State-owned Chinese film studio sues Apple for $500,000 over App Store downloads

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    Tim Cook should visit India and be accidentally photographed meeting with a few people while smiling profusely.  End of problems in China.

     

     

    First they'd have to build the Infrastructure in India to make that threat.

     

     

    Much better is Tim Cook with a robot and the mayor of Detroit shaking hands and smiling profusely ... but your strategy is very sound.
  • Reply 22 of 58

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post



    Not investing, okthxbye.


     


    That's what someone rational would say. CEOs get obscene bonuses regardless of performance, so they will happily continue tossing money into a corrupt system without considering the costs of trying to compete against a government known for lawless behavior. Western governments are not far behind their corporate overlords with their head in the sand approach to such abuses. You will hear a few squeals about it, but no action will be taken and the Chinese government knows it.


     


    China will continue to have unfettered access to Western markets, Western companies will have only enough temporary access to Chinese markets to bootstrap state owned companies.

  • Reply 23 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

     

    Obviously nothing of the sort. Why should Apple stoop to that slimy level, rather than move their work to other places. And get enforceable bans blocking even private 'import' of Apple products, close the official stores etc.

     

    Seriously? How does Apple -- a foreign company, win a court case where the judge is getting a million Yuan and there aren't part of the good old boy network to begin with?
    I'm a person who has never "stooped to that level" and the world is full of us; we are called; "Broke ass worker drones."

     

    I'm not Bill Gates. He ripped off thousands of other people and sued them for their own IP -- now he's got a foundation, bought some good press, and gives lectures to school kids about innovation and hard work. The number of people who climbed to the top like Bill Gates is many more than the number of people who diligently worked hard and innovated like Steve Wozniak.

     

    Apple is a very rare company -- and I didn't become a fan because they did it the "Old fashioned Microsoft way; by stealing it." However -- they are in a situation that CANNOT BE WON. If you try and fight the corrupt bureaucracy in China, you will be hauled up on charges of sedition -- good luck finding a replacement exec to fly to China with that option looming.

     

    Google helps China spy on it's people -- or they wouldn't be there. Apple will have to bribe the judges or they will have to pay some clone company for their own technology.

     

    They are already being sued by a company that ripped of Siri --
    Siri!I mean, it took decades of the brightest minds to come up with serviceable speech recognition and you think some f-ing hackneyed company in China did it in a couple years?

     

    The gloves are off. China is the most important market for the next decade. Either Apple retreats or they get their hands dirty -- other than covertly extorting or handing some dirt over to Wikileaks that cannot be traced to them; I see no "honest" way of dealing with it.
  • Reply 24 of 58
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Ah but remember Hong Kong is their experiment with capitalism left over from the Brits ... ... Seriously though, is the level of piracy country wide or concentrated there?

    It's rampant throughout the country - not just Hong Kong. In Beijing and Shanghai, you can find entire malls dedicated to knock-off products.

    charlituna wrote: »
    I don't know about in China, but in the US, when you submit something for inclusion there's big statement that by doing so you have ensured you have all proper rights to everything and if you are wrong, Apple is out of that game

    That's my understanding. Apple relies on the developer's statement. If a copyright holder believes that their work has been stolen, they need to notify Apple and Apple will pull the product from its store while investigating.
    charlituna wrote: »
    Before that would have been hard since China won't export the needed rare earth metals. Tactic to force production into the country.

    but a huge cache was just discovered in Japan 

    There is also talk of reopening a large mine in the western US. It's more expensive than buying from China, but a lot more secure. Other than a few items like rare earth magnets, the added cost won't affect the overall economics that much since rare earths are usually a minor component.
  • Reply 25 of 58
    I understand China is a huge market. You don't just pull out because in reality you need them more than they need you. But at some point if they can't give you a straight answer as to why this propaganda campaign is going on, you do have to push back a little. Perhaps let it leak that you are looking moving some of your manufacturing business from the Foxconn factory in China to the one in Brazil. Or that you are looking into building a new factory in Thailand or Laos or some place like that.

