I merely stated the part about my friend as a disclaimer that I do not know these things first hand. Perhaps his characterizations are exaggerated, which might be understandable as he was originally an exiled Chinese citizen who was formerly a prominent university professor in China as was his father. His father was executed during the cultural revolution. My friend's family was finally able to move to the US. I have known him for 15 years.
It's always dangerous to repeat someone else's "experiences". You need to particularly careful when you are painting a broad stroke over the largest population of the world with such experiences.
I am quite certain that somewhere outside the US (heck, in the US), there are those who describe Americans as gun-toting, bigamous, cousin-loving, coke-snorting,religious zealots who believe humans walked on earth at the same time as dinosaurs. That would be many people's experience of Americans. Should that stereotype be perpetuated by civilized, educated folks if related by a close friend or relative?
I am an expert in the Chinese culture (because I've read all of James Clavell's novels. /s), so I'm pretty sure that what comes across as "overly apologetic" to American ears is just the way these things are handled in Asia. I assume that they got some valuable PR advice from China experts before posting this. Going to war with Chinese bureaucrats over this makes no sense. Hopefully this will make the issue go away.
We've seen what happens when Apple tries the other approach of doing the absolute minimum in response to government criticism (see that silly UK court case), so I expect this is the wiser course.
That would be many people's experience of Americans. Should that stereotype be perpetuated by civilized, educated folks if related by a close friend or relative?
Probably not, however my friend was a physics professor and is quite well respected as an author in both in the US and in China. In your US example, that might be the view of a foreigner who has based their beliefs purely on hearsay and propaganda. Completely different situation in my opinion.
Chinese gov't is playing a game here. I can't imagine Apple is the only company violating this bs warranty...to think a country that relies so much on piracy...talking about warranties is just ironic. Apple has to play alone until they have a Plan-B.
Apple has to play alon[g] until they have a Plan-B.
If they don't already have a plan B, they don't have a plan. Plan B probably includes the Brasil factory or even US factories. Diversification is always desirable. The problem with leveraging third world labor is that once the host country realizes that you need them, they try to take advantage of the situation, which leaves you in a constant state moving from one low cost labor county to the next.
The single most dangerous situation with China, from the US perspective, is that our military is completely dependent on their high tech manufacturing and the fact that US corporations have shared their most advanced technology with a potential military adversary. The US security policy regarding South Korea, Japan and Taiwan leaves the US rather vulnerable in my opinion.
Probably not, however my friend was a physics professor and is quite well respected as an author in both in the US and in China. In your US example, that might be the view of a foreigner who has based their beliefs purely on hearsay and propaganda. Completely different situation in my opinion.
I don't care if your friend is Obama, Mandela, Einstein, Feynman, Gandhi, Teresa and Ai Weiwei all rolled into one. If someone utters xenophobic, stereotyping invective, an intelligent, civilized and fair-minded person either rebukes that individual or distances himself from it. To repeat the utterance as gospel and follow up with reaffirmation speaks volumes. Unbelievable.
If someone utters xenophobic, stereotyping invective, an intelligent, civilized and fair-minded person either rebukes that individual or distances himself from it.
Good thing I didn't say anything xenophobic, then.
If they don't already have a plan B, they don't have a plan. Plan B probably includes the Brasil factory or even US factories. Diversification is always desirable. The problem with leveraging third world labor is that once the host country realizes that you need them, they try to take advantage of the situation, which leaves you in a constant state moving from one low cost labor county to the next.
The single most dangerous situation with China, from the US perspective, is that our military is completely dependent on their high tech manufacturing and the fact that US corporations have shared their most advanced technology with a potential military adversary. The US security policy regarding South Korea, Japan and Taiwan leaves the US rather vulnerable in my opinion.
You are a China demonizer. Do you forget Japan attacked Pearl harbor killing thousands of Americans? China has never done so. But many Americans always hate Chinese. The US Congress has passed this notorious Chinese Exclusion Act in the nineteenth century. Please defend this act yourself.
If someone utters xenophobic, stereotyping invective, an intelligent, civilized and fair-minded person either rebukes that individual or distances himself from it.
Sorry I don't get your indignation. It would be no different if I were to comment on the horrible education scores of American youth or the US obesity problem. They are just observations and verifiable data points even though they may broad generalizations.
Probably fear not hate. The US is used to being the strongest super power but China is on track to potentially overtake them in this role. Because China is not a democracy it has a fundamentally different political system than the US and that causes uncertainty. When the Chinese youth start overturning and burning US made cars and US based businesses, as they recently did to Japan, that would be a demonstration of hatred.
Probably fear not hate. The US is used to being the strongest super power but China is on track to potentially overtake them in this role. Because China is not a democracy it has a fundamentally different political system than the US and that causes uncertainty. When the Chinese youth start overturning and burning US made cars and US based businesses, as they recently did to Japan, that would be a demonstration of hatred.
Now you are political. Talking about politics, I have seen more from US politicians interfering in trade with China than vice versa. US politicians also use excuses that can never be proved.
