Ummm..... do you have a point you're trying to make here? You just defined "actual sales" for Apple, since the carrier has to "eat the cost". Not shipments. (Btw, do you see a lot of "buy one get one free deals" on the iPhone where you live? On which carrier? When?).
I've never seen a "buy one get one free deal" for anyphone where I live, you maybe exaggerating their existance.
You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was telling the poster that if Apple was putting 'quota' pressure on carriers (as he claimed) who, in turn, were having trouble meeting their numbers, then we should see a lot of iPhone giveaways (either in 'BOGO' type deals or something close). In turn, the fact we don't see such deals suggests that the issue the poster complaining about was likely moot.
If facetime, retina display, siri... The list goes on mean nothing to you then enjoy your physical keyboard
There is another list of features that are not present on the iPhone. A filemanager, one that is capable of mounting your work and home file servers. DLNA, NFC, true multitasking (doesn't pause your apps in the background hence 2GB ram, higher resolution and DPI, a very intuitive and fresh new UI, removable battery, SD card, designated mini HDMI port with 1080p, able to turn the phone into a wireless storage device that any OS can access, can also plug in a external HD or USB storage into micro USB with adapter, free development kit, Blackberry Messenger, a fantastic notification system, fastest browser, better media codec support, etc. The BB store is on the bare side yes however all of the major apps are available and the phone supports Android apps. You make it sound like a person is sacrificing so much by using the Z10, it's a really good business phone that will make a lot of people happy. In fact I would dare say your gaining a whole lot.
A file manager… …DLNA… …NFC…, true multitasking… …removable battery, SD card, mini HDMI , …a wireless storage device… …a external HD or USB storage… …micro USB… …Blackberry Messenger, a fantastic notification system…
None of this stuff matters to regular people. It's not what they look for when they buy devices.
It's also hilarious that you have to lie about "features" to fill out your list. Half of this stuff is just plain useless, the other half is ludicrous.
Come on, (wo)man. Also,
…free development kit…
Shut up with your FUD, okay? There's no one that doesn't know Xcode is free.
You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was telling the poster that if Apple was putting 'quota' pressure on carriers (as he claimed) who, in turn, were having trouble meeting their numbers, then we should see a lot of iPhone giveaways (either in 'BOGO' type deals or something close). In turn, the fact we don't see such deals suggests that the issue the poster complaining about was likely moot.
If you look deep into the SEC filings, Apple's sales is shipment.
What you are talking about is only the "minimum yearly sales" that the carrier has to eat losses if they can't sell them --- only the minimum yearly unit is guaranteed sales, everything above that amount is not guaranteed. So sales is shipment.
Way to go RIM! I'm sure the carriers will sell their inventory. The two largest Swiss mobile providers Swisscom and Orange now have a waiting list to get the Z10 as they have sold out. I went by Orange today because they have been pressuring me into giving up my grandfathered unlimited data , they offered me a early contract renewal and 200 towards a new phone. So I pulled the trigger, my new Z10 comes Tuesday. I was a little worried about RIM's app market as it's a little on the bare side. However after some research they had all of the essential apps that I was looking for Plus the most important one that I absolutely cannot live without. The ability to mount my company's and home fileserver's as folders within the filemanager. The biggest reason why I always went with Android over iOS in the past. The Z10 can also be used as a wireless server itself, I can even setup a media server that allows for multiple users to stream video. Great for when we take the kids on vacation or weekend getaways, in stead of bringing a bunch of DVD's and a player along I just rip the media using DIVX and they can view their movies on tablets as well as connect to Hotspot.
I really tossed and turned over this decision, with so many great phones out now like the new HTC M7, Sony Xperia Z or Nokia 920 it wasn't easy. I wanted a change of venue anyway so I don't think I will be disappointed. Android although a very capable mobile OS was starting to look dated to me. BB10 brings with it a new, exciting, well thought out and extremely quick interface. The gestures take a little getting used to but once mastered makes the workflow seem light years ahead of Android. Plus the notification system is the best there is. If anyone's interested I can post a real review next week.
None of this stuff matters to regular people. It's not what they look for when they buy devices.
It's also hilarious that you have to lie about "features" to fill out your list. Half of this stuff is just plain useless, the other half is ludicrous.
Come on, (wo)man. Also,
Shut up with your FUD, okay? There's no one that doesn't know Xcode is free.
Which feature did I lie about and I will take it off of the list. I was referring to the 300 dollars a year iOS developer program for Enterprise. Yes we all know Xcode is free but to submit your apps you need a subscription. I'll be clearer in the future. Every feature I listed is something I look for, I can care less about the normal user, their needs are already provided for with the iPhone.
You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was telling the poster that if Apple was putting 'quota' pressure on carriers (as he claimed) who, in turn, were having trouble meeting their numbers, then we should see a lot of iPhone giveaways (either in 'BOGO' type deals or something close). In turn, the fact we don't see such deals suggests that the issue the poster complaining about was likely moot.
