CEO is not directly "stock price" responsible. Now, if the performance of the company (losing market share, running in the red, etc.) affect the share price negatively then yes, they are taken to task for that, with the result (a lower price) being held as part of a package of evidence that they are not doing their job well (meaning, running the company itself in a profitable and effective manner).
Where in this scenario, aside from a 'stock price' that is at odds with reality, is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities?
The stock price is less and less at odds with reality. Apple IS losing market share. They (as per yesterday's call, though maybe Tim lied?) will have a whole year without any new products. The cash pile sitting there losing inflation adjusted value every day is evidence of financial incompetence (yes, they announced a buyback, but this is (a) much worse than Einhorn's proposal and (b) they will have a BIGGER cash pile at the end of the buyback). I would say there is plenty of evidence that Cook is not providing great leadership.
FYI - not only did we read up on Apple's policies before the fact, we have also gone through it with a very fine toothcomb after the fact. Even today, 6 months after the episode, Apple does not have anything on its policies regarding who is allowed and who is not allowed to use Recurring Subscriptions. This is one of those gray areas, where Apple thinks they have to protect their customers from signing up for a subscription plan, and probably forgetting about it, and running up a $1 charge every month. And this is the same company that allowed the "I am Rich" app to be sold for $1000 - with zero functionality! I guess Apple is OK with you conning a customer for $1000 in one shot, but not OK with you taking $1 a month for a legitimate solution. (Update: there is still an "I am Rich LE" App, for $10, which still does nothing! Apparently, this sort of scam is fine with Apple!)
And whether my product is a pathetic me-too product or not, is not the point. You don't know about my product. Contrary to what you are saying, my product actually offers functionality that is significantly beyond what Bloomberg and the others offer. Just as an example, Bloomberg requires you to use their product and actively search for information and news. My product allows you to specify companies, and sectors where you are interested in news, with fairly sophisticated filters - and then the news reaches you automatically within minutes of being updated on Reuters - even if you are not using the app, and even if your iPad is not even in use. For instance, you can create a filter like "News referring to Apple and Samsung, that mentions Judge Lucy Koh, in Japanese". Pray tell me how Bloomberg and Charles Schwab allow you to do this. And FYI - my app gets its news and data from Reuters, so there is no difference in the quality of news and data from my app, compared to even Bloomberg.
And just because I have some issues with Apple, you decide to call my app a "pathetic" me-too product, without ever seeing my app, or even knowing its name. Says more about you, than it does about my app.
Yes - the movie app got accepted. But still, when there are apps out there that do nothing but fart, why is Apple so picky about an app not using iPhone features enough?
Regarding Applecare - if Apple treats Applecare as compulsory, they are already violating various consumer protection laws. They have to offer a proper option for servicing, irrespective of whatever the cost of that option is. It is Apple's fault that they haven't invested in building a service infrastructure in India, their fault that the iPhone is built in a way that makes it very difficult to service for even basic repairs. They cannot force a customer to buy Applecare to overcome issues at their end. Just go online and see the number of issues with the iPhone power button. This is a company that makes a phone with 2 buttons, and messed one up!
You have exposed yourself quite plainly in the way you responded. Just because I have changed by opinion about Apple, the whole tone of your post is so aggressive. Looks like you are taking this as a personal insult! And I am not a blind fanboy - I recognize when Apple messes up, and I don't blindly support whatever they do. Take a look at my post history, you will get an idea of my thoughts about Apple.
An excellent response! How is your experience with RhoMobile? I was just looking at using it...
Says you. His management of supply chain logistics seems pretty close to genius to me.
Says you, and a bunch of false narratives being trotted around the web with the clear intent of disparaging his immense talent. You have no basis in FACT to be saying these things, as if you KNOW them to be true. It's purely speculative supposition and opinion.
While SJ was sick he handed the reins to TC as interim CEO, and the company thrived. After SJ passed the reins permanently to TC and then eventually passed away, the company continued to thrive. In fact, the ONLY thing not "thriving" at the moment is the stock price, and that's clearly being manipulated by large-cap investors who want more of the 'cash reserve' Apple is sitting on.