    I mean, settle this peacefully and make happy whomever you need to make happy...if you can. But you can't just take it forever. Use whatever leverage you have.
  • Reply 26 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

     

    That's what someone rational would say. CEOs get obscene bonuses regardless of performance, so they will happily continue tossing money into a corrupt system without considering the costs of trying to compete against a government known for lawless behavior. Western governments are not far behind their corporate overlords with their head in the sand approach to such abuses. You will hear a few squeals about it, but no action will be taken and the Chinese government knows it.

     

    China will continue to have unfettered access to Western markets, Western companies will have only enough temporary access to Chinese markets to bootstrap state owned companies.

     

    Dude -- you and I are so thinking the same. Yes, the US is only a little behind China in the corruption department. The Status Quo of huge banks hand picking their own regulations and regulators is absolutely doomed to catastrophic failure. It's only a question of; who's going to see that social collapse first: China or the US?

     

    There are so many colliding trains in the coming future it's impossible to say if a serious revolution doesn't erupt; despite all the internal spying, social engineering, food additive inebriation, and propaganda -- something has to give.

     

    Now the controversial point I'd like to add is; Society and our forms of government are NOT up to the task. Capitalism and Communism are both irreconcilable with a sustainable future. We have to collectively manage resources and a wage-slave exploitation, where the plantation became and overseas sweatshop CANNOT WORK in the long run. The Big socio-economic brick wall is the emergence of artificial intelligence controlled robots. Eventually they will be better and cheaper than cheap labor -- so what do you do with Capitalists who want more markets and more people to need stuff or build stuff for ever lower wages?

     

    The people who became rich exploiting the resources and replacing good food with franken food will be able to afford to buy the best AI's and have clean air and food for themselves. AT this point the bubble becomes a self-reinforcing nightmare.

     

    The dystopian nightmare is the corrupt and wealthy owning the artificial intelligences that no humans can compete with. "working harder and eating less" just isn't an option for the teaming masses and the Catholic church still hasn't joined the 20th Century in promoting birth control.

     

    China will probably be the first place we see the collision of New Tech with Old, Bad Habits.

     

    Yeah, I know, this is science fiction -- but it's coming. We as a society either share the benefits and risks, and "enhance people", or the Old World Order paradigm of giving the advantages to the only people who can afford them will create Hell on earth.

     

    I realize this is a bit grandiose to rant about when we are talking about some hack movies studio trying to game the system for some payola -- but these are the butterfly breezes that spawn hurricanes. It's the symptom of a corrupt ownership class devouring innovators, while the rest of us are relegated to consumers -- until of course, we aren't even useful as markets or labor.
  • Reply 27 of 58


    This is what happens when you depend on bastards. Get rid off China! 

  • Reply 28 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TitanTiger View Post

    I understand China is a huge market. You don't just pull out because in reality you need them more than they need you. But at some point if they can't give you a straight answer as to why this propaganda campaign is going on, you do have to push back a little. Perhaps let it leak that you are looking moving some of your manufacturing business from the Foxconn factory in China to the one in Brazil. Or that you are looking into building a new factory in Thailand or Laos or some place like that.



    I mean, settle this peacefully and make happy whomever you need to make happy...if you can. But you can't just take it forever. Use whatever leverage you have.

     

    Yes -- you make a point. Being a PARTY to corruption is inevitably corrupting. Apple cannot directly change China -- they can only nudge for higher wages or safer working conditions (which they have been at the forefront of doing, Forbes Inc. yellow journalism to the contrary). They won't be a company we would cheer for if they make this their business model.

     

    In the SHORT TERM, Apple either has to pay huge sums to feed the graft and corruption that will target them for NOT being corrupt -- or they have to pay these stooges to look for another soft target.

     

    LONG TERM; they have to be a big fish in a small pond. Set up a plant in Brazil -- which probably is about as corrupt as the USA but less than Mexico and China. They are more able to push for fairer situations and be sued less. But Apple cannot do this in a big way with the pressures of our crack-addicted Wall Street. It doesn't have honor, or insight, just unquenchable greed.

