It should be optional. If the App is free, I am not purchasing it. Passwords are needed when money is involved, so the harm for allowing password free purchases would be limited.
Yes, you are. You are exchanging information with a developer and agreeing to in-app services and connections. It doesn't matter about the "cost", Apple wants you to be aware of what you are doing by installing any app on your device that may tap into your info/location/photos. It wouldn't be the first time a simple app added "location" or "photography" features through an update. After an app is installed and say it needs access to your photos, an "ok" allows it, not a password. That security needs to be at the beginning or else you are entering your password a bunch of times on launch.
They are dragging their heels on NFC because it's still not secure enough not to get fooled. Cases have been shown where NFC was used to hijack phones (http://thenextweb.com/google/2012/09/19/security-researchers-hack-android-via-nfc-samsung-galaxy-s-iii/). Why do you think Apple got AuthenTech? NFC as it is has proven it to be convenient but hackable. Apple wants to take the time to create a method that locks it down further while distinguishing it from competitors. That's a good thing and should happen more often.
On that point, knowing what to adopt and what you can improve is a strong suit of Apple's. It's funny you are making it sound like a fault. They adopted most modern tech we take for granted before any of their competitors made them main-stays. USB, CD burning, WiFi, Bluetooth, HTML5, SSD - just to name a few. None of which Apple created but all of which Apple incorporated into their full lineup well before competitors did usually while phasing out established tech that in some cases they created or had a hand in creating. That being said you can't just license any and every solution out there (that's what's happening to every android manufacturer out there not called Samsung) and differentiate yourself as well. There is more to tech advancement beyond just a spec race.
I agree with you on all but CD burning. Apple was late to the game with CD burning. Jobs even said as much when introducing iTunes. Your point still stands. People complain when Apple rushes, like with Maps, but also complain when it takes its time. You can also add LTE to your list. Competitors had LTE phones out a year before Apple, but they required two chips to functionand their battery life wasdismal. Apple waited until newer tech placed the two chips into one thereby improving battery life. Most of the time, Apple knows what it is doing.
The greatest challenge for mobile payments (Bluetooth, NFC) in my opinion is that mobile payments do not necessary provide any benefit to the user. Typically, using a smartphone to pay isn't any easier than using a credit card. Unfortunately, this design patent doesn't change that inconvenience. I must still have my smartphone in my hand and interact with another human and device. Of course, this may be the unsung genius of Passbook as Passbook rather than mobile payments can provide an incentive for using mobile payments rather than credit cards.
I agree with you on all but CD burning. Apple was late to the game with CD burning. Jobs even said as much when introducing iTunes. Your point still stands. People complain when Apple rushes, like with Maps, but also complain when it takes its time. You can also add LTE to your list. Competitors had LTE phones out a year before Apple, but they required two chips to functionand their battery life wasdismal. Apple waited until newer tech placed the two chips into one thereby improving battery life. Most of the time, Apple knows what it is doing.
No, CD Burning was an add-on for win boxes at the time. Again, I'm not talking "tech for spec", the addition of bleeding edge tech to show off on a spec sheet but without using it as a means to solve a problem. I'm talking about tech as a solution. Apple was the first to use CD Burners as a line wide replacement for floppies. You are right about LTE, totally true.
Yes, you are. You are exchanging information with a developer and agreeing to in-app services and connections. It doesn't matter about the "cost", Apple wants you to be aware of what you are doing by installing any app on your device that may tap into your info/location/photos. After an app is installed and say it needs access to your photos, an "ok" allows it, not a password. That security needs to be at the beginning or else you are entering your password a bunch of times on launch.
I don't disagree with what Apple's motivation may be. However, my phone is set to not allow in app purchases, and as you mention after the install, you have to agree to other things like push notifications. When a store gives you free samples, you don't have to give it your credit card number to get the samples.
If somebody steals your phone, assuming it is not password protected, they already have access to lots of personal information including all the things you mentioned. I find the possibility of being compromised by a theft of my phone too remote to justify the password for free apps, hence me thinking it should be optional.