* Point 1 AppleInsider staff gets a "F" for journalism on this article. The translation is incomprehensible. It doesn't help the story--it clouds it.
* Point 2 If the essence of what Tim said is reflected in this article (and forget the translation), namely...
- Improved repair policies for the iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S. - A new "concise and clear" statement on its website regarding repair and warranty policies. - Increased supervision and training of Apple Authorized Service providers. - A new feedback service that makes it easier for customers to contact the company with issues or complaints.
Then I see nothing wrong with that. It's what you and I would expect if we were the customers.
As for all the criticism of Tim's "apologetic tone" ... how can you discern his tone and meaning with a translation like that? And this is, btw, international business--you must respect cultures. What's to gain by not doing so? Do to them as you would have them do to you--whether or not they ever do it. And, to you who think otherwise ... may the bridges you burn behind you, light the way before you.
I see a lot of commenters are perhaps not very familiar with cultural (and political) differences between the US and China.
Giving a little bit of benefit of doubt on the translation, I think that what Cook has done here is perfect.
Some things to consider:
1. China isn't Adobe. It's an authoritarian regime. You cannot win a direct confrontation with them, because the courts are a joke and even if they weren't, it's not like you actually have any rights anyway. If the government there decides it wants to F you, you're F'd.
2. Ancient Art of War. Given the reality of #1, the way to fight China is sneaky and backhanded. You "apologize" in a way that makes you look good and them look bad, and make it very hard for them to point to anything in the apology that makes it clear what you're doing. Succeeding in China is all about being passive aggressive.
3. Acceptance of reality. At the end of the day, Apple may have to accept artificial constraints on how much success the company can have in China. Apple should just use back channels to discretely figure out what exactly the Chinese government wants those constraints to be.
4. Take names, remember for later. While Apple will lose any direct confrontations with the Chinese government in the short run, in the long run Apple has some real advantages (like a lot of money; the affection of Chinese consumers; and the influence over a lot of Chinese workers). Keep track of the individual a-holes in the Chinese government and media doing this, and as opportunities arise, F them over as best you can. Ie, make your own karma.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
That certainly wasn't my intention.
I accept that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I merely stated the part about my friend as a disclaimer that I do not know these things first hand. Perhaps his characterizations are exaggerated, which might be understandable as he was originally an exiled Chinese citizen who was formerly a prominent university professor in China as was his father. His father was executed during the cultural revolution. My friend's family was finally able to move to the US. I have known him for 15 years.
It's always dangerous to repeat someone else's "experiences". You need to particularly careful when you are painting a broad stroke over the largest population of the world with such experiences.
I am quite certain that somewhere outside the US (heck, in the US), there are those who describe Americans as gun-toting, bigamous, cousin-loving, coke-snorting,religious zealots who believe humans walked on earth at the same time as dinosaurs. That would be many people's experience of Americans. Should that stereotype be perpetuated by civilized, educated folks if related by a close friend or relative?
I am an expert in the Chinese culture (because I've read all of James Clavell's novels. /s), so I'm pretty sure that what comes across as "overly apologetic" to American ears is just the way these things are handled in Asia. I assume that they got some valuable PR advice from China experts before posting this. Going to war with Chinese bureaucrats over this makes no sense. Hopefully this will make the issue go away.
We've seen what happens when Apple tries the other approach of doing the absolute minimum in response to government criticism (see that silly UK court case), so I expect this is the wiser course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
That would be many people's experience of Americans. Should that stereotype be perpetuated by civilized, educated folks if related by a close friend or relative?
Probably not, however my friend was a physics professor and is quite well respected as an author in both in the US and in China. In your US example, that might be the view of a foreigner who has based their beliefs purely on hearsay and propaganda. Completely different situation in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techboy
Apple has to play alon[g] until they have a Plan-B.
If they don't already have a plan B, they don't have a plan. Plan B probably includes the Brasil factory or even US factories. Diversification is always desirable. The problem with leveraging third world labor is that once the host country realizes that you need them, they try to take advantage of the situation, which leaves you in a constant state moving from one low cost labor county to the next.
The single most dangerous situation with China, from the US perspective, is that our military is completely dependent on their high tech manufacturing and the fact that US corporations have shared their most advanced technology with a potential military adversary. The US security policy regarding South Korea, Japan and Taiwan leaves the US rather vulnerable in my opinion.
Originally Posted by netrox
It's a sad state of affairs when Americans don't think they owe anyone an apology for any mistakes they make.
No mistake was made. Your argument doesn't even exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by netrox
It's a sad state of affairs when Americans don't think they owe anyone an apology for any mistakes they make.
And it's a sad state of affairs when anybody should be apologizing to somebody who is smearing you, lying and is guilty of libel against you.
When you give in to a lying bully, they will only perceive that as weakness, and they'll continue to come after you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No mistake was made. Your argument doesn't even exist.
Some people here apparently support criminal shakedowns, as long as it's Apple getting shaken down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Probably not, however my friend was a physics professor and is quite well respected as an author in both in the US and in China. In your US example, that might be the view of a foreigner who has based their beliefs purely on hearsay and propaganda. Completely different situation in my opinion.
