It's all semantics. No but you said how much more powerful a MBA is to the average netbook, and I compared the power between the iPhone and a Treo. While I'll agree that the 13" MBA is a notebook the 11" is more akin to a netbook which you guys act like is a bad word. Using that logic you should think tablet is a bad word considering all the crappy tablets (which were way worse than netbooks) that existed before the iPad.
Not really. It's categorizing based on technologies. I specifically mentioned Ultrabooks so prevent you from making this argument since it's not an Apple v. Others situation, it has to do with inherent technologies, not brand names or build quality, that separate these machines from being improperly labeled.
As for tablets, thick back to 2010. What kind of HW did those tablets run? CPUs much, much faster than was found in the original iPad, and probably still much faster than in the current, 4th gen iPad. The beauty of the iPad wasn't that it was faster, but that the HW was idealized for the form factor and the OS idealized for the HW. This is why it worked. If the iPad is a MacBook Pro then the Kindle Fire is a netbook, by certain criteria, but it's still a tablet.
"The problem is: netbooks aren't better at anything," Jobs said. "They're slow, they have low-quality displays, and they run clunky, old PC software. We don't think they're a third-category device."
The interesting thing about Jobs quote, above, is that you could substitute "Microsoft Surface" in place of "netbooks" and it would be just as true.
Somebody needs to slip this under Ballmer's car's windshield wiper blade.
It's all semantics. No but you said how much more powerful a MBA is to the average netbook, and I compared the power between the iPhone and a Treo. While I'll agree that the 13" MBA is a notebook the 11" [MBA] is more akin to a netbook which you guys act like is a bad word. Using that logic you should think tablet is a bad word considering all the crappy tablets (which were way worse than netbooks) that existed before the iPad.
I disagree with your statement that a 11" MBA is akin to a netbook, for this reason: A netbook was designed to be a limited utility computer made from the cheapest possible components. While a MBA of any screen size was optimized to be the thinnest and lightest weight laptop possible. That the two you mentioned, look quite similar from 100 meters distance is only a coincidence.
The Chromebook seems to be enjoying some popularity at least amongst an Android-centric crowd. I would certainly consider Chromebooks to be netbooks, in fact, Chromebooks may be the quintessential netbook. The Chromebook Pixel is an attempt to elevate public opinion about netbooks, otherwise the Chromebook is doomed to the same "make it up in volume" mentality. The challenge is that the only way to differentiate a product that is seen as manufactured by commodity brands is price. Ultimately no one wins the price war; not the companies, not the consumer.
Netbooks ended-up being caught between smartphones & pads / tablets as well as the low end normal laptops, all these 3 formats are better at what netbooks were mainly aimed at, 'net' access + Facebook & Twitter. These successful 3 formats are capable of a lot more.
The continuing netbook manufacturers, if there are any, may try to morph them into Google's Chromebook format, but I think that is doomed to oblivion too, as it is still a net based / browsing format. Who wants yet another thing to have & carry around when your phone, pad or laptop can do the job anyway?
As for being landfill, hopefully ex-owners of netbooks will hopefully think & recycle them for scrap. Then again they did buy netbooks.
Netbooks were great for filling the need to do what they can do for what they cost at a time when you couldn't do as well for just $400 and then $200. There's still a market for a widget where anything above $300 is a dealkiller, and people have no delusions about what that will get them. Asus and Acer and etc. could be making nice little useful netbooks for cheap but what I've pecked around on for the past year have pretty much been pretty unpleasant to use. Doesn't have to be, but I guess that's that. It's like they stopped actually checking to see if the end user experience was too not fun. They had their run, but it wasn't as long as it looked like it would be when they were introduced, that's for sure.
And, as typically, now that something else (tablets) is so popular, those companies are all chasing what someone else is setting the standard for and dropping the other balls, rather than be forward looking to create a new stage to set their own new standard on. So they don't have the old balls or the future balls in the air, just the current ones, which are always playing catch up. Most of them should cede the category they're not going to get and blow up some segment that Apple isn't interested in.