No, CD Burning was an add-on for win boxes at the time. Again, I'm not talking "tech for spec", the addition of bleeding edge tech to show off on a spec sheet but without using it as a means to solve a problem. I'm talking about tech as a solution. Apple was the first to use CD Burners as a line wide replacement for floppies. You are right about LTE, totally true.
I am not sure I disagree about CD burning being an add on for Window boxes. That was certainly true in some cases. I remember being able to get quite a few Window boxes with the burner built in. For my Mac Tower, purchased right after Jobs came back to Apple, I had an external CD burner.
You, however, make a great point that I didn't think about concerning getting rid of floppies while embracing CD burners. Lots of folks made a big deal about that at the time. Others like Dell and HP eventually followed suit.
One area I was surprised concerning Apple's reluctance to embrace the new was with Safari. Jobs introduced Safari Beta 4 with tabs ontop (e.g. like Chrome). He said it was great. Surveys showed that about half the people loved it, and half hated it. In the beta you could keep the tabs on top or put them on the bottom. Yet, when the final product shipped, Apple not only removed the tabs from the top, but removed the option to put them where you wanted. Now every browser but Safari has moved to tabs ontop.
It should be optional. If the App is free, I am not purchasing it. Passwords are needed when money is involved, so the harm for allowing password free purchases would be limited.
This is how people get viruses because they can't be bothered to enter a password for their own safety. How many free apps do you download a day that it's such a major inconvenience for you?
The greatest challenge for mobile payments (Bluetooth, NFC) in my opinion is that mobile payments do not necessary provide any benefit to the user. Typically, using a smartphone to pay isn't any easier than using a credit card. Unfortunately, this design patent doesn't change that inconvenience. I must still have my smartphone in my hand and interact with another human and device. Of course, this may be the unsung genius of Passbook as Passbook rather than mobile payments can provide an incentive for using mobile payments rather than credit cards.
I'm not sure how else you buy things. Without something in your hand how would you know you bought something when you did and not 5 minutes earlier and not what you wanted? Without interacting with another human or device, how would you know you had a secure transaction, or that it even happen at all?
I have NFC on my card and I like tapping for lunch, especially since I don't have to count change. When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt. Now if they could make it more secure (and I think that the AuthenTech acquire will remedy that) then I would be confident in using it to make bigger purchases (above $20). Then Apple would rule my wallet. Long game.
yeah, especially those that jumped on the iMac when it first came out. Floppy? Gone. Serial Ports? Gone. Expansion bays? Gone. Dedicated removable video card? Gone. Module design? Gone. Its crazy to think that is now just a modern-day laptop.
In many ways the original iMac was a precursor to the Mac Book Air.
I'm not sure how else you buy things. Without something in your hand how would you know you bought something when you did and not 5 minutes earlier and not what you wanted? Without interacting with another human or device, how would you know you had a secure transaction, or that it even happen at all?
I have NFC on my card and I like tapping for lunch, especially since I don't have to count change. When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt. Now if they could make it more secure (and I think that the AuthenTech acquire will remedy that) then I would be confident in using it to make bigger purchases (above $20). Then Apple would rule my wallet. Long game.
"When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt."
That isn't unique to NFC and isn't very convenient as you must still have something in your hand to "tap." In fact, an argument could be made that "tapping" with your card is more convenient than using a smartphone for mobile payments.
I am not suggesting that I have an answer to the issue but you really only proved my point, which is that mobile payments aren't really any more convenient. Mobile payments on smartphones (Bluetooth, NFC) is a solution in search of a problem to solve.
One area I was surprised concerning Apple's reluctance to embrace the new was with Safari. Jobs introduced Safari Beta 4 with tabs ontop (e.g. like Chrome). He said it was great. Surveys showed that about half the people loved it, and half hated it. In the beta you could keep the tabs on top or put them on the bottom. Yet, when the final product shipped, Apple not only removed the tabs from the top, but removed the option to put them where you wanted. Now every browser but Safari has moved to tabs ontop.
