Apple has already used 100's of millions of retina displays, it would probably cost them more to bring in a new, separate line of lower resolution screens.
Economics 101.
Not going to happen.
Rubbish. Firstly Economics 101 tells us nothing specific about Asian supply chains. If retina is cheaper then why is the mini non-retina?
Quote:
Originally Posted by quest01
I don't believe they will release a non retina iphone, I just don't see it happening. Maybe a cheaper iphone made out of plastic makes sense for emerging markets even though I disagree with Apple coming out with a cheaper product to appeal to certain markets.
The issue isn't you. You are an already captured market. You don't matter that much, and I doubt you are going to abandon the platform because some of the people who also have iPhones are poorer. If so, where would you go? Definitely not Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan R
I suppose anything is possible with a Steve Jobs-less Apple (didn't think the iPad Mini would happen) but these rumors of a cheaper iPhone are absolutely ridiculous....especially this one. Last I checked, the iPhone 4 is being offered for ZERO ($0) DOLLARS with contract ($449 unlocked) and it has a glass/aluminum casing AND a retina display. How much cheaper can you get than $0?....for something that's already better than what's being described by this "analyst".
Hahaha. I knew I would be in before this comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkBlade
Pat, can I buy a vowel.... oh wait, wrong game show. This is the Rumor Game Show, where everyone throws words into a ring and makes stuff up... Or is it words on Post-It notes on a wall, and they throw metal tipped darts at them to make a sentence.
Serious - I read, and then laugh, and then wait for actual OFFICIAL word from Apple on their products. When it is announced, then I decide to buy or not and then plan accordingly. Maybe jaded, but I for one am sick of the the sky is falling stick. When I see the stuff myself, then I will duck for cover.
You might be best not to visit Apple rumor sites. I think there are other sites on the inter web.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Free WITH CONTRACT. In the emerging markets people apparently mostly go prepaid.
You don't say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's an even worse idea.
Incorrect.
NO. Don't get mired in that fog; don't get dragged down with these devils. Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING. ANALYSTS have MANIFESTED this BELIEF that Apple MUST cater to a market that DOESN'T exist.
Never forget that. We DON'T know. We includes analysts.
Many of these people struggle to buy food. Still more only have very, very simple lifestyles, able to afford the barest of necessities (but all of them). They are NOT BUYING CELL PHONES WITH DATA PLANS.
All plausibility aside, that is the only number I've considered. But it's not being sold to "China and India" at that price.
You have no clue what is going on in the world. The developing world - once a polite misnomer for poor - is now the fact. Its developing, we're not. Most people in the (once 3rd now) developing world can afford moderately priced mobile phones on PAYG. We know this because they are buying phones. Even sub-Saharan Africa has a high rate of phone ownership but is much poorer than China. I recommend the TED talks of Hans Rosling for an explanation of the stellar growth of the developing world.
Since Apple sells not just hardware but software services it makes sense to enter this market now - the 20 year old chinese guy who can just afford a $250 iPhone now will get the top of the range in a decade, and in the meantime buy content.
Rogifan....No one is sayng make a "cheap" phone...I'm sure any phone they make will be of good quality, but it doesn't need to be a top of the line phone either. Apple could make an "entry level" phone that doesn't have all the bells and whistles in it, but is still well made and designed for particular markets like China or India. These markets right now are mostly closed to Apple because the people in these markets cannot afford a $600 phone and the carriers do not subsidize them enough to make up the difference. Remember, we are talking about countries where middle class workers might make $8k-$10k a year. Perhaps Apple could redesign the iPhone 3G with a slightly larger screen...to make it work in these countries...that wouldn't be so bad, would it? A $300 phone would allow Apple entry into these markets in a big time way. They don't even need to sell them outside of the emerging markets if they don't want to. And even with a $300 "entry level" phone, there is still plenty of margin room for Apple to make a nice profit! It's a win win for everyone!
