<strong>If you are thinking about the education market you have to talk to teachers....and they think of three things:
1. Cost, crt's are still cheaper.
2. Ease of use, crt's and LCD's are the same as desktops, if mobility is an issue, you get iBooks anyway. Why buy an lcd iMac that is (to a teacher) merely a really heavy, awkward iBook.
3. Durability, crt's are much more rugged.
4. Security, crt's are alot harder to steal and are not as cool to steal anymore.
Whatever other stuff you guys come up with is irrelevant to teachers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
According to these claims you are saying that the CRT iMac will always be in the edu market... I mean a CRT will always be "not as cool to steal anymore" and not more functinal then an LCD. so why have *ANY* flat panels in the edu market (using your reasoning...)
I'd get 20 of those this year for my work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that this would be one of the greatest products that Apple could put out. They dont have to make a lot of them up front. It would briing more people into the Mac market for the same reason the iMac did, Power Macs are now affordable. It covers an area of the market that Apple does not have a product for, those who already have a monitor or want a larger monitor. And they might sell more to one of their core markets, the graphics pros who want another Mac for home.
L3 really cuts into the margins and it's usually not a deciding factor on new machine purchase, especially since the iMac also lacks L3 as do all PC's. The RAM is easy to upgrade... it should be kept at the minimum OS X requires. The extra $20 or so that it saves Apple would be good for their bottom line. Also, you really can't get 20GB hard drives for much less than a 40GB. Pricewatch shows $58 for a 20 and $67 for a 40. THose prices should reflect the difference Apple pays for that hardware. $9. Not big savings.
[quote] ummm it would be the same speed that the CRTs are currently selling at... Wrong again..<hr></blockquote>
The only people buying those are schools, everyone else is buying the current LCDs.. so wrong...
[quote] umm 20 gigs isnt all that small. and it is for the education market not people who are online 24/7 with a cable modem stealing music (besides, people who can afford a cable modem can afford a bigger HD or a better iMac)
<hr></blockquote>
Uh, gee, I wasn't aware that of the 6 million iMacs sold, all of them were for eductaion. So, yea, 20 gigs would be too small for today's consumer market.....wrong again
[quote] for the market that this is for, a CDROM would be plenty, if they wanted to Burn CDs they would get the $1299 version or use an ext. burner..<hr></blockquote>
HAHAHAHAHA, does anyone actually make a CD only machine anymore? hahaha, so wrong
[quote] All of your points were not well-founded... does anyone else have any meaningful reasons why a $999 iMac would not be feasable?
<hr></blockquote>
Well, why I agree a 999 iMac would be great for Apple, I don't agree with posters belittling others because their view points differ. And not only were your points not well founded, most were obsurd.
Only time will get us a 999 LCD iMac. In the meantime, the CRT old iMacs are doing just fine at $799, so what's the point of LCD iMac for eductaion?
quote: "ummm it would be the same speed that the CRTs are currently selling at... Wrong again.."
The only people buying those are schools, everyone else is buying the current LCDs.. so wrong...<hr></blockquote>hmm there seems to be people looking to buy the old CRTs at the cheaper price.. see <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000299"; target="_blank">here</a> so that is not completely wrong at all.. maybe a 700MHz G3 would be better. The point is that it would be a viable alternative to the CRTs. [quote] quote:"umm 20 gigs isnt all that small. and it is for the education market not people who are online 24/7 with a cable modem stealing music (besides, people who can afford a cable modem can afford a bigger HD or a better iMac)"
Uh, gee, I wasn't aware that of the 6 million iMacs sold, all of them were for eductaion. So, yea, 20 gigs would be too small for today's consumer market.....wrong again <hr></blockquote> While I aggree that 20gigs is too small for most consumers, that does not mean that a lot of bargain basement PCs dont have 20 gig drives in them. Besides after reading outsider's post above a 20 gig drive is just as expensive as a 40 gig, so it would probably be the latter anyway... [quote] quote:"for the market that this is for, a CDROM would be plenty, if they wanted to Burn CDs they would get the $1299 version or use an ext. burner.."
