It's more like, the opposing team studied Apple's plays (not their playbook as they don't have access to source code) and then constructed ways around Apple's plays. Apple has countered by changing up its game so those flawed plays can no longer be exploited.
A little more accurate but really saying the same thing.
But you act as if Apple has somehow "won". The game is not over... this cycle repeats itself again and again and again. Apple releases new version of iOS, hackers crack it, Apple releases fix; rinse and repeat. Only this is the first time that the jailbreakers have ever been acknowledged by Apple for their hard work.
I'd say that's pretty "cool" in their book.
Apple won this round but I agree it will go on and on. The point I was trying to make is I don't think Evad3rs were looking for recognition from Apple when they created the jailbreak. Recognition from the jailbreaking community yes, but I don't think from Apple. I can see how that recognition could be cool though. I still think Apple did it with a smirk on their face though.
iOS Jailbreak Dream Team. Others include people from Chrome and Blackberry. Credit seems to be given out regardless of who it's from.
Well then that refutes the point made earlier that somehow being acknowledged is a "slap to the face". If that were the case, they wouldn't still be going at it.
Well then that refutes the point made earlier that somehow being acknowledged is a "slap to the face". If that were the case, they wouldn't still be going at it.
Like I said before, it doesn't have to be an intentional slap in the face (a backhander perhaps) because the jailbreakers won't be submitting these exploits through the normal submission process. They aren't finding the exploits in order to get credit from Apple but rather to get credit from the jailbreak community for circumventing Apple's restrictions and those are contradictory forms of credit. The jailbreak community would thank them for allowing them to jailbreak, Apple is thanking them for helping them to stop the possibility of jailbreaking.
The fact that Apple invited MuscleNerd to their campus is enough evidence that they are not malicious about this and I'm sure they genuinely appreciate being able to patch undiscovered exploits but the jailbreak community won't be happy that they are patched. The team behind it might like the credit Apple gives them but I doubt it as it's for the wrong reasons.
The point I was trying to make is I don't think Evad3rs were looking for recognition from Apple when they created the jailbreak. Recognition from the jailbreaking community yes, but I don't think from Apple.
You don't think the jailbreaking community's going to give them recognition when the name of the group turns up on the screen of the hundreds of millions iOS devices at their next software update?
What hacker could resist that kind of social media!
Like I said before, it doesn't have to be an intentional slap in the face (a backhander perhaps) because the jailbreakers won't be submitting these exploits through the normal submission process. They aren't finding the exploits in order to get credit from Apple but rather to get credit from the jailbreak community for circumventing Apple's restrictions and those are contradictory forms of credit. The jailbreak community would thank them for allowing them to jailbreak, Apple is thanking them for helping them to stop the possibility of jailbreaking.
The fact that Apple invited MuscleNerd to their campus is enough evidence that they are not malicious about this and I'm sure they genuinely appreciate being able to patch undiscovered exploits but the jailbreak community won't be happy that they are patched. The team behind it might like the credit Apple gives them but I doubt it as it's for the wrong reasons.
I still think that you (and others) are looking at this as a black and white issue, when it's really a grey issue. There will always be people that will circumvent iOS software -- whether Apple acknowledges them or not won't change that fact.
iOS is not a stationary target, it's constantly moving/evolving, so there is always an opportunity to find a backdoor to enable more jailbreaks. Apple can patch the hell out of iOS, but where there's a will, there's a way. And there will always be a pimple-nosed freak in his mom's basement pegging away on his keyboard looking for a way to get through as long as people want apps like SBSettings or MyWi or DashboardX. If you just look at the tremendous response/downloads of the iOS 6.x jailbreak, you'd see that acknowledgements from Apple aren't going to stop the jailbreaking community from doing their job -- people want it!!
There will always be people that will circumvent iOS software -- whether Apple acknowledges them or not won't change that fact.
Sure but it's just that Apple's accolade might not be as meaningful to the people discovering the exploits that's all. I don't think the suggestion is that Apple is poking fun at them because they've outdone them, just that the team would most likely prefer that Apple didn't patch the exploit.
Sure but it's just that Apple's accolade might not be as meaningful to the people discovering the exploits that's all. I don't think the suggestion is that Apple is poking fun at them because they've outdone them, just that the team would most likely prefer that Apple didn't patch the exploit.
But that's the thing. Apple always patches the exploits. All of the people who develop jailbreak software know this. It's not a matter of if, it's when will Apple patch the exploits.
The moment a new jailbreak goes live, these guys know that they have only a few weeks or so before Apple closes the door. However, for the jailbreakers (people like me), we don't care and will stay on the latest version of iOS for our device that supports an untethered jailbreak.
So in going to stick with the iOS 6.1.2 jailbreak on my iPhone 5 until iOS 7 is jailbroken.