Ok if all this is true why has it taken 6 years for Apple to figure it out? How does this not look like anything more than reactionary? Or Apple totally underestimating Android? I dunno I still have a feeling Apple will do something we're not expecting. Look what they did with the iPad mini. The build quality is not cheap (in fact some say its one of Apple's best designs ever) and its not $199.
I don't believe they will release a non retina iphone, I just don't see it happening. Maybe a cheaper iphone made out of plastic makes sense for emerging markets even though I disagree with Apple coming out with a cheaper product to appeal to certain markets.
The only reason I could see for a non retina phone would be to make it look cheap so people will still buy the higher end models. I'm not sure that fits Apple's business model though.
NO. Don't get mired in that fog; don't get dragged down with these devils. Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING. ANALYSTS have MANIFESTED this BELIEF that Apple MUST cater to a market that DOESN'T exist.
Never forget that. We DON'T know. We includes analysts.
Interesting. In the sentences above you emphatically declare that "Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING." and then declare that we don't know. Which is it?
Of course it is true that none of really knows what Apple is doing (though you have declared that you do above.) But reasonably intelligent people can make educated guesses about what they are doing.
Guessing that Apple is "considering" or "looking into" (or whatever you want to say) something like lower-cost options for the iPhone doesn't seem like very much of a stretch at all.
If someone were to say that "Apple is considering making kitchen blenders" or "looking into the shoe business" or other such things...well...yes I suppose those might be possible and we don't really know...but they are far more outside the bounds of expected reality. Whereas "considering" lower cost options for a current product line is not at all outside the bounds of expected reality.
Rubbish. Firstly Economics 101 tells us nothing specific about Asian supply chains. If retina is cheaper then why is the mini non-retina?
AniPad retina display (264 ppi) would give the iPad mini a non standard 1420x1064 display.
In order for the mini to have a standard display it would have to be equivalent to iPhone retina display (336 ppi), giving the mini a standard 2048x1536 display. I don't believe there is much cost difference in iphone size displays but it will take a while (perhaps the next iteration?) before a mini size retina display is economic. Conclusion Economic 101 does explain the non retina mini. Econ 101 would also indicate that Apple would use a retina display even in a cheaper iphone. Marketing 101 might tell something different though.
I'm sorry but a non-retina phone in a plastic casing will be perceived as cheap.
By some perhaps. Maybe by you. Of course it wasn't when it was called the iPhone 3GS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
What helped the mini keep that premium feel while not having retina is the glass and aluminum and chamfered edge detailing. Maybe Apple can find a way to make this low cost phone look and feel premium. If they do no doubt prople outside of China and India will want it.
Maybe they will. Since this is all totally conjecture and guessing...we can "maybe they will" all day. I trust that Apple understands the market, the things they have to work with and their brand better than most of us and will proceed accordingly. Of course that doesn't mean they can't make mistakes. They do all the time. But I would not assume that a non-retina phone with a plastic case would be, ipso facto, a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
But if these rumors pan out and we get a 3GS type phone for China I think the question many will have is WTF took you so long? If that's all you're doing why did it take you 6 years to figure it out? And the media will spin it as a reactionary move; Apple being on defense.
And possibly that wouldn't be "spin" but truth and reality. Maybe this was an aspect of the market development that Apple was blind to (as many in the forum seem to be) or that changed more quickly than they expected. Or developed in ways they didn't expect. They aren't perfect nor seers.
Ok if all this is true why has it taken 6 years for Apple to figure it out? How does this not look like anything more than reactionary? Or Apple totally underestimating Android?
Who knows. Things sometimes change in ways you don't expect. Maybe it is reactionary. Maybe they did underestimate Android or simply misjudged the market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I dunno I still have a feeling Apple will do something we're not expecting. Look what they did with the iPad mini. The build quality is not cheap (in fact some say its one of Apple's best designs ever) and its not $199.