There has been numerous "articles" on this site stating that Apple contracts dictate how many phones the carriers must purchase in the timeframe, so they aren't claiming it. The reason they aren't "giving them away" maybe due to the price they are paying for them. But in saying that, iPhones are "given away" on contract quite a bit.
If you look deep into the SEC filings, Apple's sales is shipment.
What you are talking about is only the "minimum yearly sales" that the carrier has to eat losses if they can't sell them --- only the minimum yearly unit is guaranteed sales, everything above that amount is not guaranteed. So sales is shipment.
You have absolutely no clue, if you can't, based on Apple's "shipment" data, and the subsequent "weeks of channel inventory" numbers -- that are always provided in the quarterly conference calls -- come up with a precise number for Apple's actual sales.
Unless you don't know how to add and subtract, that is.
The reason they aren't "giving them away" maybe due to the price they are paying for them. But in saying that, iPhones are "given away" on contract quite a bit.
This makes no sense. If they can't sell them, are they better off keeping it on their shelves, or making a profit off the monthly contract the next X years (which would only be possible only if they took it off their shelves and got it into the customers' hands)?
The point is not really that they would give them away for $0, but they would be providing all sorts of sweeteners to getting it out into the customers' hands, which they don't seem to be doing. No bark, no bite; that's all I am saying.
I think you've completely missed the point of my post.
You have absolutely no clue, if you can't, based on Apple's "shipment" data, and the subsequent "weeks of channel inventory" numbers -- that are always provided in the quarterly conference calls -- come up with a precise number for Apple's actual sales.
Unless you don't know how to add and subtract, that is.
I know that I can figure it out the numbers, but that's not my point. My point is that people didn't figure it out and only rely on the press release numbers, and the press release numbers are shipment numbers based on the definitions in Apple's SEC filings.
RIM yesterday said that they "sold/ship" 6 million blackberries in their press release. But RIM also said that the actual sell through is 7.9 million blackberries in the conference call --- i.e. their existing channel inventory went down almost by 2 million units. It has been this way for RIM for the last 3 quarters, the actual sell through is higher than the shipment numbers.
My point is that people didn't figure it out and only rely on the press release numbers, and the press release numbers are shipment numbers based on the definitions in Apple's SEC filings.
And, if you knew how to do the calculation that you say you do, you'll see that Apple's shipment numbers almost exactly match their actual sales numbers. The reason? There's fantastic demand for its products, and they don't sit on the shelves gathering dust. Unlike those of it's competition. (If you think that's not the case with the competition, you could perhaps tell us why they don't report their channel inventory data, and why Blackberry -- they've changed their name, btw -- started to report it only three quarters ago?).
And, if you knew how to do the calculation that you say you do, you'll see that Apple's shipment numbers almost exactly match their actual sales numbers. The reason? There's fantastic demand for its products, and they don't sit on the shelves gathering dust. Unlike those of it's competition. (If you think that's not the case with the competition, you could perhaps tell us why they don't report their channel inventory data, and why Blackberry -- they've changed their name, btw -- started to report it only three quarters ago?).
I never opined on whether Apple's shipment's number is close to their actual sell through numbers or not. I said that Apple's sales number is defined as shipment number by their SEC filings.
You went on a 2 page diatribe about Apple's press release numbers is sales numbers. You could have explained it much simpler and more accurate that Apple's press release is shipment numbers and their shipment numbers are pretty close to their actual sell through numbers.
I never opined on whether Apple's shipment's number is close to their actual sell through numbers or not. I said that Apple's sales number is defined as shipment number by their SEC filings.
You went on a 2 page diatribe about Apple's press release numbers is sales numbers. You could have explained it much simpler and more accurate that Apple's press release is shipment numbers and their shipment numbers are pretty close to their actual sell through numbers.
This issue has been discussed ad nauseam on AI, and the only ones that continue to conflate Apple's reporting with the rest of the industry are Androiders and trolls. If you aren't either, there would be little reason to bring up this tired old canard that Apple's numbers are the similar to those of the others.
This makes no sense. If they can't sell them, are they better off keeping it on their shelves, or making a profit off the monthly contract the next X years (which would only be possible only if they took it off their shelves and got it into the customers' hands)?
The point is not really that they would give them away for $0, but they would be providing all sorts of sweeteners to getting it out into the customers' hands, which they don't seem to be doing. No bark, no bite; that's all I am saying.
I think you've completely missed the point of my post.
This makes no sense. If they can't sell them, are they better off keeping it on their shelves, or making a profit off the monthly contract the next X years (which would only be possible only if they took it off their shelves and got it into the customers' hands)?