I think it was just a "branding" by UI sort of thing. I'm only speaking personally but if resolutions hadn't increased they way they did at the time I would have loved to hold of the precious real estate, but since they trimmed down so much of what goes for UI in Safari keeping that functionality didn't do a whole lot to save space but DID look like they were following. Granted, it is a nice piece of UI on the mobile browser but I don't even think about it on the desktop. That's just me though.
This is how people get viruses because they can't be bothered to enter a password for their own safety. How many free apps do you download a day that it's such a major inconvenience for you?
A password doesn't prevent owner screwups.
Owners don't need passwords. The only reason to have a password for free app install, is if you give your device to kids or "friends".
Every device should have "I'm loaning this to someone" mode, that automatically locks out everything you've previously checked off for that mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap
I have NFC on my card and I like tapping for lunch, especially since I don't have to count change. When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt.
As I've mentioned before, my daughter in Florida loved paying with NFC, especially when her son was very young and had to be carried everywhere. She usually had him in one arm, and her phone in the other hand.
She used NFC for gas, coffee, fast food, CVS pharmacy, Home Depot, etc.
"When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt."
That isn't unique to NFC and isn't very convenient as you must still have something in your hand to "tap." In fact, an argument could be made that "tapping" with your card is more convenient than using a smartphone for mobile payments.
I am not suggesting that I have an answer to the issue but you really only proved my point, which is that mobile payments aren't really any more convenient. Mobile payments on smartphones (Bluetooth, NFC) is a solution in search of a problem to solve.
Sure it is! I never carry cash so it is convenient to tap and go rather than take out cash for less than 5 dollar purchase. I don't have to worry about change so the transaction is quicker (both in receiving the change and organizing it after to get out of the way), plus I can also make the argument that I save money as I no longer have change to lose track of (lost funds, according to my online banking). As awesome as that all is, my NFC-attributed card doesn't give me an instant notification that the process went through. It doesn't alert me that someone in the restaurant is trying to hack it with bluetooth. All things that a smartphone could do if securly connected.
I have a wallet/iPhone case (http://twelvesouth.com/products/bookbook_iphone/) that I always have near me when out and around and I have yet to find myself in a situation where I haven't had "something to tap". If anything, the only problem I have encountered is that I haven't found something to tap to. Hopefully that is changing, especially when Apple gets in on it.
Sure it is! I never carry cash so it is convenient to tap and go rather than take out cash for less than 5 dollar purchase. I don't have to worry about change so the transaction is quicker (both in receiving the change and organizing it after to get out of the way), plus I can also make the argument that I save money as I no longer have change to lose track of (lost funds, according to my online banking).
As awesome as that all is, my NFC-attributed card doesn't give me an instant notification that the process went through. It doesn't alert me that someone in the restaurant is trying to hack it with bluetooth. All things that a smartphone could do if securly connected.
The second part you quoted is how a smartphone would improve the process. I'll add it again for context:
Quote:
As awesome as that all is, my NFC-attributed card doesn't give me an instant notification that the process went through. It doesn't alert me that someone in the restaurant is trying to hack it with bluetooth. All things that a smartphone could do if securely connected.
I would also add that the phone could alert you to low funds, give you the ability to tag a purchase for review latter if you think you may have been double-charged... In fact, I can't see how it couldn't be improved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Your credit card has Bluetooth?
No, it has NFC. I'm not sure what it's called in the states (probably changes from bank to bank) but my bank here in Canada calls it "PayPass". The CC has a chip like many others that induces a secure transaction by being inserted in a terminal but it also has NFC in the same chip for wireless transactions. It pull double duty in case the terminal only accepts a chip/swipe.
I would also add that the phone could alert you to low funds, give you the ability to tag a purchase for review latter if you think you may have been double-charged... In fact, I can't see how it couldn't be improved.
None of that is the actual process of paying. The process of making the payment is the only area in which I claimed there is a major issue.
No, it has NFC. I'm not sure what it's called in the states (probably changes from bank to bank) but my bank here in Canada calls it "PayPass". The CC has a chip like many others that induces a secure transaction by being inserted in a terminal but it also has NFC in the same chip for wireless transactions. It pull double duty in case the terminal only accepts a chip/swipe.
You implied that your credit card has Bluetooth by suggesting that you couldn't be hacked. The transaction is not secure which is the other major issue with mobile payments.