HAHAHAHAHA, does anyone actually make a CD only machine anymore? hahaha, so wrong <hr></blockquote> yes see: <a href="http://www.apple.com/ibook/"; target="_blank">here</a> <a href="http://www.apple.com/imac/g3/"; target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/products/model_dimen_1_dimen_100d.htm"; target="_blank">here (note 20 Gig HD)</a> [quote] quote:"All of your points were not well-founded... does anyone else have any meaningful reasons why a $999 iMac would not be feasable?"
Well, why I agree a 999 iMac would be great for Apple, I don't agree with posters belittling others because their view points differ. And not only were your points not well founded, most were obsurd.
Only time will get us a 999 LCD iMac. In the meantime, the CRT old iMacs are doing just fine at $799, so what's the point of LCD iMac for eductaion?<hr></blockquote>
Funny, if you really belived "I don't agree with posters belittling others because their view points differ" you wouldn't have posted like you did...
and just because my idea about a $999 LCD iMac may have been a little out there, GNOM's "rebuttal" was not all that convincing as my original reasons on why his thoughts were unfounded are pretty acurate. Belle and Esher on the other hand had much stonger arguments...
[quote] yes see: here here and here (note 20 Gig HD)
quote: <hr></blockquote>
Ok, the iBook, old iMac and a Dell. Come on, you're strecthing now. CD-Roms arwe dead, deal with it.
[quote] Funny, if you really belived "I don't agree with posters belittling others because their view points differ" you wouldn't have posted like you did...<hr></blockquote>
It's called sarcasim
[quote] and just because my idea about a $999 LCD iMac may have been a little out there, GNOM's "rebuttal" was not all that convincing as my original reasons on why his thoughts were unfounded are pretty acurate. Belle and Esher on the other hand had much stonger arguments... <hr></blockquote>
The whole point of my tone in my reply was to say that his opinion is just as grounded as yours. If someone has an opinion that differs from yours, they do not need to 'convince' you of anything. If you want someone's indepth, intelligent 'rebuttal' to your posed question, then reply with "please elaborate" or can you 'explain further or site evidence" instead of belittling someone because they gave short quick opinions.
So I felt like I should stick up for the guy. Relax,
<strong>wow Gnom got shot the **** down earlier in this thread. Sad but funny to read. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
But I think psantora is forgetting about competition. Yea, the iMac he descrived would do just fine in a school environment with those low specifications. The problem is that PC makers will give them a better deal with better specifications.
The LCD iMac will not sell in K-12. It's just not what schools are looking for unfortunately.
the CRT iMac is a better fit for schools. and the iBook.
Well, I hate to interrupt, but someone had asked about dual layer DVDs. I believe that they can be read, but not created by consumer machines. That's why you will only ever see 4.7 Gb or 9.4Gb (double sided, not double layered).
Sorry, I know it's a little late, but I just registered. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
Well, after all the discussion, I still like psantora's original idea. By the time Apple would do this, the price could no doubt be even lower. It would make a good entry level computer or kids computer. It would not be sold as a digital hub device at all. Many say it would not sell in K-12 market for schools. That's okay. It would sell well enough elsewhere. Once Apple had such a product, I'll bet schools would buy it too. Maybe not all, but some would.
<strong>Well, after all the discussion, I still like psantora's original idea. By the time Apple would do this, the price could no doubt be even lower. It would make a good entry level computer or kids computer. It would not be sold as a digital hub device at all. Many say it would not sell in K-12 market for schools. That's okay. It would sell well enough elsewhere. Once Apple had such a product, I'll bet schools would buy it too. Maybe not all, but some would.</strong><hr></blockquote>
perhaps you missed apple's strategy with the digital hub.
the machine that psantora describes would kill apple's digital hub strategy. no itunes burning, no dvd, no CDRW, no DVD playback.
Apple offers a lowend iMac LCD now, for 1299. the specs won't get lower than that.
and you still are ignoring the fact that PCs in the price range would outspec the machine in every category
I guess we don't see Apple's digital hub strategy the same way. I'm guessing from what you say, you believe all Macs from now on should function in the digital hub. On the other hand, I don't see a need to restrict a product like that. If it makes business sense to produce a Mac that does not have iPhoto et al, why not do it? Of course, do we know what Steve has in mind? It doesn't matter what we think.
