(Re: recognition of sales) Do you notice any differences?
Yes, I'm familiar with those. Apple records a sale when shipped. Samsung records the sale when delivered.
Both companies record the sale when the burden of ownership has passed to someone else and payment is assured.
Notice also that with Samsung, "if product sales are subject to customer acceptance, revenue is not recognized until customer acceptance occurs".
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3) What evidence do you have for your claim that "US retailer buying rebounded a couple of quarters later," ...
Not a claim. Fact. Court records from last year's Koh trial gave us Samsung's US tablet sales:
2010 Q4 = 262K (Samsung reported "smooth" initial end user sales
2011 Q1 = 77K (Down quarter that showed initial end user sales were slow.)
2011 Q2 = 266K (Sales rebounded after the Q4 stock got sold.)
2011 Q3 = 293K (Sales not only rebounded, they climbed.)
2011 Q4 = 347K
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4) I did not know that "retailer overbuying" was a problem for Apple "a couple of quarters last year." Please tell us more. Where did you see/read/hear about this?
Okay, you must not follow Apple very closely at all. Others here know very well about it.
Last year, I heard about it from Tim Cook during two quarterly earnings calls, just like everyone else. The first time was explaining why iPhone sales were down far more than could be expected from people simply holding off for a new model. Cook had to explain that the previous quarter's sales into retailers were 2.6 million more than were actually sold through to end users during that quarter.
Quote:
And so what that did was, it increased sell in over sell through by 2.6 million units. - Tim Cook 3FQ12
Similarly, in the 4FQ12 earnings call, Cook had to again explain that a 3 million (18%) drop in iPad sales had occurred for the same reason: retailers had bought too many the previous quarter and were holding back buying more while they sold their extra inventory.
Every company has quarters where sales drop because of retailers overbuying the previous quarter. In most cases, the inventory eventually sells, so it all works out over time.
Good point, but regardless their phones will be the majority of that.
Wrong. Last quarter their mobile division was around 48% of the total revenues. And that includes dumb phones, feature phones, smartphones and tablets. Samsung might not give detailed sales, but their quarterly earnings result do break things down by division.
Wrong. Last quarter their mobile division was around 48% of the total revenues. And that includes dumb phones, feature phones, smartphones and tablets. Samsung might not give detailed sales, but their quarterly earnings result do break things down by division.
How much does their mobile division contribute to the bottom line?
How much does their mobile division contribute to the bottom line?
Now that I don't know since Samsung didn't break out that portion. Mobile did 27 trillion won, but IM did 31 trillion and Mobile is a division of IM.
IM had 5.4 trillion won operating profit last quarter so Monile was likely most of it. Though its odd Samsung would choose not to break out Mobile in operating profit when they did in revenues.
Who cares about a billion dollar fine, when you've made many more billions than that in profit? And it probably won't even be a billion dollar fine. Some judge or other asshat will no doubt lower the fine.
Already lowered by an asshat judge to about half a billion.
Because Samsung makes every single part in their phones? Riiiiiight. Open a Samsung phone and you'll see many of the parts are from the same non-Samsung sources as you'll see in an iPhone.
Such as Sony camera sensors found in the relatively small percentage of high end handsets they sell compared to their cheap and mid range handsets.
"Samsung keeps investing in R&D. They've boosted their smartphone R&D workforce to 25,000 or so from less than 20,000, and I think they have an exciting product lineup ready, probably in the second half, to upend the market," said Lee Do-hoon, an analyst at RBS.
So Samsung has 25,000 employees just working on smartphone R&D? Somehow I find that hard to believe.
Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents. That implies a considerable workforce.
Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone. Samsung Electronics have about 206,000 employees worldwide.
Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents. That implies a considerable workforce.
Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone. Samsung Electronics have about 206,000 employees worldwide.
I would say the figure is very credible.
Wow with all those people working in R&D you'd think we'd get more from them than just making phone with larger screen sizes and gimmicky software features. Unless most of these employees are working in their semiconductor unit.
Comments
Think Apple will mirror this with an earnings beat, but revenue miss?
Doesn't matter. They're earning and earning well above everyone else except for Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
(Re: recognition of sales) Do you notice any differences?
Yes, I'm familiar with those. Apple records a sale when shipped. Samsung records the sale when delivered.
Both companies record the sale when the burden of ownership has passed to someone else and payment is assured.
