The bizarre campaign against Apple's Tim Cook

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  • Reply 141 of 220
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Got thru the whole thread...
    ...and have to do a shout-out @Slurpy: every single one of your posts were dead-on! I would suggest the Mods ask you to write for them. ;)

    Every time this TC topic has come up over the last few weeks, I just want to repeat my 100% vote of confidence for Tim. He's still the best CEO for Apple in the foreseeable future, and even the Iger fans should admit this... even if he is my #2.

    My personal lofty expectations will hopefully be born out with the upcoming WWDC and some mind-blowing iOS and OS X advances and innovations.

    It is software that will differentiate mobile devices... as well as the "trucks" necessary to develop for them. Not the fickle commodity of the devices themselves.
  • Reply 142 of 220
    daleokdaleok Posts: 1member
    If Jobs was still alive and at the helm, and given that the circumstances were the same, would he be receiving the same criticism as Cook?
  • Reply 143 of 220
    Apple is doing just fine. AAPL is not. Tim Cook is only responsible for the first.
  • Reply 144 of 220
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    The amount of value chopped off the company was probably no more than 20% of what has been lost in this recent dump.  Losing 60 billion and losing 300 billion represent different signals from the market regardless if the percentages are similar.  Losing 300 billion says management actions or inactions have materially impaired future cash flows.



     


    Listen here, bright boy, Apple does not need wall street, they do not need your pitiful shareholding, they are not in trouble, they have ample cash, they have real people working on real products they sell for real cash.


     


    Wall Street just can't handle that as far as Apple is concerned they are irrelevant.


     


    Sell out; Apple don't need you.

  • Reply 145 of 220
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    AAPL up pre-market I'm assuming based on ARM posting better than expected results.

    Tony Fadell was on CNBC this morning. Of course he was asked about Apple. Reminded people that game changing products don't come out every 6 months. Was asked if the team could hold together without Steve, he said absolutely and that he thought they were doing a great job.

    Did Fadell leave on good terms or was he basically pushed out when the iPhone overtook the iPod? I've often wondered if its possible for Apple to pick up Nest and bring Fadell back to the company, if we're looking to new product categories, new revenue streams I think home automation could be big.
  • Reply 146 of 220
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post



    Apple is doing just fine. AAPL is not. Tim Cook is only responsible for the first.


    In general, I'd disagree with that. A CEO, unfortunately, is ultimately responsible for overall operations and is also accountable to the shareholders. To say that a CEO is not responsible for a company's share price is, generally speaking, an absurd assertion. In this instance in Apple's history, however, you may be right (unintentionally). The question is how much more should/can Cook do to prop up $AAPL? More than a few people, including some here, want to see faster use of cash in the form of dividends or share buyback. I am personally against that because history has shown repeatedly, with very, very few exceptions, that such moves are effective only in the short term. 


     


    So, without using his cash reserves as described above, all Tim Cook can do is continue to manage the company as well as he can to maximize profits. He is doing that, by and large. If the stock market is punishing him for not spending the company's cash fast enough, then I hope the board holds firm in supporting him because such market reactions are bound to lose steam in time. If, however, the market is in fact prescient in predicting a true plateau for Apple, then is Cook responsible? 


     


    Some of the "advice" being tosse around are clearly ridiculous. Some say Apple needs to launch a cheaper phone. But then they fret about decreasing profit margins even before such a phone is launched. Others say Apple needs to make phones with bigger screens. But a bigger screen costs more. So, unless Apple compromises elsewhere, a bigger iPhone will again have lower margins. 

     


    The market is treating Apple irrationally right now. I believe Cook should do what Jobs did a few years ago when $AAPL also dropped 50% of its market cap - stand pat on financial manipulations and execute the product development plan. Any deviation from this course will turn Apple into any other company. Apple does not do well when it imitates others.

  • Reply 147 of 220
    aaarrrggghaaarrrgggh Posts: 1,609member
    Apple is doing just fine. AAPL is not. Tim Cook is only responsible for the first.

    The CEO is responsible for the company first and foremost, true. However, they have a responsibility to speak up and take action if the stock has a drop like they have. $700->600 I am willing to tolerate silence. By $500, I really expect executives to be buying stock as a show of confidence. At $400... well, let's hope earnings tells the story. If it doesn't though, I want to know what the company is going to do to address shareholder value.

    I have no objections to Tim, but he can't pull off Steve's ignoring shareholders game yet... he hasn't proven himself that way. If things haven't improved in another 18 months I don't think he will get to take advantage of those RSUs.
  • Reply 148 of 220

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post



    Apple is doing just fine. AAPL is not. Tim Cook is only responsible for the first.




    What??!!?  image

  • Reply 149 of 220
    macarenamacarena Posts: 365member


    While there a lot of things going right and good with Apple, there are quite a few things that are turning sour as well. I consider myself a big fan of everything Apple. However, over the last few months, I have had quite a few instances where Apple has done things that I am not happy/comfortable with. And some of these things have impacted me personally. My opinions about Apple have changed to be quite ambivalent at this point. I have probably not yet reached a stage where I am ready to ditch my iPhone for an Android, but I have to say I have thought about it several times.


