What would you call a rise from $360 to $634 in 4 months and what would you claim about the CEO's performance at the time?
I recall that people were giving him a lot credit for managing a tough transition superbly, and sent the stock up with high hopes for the future.
As he took credit on the upside, it is perfectly logical for investors to expect him to take the blame.
Btw, he does not have to do a whole lot. For starters, a massive repurchase and keeping those as treasury stock (thereby credibly signaling future confidence in Apple's future cash flow prospects by putting their money where their mouth is) will move the needle quite a bit. A board shake-up couldn't hurt. Just coming out and acknowledging the embarrassing stock price performance, and laying out a broad vision (it does not have to be by any means a specific roadmap) will be hugely helpful.
With all due respect, if people have their retirement savings and kids college funds tied up in tech stock, then they are fucking morons. History has shown the extreme unpredictability of these stocks.
With all due respect, you are a fucking idiot. Apple is one of the biggest market cap companies in the world, and so any fund (meaning pension fund or mutual fund) which invest in the broad market is going to hold apple. Not to mention the fact that most tech stocks are just as predictable as any other. The volatility of IBM is extremely low, google is about as volatile as the broad market.
I don't think has anything to do with Cirrus reports, especially when they claim that the "Supplier" had migrated to a newer component. Apple opened lower along with the market and this stupid news drove frantic investors to dump the stock as they could not take one more round of blood bath. The support levels at $420 range were broken and that was enough for the downward spiral.
Now, for Apple's strategy with new product introduction, I think they have learnt their lesson to not announce it much ahead of the actual product being available as this has killed sales of current products. I think going forward, their strategy would be announce a new product and make it available in a very short period of time and perhaps they will also stop attaching number to iphone, such as 5s, 6 etc. It will simply be New iPhone and let the product speak for itself as to how new it is.
The stock is bound to make a come back later this year, and I believe that would happen with a new Product (perhaps an iWatch or an iWallet) that could eat into current payment processing markets. The opportunity is huge and Apple has the cash, technology and user base.
But, then again, this is me being very optimistic about this company. If by October, they don't make a brand new product line announcement, or the stock hits $260 a share, I will dump the stock.
It has everything to do with the Cirrus report. When Cirrus announced the news yesterday, Apple dropped $1.5 in after hours trading. Knew it was going to be a bad day, turned out really bloody. And there was also a report from DigiTimes, saying that LG expect LCD panels build rate slowing ahead of a refresh, that iPad Mini units can drop by 30% in the June quarter.
The lesson Apple should have learnt from last year is not to pack product launches so close together. The traditional launch cycle has iMac in January, iPad in March, MacBook Pro/Mac Pro in June for WWDC, and iPhone in July - September. That keeps everyone talking about Apple all year long, rather than being overdosed on news about the iPhone and nothing for the next 8 months.
When he took over at Apple in 2005, the stock was in the mid-$20s. Now it's selling at over $60. The stock swooned a bit during the recession (to ~$16), but since then, it has been on a fairly steady upwards trajectory.
People seem to view him as a very effective CEO. He has managed the Pixar integration very well, and many analysts seem to think that Disney has its mojo back -- something that it had seriously lost during the disastrous Eisner era.
I don't know if Iger is a perfect match for Apple, but I am pretty sure he would be a better visionary leader than Cook.
Rebound about 50% of the drop. Maybe that is optimistic, but I put in a options "bet" buying the 400s and selling the $415s. If it drops again I will do the same thing at reduced levels, if it is flat I will buy it back at a slight loss, and if it goes up as expected I will pocket the roughly 280% gain. I'm pretty optimistic they will increase the dividend in May so I want to capture that with another bull call spread, but I dont think earnings will be good so leaning towards doing it after they announce.
I was thinking a rally tomorrow was well, wanted to see if my thinking was completely out of line. I was planning on a buy-write after earnings, but I haven't looked into the mini options yet.(not comfortable committing to 100 shares at this point)
What would you call a rise from $360 to $634 in 4 months and what would you claim about the CEO's performance at the time?