Notice also that with Samsung, "if product sales are subject to customer acceptance, revenue is not recognized until customer acceptance occurs".
Quote:
3) What evidence do you have for your claim that "US retailer buying rebounded a couple of quarters later," ...
Not a claim. Fact. Court records from last year's Koh trial gave us Samsung's US tablet sales:
2010 Q4 = 262K (Samsung reported "smooth" initial end user sales
2011 Q1 = 77K (Down quarter that showed initial end user sales were slow.)
2011 Q2 = 266K (Sales rebounded after the Q4 stock got sold.)
2011 Q3 = 293K (Sales not only rebounded, they climbed.)
2011 Q4 = 347K
Quote:
4) I did not know that "retailer overbuying" was a problem for Apple "a couple of quarters last year." Please tell us more. Where did you see/read/hear about this?
Okay, you must not follow Apple very closely at all. Others here know very well about it.
Last year, I heard about it from Tim Cook during two quarterly earnings calls, just like everyone else. The first time was explaining why iPhone sales were down far more than could be expected from people simply holding off for a new model. Cook had to explain that the previous quarter's sales into retailers were 2.6 million more than were actually sold through to end users during that quarter.
Quote:
And so what that did was, it increased sell in over sell through by 2.6 million units. - Tim Cook 3FQ12
Similarly, in the 4FQ12 earnings call, Cook had to again explain that a 3 million (18%) drop in iPad sales had occurred for the same reason: retailers had bought too many the previous quarter and were holding back buying more while they sold their extra inventory.
Every company has quarters where sales drop because of retailers overbuying the previous quarter. In most cases, the inventory eventually sells, so it all works out over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralParkMac
It is time for Apple to pull up their socks and fix all their bugs. They are losing market share to their biggest rivals in Samsung.
Um no there not they actually gained market share against shamelessung in the US these last two quarters:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/04/04/apple-extends-lead-over-samsung-gains-on-google-in-us-smartphone-market
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Yeah, the Surface in the article is some huge table.
However, it's listed in the timeline for 2008, while the iPhone, which came out in 2007 is nowhere to be found on that timeline.
Reading that article was like reading the history of WWII, written by a skinhead.
+1
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Originally Posted by ankleskater
I too worry about other Android makers in the shadow of Samsung. HTC is paying attention. Their latest designs are ripped from someone's pages.
iPhone 5 Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
And since the S4 has already been announced I'd be curious to know what this new product lineup is that's going to "upend the market".
The GS4 version 2 and GS4 version 3 one will have more memory and the other a faster processor¡/s
And anyalists will fawn all over themselves in gushing admiration of Shamelessungs innovation.
IM had 5.4 trillion won operating profit last quarter so Monile was likely most of it. Though its odd Samsung would choose not to break out Mobile in operating profit when they did in revenues.
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Originally Posted by Just_Me
Sold not shipped
Neither. Shipped and invoiced for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Ars Technica's headline: Samsung’s string of record quarterly profits ends softly at a cool $7.7 billion
Wow! $7.7 billion! It will take them two-quarters of profit to equal their advertising budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Crime does pay, apparently.
Who cares about a billion dollar fine, when you've made many more billions than that in profit? And it probably won't even be a billion dollar fine. Some judge or other asshat will no doubt lower the fine.
Already lowered by an asshat judge to about half a billion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic
Because Samsung makes every single part in their phones? Riiiiiight. Open a Samsung phone and you'll see many of the parts are from the same non-Samsung sources as you'll see in an iPhone.
Such as Sony camera sensors found in the relatively small percentage of high end handsets they sell compared to their cheap and mid range handsets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan
Because they think Microsoft saved Apple from extinction.
After the Newton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
From the Reuters article:
"Samsung keeps investing in R&D. They've boosted their smartphone R&D workforce to 25,000 or so from less than 20,000, and I think they have an exciting product lineup ready, probably in the second half, to upend the market," said Lee Do-hoon, an analyst at RBS.
So Samsung has 25,000 employees just working on smartphone R&D? Somehow I find that hard to believe.
Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents. That implies a considerable workforce.
Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone. Samsung Electronics have about 206,000 employees worldwide.
I would say the figure is very credible.
Phones
Tablets
PCs
TV sets
Washing machines
Freezers
Car and aircraft parts
God knows what else.
Samsung should be making ten times the profit that Apple does.
You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate. These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.