None of that is the actual process of paying. The process of making the payment is the only area in which I claimed there is a major issue.
I disagree, I don't see a major issue at all as the process of paying is still familiar. I go to a merchant, find something i want and instigate a secure transaction. That won't change until the laws of commerce change and that is a lot to ask a phone to do. I don't see the issue and I think calling it a major one is overblown. How do you see it going down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
You implied that your credit card has Bluetooth by suggesting that you couldn't be hacked. The transaction is not secure which is the other major issue with mobile payments.
No, if you go back I didn't say my card couldn't be hacked, exactly the opposite, I said it could be hacked by someone using Bluetooth. I guess I didn't explain myself. I meant using a Bluetooth device with an NFC loader board. I never meant to imply my card had bluetooth. Yes, we are both in agreement that NFC transactions, as they are, are not very secure, at least not as secure as they could be which is why I'd be interested in seeing what apples Authentec implementation could do to benifit that.
That isn't unique to NFC and isn't very convenient as you must still have something in your hand to "tap." In fact, an argument could be made that "tapping" with your card is more convenient than using a smartphone for mobile payments.
Tapping with a card requires carrying the card and probably pulling it out of a wallet. But you're right... NFC on a phone is just another version of convenience; you don't have to use it, any more than you have to use a credit card.
As time goes on, more and more (especially young) people seem to carry a smartphone, but no watch and probably would want no wallet either.
Already we see those Geico commercials with the electronic insurance card on the pig's phone; one day our driver's license will be digital as well, and we can all stop carrying wallets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
You implied that your credit card has Bluetooth by suggesting that you couldn't be hacked. The transaction is not secure which is the other major issue with mobile payments.
How is an NFC transaction not secure? (Are you repeating an internet myth?)
Phone NFC is actually safer than a card, since there's a rather low limit (~$25 at many places) before you must use a PIN... whereas a stolen credit card can be used right away to buy hundreds of dollars of stuff.
Heck, all a thief often needs is the NUMBER from a credit card to make another card or to order things. You cannot steal the number in a secure NFC transaction.
I disagree, I don't see a major issue at all as the process of paying is still familiar. I go to a merchant, find something i want and instigate a secure transaction. That won't change until the laws of commerce change and that is a lot to ask a phone to do. I don't see the issue and I think calling it a major one is overblown. How do you see it going down?
I just do not see a compelling reason for the majority of the population to prefer mobile payments on a smartphone to the multitude of alternatives especially given that the act of paying itself isn't fundamentally better.
It doesn't alert me that someone in the restaurant is trying to hack it with bluetooth. All things that a smartphone could do if securly connected.
As you stated, your credit card doesn't have Bluetooth. As a result an alert that someone is "hack[ing] it with bluetooth" is unnecessary.
I simply do not see anything that will compel the majority of the populace to use mobile payments on smartphones. Certainly, there are advantages but the process of paying isn't disrupted.
This makes me wonder if there are any usage statistics for Passbook.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
It should be optional. If the App is free, I am not purchasing it. Passwords are needed when money is involved, so the harm for allowing password free purchases would be limited.
Yes, you are. You are exchanging information with a developer and agreeing to in-app services and connections. It doesn't matter about the "cost", Apple wants you to be aware of what you are doing by installing any app on your device that may tap into your info/location/photos. It wouldn't be the first time a simple app added "location" or "photography" features through an update. After an app is installed and say it needs access to your photos, an "ok" allows it, not a password. That security needs to be at the beginning or else you are entering your password a bunch of times on launch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap
They are dragging their heels on NFC because it's still not secure enough not to get fooled. Cases have been shown where NFC was used to hijack phones (http://thenextweb.com/google/2012/09/19/security-researchers-hack-android-via-nfc-samsung-galaxy-s-iii/). Why do you think Apple got AuthenTech? NFC as it is has proven it to be convenient but hackable. Apple wants to take the time to create a method that locks it down further while distinguishing it from competitors. That's a good thing and should happen more often.