It's all semantics. No but you said how much more powerful a MBA is to the average netbook, and I compared the power between the iPhone and a Treo. While I'll agree that the 13" MBA is a notebook the 11" is more akin to a netbook which you guys act like is a bad word. Using that logic you should think tablet is a bad word considering all the crappy tablets (which were way worse than netbooks) that existed before the iPad.
'It's all semantics' is something people say when they realise they don't know what they're talking about. They'll just blame it on 'semantics' being misunderstood.
The rest of your post makes no sense. You are confusing netbook with notebook. Saying 'all tablets are crap' because there are crap tablets is not akin to saying 'all netbooks are crap.' The fact is, all netbooks ARE crap. As has been mentioned a netbook is a subcategory of notebooks. And to use your analogy, a netbook is a cheap plastic car whilst a MBA is a Ferrari.
Don't say 'using that logic...' when you haven't used any logic.
The Chromebook seems to be enjoying some popularity at least amongst an Android-centric crowd. I would certainly consider Chromebooks to be netbooks, in fact, Chromebooks may be the quintessential netbook. The Chromebook Pixel is an attempt to elevate public opinion about netbooks, otherwise the Chromebook is doomed to the same "make it up in volume" mentality. The challenge is that the only way to differentiate a product that is seen as manufactured by commodity brands is price. Ultimately no one wins the price war; not the companies, not the consumer.
? Low-performance ? Inexpensive ? OS and HW designed for the "net"
I would agree that Chromebooks are the quintessential netbook model since it encapsulates everything the netbooks tried to market toward with the added bonus of an OS that is actually what people want to do with it and can realistically do with the HW. I think Chrome OS is a smashing great idea. Most here hate it and oft complain that it's a web browser but I wonder if they also hate WebOS, which is the same concept with bot using WebKit as the UI. I only wish the power efficiency of the OS was much, much better.
Slightly off topic, but just had a thought. If Apple have a problem in any country with the iPad name, maybe they should have it as the iPadlet in that country. Then it could unofficially be called the iPad as normal, much as in how the Mac was originally called the Macintosh but people just referred to it as the Mac.
Originally Posted by dasanman69 While I'll agree that the 13" MBA is a notebook the 11" is more akin to a netbook which you guys act like is a bad word.
So you're implying it's screen size which defines whether a computer is a netbook or not; the 11" MBA spec is near identical to the 13" MBA.
So with this logic a Colt M16 assault rifle is a gun whilst a Colt M1911 Pistol is more akin to a potato spud gun, due to their similar size.
ASUS seems to have gotten over it by slapping a touch screen onto their Netbook.
There's a brand new netbook sitting in it's original box on a shelf in my house, rejected by both my kids as being unusable. I can't even remember what brand it is (asus maybe). Its been sitting there for nearly two years. I thought of giving it away but it was so useless I always felt giving it away would be mean and not nice.
The beauty of the iPad wasn't that it was faster, but that the HW was idealized for the form factor and the OS idealized for the HW. This is why it worked.
This is so key, especially to point out why early and mid era PC netbooks were fighting a losing battle. It's not that Windows is always a horrible place to be, but the versions of Windows on the low power, inexpensive netbooks was a horrible experience on that hardware. Not made for each other at all and made you annoyed that neither the hardware maker nor Microsoft thought it was a bad idea. Did they never try them? Made you feel they didn't care.
I used a $350 Asus for loading photography and audio backups on the road for quite a while because I didn't feel the need to buy another MBP just for that at many times more (and MBAs were still too expensive then). It was much tinier and lighter than my MBP and served it's purpose fine, but boy did I not enjoy using it. Everything took four times longer to do on it than it should have, not because it was a slow machine but because there was nothing was idealized between the hardware and the OS and software. If Microsoft had taken care of that single issue I would have been much less of a non-fan.