The point is not really that they would give them away for $0, but they would be providing all sorts of sweeteners to getting it out into the customers' hands, which they don't seem to be doing. No bark, no bite; that's all I am saying.
I think you've completely missed the point of my post.
Maybe you say your point?
Sure. Apple's phones are selling very well, and the reference to Apple channel stuffing in the EU (based on reports of supposed 'complaints' from a few small carriers) is pure FUD.
This issue has been discussed ad nauseam on AI, and the only ones that continue to conflate Apple's reporting with the rest of the industry are Androiders and trolls. If you aren't either, there would be little reason to bring up this tired old canard that Apple's numbers are the similar to those of the others.
So, why else did you bring it up?
Definition is definition --- that's permanent. Apple is using the same reporting standard as all the other manufacturers which is shipment numbers.
Whether Apple can maintain their supply chain management correctly --- that's not permanent and can change quarter to quarter.
There is little reason to confuse the 2 issues --- especially when Apple is winning. You are making the same mistake as Andy Zaky --- of course he looked like a genius when things were looking well. But the moment the tide turned, as Warren Buffett stated time and again, Zaky looked like a fool swimming without his clothes.
Sure. Apple's phones are selling very well, and the reference to Apple channel stuffing in the EU (based on reports of supposed 'complaints' from a few small carriers) is pure FUD.
Comments
They're not as prevalent as they used to be, but they did and continue to exist.
You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was telling the poster that if Apple was putting 'quota' pressure on carriers (as he claimed) who, in turn, were having trouble meeting their numbers, then we should see a lot of iPhone giveaways (either in 'BOGO' type deals or something close). In turn, the fact we don't see such deals suggests that the issue the poster complaining about was likely moot.
There is another list of features that are not present on the iPhone. A filemanager, one that is capable of mounting your work and home file servers. DLNA, NFC, true multitasking (doesn't pause your apps in the background hence 2GB ram, higher resolution and DPI, a very intuitive and fresh new UI, removable battery, SD card, designated mini HDMI port with 1080p, able to turn the phone into a wireless storage device that any OS can access, can also plug in a external HD or USB storage into micro USB with adapter, free development kit, Blackberry Messenger, a fantastic notification system, fastest browser, better media codec support, etc. The BB store is on the bare side yes however all of the major apps are available and the phone supports Android apps. You make it sound like a person is sacrificing so much by using the Z10, it's a really good business phone that will make a lot of people happy. In fact I would dare say your gaining a whole lot.
Originally Posted by Relic
A file manager… …DLNA… …NFC…, true multitasking… …removable battery, SD card, mini HDMI , …a wireless storage device… …a external HD or USB storage… …micro USB… …Blackberry Messenger, a fantastic notification system…
None of this stuff matters to regular people. It's not what they look for when they buy devices.
It's also hilarious that you have to lie about "features" to fill out your list. Half of this stuff is just plain useless, the other half is ludicrous.
Come on, (wo)man. Also,
…free development kit…
Shut up with your FUD, okay? There's no one that doesn't know Xcode is free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was telling the poster that if Apple was putting 'quota' pressure on carriers (as he claimed) who, in turn, were having trouble meeting their numbers, then we should see a lot of iPhone giveaways (either in 'BOGO' type deals or something close). In turn, the fact we don't see such deals suggests that the issue the poster complaining about was likely moot.
If you look deep into the SEC filings, Apple's sales is shipment.
What you are talking about is only the "minimum yearly sales" that the carrier has to eat losses if they can't sell them --- only the minimum yearly unit is guaranteed sales, everything above that amount is not guaranteed. So sales is shipment.
I really tossed and turned over this decision, with so many great phones out now like the new HTC M7, Sony Xperia Z or Nokia 920 it wasn't easy. I wanted a change of venue anyway so I don't think I will be disappointed. Android although a very capable mobile OS was starting to look dated to me. BB10 brings with it a new, exciting, well thought out and extremely quick interface. The gestures take a little getting used to but once mastered makes the workflow seem light years ahead of Android. Plus the notification system is the best there is. If anyone's interested I can post a real review next week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
None of this stuff matters to regular people. It's not what they look for when they buy devices.
It's also hilarious that you have to lie about "features" to fill out your list. Half of this stuff is just plain useless, the other half is ludicrous.
Come on, (wo)man. Also,
Shut up with your FUD, okay? There's no one that doesn't know Xcode is free.
Which feature did I lie about and I will take it off of the list. I was referring to the 300 dollars a year iOS developer program for Enterprise. Yes we all know Xcode is free but to submit your apps you need a subscription. I'll be clearer in the future. Every feature I listed is something I look for, I can care less about the normal user, their needs are already provided for with the iPhone.
There has been numerous "articles" on this site stating that Apple contracts dictate how many phones the carriers must purchase in the timeframe, so they aren't claiming it. The reason they aren't "giving them away" maybe due to the price they are paying for them. But in saying that, iPhones are "given away" on contract quite a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
If you look deep into the SEC filings, Apple's sales is shipment.