On that point, knowing what to adopt and what you can improve is a strong suit of Apple's. It's funny you are making it sound like a fault. They adopted most modern tech we take for granted before any of their competitors made them main-stays. USB, CD burning, WiFi, Bluetooth, HTML5, SSD - just to name a few. None of which Apple created but all of which Apple incorporated into their full lineup well before competitors did usually while phasing out established tech that in some cases they created or had a hand in creating. That being said you can't just license any and every solution out there (that's what's happening to every android manufacturer out there not called Samsung) and differentiate yourself as well. There is more to tech advancement beyond just a spec race.
I agree with you on all but CD burning. Apple was late to the game with CD burning. Jobs even said as much when introducing iTunes. Your point still stands. People complain when Apple rushes, like with Maps, but also complain when it takes its time. You can also add LTE to your list. Competitors had LTE phones out a year before Apple, but they required two chips to function and their battery life was dismal. Apple waited until newer tech placed the two chips into one thereby improving battery life. Most of the time, Apple knows what it is doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
I agree with you on all but CD burning. Apple was late to the game with CD burning. Jobs even said as much when introducing iTunes. Your point still stands. People complain when Apple rushes, like with Maps, but also complain when it takes its time. You can also add LTE to your list. Competitors had LTE phones out a year before Apple, but they required two chips to function and their battery life was dismal. Apple waited until newer tech placed the two chips into one thereby improving battery life. Most of the time, Apple knows what it is doing.
No, CD Burning was an add-on for win boxes at the time. Again, I'm not talking "tech for spec", the addition of bleeding edge tech to show off on a spec sheet but without using it as a means to solve a problem. I'm talking about tech as a solution. Apple was the first to use CD Burners as a line wide replacement for floppies. You are right about LTE, totally true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap
Yes, you are. You are exchanging information with a developer and agreeing to in-app services and connections. It doesn't matter about the "cost", Apple wants you to be aware of what you are doing by installing any app on your device that may tap into your info/location/photos. After an app is installed and say it needs access to your photos, an "ok" allows it, not a password. That security needs to be at the beginning or else you are entering your password a bunch of times on launch.
I don't disagree with what Apple's motivation may be. However, my phone is set to not allow in app purchases, and as you mention after the install, you have to agree to other things like push notifications. When a store gives you free samples, you don't have to give it your credit card number to get the samples.
If somebody steals your phone, assuming it is not password protected, they already have access to lots of personal information including all the things you mentioned. I find the possibility of being compromised by a theft of my phone too remote to justify the password for free apps, hence me thinking it should be optional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap
No, CD Burning was an add-on for win boxes at the time. Again, I'm not talking "tech for spec", the addition of bleeding edge tech to show off on a spec sheet but without using it as a means to solve a problem. I'm talking about tech as a solution. Apple was the first to use CD Burners as a line wide replacement for floppies. You are right about LTE, totally true.
I am not sure I disagree about CD burning being an add on for Window boxes. That was certainly true in some cases. I remember being able to get quite a few Window boxes with the burner built in. For my Mac Tower, purchased right after Jobs came back to Apple, I had an external CD burner.
You, however, make a great point that I didn't think about concerning getting rid of floppies while embracing CD burners. Lots of folks made a big deal about that at the time. Others like Dell and HP eventually followed suit.
One area I was surprised concerning Apple's reluctance to embrace the new was with Safari. Jobs introduced Safari Beta 4 with tabs on top (e.g. like Chrome). He said it was great. Surveys showed that about half the people loved it, and half hated it. In the beta you could keep the tabs on top or put them on the bottom. Yet, when the final product shipped, Apple not only removed the tabs from the top, but removed the option to put them where you wanted. Now every browser but Safari has moved to tabs on top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
It should be optional. If the App is free, I am not purchasing it. Passwords are needed when money is involved, so the harm for allowing password free purchases would be limited.
This is how people get viruses because they can't be bothered to enter a password for their own safety. How many free apps do you download a day that it's such a major inconvenience for you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
The greatest challenge for mobile payments (Bluetooth, NFC) in my opinion is that mobile payments do not necessary provide any benefit to the user. Typically, using a smartphone to pay isn't any easier than using a credit card. Unfortunately, this design patent doesn't change that inconvenience. I must still have my smartphone in my hand and interact with another human and device. Of course, this may be the unsung genius of Passbook as Passbook rather than mobile payments can provide an incentive for using mobile payments rather than credit cards.