'It's all semantics' is something people say when they realise they don't know what they're talking about. They'll just blame it on 'semantics' being misunderstood.
The rest of your post makes no sense. You are confusing netbook with notebook. Saying 'all tablets are crap' because there are crap tablets is not akin to saying 'all netbooks are crap.' The fact is, all netbooks ARE crap. As has been mentioned a netbook is a subcategory of notebooks. And to use your analogy, a netbook is a cheap plastic car whilst a MBA is a Ferrari.
Don't say 'using that logic...' when you haven't used any logic.
I've used plenty. It's only been recently the there's been performance categories attached to names. People used laptops and notebooks interchangeably, there is no specific governing body authorized guidelines placed on what's a notebook and what's a ultrabook etc.. just a rule of thumb people go by which are semantics. They're all notebook computers.
It's too bad. I LOVED the heck out my Samsung NC10 because it was so easy to carry around, had a long battery life, and was a fully functional computer. I finally had to give it up because it's Atom processor couldn't handle the newer webpages I need for my business, and I'd already become reliant on my 13" MBP for most things by that point.
The iPad is great and all, but it doesn't fully replace my netbook, even with a keyboard accessory because navigating it's OS requires touching the screen. Anytime I have to take my hands off the keys to execute something or switch apps, or even navigate within the app, it slows me down and it's not enjoyable or efficient. That's something I would like to see address in iOS 7: better integration with keyboard accessories.
I've used plenty. It's only been recently the there's been performance categories attached to names. People used laptops and notebooks interchangeably, there is no specific governing body authorized guidelines placed on what's a notebook and what's a ultrabook etc.. just a rule of thumb people go by which are semantics. They're all notebook computers.
1) Right, all netbooks are notebook computers, but not all notebooks are netbooks. Let's remember that you started this by semantically placing the MBA in the netbook category for reasons that still remain unclear.
2) Would you call the 17" MBP a tower? Would you even call it a desktop even if that the place it's most likely used? It's unlikely to be used under a desk. If I started referring to my MBP as an All-In-One would you not think that's confusing? It's certainly more of an AIO than the iMac which needs peripherals attached just to use. So why aren't these terms merely semantic? Perhaps there are real reasons why we have categories; for instance, to help facilitate effective and efficient communication and knowledge.
3) The Homo sapiens sapiens Carl Linnaeus is rolling over in his grave right now. There are many, many governing bodies that specify names. There is even on (at least) dedicated to making sure no one else uses the name Ultrabook as it's a registered trademark of Intel.
1) Right, all netbooks are notebook computers, but not all notebooks are netbooks. Let's remember that you started this by semantically placing the MBA in the netbook category for reasons that still remain unclear.
2) Would you call the 17" MBP a tower? Would you even call it a desktop even if that the place it's most likely used? It's unlikely to be used under a desk. If I started referring to my MBP as an All-In-One would you not think that's confusing? It's certainly more of an AIO than the iMac which needs peripherals attached just to use. So why aren't these terms merely semantic? Perhaps there are real reasons why we have categories; for instance, to help facilitate effective and efficient communication and knowledge.
3) The Homo sapiens sapiens Carl Linnaeus is rolling over in his grave right now. There are many, many governing bodies that specify names. There is even on (at least) dedicated to making sure no one else uses the name Ultrabook as it's a registered trademark of Intel.
No you're starting to compare apples and oranges when I was just comparing different types of apples, and ultimately you're free to call whatever anything you want and so am I.
Comments
Not really. It's categorizing based on technologies. I specifically mentioned Ultrabooks so prevent you from making this argument since it's not an Apple v. Others situation, it has to do with inherent technologies, not brand names or build quality, that separate these machines from being improperly labeled.