I see this potential future: Those same institutional investors will attempt to drive the stock price to under $300 (could happen if Apple misses its guidance tonight). Then will buy HUGE amounts of stock, taking enough of a share to start hostile action. They'll oust Cook, initiate "preferred shares" and drain the reserve into their own pockets.
That's one possible scenario I see playing out. If it does, and the SEC does nothing, then I'll be once and for all convinced it's a rigged game…
When Jobs was sick he handed the responsibility for day to day operations to Cook. I have no doubt he (Jobs) had final approval of all products, so that is not a great argument.
They use to dominate the handset marketshare. Wait a second, I'm thinking about shit analysts and trolls make up to claim that Apple's current numbers suck but didn't ever exist. Oops!
PS: I'm tired to typing out analysts and trolls. Surely there is a single word to describe both group of asshats. Tranalyolls?
I've always thought AppleInsider has done a good job doing rational, thoughtful journalism. Reading through the forums comments today is truly disturbing and completely proves the problem the article alludes to. There are obviously a lot of shills and stock manipulators out there(and apparently long-term members of this site) and I think it is criminal and we need our laws enforced, probably new laws too but heck people need to start calling their congressmen/women to complain if somebody wants anything done. Even just an Apple fan stands to lose great products because of the machinations of a bunch of con artists.
An excellent response! How is your experience with RhoMobile? I was just looking at using it...
IMO, RhoMobile is better than PhoneGap as a cross platform tool. The performance is quite good, and speed of development is also high. In fact for some functionality, RhoMobile generates basic screens for you, and all you need to do is to change the layout, colors, etc. Basic Database Insert, Delete, Update code is taken care of for you. The best part is that it has something called RhoSync, which makes it easy to build apps that can work offline, and when internet is available, the local database is synced with the remote database.
The only thing to bear in mind is that there are some components of RhoMobile that are not free - so you need to figure out licensing. It is not very significant, but nevertheless, it is something to bear in mind, considering that there are a lot of free development tools these days.
But what I really like about RhoMobile, is that you can build iOS apps even without having a Mac! I haven't tested this feature yet, because we do have Macs!
PhoneGap on the other hand works acceptably well on iOS, but sucks on Android. We have tried several suggestions to improve performance, but it is nowhere close to what the performance is on iOS. I believe this has something to do with the fact that Nitro has now been enabled outside Safari, whereas V8 has not been enabled in WebView on Android. Android performance is much better on 4.1.x devices, but sucks on 4.0.x devices.
The masses need to settle down. Tim Cook has done great. The company rolled out a new version of almost ever product last fall. Those products are being sold great as we speak. In a few months, we will get more great updates and possibly new products. Earlier management took years to come up with a new product, they were Macs and iPods for many years. Now the iPhone to iPad leap makes everyone think that every six months, you should come out with a new zillion dollar program. If you look at Apple, they are moving their chess pieces perfectly. The infrastructure is strong and they will continue to make it stronger, all products tie into their infrastructure. Their simplicity is so powerful.
Other companies, Amazon, Samsung, Google, what-have-you, are 'moving faster' in people's minds because they are doing press releases about products that don't exist yet, or coming out with a phone that is just another plastic phone without any real innovation. Air-Gesture...whatever.
Let Apple do their thing. You can rest assured that they have a competitive spirit and what to always show the world how great their products are. They have the best mindset. Tim Cook is managing everyone perfectly.
The stock price is less and less at odds with reality. Apple IS losing market share. They (as per yesterday's call, though maybe Tim lied?) will have a whole year without any new products. The cash pile sitting there losing inflation adjusted value every day is evidence of financial incompetence (yes, they announced a buyback, but this is (a) much worse than Einhorn's proposal and (b) they will have a BIGGER cash pile at the end of the buyback). I would say there is plenty of evidence that Cook is not providing great leadership.
So, as the price and the P/E decline to ridiculous levels considering their market position, product mix, profitability and record revenue, YOU maintain it's "less and less at odds"… uh, what…?
