Earlier in the decade that had a different CEO, who is no longer with us. There is no question that Tim Cook is a very good supply chain guy, and his execution of Steve Jobs' strategy is very good. What is not clear is what their vision is going forward. The fact that they are wasting shareholders' money by keeping it in a sock without a word of explanation is a VERY bad sign. If you don't think so, please feel free to add to your Apple holdings (I have actually increased mine lately, but am living to regret it so far).
That's ridiculous.
Jobs, more than anyone, kept his mouth shut about future products. If anything, they're talking more now than they used to.
Apple has increased by (almost) seventy WHEN Cook took over, since the uncertainty about Jobs' role went away together with Jobs himself. Just before their blockbuster Q1 2012 results (remember, their Q1 is calendar Q4 of the previous year, so Steve was alive for half of it) their stock was trading at $420, so not much below today's price. Two months later Cook sold basically ALL of his stock at $550. The rest of us should have paid attention, I guess.
It's at 450 now. 30 points is nothing to sneeze at.
Ah the perils of being an Apple investor... information-wise we live in the dark most of the time and in times like these when the stock is in the tank we just have to trust that Apple will continue to innovate and execute in amazing ways. The problem is that since Steve Jobs has been gone, we have not really seen that. It's harder to trust.
Tim Cook has talked about how the product pipeline is "chock full" for 2013, but he also said that 2012 was an incredible year of innovation for the company. Apple has definitely slipped in my opinion, but I am still hopeful they will regain their footing - both as an investor and as a fan. With that said, I wouldn't be betting the farm on them. Things change too fast in the mobile space.
As far as dividends and buybacks... revenue growth takes care of lots of problems. People will not be having these conversations if sales start back in the right direction again!
Ah the perils of being an Apple investor... information-wise we live in the dark most of the time and in times like these when the stock is in the tank we just have to trust that Apple will continue to innovate and execute in amazing ways. The problem is that since Steve Jobs has been gone, we have not really seen that. It's harder to trust.
Tim Cook has talked about how the product pipeline is "chock full" for 2013, but he also said that 2012 was an incredible year of innovation for the company. Apple has definitely slipped in my opinion...
Yes, I follow Apple, but I'm not sure what you are asking. What I'm saying is I can't understand why Apple has to be so secretive about what they are doing. There were many portable players before the iPod, there were cell phones before the iPhone, there were tablet computers before the iPad. And there are TVs before the iTV and computer wrist devices before the iWatch. What Apple does is make things better than anyone else. So unless they have some brand new product that no one ever imagined, I don't see why they can't let us know what's in the pipeline and what the target date is.
Yes, I follow Apple, but I'm not sure what you are asking. What I'm saying is I can't understand why Apple has to be so secretive about what they are doing. There were many portable players before the iPod, there were cell phones before the iPhone, there were tablet computers before the iPad. And there are TVs before the iTV and computer wrist devices before the iWatch. What Apple does is make things better than anyone else. So unless they have some brand new product that no one ever imagined, I don't see why they can't let us know what's in the pipeline and what the target date is.
Easy, competitive advantage. Also they still need to sell what they make now. They rarely announce a product unless it'll be shipping within weeks.
Not in the least. You said that Apple was screwing up in recent days by not disclosing what they're working on.
Since that was standard behavior under Jobs - and appears to be loosening up, your statement was just plain wrong.
What I wrote is below. I do NOT say that Apple should disclose what they are working on, but their general strategic direction, and why they need a pile of cash reaching to the moon. Had they come out with something amazing product wise, or a fresh business idea, after Jobs' passing, some of the heat would have been off Cook and Co. They have not (they came out with the iPad mini, which was an obvious idea, executed nicely but with the obvious intent to suck as much money out of their loyal customers as possible, but jacking up the price [a friend of mine working on the Kindle at the Amazon tells me that there was a huge cheer when the huddled masses heard the price, since Apple could have killed them had the price been, oh, $100 less] and keeping the specs scummy (1024x768, lower res than the phone? C'mon...) My wife has it, likes it, and almost certainly will need to get the retina one when it comes out. I resent it, don't know about you, almost as much as I resent forking out a couple of hundred bucks for Lightning accessories functionally identical to their predecessor. Steve pulled this sort of shit, and Tim learned well, but you can get away with it only if your products are REALLY cool.