As for tablets, thick back to 2010. What kind of HW did those tablets run? CPUs much, much faster than was found in the original iPad, and probably still much faster than in the current, 4th gen iPad. The beauty of the iPad wasn't that it was faster, but that the HW was idealized for the form factor and the OS idealized for the HW. This is why it worked. If the iPad is a MacBook Pro then the Kindle Fire is a netbook, by certain criteria, but it's still a tablet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
"The problem is: netbooks aren't better at anything," Jobs said. "They're slow, they have low-quality displays, and they run clunky, old PC software. We don't think they're a third-category device."
The interesting thing about Jobs quote, above, is that you could substitute "Microsoft Surface" in place of "netbooks" and it would be just as true.
Somebody needs to slip this under Ballmer's car's windshield wiper blade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
It's all semantics. No but you said how much more powerful a MBA is to the average netbook, and I compared the power between the iPhone and a Treo. While I'll agree that the 13" MBA is a notebook the 11" [MBA] is more akin to a netbook which you guys act like is a bad word. Using that logic you should think tablet is a bad word considering all the crappy tablets (which were way worse than netbooks) that existed before the iPad.
I disagree with your statement that a 11" MBA is akin to a netbook, for this reason: A netbook was designed to be a limited utility computer made from the cheapest possible components. While a MBA of any screen size was optimized to be the thinnest and lightest weight laptop possible. That the two you mentioned, look quite similar from 100 meters distance is only a coincidence.
I never understood the love for netbooks anyways. My laptop always came everywhere with me.
Netbooks ended-up being caught between smartphones & pads / tablets as well as the low end normal laptops, all these 3 formats are better at what netbooks were mainly aimed at, 'net' access + Facebook & Twitter. These successful 3 formats are capable of a lot more.
The continuing netbook manufacturers, if there are any, may try to morph them into Google's Chromebook format, but I think that is doomed to oblivion too, as it is still a net based / browsing format. Who wants yet another thing to have & carry around when your phone, pad or laptop can do the job anyway?
As for being landfill, hopefully ex-owners of netbooks will hopefully think & recycle them for scrap. Then again they did buy netbooks.
Netbooks were great for filling the need to do what they can do for what they cost at a time when you couldn't do as well for just $400 and then $200. There's still a market for a widget where anything above $300 is a dealkiller, and people have no delusions about what that will get them. Asus and Acer and etc. could be making nice little useful netbooks for cheap but what I've pecked around on for the past year have pretty much been pretty unpleasant to use. Doesn't have to be, but I guess that's that. It's like they stopped actually checking to see if the end user experience was too not fun. They had their run, but it wasn't as long as it looked like it would be when they were introduced, that's for sure.
And, as typically, now that something else (tablets) is so popular, those companies are all chasing what someone else is setting the standard for and dropping the other balls, rather than be forward looking to create a new stage to set their own new standard on. So they don't have the old balls or the future balls in the air, just the current ones, which are always playing catch up. Most of them should cede the category they're not going to get and blow up some segment that Apple isn't interested in.
'It's all semantics' is something people say when they realise they don't know what they're talking about. They'll just blame it on 'semantics' being misunderstood.
The rest of your post makes no sense. You are confusing netbook with notebook. Saying 'all tablets are crap' because there are crap tablets is not akin to saying 'all netbooks are crap.' The fact is, all netbooks ARE crap. As has been mentioned a netbook is a subcategory of notebooks. And to use your analogy, a netbook is a cheap plastic car whilst a MBA is a Ferrari.
Don't say 'using that logic...' when you haven't used any logic.
? Low-performance
? Inexpensive
? OS and HW designed for the "net"
I would agree that Chromebooks are the quintessential netbook model since it encapsulates everything the netbooks tried to market toward with the added bonus of an OS that is actually what people want to do with it and can realistically do with the HW. I think Chrome OS is a smashing great idea. Most here hate it and oft complain that it's a web browser but I wonder if they also hate WebOS, which is the same concept with bot using WebKit as the UI. I only wish the power efficiency of the OS was much, much better.