     


    Let me list the things Apple has done, which have impacted me personally, and you decide for yourself whether it is right on my part to have changed my thinking about Apple. There are several other things, but there I am not impacted personally.


     


    - We build apps for iOS and Android - and about 6 months back, Apple rejected our app, saying that they would not allow recurring in-app subscriptions. We built a stock market monitoring tool, which provides real time market data and provides instantaneous news (our servers monitor the news filters you have registered for, and if there is any news matching a filter, you get an immediate Push Notification). In my mind, such a service is an obvious candidate for a recurring subscription - because the features it offers are all expensive things, and add lot of value every day. Apple said their recurring in-app subscriptions were targeted only towards companies that created periodical content like magazines etc, and not for services like what we were trying to build. When we said we also offered instant news updates, so if a company that offers daily/weekly updates can get recurring subscriptions why should we not be eligible. Apple then said - you don't create the content, you only distribute it from other sources. But we pointed out that pretty much 90% of content in any periodical is also sourced from sources like Associated Free Press, Reuters, Bloomberg, IDC, etc, and they just said - we don't have to explain anything to you, if you want the app published, you should remove recurring subscriptions. No more discussion. We had no choice but to release the app for Free, because that way at least we would make some amount of money regularly from ads!


     


    - On one of our other apps, we were rejected saying that this functionality was not using iOS capabilities, and could be done with a web app instead. This was a social site for movies, with a catalog of all current movies, where they were playing, reviews, trailers, user comments, etc. It also integrated with Location, showing route to the theater playing the movie. We had to appeal against the decision twice before someone finally saw the stupidity of what Apple was doing, and decided to allow us to publish the app.


     


    - I have an iPhone 4S that is about 16 months old. The power button does not work, and I have to use the "Accessibility feature" to lock the phone, and unlock it. But it is very difficult to reboot the phone because I can only do it by allowing battery to die. This happened about 2 months after the warranty ran out at the end of 1 year. When I took the phone in for repairs, Apple flatly refused to repair it. They said if the phone was under warranty, they would replace it, but since warranty coverage was over, they could not repair it. The only option for me would be to upgrade to the iPhone 5 - and because my phone is almost crippled without the power button, I cannot get much when I sell it too! I tried several stores, several people, all give same response. Some suggested that there are third party "fixers" who could attempt to replace the power button, but if they messed up, my phone would be bricked. This is the sort of support I get, after buying a phone paying Rs 44,500/- (about $820). Even if I am ready to pay Apple, they would not fix the phone for me. The guy told me, you should have bought Applecare, paying another Rs 5,500/-. I asked him if that covers everything - he said it covers everything overseas, but in India it does not cover anything if the phone has signs of water damage, or cracked glass, etc. In India, only manufacturing defects would be covered - whereas overseas, Applecare works more like an insurance, so Apple replaces the phone with a refurbished model, no questions asked, whatever the issue.


     


    This is what Indians get, despite paying probably the highest prices anywhere in the world for the iPhone! I know most of the high prices are because of taxes but from a customers point of view, this is not how you expect to be treated when you buy a premium product. Apple still makes its 40% margins, despite however high Indian taxes are! Cant they provide decent customer service after taking these sort of margins?


     


    For a company that has such high profit margins, and such a massive mountain of cash, they could probably do better when it comes to customer support policies. To be fair, Indian operations of Apple are handled through the Reliance iStore and the Imagine Store - not directly by Apple. But Apple should be aware of the policies followed by its partners and should take care that the partners don't spoil Apple's name and image in India!


     


    Over the last 4-5 months, we have stopped developing for iOS native. We decided that we would rather develop using PhoneGap or RhoMobile, and release the app on both iOS and Android, rather than take the risk with Apple's random policies. We have now realized - especially after using RhoMobile, that this is actually better off for us, as we can target all platforms with a single codebase, without sacrificing performance too much.


     


    What an irony, that Motorola (and therefore, Google), have probably created the best development environment to protect iOS developers from the vagaries of Apple's policies! Of course, Apple being Apple, they will probably not allow apps developed in RhoMobile, but that would probably attract way too much regulatory attention.


     


    From being a big fan of Apple, I have reached a point where I hope Apple gets a major rap on the knuckles on one of its court cases, or from the regulators, because of anti-competitive policies or anti-consumer policies, etc. I have started thinking that Apple has way too much power in the market, and it is probably good if someone, either Samsung or Google, or regulators, do something to significantly clip Apple's wings.


     


    I think many people would agree, that an Apple that is more an underdog, is a better Apple for all of us. This company makes MS look like boy scouts with their policies. We would'nt really enjoy Apple much, if Apple has a strong position in the market.