Not sure what is terribly unexpected about iPad mini. It's smaller. It goes back to non-retina display (as is being speculated here for the phone)...it was more expensive that some hoped or expected. But nothing terribly "unexpected" here.
NO. Don't get mired in that fog; don't get dragged down with these devils. Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING. ANALYSTS have MANIFESTED this BELIEF that Apple MUST cater to a market that DOESN'T exist.
Why do you think the market doesn't exist? I think you might be right. If I were poor and trying to get ahead in the world, the last thing I would buy would be a flashy cellphone, and yet when I visit South East Asia they seem to have the same top of the line models as people on the streets of New York or London. So it's all very confusing as to whether a cheaper iPhone is really wanted or not.
Analysts don't read Apple Dev news; they go by gut feeling. Doesn't matter if its decayed or not.
Really? All of them do that? None of them read Apple sites, articles, etc.? None of them are spending time investigating suppliers and partners and looking for clues? None of them are looking at the market as a whole and trying to anticipate how Apple (and other companies) will react to based on their previous actions?
Interesting. In the sentences above you emphatically declare that "Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING." and then declare that we don't know. Which is it?
See, you know exactly what I'm saying, though.
Originally Posted by MJ1970
Really? All of them do that? None of them read Apple sites, articles, etc.? None of them are spending time investigating suppliers and partners and looking for clues? None of them are looking at the market as a whole and trying to anticipate how Apple (and other companies) will react to based on their previous actions?
Given just how wrong 90% of analysts are, I'd say that yes, none of them actually care about the topic on which they're reporting enough to actually have a presence in the community.
Unless you were being ironic, I don't. Are you declaring what Apple is or isn't doing to be ironic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Given just how wrong 90% of analysts are, I'd say that yes, none of them actually care about the topic on which they're reporting enough to actually have a presence in the community.
Which "community" are you speaking of? Some place like AI?
Analysts don't read Apple Dev news; they go by gut feeling. Doesn't matter if its decayed or not.
Really? All of them do that? None of them read Apple sites, articles, etc.? None of them are spending time investigating suppliers and partners and looking for clues? None of them are looking at the market as a whole and trying to anticipate how Apple (and other companies) will react to based on their previous actions?
"Starting May 1, new apps and app updates submitted to the App Store must be built for iOS devices with Retina display and iPhone apps must also support the 4-inch display on iPhone 5."
Only for new apps. So if the analyst is thinking they're going to release a non retina display, that could be true, but I cannot imagine Apple releasing a product that is only backward compatible. That is so stupid its not even Microsoft's strategy.
"Starting May 1, new apps and app updates submitted to the App Store must be built for iOS devices with Retina display and iPhone apps must also support the 4-inch display on iPhone 5."
Only for new apps. So if the analyst is thinking they're going to release a non retina display, that could be true, but I cannot imagine Apple releasing a product that is only backward compatible. That is so stupid its not even Microsoft's strategy.
Me-thinks you're making an assumption (possibly an incorrect one) here about what that statement means. That doesn't sound to me like ONLY support retina displays.
Who knows. Things sometimes change in ways you don't expect. Maybe it is reactionary. Maybe they did underestimate Android or simply misjudged the market.
Not sure what is terribly unexpected about iPad mini. It's smaller. It goes back to non-retina display (as is being speculated here for the phone)...it was more expensive that some hoped or expected. But nothing terribly "unexpected" here.
I was referring more to Wall Street. I think they were expecting something cheaper than $329.
I was referring more to Wall Street. I think they were expecting something cheaper than $329.
If Amazon and Google can do a 7" 16:9 tablet for $200 than Apple can do one with 40% more display area for the same price. Of course, I doubt they realized that the display was considerably larger, while being lighter, thinner, and better well made.
Ya know, even Ferrari has a lower priced model. It's called the California (hmm...) and I understand you can get it for less than $200,000.00. A real bargain. I don't think it has a retina display either.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Economies of scale.