Earlier in the decade that had a different CEO, who is no longer with us. There is no question that Tim Cook is a very good supply chain guy, and his execution of Steve Jobs' strategy is very good. What is not clear is what their vision is going forward. The fact that they are wasting shareholders' money by keeping it in a sock without a word of explanation is a VERY bad sign. If you don't think so, please feel free to add to your Apple holdings (I have actually increased mine lately, but am living to regret it so far).
I guess my bottom line is that Apple's management should do and say SOMETHING more to reassure investors when the company is losing so much market value. It seems to me that they see their stockholders with very little regard. They have a lot of very smart people working at Apple. Some of them should be involved with PR.
There were many portable players before the iPod, there were cell phones before the iPhone, there were tablet computers before the iPad.
That's meaningless. They all sucked. Know why they all sucked? Because Apple didn't give them a head start. NOTHING like what Apple releases existed before they released it, and that's partially because Apple didn't give anyone a heads up that they were about to release them.
Telling people about a product before release lets competitors make said product and steal sales.
What Apple does is make things better than anyone else. So unless they have some brand new product that no one ever imagined…
Like a music player with a wheel, a smartphone without a keyboard, and a tablet without a desktop OS, you mean?
Originally Posted by insider7
I guess my bottom line is that Apple's management should do and say SOMETHING more to reassure investors when the company is losing so much market value. It seems to me that they see their stockholders with very little regard.
"We have more actual cash than most countries. We make higher profits YoY every year. We sell more product YoY every year. Keep whining and we'll go private."
You're right that they don't care much about their shareholders. It's because they don't need them as anything but customers (and even then, not at all).
I guess my bottom line is that Apple's management should do and say SOMETHING more to reassure investors when the company is losing so much market value. It seems to me that they see their stockholders with very little regard. They have a lot of very smart people working at Apple. Some of them should be involved with PR.
Imagine if Apple announced the iPad 6-9 months in advance. Google wouldn't have been scrambling to release Android 3.0. And maybe they would have a competent tablet OS for cheap tablets and steal Apple's thunder. Or the critics would have had 6-9 months to crap on the iPad, driving customer interest down and setting the iPad as a failure.
That's meaningless. They all sucked. Know why they all sucked? Because Apple didn't give them a head start. NOTHING like what Apple releases existed before they released it, and that's partially because Apple didn't give anyone a heads up that they were about to release them.
Telling people about a product before release lets competitors make said product and steal sales.
Like a music player with a wheel, a smartphone without a keyboard, and a tablet without a desktop OS, you mean?
"We have more actual cash than most countries. We make higher profits YoY every year. We sell more product YoY every year. Keep whining and we'll go private."
You're right that they don't care much about their shareholders. It's because they don't need them as anything but customers (and even then, not at all).
Let me paraphrase your first paragraph:
"There is no lord but Apple, and Steve Jobs is its prophet"
As for your last paragraph, you have just explained why people are busy dumping their stock. Nice work.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So you've never followed Apple, then?
What have they actually said?
Originally Posted by igriv
The fact that they are wasting shareholders' money by doing the exact same thing they've been doing for the past fifteen years is a VERY bad sign.
This is you.
Originally Posted by igriv
What have they actually said?
Nothing. That's the point.
That's ridiculous.
Jobs, more than anyone, kept his mouth shut about future products. If anything, they're talking more now than they used to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
It's at 450 now. 30 points is nothing to sneeze at.
Thirty points is 6.7% The stock market is up 15% since then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
The fact that they are wasting shareholders' money by doing the exact same thing they've been doing for the past fifteen years is a VERY bad sign.
This is you.
Originally Posted by igriv
What have they actually said?
Nothing. That's the point.
The bold face text is yours, not mine. This is completely unacceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
That's ridiculous.
Jobs, more than anyone, kept his mouth shut about future products. If anything, they're talking more now than they used to.
Your response is completely orthogonal to my post you were responding to.
Originally Posted by igriv
The bold face text is yours, not mine.
I see you've completely missed the point of what I was saying. That's fine.
Ah the perils of being an Apple investor... information-wise we live in the dark most of the time and in times like these when the stock is in the tank we just have to trust that Apple will continue to innovate and execute in amazing ways. The problem is that since Steve Jobs has been gone, we have not really seen that. It's harder to trust.
Tim Cook has talked about how the product pipeline is "chock full" for 2013, but he also said that 2012 was an incredible year of innovation for the company. Apple has definitely slipped in my opinion, but I am still hopeful they will regain their footing - both as an investor and as a fan. With that said, I wouldn't be betting the farm on them. Things change too fast in the mobile space.