And why are you continuing to advance this false product release narrative? Once more, then I'm not doing it again. New products in the past year:
- iPad Mini (new form factor, redesigned)
- iPad Retina Display (plus a 128GB version)
- New iPod Touch
- New iMac (redesigned)
- iPhone 5
They didn't say "We are not releasing anything new (updates or otherwise) until the fall". And if they start announcing things next quarter, that isn't "a year without any new products"… your hysteria here is reaching fairly shrill heights… (and by the way, not all "new products" will be hardware or devices. Some will be software, and services… and if you expect them to push out new product categories 'just because', then you don't understand Apple at all.)
Apple is NOT losing market share, that's RIDICULOUS. What part of your butt did you just pull that nonsense out of? Do you have any "Apple clearly losing market share" citations you can link? Credible ones? Other than paid Samsung PR "articles"? Losing share in WHAT market exactly? Tablets? Phones? Computers?
Even implying that "Tim lied" during a quarterly report call (do you realize how MASSIVE a federal crime that would be? Why on earth would they be so stupid? And if you try to seriously rationalize that, I'll write you off as a conspiracy theory nut), is only seeking to falsely cast doubt where there should be none.
Finally this: "The cash pile sitting there losing inflation adjusted value every day is evidence of financial incompetence"
I'm sorry, but do you even know what their so-called "cash pile" really is? From your description you seem to imagine a Scrooge McDuck styled vault full of cash gathering dust.
Their "cash" is mostly held as Securities, etc… in that form they EARN while they 'sit there'… typically gaining in value, and certainly not "evidence of financial incompetence". Actually, given your rant, the only financial incompetence on display here is your own...
The fact that you can toss these aspersions out so easily makes it clear you think yourself far more intelligent and superior to the people actually running Apple. I suggest you create a company like that, and run it your way. Perhaps you'll succeed in doing better than they are… *snicker
The stock price is less and less at odds with reality. Apple IS losing market share. They (as per yesterday's call, though maybe Tim lied?) will have a whole year without any new products. The cash pile sitting there losing inflation adjusted value every day is evidence of financial incompetence (yes, they announced a buyback, but this is (a) much worse than Einhorn's proposal and (b) they will have a BIGGER cash pile at the end of the buyback). I would say there is plenty of evidence that Cook is not providing great leadership.
This again...
First, you didn't answer my question: Where in this scenario, aside from a 'stock price' that is at odds with reality, is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities?
Where is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities? Your weak suppositions of financial incompetence aside…
Regarding Einhorn's proposal, what Apple decided to do was increase the buyback he proposed. By spending MORE money. How is that "worse"? And this "cash pile" you refer to is also known as a cash RESERVE, which any wise manager will tell you is a GOOD thing to have. It affords flexibility, earns income, and allows for an agile management style. Because of their cash position they're able to reserve components in advance at levels no-one else can. If they drain off that reserve, then they increase RISK, and then everyone would be complaining how risky things are and then… Apple is doomed, the management sucks we need the rest of that casshhhh…….
It's ridiculous that people think an excess in reserve is a bad thing. Only if you're not using it when you should. In this case, they're using it wisely, and I give them an enthusiastic thumbs up for it.
I'm getting the distinct impression they can do no right with you. And if they DID do what YOU think is 'right', they'd end up in a real financial pickle...
When Jobs was sick he handed the responsibility for day to day operations to Cook. I have no doubt he (Jobs) had final approval of all products, so that is not a great argument.
Aside from the fact that wasn't an argument made in a vacuum, but ALSO took into account a longer, demonstrable history…
Jobs was under the knife and recovering alongside some debilitating treatments for some months. He was completely off the grid (I know this to be true). Cook was acting CEO in every way, and supervised more than one product launch.
You can try to disparage him all you want (and cherry-pick my posts to try and advance your own narratives) but it doesn't change the facts or the broader perspective.
How about addressing my point with the rest of my "argument" included? You're disparaging Cook's reputation and using very thin suppositions to do so. It's wearying, frankly. What is your point? What is your solution? For that matter, what is the problem! (I suspect it's mostly imagined, but, hey…)
From what you've put out there, perhaps we ought to return the "cash pile" to "the shareholders", fire Cook, put Ive in the CEO chair and …. release SOMETHING-ANYTHING and SOON! ? Silly wabbit...
Some people do like to think they are riding the cluetrain...