What new product would you like that has the same 100m+/year sales potential as the iPad? How can they increase iPhone revenues without lowering the price?
Stock markets have short memories. Like the Janet Jackson song it is all about what have you done for me lately. And more importantly what will you do in the future. The high stock increase happened not that long after Jobs death so I think it is fair to assume he was just following a plan that Jobs had laid out. As to your question about what products could reinvigorate sales I think a larger screen iPhone along with a more affordable version would go a long way to calm the markets. Perhaps a new Apple TV with a full iOS experience along with a controller that makes sense. Also add HDMI pass-through to the cable or satellite box to allow watching live TV or even better full navigation and recorded shows from your DVR list. That part would be difficult since you would need those companies to allow that level of integration and I doubt they would want to cede that level of control over to Apple. My point is that a very minor update to iOS along with a largely unchanged 4 inch 5S will not turn things around. They will have to either introduce a brand new product that proves hugely popular like the iPad or figure out a way to take their existing lines and sell a lot more of them than they have been doing.
The irony is that if Apple would to change their decade or so long practice of not preannouncing etc, many would spin it to say they are talking because they are scared. They need to tell everyone what they are planning to 'beat' the other boys to the market because of they wait everyone will buy whatever. Blah blah blah.
What frustrates me a lot is the slow speed that Apple responds to market changes. The market started to shift toward larger phones at the end of 2011. Like it or not, there are people who want bigger screens.Apple waited a year to introduce the iPhone 5, which became a tiny phone by then. Six months later, they still can't launch a bigger phone, or a cheaper one (as has been rumored for so long). Whether it's Ive holding back the design because it's not curved enough, or Cook unable to line up the suppliers, Apple has some problems with its speed to market. People are scared that Apple realizes things too late.
Stock markets have short memories. Like the Janet Jackson song it is all about what have you done for me lately. And more importantly what will you do in the future. The high stock increase happened not that long after Jobs death so I think it is fair to assume he was just following a plan that Jobs had laid out. As to your question about what products could reinvigorate sales I think a larger screen iPhone along with a more affordable version would go a long way to calm the markets. Perhaps a new Apple TV with a full iOS experience along with a controller that makes sense. Also add HDMI pass-through to the cable or satellite box to allow watching live TV or even better full navigation and recorded shows from your DVR list. That part would be difficult since you would need those companies to allow that level of integration and I doubt they would want to cede that level of control over to Apple. My point is that a very minor update to iOS along with a largely unchanged 4 inch 5S will not turn things around. They will have to either introduce a brand new product that proves hugely popular like the iPad or figure out a way to take their existing lines and sell a lot more of them than they have been doing.
Indeed and Mr. Market is saying that even with some of the most talented engineers in the world and more cash than they know what to do with, they can't pull it off. All the resources, all the talent, no leader. Its a shame.
What frustrates me a lot is the slow speed that Apple responds to market changes. The market started to shift toward larger phones at the end of 2011. Like it or not, there are people who want bigger screens.Apple waited a year to introduce the iPhone 5, which became a tiny phone by then. Six months later, they still can't launch a bigger phone, or a cheaper one (as has been rumored for so long). Whether it's Ive holding back the design because it's not curved enough, or Cook unable to line up the suppliers, Apple has some problems with its speed to market. People are scared that Apple realizes things too late.
Said a different way, they went from being proactive to reactive. Sign of fat, rich and happy management team. No CEO should flip the bird at shareholders like Tim Cook has, mocking efforts some have made to increase value as 'silly.' He is getting all the b*tch slapping he deserves and will continue to get hammered until he leaves tail between his legs and shamed.
Indeed and Mr. Market is saying that even with some of the most talented engineers in the world and more cash than they know what to do with, they can't pull it off. All the resources, all the talent, no leader. Its a shame.
Not that I completely agree with you, but Apple is really in the entertainment business, not the tech business. Jobs made the Apple presentations a worldwide phenomena and everyone talked about them. Tim Cook is like the poor guy that follows a hot comedian on stage with a solid, but not very memorable performance. Anything less than magic is a letdown for people. It's a very rough spot to be in.