Apple has already used 100's of millions of retina displays, it would probably cost them more to bring in a new, separate line of lower resolution screens.
Economics 101.
Not going to happen.
Rubbish. Firstly Economics 101 tells us nothing specific about Asian supply chains. If retina is cheaper then why is the mini non-retina?
Quote:
Originally Posted by quest01
I don't believe they will release a non retina iphone, I just don't see it happening. Maybe a cheaper iphone made out of plastic makes sense for emerging markets even though I disagree with Apple coming out with a cheaper product to appeal to certain markets.
The issue isn't you. You are an already captured market. You don't matter that much, and I doubt you are going to abandon the platform because some of the people who also have iPhones are poorer. If so, where would you go? Definitely not Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan R
I suppose anything is possible with a Steve Jobs-less Apple (didn't think the iPad Mini would happen) but these rumors of a cheaper iPhone are absolutely ridiculous....especially this one. Last I checked, the iPhone 4 is being offered for ZERO ($0) DOLLARS with contract ($449 unlocked) and it has a glass/aluminum casing AND a retina display. How much cheaper can you get than $0?....for something that's already better than what's being described by this "analyst".
Hahaha. I knew I would be in before this comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkBlade
Pat, can I buy a vowel.... oh wait, wrong game show. This is the Rumor Game Show, where everyone throws words into a ring and makes stuff up...
Serious - I read, and then laugh, and then wait for actual OFFICIAL word from Apple on their products. When it is announced, then I decide to buy or not and then plan accordingly. Maybe jaded, but I for one am sick of the the sky is falling stick. When I see the stuff myself, then I will duck for cover.
You might be best not to visit Apple rumor sites. I think there are other sites on the inter web.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Free WITH CONTRACT. In the emerging markets people apparently mostly go prepaid.
You don't say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's an even worse idea.
Incorrect.
NO. Don't get mired in that fog; don't get dragged down with these devils. Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING. ANALYSTS have MANIFESTED this BELIEF that Apple MUST cater to a market that DOESN'T exist.
Never forget that. We DON'T know. We includes analysts.
Many of these people struggle to buy food. Still more only have very, very simple lifestyles, able to afford the barest of necessities (but all of them). They are NOT BUYING CELL PHONES WITH DATA PLANS.
All plausibility aside, that is the only number I've considered. But it's not being sold to "China and India" at that price.
You have no clue what is going on in the world. The developing world - once a polite misnomer for poor - is now the fact. Its developing, we're not. Most people in the (once 3rd now) developing world can afford moderately priced mobile phones on PAYG. We know this because they are buying phones. Even sub-Saharan Africa has a high rate of phone ownership but is much poorer than China. I recommend the TED talks of Hans Rosling for an explanation of the stellar growth of the developing world.
Since Apple sells not just hardware but software services it makes sense to enter this market now - the 20 year old chinese guy who can just afford a $250 iPhone now will get the top of the range in a decade, and in the meantime buy content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordon Eagan
Rogifan....No one is sayng make a "cheap" phone...I'm sure any phone they make will be of good quality, but it doesn't need to be a top of the line phone either. Apple could make an "entry level" phone that doesn't have all the bells and whistles in it, but is still well made and designed for particular markets like China or India. These markets right now are mostly closed to Apple because the people in these markets cannot afford a $600 phone and the carriers do not subsidize them enough to make up the difference. Remember, we are talking about countries where middle class workers might make $8k-$10k a year. Perhaps Apple could redesign the iPhone 3G with a slightly larger screen...to make it work in these countries...that wouldn't be so bad, would it? A $300 phone would allow Apple entry into these markets in a big time way. They don't even need to sell them outside of the emerging markets if they don't want to. And even with a $300 "entry level" phone, there is still plenty of margin room for Apple to make a nice profit! It's a win win for everyone!