Comments
<strong>If you are thinking about the education market you have to talk to teachers....and they think of three things:
1. Cost, crt's are still cheaper.
2. Ease of use, crt's and LCD's are the same as desktops, if mobility is an issue, you get iBooks anyway. Why buy an lcd iMac that is (to a teacher) merely a really heavy, awkward iBook.
3. Durability, crt's are much more rugged.
4. Security, crt's are alot harder to steal and are not as cool to steal anymore.
Whatever other stuff you guys come up with is irrelevant to teachers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
According to these claims you are saying that the CRT iMac will always be in the edu market... I mean a CRT will always be "not as cool to steal anymore" and not more functinal then an LCD. so why have *ANY* flat panels in the edu market (using your reasoning...)
800MHz no L3
128MB RAM
40GB HDD
CD-ROM
cheapest video card above Rage128
no modem.
I'd get 20 of those this year for my work.
<strong>I'd rather see a $999 G4 tower.
800MHz no L3
128MB RAM
40GB HDD
CD-ROM
cheapest video card above Rage128
no modem.
I'd get 20 of those this year for my work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd also like to see that rather than an iMac.
<strong>I'd rather see a $999 G4 tower.
800MHz no L3
128MB RAM
40GB HDD
CD-ROM
cheapest video card above Rage128
no modem.
I'd get 20 of those this year for my work.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that this would be one of the greatest products that Apple could put out. They dont have to make a lot of them up front. It would briing more people into the Mac market for the same reason the iMac did, Power Macs are now affordable. It covers an area of the market that Apple does not have a product for, those who already have a monitor or want a larger monitor. And they might sell more to one of their core markets, the graphics pros who want another Mac for home.
$999
800MHz 2MB L3
256MB RAM
20GB HDD
CD-ROM
Any Radeon Vid card
no modem.
$1499
Dual 800MHz 2MB L3
512MB RAM
20GB HDD
CD-ROM
Any Radeon Vid card
no modem.
$1999
Dual 1GHz 2MB L3
1024MB RAM
20GB HDD
CD-ROM
Any Radeon Vid card
no modem.
I think this is a possibility, and they would sell like hotcakes, i know i could talk my boss into buying around 10 or so of the midrange.
$2499
Dual 1GHz G5
1024MB RAM
20GB HDD
CD-ROM
Any Radeon Vid card
no modem.
dream machine.
[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: dartblazer ]</p>
If they did, the current top of the line CRT 600 iMac's should go down to $799 and be really attractive to schools.
The only people buying those are schools, everyone else is buying the current LCDs.. so wrong...
[quote] umm 20 gigs isnt all that small. and it is for the education market not people who are online 24/7 with a cable modem stealing music (besides, people who can afford a cable modem can afford a bigger HD or a better iMac)
<hr></blockquote>
Uh, gee, I wasn't aware that of the 6 million iMacs sold, all of them were for eductaion. So, yea, 20 gigs would be too small for today's consumer market.....wrong again
[quote] for the market that this is for, a CDROM would be plenty, if they wanted to Burn CDs they would get the $1299 version or use an ext. burner..<hr></blockquote>
HAHAHAHAHA, does anyone actually make a CD only machine anymore? hahaha, so wrong
[quote] All of your points were not well-founded... does anyone else have any meaningful reasons why a $999 iMac would not be feasable?
<hr></blockquote>
Well, why I agree a 999 iMac would be great for Apple, I don't agree with posters belittling others because their view points differ. And not only were your points not well founded, most were obsurd.
Only time will get us a 999 LCD iMac. In the meantime, the CRT old iMacs are doing just fine at $799, so what's the point of LCD iMac for eductaion?
quote: "ummm it would be the same speed that the CRTs are currently selling at... Wrong again.."