Oh, that's right, "Apple is losing market share". Uh-huh. Somewhere is a market and Apple is losing share in it. FUD alert!!!
How about a citation? Something a bit more valid than "didn't you read 'the news' yesterday"?
What news? Specifically? The news from…. <enter new organization here> … that said that Apple is losing market share in <enter specific market space here>?
Otherwise, it's just stupid, time-wasting noise you're making...
IMO, RhoMobile is better than PhoneGap as a cross platform tool. The performance is quite good, and speed of development is also high. In fact for some functionality, RhoMobile generates basic screens for you, and all you need to do is to change the layout, colors, etc. Basic Database Insert, Delete, Update code is taken care of for you. The best part is that it has something called RhoSync, which makes it easy to build apps that can work offline, and when internet is available, the local database is synced with the remote database.
The only thing to bear in mind is that there are some components of RhoMobile that are not free - so you need to figure out licensing. It is not very significant, but nevertheless, it is something to bear in mind, considering that there are a lot of free development tools these days.
But what I really like about RhoMobile, is that you can build iOS apps even without having a Mac! I haven't tested this feature yet, because we do have Macs!
PhoneGap on the other hand works acceptably well on iOS, but sucks on Android. We have tried several suggestions to improve performance, but it is nowhere close to what the performance is on iOS. I believe this has something to do with the fact that Nitro has now been enabled outside Safari, whereas V8 has not been enabled in WebView on Android. Android performance is much better on 4.1.x devices, but sucks on 4.0.x devices.
Oh, that's right, "Apple is losing market share". Uh-huh. Somewhere is a market and Apple is losing share in it. FUD alert!!!
How about a citation? Something a bit more valid than "didn't you read 'the news' yesterday"?
What news? Specifically? The news from…. <enter new organization here> … that said that Apple is losing market share in <enter specific market space here>?
Otherwise, it's just stupid, time-wasting noise you're making...
Well, global smartphone sales are rising, Apple is guiding its sales to go DOWN next quarter. How would you describe this, other than loss of market share? Otherwise, please don't be rude, makes you look like a moron (which I am sure you are not).
Aside from the fact that wasn't an argument made in a vacuum, but ALSO took into account a longer, demonstrable history…
Jobs was under the knife and recovering alongside some debilitating treatments for some months. He was completely off the grid (I know this to be true). Cook was acting CEO in every way, and supervised more than one product launch.
You can try to disparage him all you want (and cherry-pick my posts to try and advance your own narratives) but it doesn't change the facts or the broader perspective.
How about addressing my point with the rest of my "argument" included? You're disparaging Cook's reputation and using very thin suppositions to do so. It's wearying, frankly. What is your point? What is your solution? For that matter, what is the problem! (I suspect it's mostly imagined, but, hey…)
From what you've put out there, perhaps we ought to return the "cash pile" to "the shareholders", fire Cook, put Ive in the CEO chair and …. release SOMETHING-ANYTHING and SOON! ? Silly wabbit...
Some people do like to think they are riding the cluetrain...
First, you didn't answer my question: Where in this scenario, aside from a 'stock price' that is at odds with reality, is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities?
Where is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities? Your weak suppositions of financial incompetence aside…
Regarding Einhorn's proposal, what Apple decided to do was increase the buyback he proposed. By spending MORE money. How is that "worse"? And this "cash pile" you refer to is also known as a cash RESERVE, which any wise manager will tell you is a GOOD thing to have. It affords flexibility, earns income, and allows for an agile management style. Because of their cash position they're able to reserve components in advance at levels no-one else can. If they drain off that reserve, then they increase RISK, and then everyone would be complaining how risky things are and then… Apple is doomed, the management sucks we need the rest of that casshhhh…….
It's ridiculous that people think an excess in reserve is a bad thing. Only if you're not using it when you should. In this case, they're using it wisely, and I give them an enthusiastic thumbs up for it.
I'm getting the distinct impression they can do no right with you. And if they DID do what YOU think is 'right', they'd end up in a real financial pickle...
Do you know anything about management? Apparently more than, say XOM management, because they can do with a mere $10BN cash reserve, with which they seem quite capable of buffering their enormous R&D and exploration expenses and the considerable volatility of hydrocarbon prices. Or Google, which has $50BN on their balance sheet. Or Proctor and Gamble, who have $7BN. And a million other companies which are borrowing money.