Slightly off topic, but just had a thought. If Apple have a problem in any country with the iPad name, maybe they should have it as the iPadlet in that country. Then it could unofficially be called the iPad as normal, much as in how the Mac was originally called the Macintosh but people just referred to it as the Mac.
ASUS seems to have gotten over it by slapping a touch screen onto their Netbook.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Sure they do. MBAs are netbooks done properly.
Originally Posted by dasanman69
So you're implying it's screen size which defines whether a computer is a netbook or not; the 11" MBA spec is near identical to the 13" MBA.
So with this logic a Colt M16 assault rifle is a gun whilst a Colt M1911 Pistol is more akin to a potato spud gun, due to their similar size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
ASUS seems to have gotten over it by slapping a touch screen onto their Netbook.
There's a brand new netbook sitting in it's original box on a shelf in my house, rejected by both my kids as being unusable. I can't even remember what brand it is (asus maybe). Its been sitting there for nearly two years. I thought of giving it away but it was so useless I always felt giving it away would be mean and not nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
The beauty of the iPad wasn't that it was faster, but that the HW was idealized for the form factor and the OS idealized for the HW. This is why it worked.
This is so key, especially to point out why early and mid era PC netbooks were fighting a losing battle. It's not that Windows is always a horrible place to be, but the versions of Windows on the low power, inexpensive netbooks was a horrible experience on that hardware. Not made for each other at all and made you annoyed that neither the hardware maker nor Microsoft thought it was a bad idea. Did they never try them? Made you feel they didn't care.
I used a $350 Asus for loading photography and audio backups on the road for quite a while because I didn't feel the need to buy another MBP just for that at many times more (and MBAs were still too expensive then). It was much tinier and lighter than my MBP and served it's purpose fine, but boy did I not enjoy using it. Everything took four times longer to do on it than it should have, not because it was a slow machine but because there was nothing was idealized between the hardware and the OS and software. If Microsoft had taken care of that single issue I would have been much less of a non-fan.
I've used plenty. It's only been recently the there's been performance categories attached to names. People used laptops and notebooks interchangeably, there is no specific governing body authorized guidelines placed on what's a notebook and what's a ultrabook etc.. just a rule of thumb people go by which are semantics. They're all notebook computers.
It's too bad. I LOVED the heck out my Samsung NC10 because it was so easy to carry around, had a long battery life, and was a fully functional computer. I finally had to give it up because it's Atom processor couldn't handle the newer webpages I need for my business, and I'd already become reliant on my 13" MBP for most things by that point.
The iPad is great and all, but it doesn't fully replace my netbook, even with a keyboard accessory because navigating it's OS requires touching the screen. Anytime I have to take my hands off the keys to execute something or switch apps, or even navigate within the app, it slows me down and it's not enjoyable or efficient. That's something I would like to see address in iOS 7: better integration with keyboard accessories.
1) Right, all netbooks are notebook computers, but not all notebooks are netbooks. Let's remember that you started this by semantically placing the MBA in the netbook category for reasons that still remain unclear.
2) Would you call the 17" MBP a tower? Would you even call it a desktop even if that the place it's most likely used? It's unlikely to be used under a desk. If I started referring to my MBP as an All-In-One would you not think that's confusing? It's certainly more of an AIO than the iMac which needs peripherals attached just to use. So why aren't these terms merely semantic? Perhaps there are real reasons why we have categories; for instance, to help facilitate effective and efficient communication and knowledge.
3) The Homo sapiens sapiens Carl Linnaeus is rolling over in his grave right now. There are many, many governing bodies that specify names. There is even on (at least) dedicated to making sure no one else uses the name Ultrabook as it's a registered trademark of Intel.
No you're starting to compare apples and oranges when I was just comparing different types of apples, and ultimately you're free to call whatever anything you want and so am I.