     

    So Apple cannot truly be a purely noble company -- it is impossible -- our system and China's won't allow it. Wall Street and corrupt systems in China will turn them into road kill in a few years before they could develop the infrastructure in a "bribe free country." And as soon as the patent and copyright trolls get a taste of victory in Chinese courts -- that's just going to be chum in the water for more sharks. This lawsuit today isn't the worst of it -- it's the beginning of the flood if this studio, Samsung, and that Siri-clone company prevail.

     

    Best option in the real world? Apple lawyers up and fights Samsung and patent trolls with every trick in the book -- hopefully winning in NON-Chinese countries and keeping them out of markets -- inevitably, Samsung may realize that there is a pattern here, and NOT screwing over Apple is more profitable than fighting them and both companies losing -- so far however, they made too much money cloning the iPhone and iPad and got slapped on the wrist; no lesson learned. Apple MUST bribe officials and judges in China -- using a third party to do it that keeps them at arms length so that their own corporate culture doesn't become corrupt. MEANWHILE, Apple starts building desktop computers in Detroit (which they are doing) and creates infrastructure a little piece at the time. Maybe in 5 or more years, they might be able to in-source a few components. It's really robots that make this an option, and honestly, the economics and other factors make building the next-gen plants in the US more attractive than yet another third-world country (apologies to Brazil -- they aren't backward or that much behind the US anymore, I'm referring to the socio-economic maturity that few have the language to describe, nor the patience to grok).
  • Reply 29 of 58

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post



    There are a lot of old Microsoft fans who hate Apple now and root for Samsung. Or people who've been convinced by all the media blitz pushed by companies that want to cynically poison the well rather than innovate.


     



    So if Apple gets taken out by a thousand clone companies in China and sued to oblivion by every one of them claiming to have invented first after slapping a different color label on something because we do our manufacturing in China -- who's the great American company that is going to inspire and innovate? We don't make the TV sets, we don't build the computers, it's just a few years until people start getting LINUX distros with better builds from China -- just to have current drivers to work with all the widgets.


     



    It's not that I'm really concerned. China is just too corrupt. Even if the USA is peaking -- they have run out of the "cheap labor and no pollution controls" startup phase. Soon they'll be innovating and producing IP and suddenly wanting to protect it. It's just that their corporate chiefs will do the most expedient thing and sell out the Chinese the way ours did. Are they going to have a bidding war with the judges in all their courts? Won't the public notice when a judge for patent cases becomes a billionaire?


     



    So China will either have to grow up and be fair -- or they will merely promote the most corrupt corporation -- and who do they steal from when they are on top? Innovation will stall or more of it will be shrouded behind a firewall and every product gets tied to a "cloud" as if we even had a use for that -- but really, these "cloud moves" and "software services" are about putting the technology BEHIND a locked door -- so that you are tied to the company synergistically, and the widget in your hand is useless without the secret ingredient.


     



    I'm not quite sure where all this is going -- but there are going to be growing pains. This turf war with Apple is only the start. Once more figure out that they can make more money suing than creating -- and the infrastructure is just getting modernized away from cheap labor and dirty coal, the people are going to want to see some of the benefits from all their years of sacrifice. Costs will rise with expectations, and crooked administrators will start competing with other crooked administrators and fat cat corporate execs. The PRODUCTIVE technology workers will probably not be so naive and willing to slave away for little reward.


     



    The NEXT WAVE I think in China will be an exodus of their more innovative people and groups to set up shop in countries that are less corrupt,... obviously, not Samsung or this state owned film studio; they are perfectly adapted but cannot be too successful because their business model is based on taking the ideas of others.


     



    **** I'm sorry people, I can't get the text editor on this blog to put in a return character -- I've tried HTML code -- is there something I'm missing? *****


     


    Absolutely 100% on target with your analysis.  Nice job.

  • Reply 30 of 58

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chandra69 View Post


    This is what happens when you depend on bastards. Get rid off China! 