I was thinking a rally tomorrow was well, wanted to see if my thinking was completely out of line. I was planning on a buy-write after earnings, but I haven't looked into the mini options yet.(not comfortable committing to 100 shares at this point)
Yeah, it's a lot of jack for 100 shares which is why I use spreads. Good luck on the options play. Depending on the size of the dividend increase I think it could see a considerable boost, especially if it's at or below this level. Just something to consider.
Said a different way, they went from being proactive to reactive. Sign of fat, rich and happy management team. No CEO should flip the bird at shareholders like Tim Cook has, mocking efforts some have made to increase value as 'silly.' He is getting all the b*tch slapping he deserves and will continue to get hammered until he leaves tail between his legs and shamed.
Cook is certainly not "flip(ing) the bird at shareholders". Heck, I still don't think Apple should've offered a dividend. If people don't want to invest in Apple, too bad for them. Giving into Wall Street demands takes the emphasis off of creating the world's most desirable tech and onto the desires of bean counters and short-term, spineless short-term "investors" and weasel "analysts".
The bottom will be in when Tim Cook acts like a capable CEO and articulates a plan to grow earnings and play offense. Until then nobody wants to touch the stock.
Cook said last quarter the analysts were wrong about supply chain data points and what they meant. He said months ago they don't need the cash and were actively thinking about doing something with it.
Recent rumors are that not only did the analysts and supply chain checks have better insight into what was happening to sales and consumer demand shifts, but more recently the chatter is Apple still doesn't know what to do with the cash.
It will be comical and sad for the CEO of Apple to basically acknowledge on the call next week that analysts knew what was occurring before he did and that he still hasn't come up with a plan for the cash. The floor will drop out if he says 'hey, you guys were right all along even though I said otherwise....sales are slowing.' He will deserve every bit of criticism he'll get if he is indeed that much of a clown.
What hard evidence do we have that the WSJ rumors from last quarter were accurate? Rumors on top of rumors mean nothing to me. Now if Apple reports weaker than expected iPhone sales next week then yeah maybe they were right and Cook was blowing smoke. But until then they're just rumors to be taken with a huge grain of salt.
Does anyone remember how long we had to wait for the "White" Iphone? Jobs was never satisfied with the quality so it got postponed again and again. I was in the Apple Store the other day (before today's drop!) and asked an employee about the stock price, as I think most employees hold some stock. He sort of rolled his eyes and said that's wall street. Then we spoke of the new apple TV. He intimated that Apple just won't release any new product until they are absolutely satisfied with it's quality. And it did remind me of the White Iphone, which at the time made me nuts since I had to wait over a year for it. But my white iphone is perfect, and was worth the wait, and the quality of the color has held up to lot's of abuse. So here's hoping something has been postponed because the people Jobs trained and worked with are not completely satisfied.
Well said. Cook doesnt really inspire confidence, and given Apple's made him rich beyond most people's wildest dreams I have to wonder how much he cares.
What evidence do we have that Tim is motivated by money? It's not like he's out there spending millions on yachts and islands ala Larry Ellison. We don't know much about Cook but the little we do know indicates someone whose life revolves around Apple and not much else. I've heard he's in the office at 5 am and is usually one of the last to leave. I don't think dedication to Apple is a problem.
Said a different way, they went from being proactive to reactive. Sign of fat, rich and happy management team. No CEO should flip the bird at shareholders like Tim Cook has, mocking efforts some have made to increase value as 'silly.' He is getting all the b*tch slapping he deserves and will continue to get hammered until he leaves tail between his legs and shamed.
Here's another gem. Does anyone believe this guy that he has his fortune tied to Apple's stock value? That he just loves his Apple products?
He is drooling over his vision of Apple's destruction. Fake fake fake.
Cook is certainly not "flip(ing) the bird at shareholders". Heck, I still don't think Apple should've offered a dividend. If people don't want to invest in Apple, too bad for them. Giving into Wall Street demands takes the emphasis off of creating the world's most desirable tech and onto the desires of bean counters and short-term, spineless short-term "investors" and weasel "analysts".