Done for all my devices. The only reason I jailbreak is for SBSettings, because I love having screen brightness, Airplane mode, Wifi and BT toggle among other things just a simple swipe away. If Apple would just copy that functionality instead of making me go through layers of settings menus, I'd be one happy user.
So update, even if you have saved blobs there is no going back to 6.1.2. Apple is playing serious hard mode here, this update is 99% out to kill jail breakers who think they've saved blobs and thought they were safe (i.e. me).
Why wouldn't you update to other untethered, JBen versions of iOS 6.x before iOS 7 appears?
Given how long it took the iOS 6.x jailbreak to see the light of day, I'm not entirely confident that a jailbreak for 6.1.3 will arrive -- that and the fact that 6.1.3 doesn't offer any feature benefits over 6.1.2 and only really fixes a real obscure lockscreen exploit.
Seems like a lot of wasted energy for little payoff for hackers. If by some chance they do release a 6.1.3 jailbreak, of course I'll update.
Given how long it took the iOS 6.x jailbreak to see the light of day, I'm not entirely confident that a jailbreak for 6.1.3 will arrive -- that and the fact that 6.1.3 doesn't offer any feature benefits over 6.1.2 and only really fixes a real obscure lockscreen exploit.
Seems like a lot of wasted energy for little payoff for hackers. If by some chance they do release a 6.1.3 jailbreak, of course I'll update.
I see.
Even if we see a 6.2.x at some point before 7.x I think it would have to be something major for evad3r to reveal another chink in the iOS armor.
Apple giving them credit for the fix I think is a slap to the face.
Yes, it's a slap in the face of the hackers.
Think about it. Apple's publicly saying, "Thanks for telling the public exactly what your exploits were so we could fix them immediately in the next version of our OS without having to reverse engineer anything!"
If anything, Apple is making them into an inside joke. Sort of an "oh, by the way, thanks for finding these holes, guys; they're gone now".
And what do the 114k folks that had their emails potentially sold to spammers get? He didn't need to harvest that many email addresses to make his point and he certainly didn't have to threaten to sell them etc
If AT&T did not care to react to his warning, yes he had to. That's how security works, sadly, due to lazy big corporations.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I don't think that's an accurate analogy at all.
It's more like, the opposing team studied Apple's plays (not their playbook as they don't have access to source code) and then constructed ways around Apple's plays. Apple has countered by changing up its game so those flawed plays can no longer be exploited.
A little more accurate but really saying the same thing.
I see a world of difference between studying plays that an opponent freely uses and stealing the information that contains all their plays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
But you act as if Apple has somehow "won". The game is not over... this cycle repeats itself again and again and again. Apple releases new version of iOS, hackers crack it, Apple releases fix; rinse and repeat. Only this is the first time that the jailbreakers have ever been acknowledged by Apple for their hard work.
I'd say that's pretty "cool" in their book.
Apple won this round but I agree it will go on and on. The point I was trying to make is I don't think Evad3rs were looking for recognition from Apple when they created the jailbreak. Recognition from the jailbreaking community yes, but I don't think from Apple. I can see how that recognition could be cool though. I still think Apple did it with a smirk on their face though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I see a world of difference between studying plays that an opponent freely uses and stealing the information that contains all their plays.
That was not the main part of my point but sure.
There was a link referenced earlier that showed they've acknowledged other jailbreakers before:
http://lists.apple.com/archives/security-announce/2012/Sep/msg00003.html
iOS Jailbreak Dream Team. Others include people from Chrome and Blackberry. Credit seems to be given out regardless of who it's from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
There was a link referenced earlier that showed they've acknowledged other jailbreakers before:
http://lists.apple.com/archives/security-announce/2012/Sep/msg00003.html
iOS Jailbreak Dream Team. Others include people from Chrome and Blackberry. Credit seems to be given out regardless of who it's from.
Well then that refutes the point made earlier that somehow being acknowledged is a "slap to the face". If that were the case, they wouldn't still be going at it.
Like I said before, it doesn't have to be an intentional slap in the face (a backhander perhaps) because the jailbreakers won't be submitting these exploits through the normal submission process. They aren't finding the exploits in order to get credit from Apple but rather to get credit from the jailbreak community for circumventing Apple's restrictions and those are contradictory forms of credit. The jailbreak community would thank them for allowing them to jailbreak, Apple is thanking them for helping them to stop the possibility of jailbreaking.
The fact that Apple invited MuscleNerd to their campus is enough evidence that they are not malicious about this and I'm sure they genuinely appreciate being able to patch undiscovered exploits but the jailbreak community won't be happy that they are patched. The team behind it might like the credit Apple gives them but I doubt it as it's for the wrong reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada
The point I was trying to make is I don't think Evad3rs were looking for recognition from Apple when they created the jailbreak. Recognition from the jailbreaking community yes, but I don't think from Apple.
You don't think the jailbreaking community's going to give them recognition when the name of the group turns up on the screen of the hundreds of millions iOS devices at their next software update?