I don't care if your friend is Obama, Mandela, Einstein, Feynman, Gandhi, Teresa and Ai Weiwei all rolled into one. If someone utters xenophobic, stereotyping invective, an intelligent, civilized and fair-minded person either rebukes that individual or distances himself from it. To repeat the utterance as gospel and follow up with reaffirmation speaks volumes. Unbelievable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
I don't care if your friend is Obama, Mandela, Einstein, Feynman, Gandhi, Teresa and Ai Weiwei all rolled into one.
I'm not going to get into specifics in this thread, but at least half of your list is comprised of not good people.
Originally Posted by ankleskater
If someone utters xenophobic, stereotyping invective, an intelligent, civilized and fair-minded person either rebukes that individual or distances himself from it.
Good thing I didn't say anything xenophobic, then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
If they don't already have a plan B, they don't have a plan. Plan B probably includes the Brasil factory or even US factories. Diversification is always desirable. The problem with leveraging third world labor is that once the host country realizes that you need them, they try to take advantage of the situation, which leaves you in a constant state moving from one low cost labor county to the next.
The single most dangerous situation with China, from the US perspective, is that our military is completely dependent on their high tech manufacturing and the fact that US corporations have shared their most advanced technology with a potential military adversary. The US security policy regarding South Korea, Japan and Taiwan leaves the US rather vulnerable in my opinion.
You are a China demonizer. Do you forget Japan attacked Pearl harbor killing thousands of Americans? China has never done so. But many Americans always hate Chinese. The US Congress has passed this notorious Chinese Exclusion Act in the nineteenth century. Please defend this act yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
And it's a sad state of affairs when anybody should be apologizing to somebody who is smearing you, lying and is guilty of libel against you.
When you give in to a lying bully, they will only perceive that as weakness, and they'll continue to come after you.
Please apply your words to US government too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
If someone utters xenophobic, stereotyping invective, an intelligent, civilized and fair-minded person either rebukes that individual or distances himself from it.
Sorry I don't get your indignation. It would be no different if I were to comment on the horrible education scores of American youth or the US obesity problem. They are just observations and verifiable data points even though they may broad generalizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan
But many Americans always hate Chinese.
Probably fear not hate. The US is used to being the strongest super power but China is on track to potentially overtake them in this role. Because China is not a democracy it has a fundamentally different political system than the US and that causes uncertainty. When the Chinese youth start overturning and burning US made cars and US based businesses, as they recently did to Japan, that would be a demonstration of hatred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Probably fear not hate. The US is used to being the strongest super power but China is on track to potentially overtake them in this role. Because China is not a democracy it has a fundamentally different political system than the US and that causes uncertainty. When the Chinese youth start overturning and burning US made cars and US based businesses, as they recently did to Japan, that would be a demonstration of hatred.
Now you are political. Talking about politics, I have seen more from US politicians interfering in trade with China than vice versa. US politicians also use excuses that can never be proved.
* Point 1
AppleInsider staff gets a "F" for journalism on this article. The translation is incomprehensible. It doesn't help the story--it clouds it.
* Point 2
If the essence of what Tim said is reflected in this article (and forget the translation), namely...
- Improved repair policies for the iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S.
- A new "concise and clear" statement on its website regarding repair and warranty policies.
- Increased supervision and training of Apple Authorized Service providers.
- A new feedback service that makes it easier for customers to contact the company with
issues or complaints.
Then I see nothing wrong with that. It's what you and I would expect if we were the customers.
As for all the criticism of Tim's "apologetic tone" ... how can you discern his tone and meaning with a translation like that? And this is, btw, international business--you must respect cultures. What's to gain by not doing so? Do to them as you would have them do to you--whether or not they ever do it. And, to you who think otherwise ... may the bridges you burn behind you, light the way before you.
I see a lot of commenters are perhaps not very familiar with cultural (and political) differences between the US and China.
Giving a little bit of benefit of doubt on the translation, I think that what Cook has done here is perfect.
Some things to consider:
1. China isn't Adobe. It's an authoritarian regime. You cannot win a direct confrontation with them, because the courts are a joke and even if they weren't, it's not like you actually have any rights anyway. If the government there decides it wants to F you, you're F'd.
2. Ancient Art of War. Given the reality of #1, the way to fight China is sneaky and backhanded. You "apologize" in a way that makes you look good and them look bad, and make it very hard for them to point to anything in the apology that makes it clear what you're doing. Succeeding in China is all about being passive aggressive.
3. Acceptance of reality. At the end of the day, Apple may have to accept artificial constraints on how much success the company can have in China. Apple should just use back channels to discretely figure out what exactly the Chinese government wants those constraints to be.
4. Take names, remember for later. While Apple will lose any direct confrontations with the Chinese government in the short run, in the long run Apple has some real advantages (like a lot of money; the affection of Chinese consumers; and the influence over a lot of Chinese workers). Keep track of the individual a-holes in the Chinese government and media doing this, and as opportunities arise, F them over as best you can. Ie, make your own karma.