Talk about incoherent rambling. How paying a dividend takes the focus off anything is a difficult thought process to follow. That last sentence is just a mess, but good luck.
Said a different way, they went from being proactive to reactive. Sign of fat, rich and happy management team. No CEO should flip the bird at shareholders like Tim Cook has, mocking efforts some have made to increase value as 'silly.' He is getting all the b*tch slapping he deserves and will continue to get hammered until he leaves tail between his legs and shamed.
Oh, please shut the **** up. Every single one of your posts in every thread in this forum is a variation of the above. How much of a failure Cook is. You're a broken, boring record. Find a new trolling meme, or better yet, find a new hobby. Cook has never flipped the bird at shareholders. Steve Jobs did, and did that harm the company? No. Today could not have provided more clear evidence that the stock drops consist of insane investor/analyst reactions making sensational assumptions to completely bullshit stories as this Cirrus one. Yet, you still pretend that it's directly because of how much Tim Cook is hated. Stop projecting your hatred unto everyone else.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
What would you call a rise from $360 to $634 in 4 months and what would you claim about the CEO's performance at the time?
I recall that people were giving him a lot credit for managing a tough transition superbly, and sent the stock up with high hopes for the future.
As he took credit on the upside, it is perfectly logical for investors to expect him to take the blame.
Btw, he does not have to do a whole lot. For starters, a massive repurchase and keeping those as treasury stock (thereby credibly signaling future confidence in Apple's future cash flow prospects by putting their money where their mouth is) will move the needle quite a bit. A board shake-up couldn't hurt. Just coming out and acknowledging the embarrassing stock price performance, and laying out a broad vision (it does not have to be by any means a specific roadmap) will be hugely helpful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
With all due respect, if people have their retirement savings and kids college funds tied up in tech stock, then they are fucking morons. History has shown the extreme unpredictability of these stocks.
With all due respect, you are a fucking idiot. Apple is one of the biggest market cap companies in the world, and so any fund (meaning pension fund or mutual fund) which invest in the broad market is going to hold apple. Not to mention the fact that most tech stocks are just as predictable as any other. The volatility of IBM is extremely low, google is about as volatile as the broad market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by firhill07
I don't think has anything to do with Cirrus reports, especially when they claim that the "Supplier" had migrated to a newer component. Apple opened lower along with the market and this stupid news drove frantic investors to dump the stock as they could not take one more round of blood bath. The support levels at $420 range were broken and that was enough for the downward spiral.
Now, for Apple's strategy with new product introduction, I think they have learnt their lesson to not announce it much ahead of the actual product being available as this has killed sales of current products. I think going forward, their strategy would be announce a new product and make it available in a very short period of time and perhaps they will also stop attaching number to iphone, such as 5s, 6 etc. It will simply be New iPhone and let the product speak for itself as to how new it is.
The stock is bound to make a come back later this year, and I believe that would happen with a new Product (perhaps an iWatch or an iWallet) that could eat into current payment processing markets. The opportunity is huge and Apple has the cash, technology and user base.
But, then again, this is me being very optimistic about this company. If by October, they don't make a brand new product line announcement, or the stock hits $260 a share, I will dump the stock.
It has everything to do with the Cirrus report. When Cirrus announced the news yesterday, Apple dropped $1.5 in after hours trading. Knew it was going to be a bad day, turned out really bloody. And there was also a report from DigiTimes, saying that LG expect LCD panels build rate slowing ahead of a refresh, that iPad Mini units can drop by 30% in the June quarter.
The lesson Apple should have learnt from last year is not to pack product launches so close together. The traditional launch cycle has iMac in January, iPad in March, MacBook Pro/Mac Pro in June for WWDC, and iPhone in July - September. That keeps everyone talking about Apple all year long, rather than being overdosed on news about the iPhone and nothing for the next 8 months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
When he took over at Apple in 2005, the stock was in the mid-$20s. Now it's selling at over $60. The stock swooned a bit during the recession (to ~$16), but since then, it has been on a fairly steady upwards trajectory.