What hacker could resist that kind of social media!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Like I said before, it doesn't have to be an intentional slap in the face (a backhander perhaps) because the jailbreakers won't be submitting these exploits through the normal submission process. They aren't finding the exploits in order to get credit from Apple but rather to get credit from the jailbreak community for circumventing Apple's restrictions and those are contradictory forms of credit. The jailbreak community would thank them for allowing them to jailbreak, Apple is thanking them for helping them to stop the possibility of jailbreaking.
The fact that Apple invited MuscleNerd to their campus is enough evidence that they are not malicious about this and I'm sure they genuinely appreciate being able to patch undiscovered exploits but the jailbreak community won't be happy that they are patched. The team behind it might like the credit Apple gives them but I doubt it as it's for the wrong reasons.
I still think that you (and others) are looking at this as a black and white issue, when it's really a grey issue. There will always be people that will circumvent iOS software -- whether Apple acknowledges them or not won't change that fact.
iOS is not a stationary target, it's constantly moving/evolving, so there is always an opportunity to find a backdoor to enable more jailbreaks. Apple can patch the hell out of iOS, but where there's a will, there's a way. And there will always be a pimple-nosed freak in his mom's basement pegging away on his keyboard looking for a way to get through as long as people want apps like SBSettings or MyWi or DashboardX. If you just look at the tremendous response/downloads of the iOS 6.x jailbreak, you'd see that acknowledgements from Apple aren't going to stop the jailbreaking community from doing their job -- people want it!!
Sure but it's just that Apple's accolade might not be as meaningful to the people discovering the exploits that's all. I don't think the suggestion is that Apple is poking fun at them because they've outdone them, just that the team would most likely prefer that Apple didn't patch the exploit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Sure but it's just that Apple's accolade might not be as meaningful to the people discovering the exploits that's all. I don't think the suggestion is that Apple is poking fun at them because they've outdone them, just that the team would most likely prefer that Apple didn't patch the exploit.
But that's the thing. Apple always patches the exploits. All of the people who develop jailbreak software know this. It's not a matter of if, it's when will Apple patch the exploits.
The moment a new jailbreak goes live, these guys know that they have only a few weeks or so before Apple closes the door. However, for the jailbreakers (people like me), we don't care and will stay on the latest version of iOS for our device that supports an untethered jailbreak.
So in going to stick with the iOS 6.1.2 jailbreak on my iPhone 5 until iOS 7 is jailbroken.
Why wouldn't you update to other untethered, JBen versions of iOS 6.x before iOS 7 appears?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907
Done for all my devices. The only reason I jailbreak is for SBSettings, because I love having screen brightness, Airplane mode, Wifi and BT toggle among other things just a simple swipe away. If Apple would just copy that functionality instead of making me go through layers of settings menus, I'd be one happy user.
So update, even if you have saved blobs there is no going back to 6.1.2. Apple is playing serious hard mode here, this update is 99% out to kill jail breakers who think they've saved blobs and thought they were safe (i.e. me).
http://www.evad3rs.net/2013/03/ios-613-jailbreak-or-ios-7-jailbreak.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Why wouldn't you update to other untethered, JBen versions of iOS 6.x before iOS 7 appears?
Given how long it took the iOS 6.x jailbreak to see the light of day, I'm not entirely confident that a jailbreak for 6.1.3 will arrive -- that and the fact that 6.1.3 doesn't offer any feature benefits over 6.1.2 and only really fixes a real obscure lockscreen exploit.
Seems like a lot of wasted energy for little payoff for hackers. If by some chance they do release a 6.1.3 jailbreak, of course I'll update.
I see.
Even if we see a 6.2.x at some point before 7.x I think it would have to be something major for evad3r to reveal another chink in the iOS armor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I see.
Even if we see a 6.2.x at some point before 7.x I think it would have to be something major for evad3r to reveal another chink in the iOS armor.
Yup, I bet they're saving everything they've found to unleash on iOS 7.
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada
Apple giving them credit for the fix I think is a slap to the face.
Yes, it's a slap in the face of the hackers.
Think about it. Apple's publicly saying, "Thanks for telling the public exactly what your exploits were so we could fix them immediately in the next version of our OS without having to reverse engineer anything!"
If anything, Apple is making them into an inside joke. Sort of an "oh, by the way, thanks for finding these holes, guys; they're gone now".
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
And what do the 114k folks that had their emails potentially sold to spammers get? He didn't need to harvest that many email addresses to make his point and he certainly didn't have to threaten to sell them etc
If AT&T did not care to react to his warning, yes he had to. That's how security works, sadly, due to lazy big corporations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
If anything, Apple is making them into an inside joke. Sort of an "oh, by the way, thanks for finding these holes, guys; they're gone now".
You say this as if the hackers didn't already know that Apple would patch it up. Do you think that the next version of iOS will somehow be hackproof?