    Wow you are pretty rough. Are you underwater in stocks?


     


    Do you think NY is in some third world country? lol


     


    Your BBRY Z10 comment makes me wonder that you are some irritated school kid on a spring break with no vacation :) Your momma will shut off your internet. Watch out!

  • Reply 31 of 58


    $500,000 - although a huge amount to me - is just the equivalent of the money Steve Jobs got by taking bottles back for the deposit to Apple.....It's not even worth paying the lawyers to fight it! I don't know whether there's any merit in this case but it is sinister that it comes on top of the warranty thing and is from a state-owned company. Guess the Communist government don't like successful capitalists - especially when they're from overseas. There's so much money to be made in the huge Chinese market that if Apple continues to garner market share it's worth taking these hits and keeping a positive image.

  • Reply 32 of 58
    john_l_uk wrote: »
    $500,000 - although a huge amount to me - is just the equivalent of the money Steve Jobs got by taking bottles back for the deposit to Apple.....It's not even worth paying the lawyers to fight it! I don't know whether there's any merit in this case but it is sinister that it comes on top of the warranty thing and is from a state-owned company. Guess the Communist government don't like successful capitalists - especially when they're from overseas. There's so much money to be made in the huge Chinese market that if Apple continues to garner market share it's worth taking these hits and keeping a positive image.

    Yes, the amount is negligible, but if they pay then it becomes something that can be pointed at and used in courts as proof of wrong-doing. They need to fight this, and they need to win.
  • Reply 33 of 58
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by john_l_uk View Post


    $500,000 - although a huge amount to me - is just the equivalent of the money Steve Jobs got by taking bottles back for the deposit to Apple.....It's not even worth paying the lawyers to fight it! I don't know whether there's any merit in this case but it is sinister that it comes on top of the warranty thing and is from a state-owned company. Guess the Communist government don't like successful capitalists - especially when they're from overseas. There's so much money to be made in the huge Chinese market that if Apple continues to garner market share it's worth taking these hits and keeping a positive image.



     


    It's not a lot now, no. But more companies will crawl out of the woodwork demanding more and more money.

  • Reply 34 of 58
    jd_in_sbjd_in_sb Posts: 1,600member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    OMG, it's Ballmer!




    OMG, you're right! :)

  • Reply 35 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rayz View Post

     

    It's not a lot now, no. But more companies will crawl out of the woodwork demanding more and more money.

     

    Yes, any blood in the water will bring the sharks.

     

    Apple has to fight for each and every penny that a company wants to extort -- otherwise they become the low hanging fruit. it's not about the $500,000 -- it's about setting a expectations.
  • Reply 36 of 58
    I think China would do well to spend its time dealing with the immense amount of black-market copies of movies, music and device knock-offs. I think this is certainly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
  • Reply 37 of 58
    Apple better diversify more or relocate it's manufacturing to outside China. I'm sure other neighboring countries would be happy to pick up the slack from China. And lol at the Ballmer remark :D
  • Reply 38 of 58
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,543member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post





    Ah but remember Hong Kong is their experiment with capitalism left over from the Brits ... ... Seriously though, is the level of piracy country wide or concentrated there?


    Are you dense? over Asia piracy is everywhere and pervasive, there is no respect for trademarks or copyrights at all. Which is why long term Apple has to have fab in other parts of the world to protect themselves.

  • Reply 39 of 58
    liupingliuping Posts: 34member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post



    Obviously Apple is going to have to revisit that policy of not bribing government officials.


    Unfortunately, it is illegal for a US company to pay bribes, even if it is traditional to do so in the country in question.


     


    It's one of those "sounds good in principle" laws that would be great if it existed and was enforced by all countries. In reality it puts US companies at a disadvantage when trying to do business in Asia.

  • Reply 40 of 58
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member


    With all that China has stolen and illegally copied over the past decades, I'd say that the rest of the world should go ahead and pirate any Chinese made goods for the next few decades, as I believe in fairness.

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