Re Einhorn's proposal, you are similarly clueless: the whole point is that one can improve stock price MORE while spending LESS money. In particular, Apple would not need to borrow a dime under the Einhorn proposal.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
CEO is not directly "stock price" responsible. Now, if the performance of the company (losing market share, running in the red, etc.) affect the share price negatively then yes, they are taken to task for that, with the result (a lower price) being held as part of a package of evidence that they are not doing their job well (meaning, running the company itself in a profitable and effective manner).
Where in this scenario, aside from a 'stock price' that is at odds with reality, is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities?
The stock price is less and less at odds with reality. Apple IS losing market share. They (as per yesterday's call, though maybe Tim lied?) will have a whole year without any new products. The cash pile sitting there losing inflation adjusted value every day is evidence of financial incompetence (yes, they announced a buyback, but this is (a) much worse than Einhorn's proposal and (b) they will have a BIGGER cash pile at the end of the buyback). I would say there is plenty of evidence that Cook is not providing great leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena
FYI - not only did we read up on Apple's policies before the fact, we have also gone through it with a very fine toothcomb after the fact. Even today, 6 months after the episode, Apple does not have anything on its policies regarding who is allowed and who is not allowed to use Recurring Subscriptions. This is one of those gray areas, where Apple thinks they have to protect their customers from signing up for a subscription plan, and probably forgetting about it, and running up a $1 charge every month. And this is the same company that allowed the "I am Rich" app to be sold for $1000 - with zero functionality! I guess Apple is OK with you conning a customer for $1000 in one shot, but not OK with you taking $1 a month for a legitimate solution. (Update: there is still an "I am Rich LE" App, for $10, which still does nothing! Apparently, this sort of scam is fine with Apple!)
And whether my product is a pathetic me-too product or not, is not the point. You don't know about my product. Contrary to what you are saying, my product actually offers functionality that is significantly beyond what Bloomberg and the others offer. Just as an example, Bloomberg requires you to use their product and actively search for information and news. My product allows you to specify companies, and sectors where you are interested in news, with fairly sophisticated filters - and then the news reaches you automatically within minutes of being updated on Reuters - even if you are not using the app, and even if your iPad is not even in use. For instance, you can create a filter like "News referring to Apple and Samsung, that mentions Judge Lucy Koh, in Japanese". Pray tell me how Bloomberg and Charles Schwab allow you to do this. And FYI - my app gets its news and data from Reuters, so there is no difference in the quality of news and data from my app, compared to even Bloomberg.
And just because I have some issues with Apple, you decide to call my app a "pathetic" me-too product, without ever seeing my app, or even knowing its name. Says more about you, than it does about my app.
Yes - the movie app got accepted. But still, when there are apps out there that do nothing but fart, why is Apple so picky about an app not using iPhone features enough?
Regarding Applecare - if Apple treats Applecare as compulsory, they are already violating various consumer protection laws. They have to offer a proper option for servicing, irrespective of whatever the cost of that option is. It is Apple's fault that they haven't invested in building a service infrastructure in India, their fault that the iPhone is built in a way that makes it very difficult to service for even basic repairs. They cannot force a customer to buy Applecare to overcome issues at their end. Just go online and see the number of issues with the iPhone power button. This is a company that makes a phone with 2 buttons, and messed one up!
You have exposed yourself quite plainly in the way you responded. Just because I have changed by opinion about Apple, the whole tone of your post is so aggressive. Looks like you are taking this as a personal insult! And I am not a blind fanboy - I recognize when Apple messes up, and I don't blindly support whatever they do. Take a look at my post history, you will get an idea of my thoughts about Apple.
An excellent response! How is your experience with RhoMobile? I was just looking at using it...
Originally Posted by igriv
Apple IS losing market share.
In what?
I would say there is plenty of evidence that Cook is not providing great leadership.
Of course you would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
Says you. His management of supply chain logistics seems pretty close to genius to me.