  • Reply 150 of 220
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member

    What??!!?  :rolleyes:

    The CEO's responsibility is to make the company effective. It's not his job to manipulate the company day-to-day or week-to-week for short term jumps in the stock value.
  • Reply 150 of 220
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member

    What??!!?  :rolleyes:

    The CEO's responsibility is to make the company effective. It's not his job to manipulate the company day-to-day or week-to-week for short term jumps in the stock value.
  • Reply 152 of 220
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    The CEO's responsibility is to make the company effective. It's not his job to manipulate the company day-to-day or week-to-week for short term jumps in the stock value.


     


    ...or month to month or year to year.... You are just wrong.

  • Reply 153 of 220

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by macarena View Post


    I consider myself a big fan of everything Apple. However, ....


     


    Apple rejected our app, saying that they would not allow recurring in-app subscriptions. We built a stock market monitoring tool, which provides real time market data and provides instantaneous news .....


     


    - On one of our other apps, we were rejected ..... We had to appeal against the decision twice before someone finally saw the stupidity of what Apple was doing, and decided to allow us to publish the app......


     


    - I have an iPhone 4S that is about 16 months old. The power button does not work.....



    (I am cutting and pasting just a few relevant parts, since your post rambles on.....)


     


    Whine, whine, whine.


     


    1) "Big fan of Apple, however.....". Big giveaway.


     


    2) Apple has had unambiguous policies regarding in-app subscriptions. If you didn't bother to check that before you wasted your resources developing the app -- or thought you'd go ahead anyway, and take your chances -- that's your foolishness. Perhaps you can explain why and how Apple continues to have the largest app ecosystem if developers are having so many problems?


     


    Incidentally, your stock market app sounds like a pathetic me-too product. There's a sea of them out there (check out, e.g., Bloomberg; Schwab -- both brilliantly implemented).


     


    3) Your movie app got accepted. So what are you whining about? (In any event, it sounds like another me-too product. Check out IMDB and how it's been implemented -- again, brilliant).


     


    4) Buy the frackin' protection plan the next time. It's there for a reason. Otherwise you get what you get, which Apple tells you about up front, and it is a function of what local laws require. Live with it. (Perhaps you can explain why the iPhone has, by far, the highest customer satisfaction ratings?)

  • Reply 154 of 220

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post


    Well let's see: the stock has been in a relative free-fall since peaking around the release of the iPhone 5, multiple reports of sales, stock, and revenue not meeting expectations, and going on what, 8 months now without a single new product or announcement.


     


    While I feel bad for Cook in that it's true the positives outweigh the negatives, and that this wouldn't be a problem if it were any other company and not Apple, it's not any other company and it IS Apple. Fair or not, the public and the market both hold Tim and the company both to a higher standard. Frankly, the longer this slide goes on, the clearer it becomes to me that Ive should have taken the big chair, and Cook should have stayed where he was and continued on as the logistics guy. One can only wonder if that supply chain problems that have plagued the iMac line and recently the iPhone line (8 million defectives returned to Foxconn? What's that about, and who is getting fired over that screw up?) had Cook been focused on what he does best instead of trying to replicate what Jobs and to a lesser extent Ive apparently do naturally.



     


    Legitimate points made here.

  • Reply 155 of 220
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    The CEO's responsibility is to make the company effective. It's not his job to manipulate the company day-to-day or week-to-week for short term jumps in the stock value.


    I wish you were completely right.


     


    Week to week? No investor (except for day traders) or CEO should be concerned. But over medium to long term, a CEO is indeed responsible for a stock's performance, even if the balance sheets are otherwise just fine.

  • Reply 156 of 220
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    stelligent wrote: »
    I wish you were completely right.

    Week to week? No investor (except for day traders) or CEO should be concerned. But over medium to long term, a CEO is indeed responsible for a stock's performance, even if the balance sheets are otherwise just fine.
    How does Apple shake the damn day traders? I think they're more responsible for the current stock decline than anyone else.
  • Reply 157 of 220

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    The CEO's responsibility is to make the company effective. It's not his job to manipulate the company day-to-day or week-to-week for short term jumps in the stock value.




    Who the f*ck is talking about day to day or week to week. You talk as if $700 to $400 happened overnight.


     


    If the company is not run effectively then the stock goes down... just as the stock will go up if the company is run properly.


     


    Of course the CEO is responsible for the stock price. Many a CEO has received a boot in the ass for losing shareholder value.


     


    Right now shareholders don't seem to have faith in the long term picture for Apple.

  • Reply 158 of 220
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

    ... and if the company is not run effectively then the stock goes down...


     


    And that's the only reason for the stock to go down?

  • Reply 159 of 220

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    How does Apple shake the damn day traders? I think they're more responsible for the current stock decline than anyone else.




    When AAPL is 70% owned by institutions?


     


    The term "day traders" should give you an idea of their effectiveness at moving a stock's price.


     


    [remember, it took 7 months to go from $700 to where we are now)

  • Reply 160 of 220
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    And that's the only reason for the stock to go down?



    In the long term, yes. The only question is whether we have hit the long term yet.

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