Ok if all this is true why has it taken 6 years for Apple to figure it out? How does this not look like anything more than reactionary? Or Apple totally underestimating Android? I dunno I still have a feeling Apple will do something we're not expecting. Look what they did with the iPad mini. The build quality is not cheap (in fact some say its one of Apple's best designs ever) and its not $199.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quest01
I don't believe they will release a non retina iphone, I just don't see it happening. Maybe a cheaper iphone made out of plastic makes sense for emerging markets even though I disagree with Apple coming out with a cheaper product to appeal to certain markets.
The only reason I could see for a non retina phone would be to make it look cheap so people will still buy the higher end models. I'm not sure that fits Apple's business model though.
The only way I could see this happening is if the phone is dirt cheap and has a pay-as-you-go service attached to it from the service provider.
...could happen, I guess....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
NO. Don't get mired in that fog; don't get dragged down with these devils. Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING. ANALYSTS have MANIFESTED this BELIEF that Apple MUST cater to a market that DOESN'T exist.
Never forget that. We DON'T know. We includes analysts.
Interesting. In the sentences above you emphatically declare that "Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING." and then declare that we don't know. Which is it?
Of course it is true that none of really knows what Apple is doing (though you have declared that you do above.) But reasonably intelligent people can make educated guesses about what they are doing.
Guessing that Apple is "considering" or "looking into" (or whatever you want to say) something like lower-cost options for the iPhone doesn't seem like very much of a stretch at all.
If someone were to say that "Apple is considering making kitchen blenders" or "looking into the shoe business" or other such things...well...yes I suppose those might be possible and we don't really know...but they are far more outside the bounds of expected reality. Whereas "considering" lower cost options for a current product line is not at all outside the bounds of expected reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Rubbish. Firstly Economics 101 tells us nothing specific about Asian supply chains. If retina is cheaper then why is the mini non-retina?
AniPad retina display (264 ppi) would give the iPad mini a non standard 1420x1064 display.
In order for the mini to have a standard display it would have to be equivalent to iPhone retina display (336 ppi), giving the mini a standard 2048x1536 display. I don't believe there is much cost difference in iphone size displays but it will take a while (perhaps the next iteration?) before a mini size retina display is economic. Conclusion Economic 101 does explain the non retina mini. Econ 101 would also indicate that Apple would use a retina display even in a cheaper iphone. Marketing 101 might tell something different though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I'm sorry but a non-retina phone in a plastic casing will be perceived as cheap.
By some perhaps. Maybe by you. Of course it wasn't when it was called the iPhone 3GS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
What helped the mini keep that premium feel while not having retina is the glass and aluminum and chamfered edge detailing. Maybe Apple can find a way to make this low cost phone look and feel premium. If they do no doubt prople outside of China and India will want it.
Maybe they will. Since this is all totally conjecture and guessing...we can "maybe they will" all day. I trust that Apple understands the market, the things they have to work with and their brand better than most of us and will proceed accordingly. Of course that doesn't mean they can't make mistakes. They do all the time. But I would not assume that a non-retina phone with a plastic case would be, ipso facto, a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
But if these rumors pan out and we get a 3GS type phone for China I think the question many will have is WTF took you so long? If that's all you're doing why did it take you 6 years to figure it out? And the media will spin it as a reactionary move; Apple being on defense.
And possibly that wouldn't be "spin" but truth and reality. Maybe this was an aspect of the market development that Apple was blind to (as many in the forum seem to be) or that changed more quickly than they expected. Or developed in ways they didn't expect. They aren't perfect nor seers.
Analysts don't read Apple Dev news; they go by gut feeling. Doesn't matter if its decayed or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Ok if all this is true why has it taken 6 years for Apple to figure it out? How does this not look like anything more than reactionary? Or Apple totally underestimating Android?
Who knows. Things sometimes change in ways you don't expect. Maybe it is reactionary. Maybe they did underestimate Android or simply misjudged the market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
I dunno I still have a feeling Apple will do something we're not expecting. Look what they did with the iPad mini. The build quality is not cheap (in fact some say its one of Apple's best designs ever) and its not $199.