People seem to view him as a very effective CEO. He has managed the Pixar integration very well, and many analysts seem to think that Disney has its mojo back -- something that it had seriously lost during the disastrous Eisner era.
I don't know if Iger is a perfect match for Apple, but I am pretty sure he would be a better visionary leader than Cook.
I was thinking a rally tomorrow was well, wanted to see if my thinking was completely out of line. I was planning on a buy-write after earnings, but I haven't looked into the mini options yet.(not comfortable committing to 100 shares at this point)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
What would you call a rise from $360 to $634 in 4 months and what would you claim about the CEO's performance at the time?
What new product would you like that has the same 100m+/year sales potential as the iPad? How can they increase iPhone revenues without lowering the price?
Stock markets have short memories. Like the Janet Jackson song it is all about what have you done for me lately. And more importantly what will you do in the future. The high stock increase happened not that long after Jobs death so I think it is fair to assume he was just following a plan that Jobs had laid out. As to your question about what products could reinvigorate sales I think a larger screen iPhone along with a more affordable version would go a long way to calm the markets. Perhaps a new Apple TV with a full iOS experience along with a controller that makes sense. Also add HDMI pass-through to the cable or satellite box to allow watching live TV or even better full navigation and recorded shows from your DVR list. That part would be difficult since you would need those companies to allow that level of integration and I doubt they would want to cede that level of control over to Apple. My point is that a very minor update to iOS along with a largely unchanged 4 inch 5S will not turn things around. They will have to either introduce a brand new product that proves hugely popular like the iPad or figure out a way to take their existing lines and sell a lot more of them than they have been doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
The irony is that if Apple would to change their decade or so long practice of not preannouncing etc, many would spin it to say they are talking because they are scared. They need to tell everyone what they are planning to 'beat' the other boys to the market because of they wait everyone will buy whatever. Blah blah blah.
What frustrates me a lot is the slow speed that Apple responds to market changes. The market started to shift toward larger phones at the end of 2011. Like it or not, there are people who want bigger screens.Apple waited a year to introduce the iPhone 5, which became a tiny phone by then. Six months later, they still can't launch a bigger phone, or a cheaper one (as has been rumored for so long). Whether it's Ive holding back the design because it's not curved enough, or Cook unable to line up the suppliers, Apple has some problems with its speed to market. People are scared that Apple realizes things too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
Stock markets have short memories. Like the Janet Jackson song it is all about what have you done for me lately. And more importantly what will you do in the future. The high stock increase happened not that long after Jobs death so I think it is fair to assume he was just following a plan that Jobs had laid out. As to your question about what products could reinvigorate sales I think a larger screen iPhone along with a more affordable version would go a long way to calm the markets. Perhaps a new Apple TV with a full iOS experience along with a controller that makes sense. Also add HDMI pass-through to the cable or satellite box to allow watching live TV or even better full navigation and recorded shows from your DVR list. That part would be difficult since you would need those companies to allow that level of integration and I doubt they would want to cede that level of control over to Apple. My point is that a very minor update to iOS along with a largely unchanged 4 inch 5S will not turn things around. They will have to either introduce a brand new product that proves hugely popular like the iPad or figure out a way to take their existing lines and sell a lot more of them than they have been doing.
Indeed and Mr. Market is saying that even with some of the most talented engineers in the world and more cash than they know what to do with, they can't pull it off. All the resources, all the talent, no leader. Its a shame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino
What frustrates me a lot is the slow speed that Apple responds to market changes. The market started to shift toward larger phones at the end of 2011. Like it or not, there are people who want bigger screens.Apple waited a year to introduce the iPhone 5, which became a tiny phone by then. Six months later, they still can't launch a bigger phone, or a cheaper one (as has been rumored for so long). Whether it's Ive holding back the design because it's not curved enough, or Cook unable to line up the suppliers, Apple has some problems with its speed to market. People are scared that Apple realizes things too late.