What you are talking about is only the "minimum yearly sales" that the carrier has to eat losses if they can't sell them --- only the minimum yearly unit is guaranteed sales, everything above that amount is not guaranteed. So sales is shipment.
You have absolutely no clue, if you can't, based on Apple's "shipment" data, and the subsequent "weeks of channel inventory" numbers -- that are always provided in the quarterly conference calls -- come up with a precise number for Apple's actual sales.
Unless you don't know how to add and subtract, that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
The reason they aren't "giving them away" maybe due to the price they are paying for them. But in saying that, iPhones are "given away" on contract quite a bit.
This makes no sense. If they can't sell them, are they better off keeping it on their shelves, or making a profit off the monthly contract the next X years (which would only be possible only if they took it off their shelves and got it into the customers' hands)?
The point is not really that they would give them away for $0, but they would be providing all sorts of sweeteners to getting it out into the customers' hands, which they don't seem to be doing. No bark, no bite; that's all I am saying.
I think you've completely missed the point of my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
You have absolutely no clue, if you can't, based on Apple's "shipment" data, and the subsequent "weeks of channel inventory" numbers -- that are always provided in the quarterly conference calls -- come up with a precise number for Apple's actual sales.
Unless you don't know how to add and subtract, that is.
I know that I can figure it out the numbers, but that's not my point. My point is that people didn't figure it out and only rely on the press release numbers, and the press release numbers are shipment numbers based on the definitions in Apple's SEC filings.
RIM yesterday said that they "sold/ship" 6 million blackberries in their press release. But RIM also said that the actual sell through is 7.9 million blackberries in the conference call --- i.e. their existing channel inventory went down almost by 2 million units. It has been this way for RIM for the last 3 quarters, the actual sell through is higher than the shipment numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
My point is that people didn't figure it out and only rely on the press release numbers, and the press release numbers are shipment numbers based on the definitions in Apple's SEC filings.
And, if you knew how to do the calculation that you say you do, you'll see that Apple's shipment numbers almost exactly match their actual sales numbers. The reason? There's fantastic demand for its products, and they don't sit on the shelves gathering dust. Unlike those of it's competition. (If you think that's not the case with the competition, you could perhaps tell us why they don't report their channel inventory data, and why Blackberry -- they've changed their name, btw -- started to report it only three quarters ago?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
And, if you knew how to do the calculation that you say you do, you'll see that Apple's shipment numbers almost exactly match their actual sales numbers. The reason? There's fantastic demand for its products, and they don't sit on the shelves gathering dust. Unlike those of it's competition. (If you think that's not the case with the competition, you could perhaps tell us why they don't report their channel inventory data, and why Blackberry -- they've changed their name, btw -- started to report it only three quarters ago?).
I never opined on whether Apple's shipment's number is close to their actual sell through numbers or not. I said that Apple's sales number is defined as shipment number by their SEC filings.
You went on a 2 page diatribe about Apple's press release numbers is sales numbers. You could have explained it much simpler and more accurate that Apple's press release is shipment numbers and their shipment numbers are pretty close to their actual sell through numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
I never opined on whether Apple's shipment's number is close to their actual sell through numbers or not. I said that Apple's sales number is defined as shipment number by their SEC filings.
You went on a 2 page diatribe about Apple's press release numbers is sales numbers. You could have explained it much simpler and more accurate that Apple's press release is shipment numbers and their shipment numbers are pretty close to their actual sell through numbers.
This issue has been discussed ad nauseam on AI, and the only ones that continue to conflate Apple's reporting with the rest of the industry are Androiders and trolls. If you aren't either, there would be little reason to bring up this tired old canard that Apple's numbers are the similar to those of the others.
So, why else did you bring it up?
Maybe you say your point?
Sure. Apple's phones are selling very well, and the reference to Apple channel stuffing in the EU (based on reports of supposed 'complaints' from a few small carriers) is pure FUD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
This issue has been discussed ad nauseam on AI, and the only ones that continue to conflate Apple's reporting with the rest of the industry are Androiders and trolls. If you aren't either, there would be little reason to bring up this tired old canard that Apple's numbers are the similar to those of the others.
So, why else did you bring it up?
Definition is definition --- that's permanent. Apple is using the same reporting standard as all the other manufacturers which is shipment numbers.
Whether Apple can maintain their supply chain management correctly --- that's not permanent and can change quarter to quarter.
There is little reason to confuse the 2 issues --- especially when Apple is winning. You are making the same mistake as Andy Zaky --- of course he looked like a genius when things were looking well. But the moment the tide turned, as Warren Buffett stated time and again, Zaky looked like a fool swimming without his clothes.
You have proof to backup your claim?