You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate. These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.
Aaah. Got it.
So we're talking
Phones
Tablets
PCs
TV sets
DVD Players
Given that they make so many products across so many price ranges then I stll don't understand why they don't make at least five times what Apple makes.
1) Notice also that with Samsung, "if product sales are subject to customer acceptance, revenue is not recognized until customer acceptance occurs".
2) Not a claim. Fact. Court records from last year's Koh trial ......
3) Last year, I heard about it from Tim Cook during two quarterly earnings calls, just like everyone else. The first time was explaining why iPhone sales were down far more than could be expected from people simply holding off for a new model. Cook had to explain that the previous quarter's sales into retailers were 2.6 million more than were actually sold through to end users during that quarter.
4) Every company has quarters where sales drop because of retailers overbuying the previous quarter. In most cases, the inventory eventually sells, so it all works out over time.
Thanks for the detailed response. However....
1) You completely ignored the point here that Apple reports channel quantity (as your own point #3 acknowledges) as well as volumes. Samsung does not. As a result, you can estimate Apple's actual sales (and average selling price) quite precisely, but with Samsung, you cannot.
2) The court records data you provide relate to an early stage in the life of Samsung's product. Not only are the data very stale and the numbers laughably low (perhaps one-tenth to one-twentieth of Apple's tablet sales), but they are also incredibly volatile because the product had just been introduced. If anything, the fact that you are only able to trot out two-year old volume data tells us that it's impossibly difficult to figure out what Samsung actually sold.
3) Granted. But again, the point is, given Cook's numbers, we can precisely estimate Apple's actual sales (ref, point #1 above).
4) Perhaps. With Apple, we know that it does since we can actually figure it out. With Samsung, all we have are stale data for a product that barely sells (and from such an early stage in its life cycle to be useless), and you are using that to extrapolate to a product (handsets) that Samsung claims they 'sell' in the many tens of millions.
Unconvincing.
The bottom line is, if things are as good as Samsung says it is, they would provide more honest, comprehensive, current data. They used to. They now don't, for some reason. (What do you think that reason is?).
Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents. That implies a considerable workforce.
Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone. Samsung Electronics have about 206,000 employees worldwide.
If that's the case, I'd have to say that, both on a per-employee and per-dollar basis, their workforce is pathetically unproductive compared to Apple's.
You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate. These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.
Aaah. Got it.
So we're talking
Phones
Tablets
PCs
TV sets
DVD Players
Given that they make so many products across so many price ranges then I stll don't understand why they don't make at least five times what Apple makes.
Actually, it's much lower.
Samsung Electronics falls into two broad categories: consumer electronics (PCs, DVDs, TVs etc) and telecom (mobile devices incl. phones/tablets and telecom equipment). Samsung does not break out revenue or operating profit for devices v. equipment, but even if we attribute all of the telecom segment sales to devices, it is less than two-thirds (2012 data) of SE sales.
So, the operating profit from devices are at most 7.7*0.67 = $5.16B.
Seeing u say this , I can feel the great work done by the market .
Next year today , Apple will be hitting its 52 weeks high . Wanna laugh at me? Yes, laugh me now.
As a stockholder I hope you are right. A year ago I never thought I would be hoping for even $500 a share. Now I am hoping it can at least stay above $400.
Comments
Aaah. Got it.
So we're talking
Phones
Tablets
PCs
TV sets
DVD Players
Given that they make so many products across so many price ranges then I stll don't understand why they don't make at least five times what Apple makes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
1) Notice also that with Samsung, "if product sales are subject to customer acceptance, revenue is not recognized until customer acceptance occurs".
2) Not a claim. Fact. Court records from last year's Koh trial ......
3) Last year, I heard about it from Tim Cook during two quarterly earnings calls, just like everyone else. The first time was explaining why iPhone sales were down far more than could be expected from people simply holding off for a new model. Cook had to explain that the previous quarter's sales into retailers were 2.6 million more than were actually sold through to end users during that quarter.
4) Every company has quarters where sales drop because of retailers overbuying the previous quarter. In most cases, the inventory eventually sells, so it all works out over time.
Thanks for the detailed response. However....
1) You completely ignored the point here that Apple reports channel quantity (as your own point #3 acknowledges) as well as volumes. Samsung does not. As a result, you can estimate Apple's actual sales (and average selling price) quite precisely, but with Samsung, you cannot.
2) The court records data you provide relate to an early stage in the life of Samsung's product. Not only are the data very stale and the numbers laughably low (perhaps one-tenth to one-twentieth of Apple's tablet sales), but they are also incredibly volatile because the product had just been introduced. If anything, the fact that you are only able to trot out two-year old volume data tells us that it's impossibly difficult to figure out what Samsung actually sold.
3) Granted. But again, the point is, given Cook's numbers, we can precisely estimate Apple's actual sales (ref, point #1 above).
4) Perhaps. With Apple, we know that it does since we can actually figure it out. With Samsung, all we have are stale data for a product that barely sells (and from such an early stage in its life cycle to be useless), and you are using that to extrapolate to a product (handsets) that Samsung claims they 'sell' in the many tens of millions.
Unconvincing.
The bottom line is, if things are as good as Samsung says it is, they would provide more honest, comprehensive, current data. They used to. They now don't, for some reason. (What do you think that reason is?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
Well someone is doing an awful lot of R&D for Samsung to have the second highest patent applications for a company in 2012 with 5,081 patents. That implies a considerable workforce.
Samsung have two R&D centers in India that between them employ about 6,000 software engineers alone. Samsung Electronics have about 206,000 employees worldwide.
If that's the case, I'd have to say that, both on a per-employee and per-dollar basis, their workforce is pathetically unproductive compared to Apple's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
You have to differentiate Samsung Electronics from the rest of the Samsung conglomerate. These figures are just for Samsung Electronics.
Aaah. Got it.
So we're talking
Phones
Tablets
PCs
TV sets
DVD Players
Given that they make so many products across so many price ranges then I stll don't understand why they don't make at least five times what Apple makes.
Actually, it's much lower.
Samsung Electronics falls into two broad categories: consumer electronics (PCs, DVDs, TVs etc) and telecom (mobile devices incl. phones/tablets and telecom equipment). Samsung does not break out revenue or operating profit for devices v. equipment, but even if we attribute all of the telecom segment sales to devices, it is less than two-thirds (2012 data) of SE sales.
So, the operating profit from devices are at most 7.7*0.67 = $5.16B.
Seeing u say this , I can feel the great work done by the market .
Next year today , Apple will be hitting its 52 weeks high . Wanna laugh at me? Yes, laugh me now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_mac_lover
Seeing u say this , I can feel the great work done by the market .
Next year today , Apple will be hitting its 52 weeks high . Wanna laugh at me? Yes, laugh me now.
As a stockholder I hope you are right. A year ago I never thought I would be hoping for even $500 a share. Now I am hoping it can at least stay above $400.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Me
Didnt know you could profit from shipped items that have to be repurchased backed later on
Korean GAAP reports sales in NET SALES, meaning Sales - (Returns + Discounts) = NET SALES.
So those numbers takes into consideration after the fact.