The only people buying those are schools, everyone else is buying the current LCDs.. so wrong...<hr></blockquote>hmm there seems to be people looking to buy the old CRTs at the cheaper price.. see <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000299"; target="_blank">here</a> so that is not completely wrong at all.. maybe a 700MHz G3 would be better. The point is that it would be a viable alternative to the CRTs. [quote] quote:"umm 20 gigs isnt all that small. and it is for the education market not people who are online 24/7 with a cable modem stealing music (besides, people who can afford a cable modem can afford a bigger HD or a better iMac)"
Uh, gee, I wasn't aware that of the 6 million iMacs sold, all of them were for eductaion. So, yea, 20 gigs would be too small for today's consumer market.....wrong again <hr></blockquote> While I aggree that 20gigs is too small for most consumers, that does not mean that a lot of bargain basement PCs dont have 20 gig drives in them. Besides after reading outsider's post above a 20 gig drive is just as expensive as a 40 gig, so it would probably be the latter anyway... [quote] quote:"for the market that this is for, a CDROM would be plenty, if they wanted to Burn CDs they would get the $1299 version or use an ext. burner.."
HAHAHAHAHA, does anyone actually make a CD only machine anymore? hahaha, so wrong <hr></blockquote> yes see: <a href="http://www.apple.com/ibook/"; target="_blank">here</a> <a href="http://www.apple.com/imac/g3/"; target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/products/model_dimen_1_dimen_100d.htm"; target="_blank">here (note 20 Gig HD)</a> [quote] quote:"All of your points were not well-founded... does anyone else have any meaningful reasons why a $999 iMac would not be feasable?"
Well, why I agree a 999 iMac would be great for Apple, I don't agree with posters belittling others because their view points differ. And not only were your points not well founded, most were obsurd.
Only time will get us a 999 LCD iMac. In the meantime, the CRT old iMacs are doing just fine at $799, so what's the point of LCD iMac for eductaion?<hr></blockquote>
Funny, if you really belived "I don't agree with posters belittling others because their view points differ" you wouldn't have posted like you did...
and just because my idea about a $999 LCD iMac may have been a little out there, GNOM's "rebuttal" was not all that convincing as my original reasons on why his thoughts were unfounded are pretty acurate. Belle and Esher on the other hand had much stonger arguments...
[ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: psantora ]</p>
quote: <hr></blockquote>
Ok, the iBook, old iMac and a Dell. Come on, you're strecthing now. CD-Roms arwe dead, deal with it.
[quote] Funny, if you really belived "I don't agree with posters belittling others because their view points differ" you wouldn't have posted like you did...<hr></blockquote>
It's called sarcasim
[quote] and just because my idea about a $999 LCD iMac may have been a little out there, GNOM's "rebuttal" was not all that convincing as my original reasons on why his thoughts were unfounded are pretty acurate. Belle and Esher on the other hand had much stonger arguments... <hr></blockquote>
The whole point of my tone in my reply was to say that his opinion is just as grounded as yours. If someone has an opinion that differs from yours, they do not need to 'convince' you of anything. If you want someone's indepth, intelligent 'rebuttal' to your posed question, then reply with "please elaborate" or can you 'explain further or site evidence" instead of belittling someone because they gave short quick opinions.
So I felt like I should stick up for the guy. Relax,
<strong>wow Gnom got shot the **** down earlier in this thread. Sad but funny to read. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
damnit SOS, you got me in trouble with kidred!!!
<strong>
damnit SOS, you got me in trouble with kidred!!!
hehehe
But I think psantora is forgetting about competition. Yea, the iMac he descrived would do just fine in a school environment with those low specifications. The problem is that PC makers will give them a better deal with better specifications.
The LCD iMac will not sell in K-12. It's just not what schools are looking for unfortunately.
the CRT iMac is a better fit for schools. and the iBook.
Sorry, I know it's a little late, but I just registered. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />
~bauman
<strong>Well, after all the discussion, I still like psantora's original idea. By the time Apple would do this, the price could no doubt be even lower. It would make a good entry level computer or kids computer. It would not be sold as a digital hub device at all. Many say it would not sell in K-12 market for schools. That's okay. It would sell well enough elsewhere. Once Apple had such a product, I'll bet schools would buy it too. Maybe not all, but some would.</strong><hr></blockquote>
perhaps you missed apple's strategy with the digital hub.
the machine that psantora describes would kill apple's digital hub strategy. no itunes burning, no dvd, no CDRW, no DVD playback.
Apple offers a lowend iMac LCD now, for 1299. the specs won't get lower than that.
and you still are ignoring the fact that PCs in the price range would outspec the machine in every category