Not sure what is terribly unexpected about iPad mini. It's smaller. It goes back to non-retina display (as is being speculated here for the phone)...it was more expensive that some hoped or expected. But nothing terribly "unexpected" here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
NO. Don't get mired in that fog; don't get dragged down with these devils. Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING. ANALYSTS have MANIFESTED this BELIEF that Apple MUST cater to a market that DOESN'T exist.
Why do you think the market doesn't exist? I think you might be right. If I were poor and trying to get ahead in the world, the last thing I would buy would be a flashy cellphone, and yet when I visit South East Asia they seem to have the same top of the line models as people on the streets of New York or London. So it's all very confusing as to whether a cheaper iPhone is really wanted or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
Analysts don't read Apple Dev news; they go by gut feeling. Doesn't matter if its decayed or not.
Really? All of them do that? None of them read Apple sites, articles, etc.? None of them are spending time investigating suppliers and partners and looking for clues? None of them are looking at the market as a whole and trying to anticipate how Apple (and other companies) will react to based on their previous actions?
Originally Posted by MJ1970
Interesting. In the sentences above you emphatically declare that "Apple is NOT considering ANYTHING. Apple is doing NOTHING." and then declare that we don't know. Which is it?
See, you know exactly what I'm saying, though.
Originally Posted by MJ1970
Really? All of them do that? None of them read Apple sites, articles, etc.? None of them are spending time investigating suppliers and partners and looking for clues? None of them are looking at the market as a whole and trying to anticipate how Apple (and other companies) will react to based on their previous actions?
Given just how wrong 90% of analysts are, I'd say that yes, none of them actually care about the topic on which they're reporting enough to actually have a presence in the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
See, you know exactly what I'm saying, though.
Unless you were being ironic, I don't. Are you declaring what Apple is or isn't doing to be ironic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Given just how wrong 90% of analysts are, I'd say that yes, none of them actually care about the topic on which they're reporting enough to actually have a presence in the community.
Which "community" are you speaking of? Some place like AI?
If they would read Apple Dev news; they should've read this:
https://developer.apple.com/news/
"Starting May 1, new apps and app updates submitted to the App Store must be built for iOS devices with Retina display and iPhone apps must also support the 4-inch display on iPhone 5."
Only for new apps. So if the analyst is thinking they're going to release a non retina display, that could be true, but I cannot imagine Apple releasing a product that is only backward compatible. That is so stupid its not even Microsoft's strategy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
If they would read Apple Dev news; they should've read this:
https://developer.apple.com/news/
"Starting May 1, new apps and app updates submitted to the App Store must be built for iOS devices with Retina display and iPhone apps must also support the 4-inch display on iPhone 5."
Only for new apps. So if the analyst is thinking they're going to release a non retina display, that could be true, but I cannot imagine Apple releasing a product that is only backward compatible. That is so stupid its not even Microsoft's strategy.
Me-thinks you're making an assumption (possibly an incorrect one) here about what that statement means. That doesn't sound to me like ONLY support retina displays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970
Who knows. Things sometimes change in ways you don't expect. Maybe it is reactionary. Maybe they did underestimate Android or simply misjudged the market.
Not sure what is terribly unexpected about iPad mini. It's smaller. It goes back to non-retina display (as is being speculated here for the phone)...it was more expensive that some hoped or expected. But nothing terribly "unexpected" here.
I was referring more to Wall Street. I think they were expecting something cheaper than $329.
If Amazon and Google can do a 7" 16:9 tablet for $200 than Apple can do one with 40% more display area for the same price. Of course, I doubt they realized that the display was considerably larger, while being lighter, thinner, and better well made.
Ya know, even Ferrari has a lower priced model. It's called the California (hmm...) and I understand you can get it for less than $200,000.00. A real bargain. I don't think it has a retina display either.
People love choices. If Apple were to make a lower end iPhone I'm sure people would gobble them up.