I'm not sure how else you buy things. Without something in your hand how would you know you bought something when you did and not 5 minutes earlier and not what you wanted? Without interacting with another human or device, how would you know you had a secure transaction, or that it even happen at all?
I have NFC on my card and I like tapping for lunch, especially since I don't have to count change. When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt. Now if they could make it more secure (and I think that the AuthenTech acquire will remedy that) then I would be confident in using it to make bigger purchases (above $20). Then Apple would rule my wallet. Long game.
yeah, especially those that jumped on the iMac when it first came out. Floppy? Gone. Serial Ports? Gone. Expansion bays? Gone. Dedicated removable video card? Gone. Module design? Gone. Its crazy to think that is now just a modern-day laptop.
In many ways the original iMac was a precursor to the Mac Book Air.
"When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt."
That isn't unique to NFC and isn't very convenient as you must still have something in your hand to "tap." In fact, an argument could be made that "tapping" with your card is more convenient than using a smartphone for mobile payments.
I am not suggesting that I have an answer to the issue but you really only proved my point, which is that mobile payments aren't really any more convenient. Mobile payments on smartphones (Bluetooth, NFC) is a solution in search of a problem to solve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
One area I was surprised concerning Apple's reluctance to embrace the new was with Safari. Jobs introduced Safari Beta 4 with tabs on top (e.g. like Chrome). He said it was great. Surveys showed that about half the people loved it, and half hated it. In the beta you could keep the tabs on top or put them on the bottom. Yet, when the final product shipped, Apple not only removed the tabs from the top, but removed the option to put them where you wanted. Now every browser but Safari has moved to tabs on top.
I think it was just a "branding" by UI sort of thing. I'm only speaking personally but if resolutions hadn't increased they way they did at the time I would have loved to hold of the precious real estate, but since they trimmed down so much of what goes for UI in Safari keeping that functionality didn't do a whole lot to save space but DID look like they were following. Granted, it is a nice piece of UI on the mobile browser but I don't even think about it on the desktop. That's just me though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
This is how people get viruses because they can't be bothered to enter a password for their own safety. How many free apps do you download a day that it's such a major inconvenience for you?
A password doesn't prevent owner screwups.
Owners don't need passwords. The only reason to have a password for free app install, is if you give your device to kids or "friends".
Every device should have "I'm loaning this to someone" mode, that automatically locks out everything you've previously checked off for that mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap
I have NFC on my card and I like tapping for lunch, especially since I don't have to count change. When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt.
As I've mentioned before, my daughter in Florida loved paying with NFC, especially when her son was very young and had to be carried everywhere. She usually had him in one arm, and her phone in the other hand.
She used NFC for gas, coffee, fast food, CVS pharmacy, Home Depot, etc.
If only more grocery stores accepted it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
"When I whiz though the checkout line for lunch I still get looks of disbelief that I'm not entering a pin, not signing anything, i have no change to fumble with and don't need a receipt."
That isn't unique to NFC and isn't very convenient as you must still have something in your hand to "tap." In fact, an argument could be made that "tapping" with your card is more convenient than using a smartphone for mobile payments.
I am not suggesting that I have an answer to the issue but you really only proved my point, which is that mobile payments aren't really any more convenient. Mobile payments on smartphones (Bluetooth, NFC) is a solution in search of a problem to solve.
Sure it is! I never carry cash so it is convenient to tap and go rather than take out cash for less than 5 dollar purchase. I don't have to worry about change so the transaction is quicker (both in receiving the change and organizing it after to get out of the way), plus I can also make the argument that I save money as I no longer have change to lose track of (lost funds, according to my online banking). As awesome as that all is, my NFC-attributed card doesn't give me an instant notification that the process went through. It doesn't alert me that someone in the restaurant is trying to hack it with bluetooth. All things that a smartphone could do if securly connected.