Says you, and a bunch of false narratives being trotted around the web with the clear intent of disparaging his immense talent. You have no basis in FACT to be saying these things, as if you KNOW them to be true. It's purely speculative supposition and opinion.
While SJ was sick he handed the reins to TC as interim CEO, and the company thrived. After SJ passed the reins permanently to TC and then eventually passed away, the company continued to thrive. In fact, the ONLY thing not "thriving" at the moment is the stock price, and that's clearly being manipulated by large-cap investors who want more of the 'cash reserve' Apple is sitting on.
I see this potential future: Those same institutional investors will attempt to drive the stock price to under $300 (could happen if Apple misses its guidance tonight). Then will buy HUGE amounts of stock, taking enough of a share to start hostile action. They'll oust Cook, initiate "preferred shares" and drain the reserve into their own pockets.
That's one possible scenario I see playing out. If it does, and the SEC does nothing, then I'll be once and for all convinced it's a rigged game…
When Jobs was sick he handed the responsibility for day to day operations to Cook. I have no doubt he (Jobs) had final approval of all products, so that is not a great argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
In what?
Of course you would.
Have you read the news yesterday? I knew you wouldn't.
Originally Posted by igriv
Have you read the news yesterday?
And this somehow proves your "point"?
They use to dominate the handset marketshare. Wait a second, I'm thinking about shit analysts and trolls make up to claim that Apple's current numbers suck but didn't ever exist. Oops!
PS: I'm tired to typing out analysts and trolls. Surely there is a single word to describe both group of asshats. Tranalyolls?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And this somehow proves your "point"?
Yes.
Originally Posted by igriv
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
An excellent response! How is your experience with RhoMobile? I was just looking at using it...
IMO, RhoMobile is better than PhoneGap as a cross platform tool. The performance is quite good, and speed of development is also high. In fact for some functionality, RhoMobile generates basic screens for you, and all you need to do is to change the layout, colors, etc. Basic Database Insert, Delete, Update code is taken care of for you. The best part is that it has something called RhoSync, which makes it easy to build apps that can work offline, and when internet is available, the local database is synced with the remote database.
The only thing to bear in mind is that there are some components of RhoMobile that are not free - so you need to figure out licensing. It is not very significant, but nevertheless, it is something to bear in mind, considering that there are a lot of free development tools these days.
But what I really like about RhoMobile, is that you can build iOS apps even without having a Mac! I haven't tested this feature yet, because we do have Macs!
PhoneGap on the other hand works acceptably well on iOS, but sucks on Android. We have tried several suggestions to improve performance, but it is nowhere close to what the performance is on iOS. I believe this has something to do with the fact that Nitro has now been enabled outside Safari, whereas V8 has not been enabled in WebView on Android. Android performance is much better on 4.1.x devices, but sucks on 4.0.x devices.
The masses need to settle down. Tim Cook has done great. The company rolled out a new version of almost ever product last fall. Those products are being sold great as we speak. In a few months, we will get more great updates and possibly new products. Earlier management took years to come up with a new product, they were Macs and iPods for many years. Now the iPhone to iPad leap makes everyone think that every six months, you should come out with a new zillion dollar program. If you look at Apple, they are moving their chess pieces perfectly. The infrastructure is strong and they will continue to make it stronger, all products tie into their infrastructure. Their simplicity is so powerful.
Other companies, Amazon, Samsung, Google, what-have-you, are 'moving faster' in people's minds because they are doing press releases about products that don't exist yet, or coming out with a phone that is just another plastic phone without any real innovation. Air-Gesture...whatever.
Let Apple do their thing. You can rest assured that they have a competitive spirit and what to always show the world how great their products are. They have the best mindset. Tim Cook is managing everyone perfectly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
The stock price is less and less at odds with reality. Apple IS losing market share. They (as per yesterday's call, though maybe Tim lied?) will have a whole year without any new products. The cash pile sitting there losing inflation adjusted value every day is evidence of financial incompetence (yes, they announced a buyback, but this is (a) much worse than Einhorn's proposal and (b) they will have a BIGGER cash pile at the end of the buyback). I would say there is plenty of evidence that Cook is not providing great leadership.
So, as the price and the P/E decline to ridiculous levels considering their market position, product mix, profitability and record revenue, YOU maintain it's "less and less at odds"… uh, what…?
