting?! My son is 7 years old and in 1st grade. His iPad is locked with a password, which he knows, but he never use it without permission. Restrictions are on (again he knows the password) but when he wants to buy from the App Store or IAP he knows that I need to do these things not him. WTF wrong with these people!
That's like people with prodigy children asking you "what do you mean your son can't compose a Symphony?"
I agree with your general sentiment but most people simply aren't that tech savvy and I can see how someone who has to put in their password every time buy an app might not realize that it says in there for a certain time frame. They might not even know there is something called in-app purchases that would need to be considered.
That said, I do think so of the blame falls on them for not knowing what they are giving their children access to when they hand them their devices but I do think Apple needs to alter the way in-app purchases work. Make it so each time a password is required, regardless of when it was last put in, but offer a toggle in Settings with a warning of what this will allow. This not only saves these kinds of stories from happening with ignorant parents but also allows Apple to protect themselves and their brand by making it happen less.
One solution to IAP is to ask permission when you first run the app (like location services) and have the ability to turn IAP for each app individually. However, I am already tired of all these popups. Why do 99% of users suffer just because some people are lazy!
Yeah, but as little as twenty years ago, a parent trying to blame Apple for something like this would be "outrageous" and they would get no sympathy at all from the press.
Today it's the front page of all the British newspapers and the opinion of the media outlets and most of the opinion of the readers falls on the side of the parents. That's a big change. People really *are* much more selfish and self-centred and they really *do* have a greatly increased sense of entitlement than at any time for at least the last 100 years or so.
The targets have changed but humanity has not. 100 years ago we blamed things on false science or even just more superstition but today we have a lot more information in our reach but with that excessive amount of info comes the ability to miss something because there is so much to absorb. Apple wasn't around then but if you go back to before the iPhone there was no inexpensive Apple product that could easily be tied to excessive costs or usage. Even the iPods didn't have any wireless capabilities and there was no app store.
Has there ever been a generation that hasn't said that they newer one is more spoiled and more entitled than there's at that age? Perhaps during a prolonged war that can be said but in general I think that's a common sentiment because of the way we recall our own history is emotional and selective, not objective.
Comments
That was back in the day when people took responsibility for their own actions. Those days are long gone. Now it's always everyone else's fault and how much $$$ can I get out of them.
Frankly, I've had enough of the childless losers lecturing parents on how easy it is to monitor every second of a kids life. You don't have a clue about this.
Its not 'nanny' to put the simple work into store design to allow a simple, obvious cut-off for in-app purchases.
The problem is that in-app is a cash-cow and neither developers nor Apple really want to make it easy to disable.
Stop pontificating on things you don't understand.
I agree that parents that use an iPad as a babysitter are just using ignorance to cover their own stupidity. There are controls and procedures that can be used to prevent kids from doing this.
Apple could (and should) implement something that makes it pretty much a "bonehead" on/off switch like a kids-mode. Case closed. If parent's are STUPID enough to give their kids the password, all bets are off. If Apple were to get a 2nd phone call a month or two later from this same family, I hope Apple tells them to consider just paying for a babysitter instead and accept responsibility.
Now, that being said.... I think the developer should get some flak for making it even possible to let something as stupid as a Simpson's game, clearly intended for kids, to rack up those kind of charges. That's downright robbery. It's a slippery slope if Apple were to force developers on revenue limits in an app, but I think the developer is obviously hoping that Apple refunding the 1% of screwups and moving on is surely better since the other 99% are okay or no one will dispute it.
Back in the day? There is a long history of humanity attributing events and placing blame erroneously.
Maybe Apple could enforce a $1 or $2 daily in-app purchase limit per app?
Back in the day it was nice when we bought games on a disk and this kind of thing didn't happen.
That is not correct. At least on some versions of iOS, if you enter the password to download a game, the password remains active for 15 minutes - without requiring that it be re-entered.
I believe Apple has changed that in the latest version, but it should have been 'no delay' from the start.
Another simple idea. Give apps a rating, G for small kids, and don't allow in app purchases for G rated apps.
Another simple idea is that a user should be allowed to set global limits on in app purchases, a daily, weekly and monthly rate. When you hit the limit, you have to authorise a new limit for that day, week or month.
Same could be done for non wifi downloads. Let me tell iOS how much is a safe non wifi download (by day week and month) and it alerts me when I get there.