I have a wallet/iPhone case (http://twelvesouth.com/products/bookbook_iphone/) that I always have near me when out and around and I have yet to find myself in a situation where I haven't had "something to tap". If anything, the only problem I have encountered is that I haven't found something to tap to. Hopefully that is changing, especially when Apple gets in on it.
How does a smartphone improve upon this process?
Your credit card has Bluetooth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
How does a smartphone improve upon this process?
The second part you quoted is how a smartphone would improve the process. I'll add it again for context:
Quote:
As awesome as that all is, my NFC-attributed card doesn't give me an instant notification that the process went through. It doesn't alert me that someone in the restaurant is trying to hack it with bluetooth. All things that a smartphone could do if securely connected.
I would also add that the phone could alert you to low funds, give you the ability to tag a purchase for review latter if you think you may have been double-charged... In fact, I can't see how it couldn't be improved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Your credit card has Bluetooth?
No, it has NFC. I'm not sure what it's called in the states (probably changes from bank to bank) but my bank here in Canada calls it "PayPass". The CC has a chip like many others that induces a secure transaction by being inserted in a terminal but it also has NFC in the same chip for wireless transactions. It pull double duty in case the terminal only accepts a chip/swipe.
None of that is the actual process of paying. The process of making the payment is the only area in which I claimed there is a major issue.
You implied that your credit card has Bluetooth by suggesting that you couldn't be hacked. The transaction is not secure which is the other major issue with mobile payments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
None of that is the actual process of paying. The process of making the payment is the only area in which I claimed there is a major issue.
I disagree, I don't see a major issue at all as the process of paying is still familiar. I go to a merchant, find something i want and instigate a secure transaction. That won't change until the laws of commerce change and that is a lot to ask a phone to do. I don't see the issue and I think calling it a major one is overblown. How do you see it going down?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
You implied that your credit card has Bluetooth by suggesting that you couldn't be hacked. The transaction is not secure which is the other major issue with mobile payments.
No, if you go back I didn't say my card couldn't be hacked, exactly the opposite, I said it could be hacked by someone using Bluetooth. I guess I didn't explain myself. I meant using a Bluetooth device with an NFC loader board. I never meant to imply my card had bluetooth. Yes, we are both in agreement that NFC transactions, as they are, are not very secure, at least not as secure as they could be which is why I'd be interested in seeing what apples Authentec implementation could do to benifit that.
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Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
That isn't unique to NFC and isn't very convenient as you must still have something in your hand to "tap." In fact, an argument could be made that "tapping" with your card is more convenient than using a smartphone for mobile payments.
Tapping with a card requires carrying the card and probably pulling it out of a wallet. But you're right... NFC on a phone is just another version of convenience; you don't have to use it, any more than you have to use a credit card.
As time goes on, more and more (especially young) people seem to carry a smartphone, but no watch and probably would want no wallet either.
Already we see those Geico commercials with the electronic insurance card on the pig's phone; one day our driver's license will be digital as well, and we can all stop carrying wallets.
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Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
You implied that your credit card has Bluetooth by suggesting that you couldn't be hacked. The transaction is not secure which is the other major issue with mobile payments.
How is an NFC transaction not secure? (Are you repeating an internet myth?)
Phone NFC is actually safer than a card, since there's a rather low limit (~$25 at many places) before you must use a PIN... whereas a stolen credit card can be used right away to buy hundreds of dollars of stuff.
Heck, all a thief often needs is the NUMBER from a credit card to make another card or to order things. You cannot steal the number in a secure NFC transaction.
I just do not see a compelling reason for the majority of the population to prefer mobile payments on a smartphone to the multitude of alternatives especially given that the act of paying itself isn't fundamentally better.
As you stated, your credit card doesn't have Bluetooth. As a result an alert that someone is "hack[ing] it with bluetooth" is unnecessary.
I simply do not see anything that will compel the majority of the populace to use mobile payments on smartphones. Certainly, there are advantages but the process of paying isn't disrupted.
This makes me wonder if there are any usage statistics for Passbook.
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's by design. Please understand why.
Also by design.
Just because it's by design does NOT ensure that it's good design.