Said a different way, they went from being proactive to reactive. Sign of fat, rich and happy management team. No CEO should flip the bird at shareholders like Tim Cook has, mocking efforts some have made to increase value as 'silly.' He is getting all the b*tch slapping he deserves and will continue to get hammered until he leaves tail between his legs and shamed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Indeed and Mr. Market is saying that even with some of the most talented engineers in the world and more cash than they know what to do with, they can't pull it off. All the resources, all the talent, no leader. Its a shame.
Not that I completely agree with you, but Apple is really in the entertainment business, not the tech business. Jobs made the Apple presentations a worldwide phenomena and everyone talked about them. Tim Cook is like the poor guy that follows a hot comedian on stage with a solid, but not very memorable performance. Anything less than magic is a letdown for people. It's a very rough spot to be in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo
I was thinking a rally tomorrow was well, wanted to see if my thinking was completely out of line. I was planning on a buy-write after earnings, but I haven't looked into the mini options yet.(not comfortable committing to 100 shares at this point)
Yeah, it's a lot of jack for 100 shares which is why I use spreads. Good luck on the options play. Depending on the size of the dividend increase I think it could see a considerable boost, especially if it's at or below this level. Just something to consider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Said a different way, they went from being proactive to reactive. Sign of fat, rich and happy management team. No CEO should flip the bird at shareholders like Tim Cook has, mocking efforts some have made to increase value as 'silly.' He is getting all the b*tch slapping he deserves and will continue to get hammered until he leaves tail between his legs and shamed.
Cook is certainly not "flip(ing) the bird at shareholders". Heck, I still don't think Apple should've offered a dividend. If people don't want to invest in Apple, too bad for them. Giving into Wall Street demands takes the emphasis off of creating the world's most desirable tech and onto the desires of bean counters and short-term, spineless short-term "investors" and weasel "analysts".
Fact is people, at least some people, wish to have a revolution every six month!
I think it's the end of a cycle, of a business logic. Apple is rethinking its strategy and they need some time to do it.
Does anyone remember how long we had to wait for the "White" Iphone? Jobs was never satisfied with the quality so it got postponed again and again. I was in the Apple Store the other day (before today's drop!) and asked an employee about the stock price, as I think most employees hold some stock. He sort of rolled his eyes and said that's wall street. Then we spoke of the new apple TV. He intimated that Apple just won't release any new product until they are absolutely satisfied with it's quality. And it did remind me of the White Iphone, which at the time made me nuts since I had to wait over a year for it. But my white iphone is perfect, and was worth the wait, and the quality of the color has held up to lot's of abuse. So here's hoping something has been postponed because the people Jobs trained and worked with are not completely satisfied.
Here's another gem. Does anyone believe this guy that he has his fortune tied to Apple's stock value? That he just loves his Apple products?
He is drooling over his vision of Apple's destruction. Fake fake fake.
Uhhhhhmmmm, buy Cirrus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Cook is certainly not "flip(ing) the bird at shareholders". Heck, I still don't think Apple should've offered a dividend. If people don't want to invest in Apple, too bad for them. Giving into Wall Street demands takes the emphasis off of creating the world's most desirable tech and onto the desires of bean counters and short-term, spineless short-term "investors" and weasel "analysts".
Talk about incoherent rambling. How paying a dividend takes the focus off anything is a difficult thought process to follow. That last sentence is just a mess, but good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Said a different way, they went from being proactive to reactive. Sign of fat, rich and happy management team. No CEO should flip the bird at shareholders like Tim Cook has, mocking efforts some have made to increase value as 'silly.' He is getting all the b*tch slapping he deserves and will continue to get hammered until he leaves tail between his legs and shamed.
Oh, please shut the **** up. Every single one of your posts in every thread in this forum is a variation of the above. How much of a failure Cook is. You're a broken, boring record. Find a new trolling meme, or better yet, find a new hobby. Cook has never flipped the bird at shareholders. Steve Jobs did, and did that harm the company? No. Today could not have provided more clear evidence that the stock drops consist of insane investor/analyst reactions making sensational assumptions to completely bullshit stories as this Cirrus one. Yet, you still pretend that it's directly because of how much Tim Cook is hated. Stop projecting your hatred unto everyone else.