As far as dividends and buybacks... revenue growth takes care of lots of problems. People will not be having these conversations if sales start back in the right direction again!
How?
Jobs has been gone 20 months.
Not in the least. You said that Apple was screwing up in recent days by not disclosing what they're working on.
Since that was standard behavior under Jobs - and appears to be loosening up, your statement was just plain wrong.
Easy, competitive advantage. Also they still need to sell what they make now. They rarely announce a product unless it'll be shipping within weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I see you've completely missed the point of what I was saying. That's fine.
No, you represented your words as mine, which is not acceptable. Can I be any clearer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Not in the least. You said that Apple was screwing up in recent days by not disclosing what they're working on.
Since that was standard behavior under Jobs - and appears to be loosening up, your statement was just plain wrong.
What I wrote is below. I do NOT say that Apple should disclose what they are working on, but their general strategic direction, and why they need a pile of cash reaching to the moon. Had they come out with something amazing product wise, or a fresh business idea, after Jobs' passing, some of the heat would have been off Cook and Co. They have not (they came out with the iPad mini, which was an obvious idea, executed nicely but with the obvious intent to suck as much money out of their loyal customers as possible, but jacking up the price [a friend of mine working on the Kindle at the Amazon tells me that there was a huge cheer when the huddled masses heard the price, since Apple could have killed them had the price been, oh, $100 less] and keeping the specs scummy (1024x768, lower res than the phone? C'mon...) My wife has it, likes it, and almost certainly will need to get the retina one when it comes out. I resent it, don't know about you, almost as much as I resent forking out a couple of hundred bucks for Lightning accessories functionally identical to their predecessor. Steve pulled this sort of shit, and Tim learned well, but you can get away with it only if your products are REALLY cool.
Earlier in the decade that had a different CEO, who is no longer with us. There is no question that Tim Cook is a very good supply chain guy, and his execution of Steve Jobs' strategy is very good. What is not clear is what their vision is going forward. The fact that they are wasting shareholders' money by keeping it in a sock without a word of explanation is a VERY bad sign. If you don't think so, please feel free to add to your Apple holdings (I have actually increased mine lately, but am living to regret it so far).
Originally Posted by insider7
What I'm saying is I can't understand why Apple has to be so secretive about what they are doing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
There were many portable players before the iPod, there were cell phones before the iPhone, there were tablet computers before the iPad.
That's meaningless. They all sucked. Know why they all sucked? Because Apple didn't give them a head start. NOTHING like what Apple releases existed before they released it, and that's partially because Apple didn't give anyone a heads up that they were about to release them.
Telling people about a product before release lets competitors make said product and steal sales.
What Apple does is make things better than anyone else. So unless they have some brand new product that no one ever imagined…
Like a music player with a wheel, a smartphone without a keyboard, and a tablet without a desktop OS, you mean?
Originally Posted by insider7
I guess my bottom line is that Apple's management should do and say SOMETHING more to reassure investors when the company is losing so much market value. It seems to me that they see their stockholders with very little regard.
"We have more actual cash than most countries. We make higher profits YoY every year. We sell more product YoY every year. Keep whining and we'll go private."
You're right that they don't care much about their shareholders. It's because they don't need them as anything but customers (and even then, not at all).
Imagine if Apple announced the iPad 6-9 months in advance. Google wouldn't have been scrambling to release Android 3.0. And maybe they would have a competent tablet OS for cheap tablets and steal Apple's thunder. Or the critics would have had 6-9 months to crap on the iPad, driving customer interest down and setting the iPad as a failure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
That's meaningless. They all sucked. Know why they all sucked? Because Apple didn't give them a head start. NOTHING like what Apple releases existed before they released it, and that's partially because Apple didn't give anyone a heads up that they were about to release them.
Telling people about a product before release lets competitors make said product and steal sales.
Like a music player with a wheel, a smartphone without a keyboard, and a tablet without a desktop OS, you mean?
"We have more actual cash than most countries. We make higher profits YoY every year. We sell more product YoY every year. Keep whining and we'll go private."
You're right that they don't care much about their shareholders. It's because they don't need them as anything but customers (and even then, not at all).
Let me paraphrase your first paragraph:
"There is no lord but Apple, and Steve Jobs is its prophet"
As for your last paragraph, you have just explained why people are busy dumping their stock. Nice work.