Don't know if any of that is feasible. But it would help the 90% of customers who don't know much about this stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstw23
BTW it didn't happen in the UK
Bristol is in the Netherlands now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwhiteco
Back in the day it was nice when we bought games on a disk and this kind of thing didn't happen.
Back in the day it was nice when we (kids) played outside and got some fresh air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Back in the day? There is a long history of humanity attributing events and placing blame erroneously.
Yeah, but as little as twenty years ago, a parent trying to blame Apple for something like this would be "outrageous" and they would get no sympathy at all from the press.
Today it's the front page of all the British newspapers and the opinion of the media outlets and most of the opinion of the readers falls on the side of the parents. That's a big change. People really *are* much more selfish and self-centred and they really *do* have a greatly increased sense of entitlement than at any time for at least the last 100 years or so.
And you get the email receipt immediately not the next day which could've prevented the bill from getting so high. All of you that blame the parents are idiots, do you stand over your child's (if you have any) shoulder, and monitor there usage at ALL times? No of course not. It doesn't take long to rack up a pretty big bill with these IAPs. Last week while getting my hair cut I let my son use a iPod to play games instead of sitting there bored. I had my eye on him the whole time but he could've very easily made some IAPs right under my nose. Good thing I always look him in the eye and tell him "DO NOT buy anything".
And miss out on their 30% cut? Yeah ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
Frankly, I've had enough of the childless losers lecturing parents on how easy it is to monitor every second of a kids life. You don't have a clue about this.
Its not 'nanny' to put the simple work into store design to allow a simple, obvious cut-off for in-app purchases.
The problem is that in-app is a cash-cow and neither developers nor Apple really want to make it easy to disable.
Stop pontificating on things you don't understand.
Settings > General > Restrictions > Enable, and choose what you want or don't want your kid to do. Looks like Apple already put in the simple work. Now it looks like parents need to put in the simple work to understand what they are giving their kids. iPhones and mobile phones in general are not marketed as devices to share. iPads are debatable, but are still set up as single-user devices.
That said, I understand your plight. Parenting is hard, and for those who choose to do it, I applaud them. Though trying to win 'childless losers' over to your argument might be hard when insulting them at the same time. You vilify just as much as the side your fighting against and expect better treatment?
Because they trust Apple and the 'Walled Garden' but unbeknownst to them there be snakes in the garden.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
That's not completely accurate. You can have separate Apple ID for services (icloud, facetime, .. etc) and another for App Store purchases on the same device. I have an Apple ID for purchases only and I use it for all my ios devices (used by me, my wife, and my son) and each device use its users Apple ID for services like FaceTime, iMessages, iCloud, etc.
Apologies, I misread the iTunes T&C. It's just auto downloads & iTunes match that can't be changed often on iOS & OS X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicwalmsley
Another simple idea. Give apps a rating, G for small kids, and don't allow in app purchases for G rated apps.
Another simple idea is that a user should be allowed to set global limits on in app purchases, a daily, weekly and monthly rate. When you hit the limit, you have to authorise a new limit for that day, week or month.
Same could be done for non wifi downloads. Let me tell iOS how much is a safe non wifi download (by day week and month) and it alerts me when I get there.
Don't know if any of that is feasible. But it would help the 90% of customers who don't know much about this stuff.
See how many of the top free apps are games for kids with in IAP. In App Purchasing is how Apple encouraged developers to make money, I suspect demo's of paid apps could help the situation, but many parents don't want to buy apps, in the belief they can entertain the kids for free.
More settings for limits are a reasonable idea, but these users are already failing to setup restrictions or disable the the store login timeout.
That's like people with prodigy children asking you "what do you mean your son can't compose a Symphony?"
One solution to IAP is to ask permission when you first run the app (like location services) and have the ability to turn IAP for each app individually. However, I am already tired of all these popups. Why do 99% of users suffer just because some people are lazy!
The targets have changed but humanity has not. 100 years ago we blamed things on false science or even just more superstition but today we have a lot more information in our reach but with that excessive amount of info comes the ability to miss something because there is so much to absorb. Apple wasn't around then but if you go back to before the iPhone there was no inexpensive Apple product that could easily be tied to excessive costs or usage. Even the iPods didn't have any wireless capabilities and there was no app store.
Has there ever been a generation that hasn't said that they newer one is more spoiled and more entitled than there's at that age? Perhaps during a prolonged war that can be said but in general I think that's a common sentiment because of the way we recall our own history is emotional and selective, not objective.