And why are you continuing to advance this false product release narrative? Once more, then I'm not doing it again. New products in the past year:
- iPad Mini (new form factor, redesigned)
- iPad Retina Display (plus a 128GB version)
- New iPod Touch
- New iMac (redesigned)
- iPhone 5
They didn't say "We are not releasing anything new (updates or otherwise) until the fall". And if they start announcing things next quarter, that isn't "a year without any new products"… your hysteria here is reaching fairly shrill heights… (and by the way, not all "new products" will be hardware or devices. Some will be software, and services… and if you expect them to push out new product categories 'just because', then you don't understand Apple at all.)
Apple is NOT losing market share, that's RIDICULOUS. What part of your butt did you just pull that nonsense out of? Do you have any "Apple clearly losing market share" citations you can link? Credible ones? Other than paid Samsung PR "articles"? Losing share in WHAT market exactly? Tablets? Phones? Computers?
Even implying that "Tim lied" during a quarterly report call (do you realize how MASSIVE a federal crime that would be? Why on earth would they be so stupid? And if you try to seriously rationalize that, I'll write you off as a conspiracy theory nut), is only seeking to falsely cast doubt where there should be none.
Finally this: "The cash pile sitting there losing inflation adjusted value every day is evidence of financial incompetence"
I'm sorry, but do you even know what their so-called "cash pile" really is? From your description you seem to imagine a Scrooge McDuck styled vault full of cash gathering dust.
Their "cash" is mostly held as Securities, etc… in that form they EARN while they 'sit there'… typically gaining in value, and certainly not "evidence of financial incompetence". Actually, given your rant, the only financial incompetence on display here is your own...
The fact that you can toss these aspersions out so easily makes it clear you think yourself far more intelligent and superior to the people actually running Apple. I suggest you create a company like that, and run it your way. Perhaps you'll succeed in doing better than they are… *snicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
The stock price is less and less at odds with reality. Apple IS losing market share. They (as per yesterday's call, though maybe Tim lied?) will have a whole year without any new products. The cash pile sitting there losing inflation adjusted value every day is evidence of financial incompetence (yes, they announced a buyback, but this is (a) much worse than Einhorn's proposal and (b) they will have a BIGGER cash pile at the end of the buyback). I would say there is plenty of evidence that Cook is not providing great leadership.
This again...
First, you didn't answer my question: Where in this scenario, aside from a 'stock price' that is at odds with reality, is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities?
Where is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities? Your weak suppositions of financial incompetence aside…
Regarding Einhorn's proposal, what Apple decided to do was increase the buyback he proposed. By spending MORE money. How is that "worse"? And this "cash pile" you refer to is also known as a cash RESERVE, which any wise manager will tell you is a GOOD thing to have. It affords flexibility, earns income, and allows for an agile management style. Because of their cash position they're able to reserve components in advance at levels no-one else can. If they drain off that reserve, then they increase RISK, and then everyone would be complaining how risky things are and then… Apple is doomed, the management sucks we need the rest of that casshhhh…….
It's ridiculous that people think an excess in reserve is a bad thing. Only if you're not using it when you should. In this case, they're using it wisely, and I give them an enthusiastic thumbs up for it.
I'm getting the distinct impression they can do no right with you. And if they DID do what YOU think is 'right', they'd end up in a real financial pickle...
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
When Jobs was sick he handed the responsibility for day to day operations to Cook. I have no doubt he (Jobs) had final approval of all products, so that is not a great argument.
Aside from the fact that wasn't an argument made in a vacuum, but ALSO took into account a longer, demonstrable history…
Jobs was under the knife and recovering alongside some debilitating treatments for some months. He was completely off the grid (I know this to be true). Cook was acting CEO in every way, and supervised more than one product launch.
You can try to disparage him all you want (and cherry-pick my posts to try and advance your own narratives) but it doesn't change the facts or the broader perspective.
How about addressing my point with the rest of my "argument" included? You're disparaging Cook's reputation and using very thin suppositions to do so. It's wearying, frankly. What is your point? What is your solution? For that matter, what is the problem! (I suspect it's mostly imagined, but, hey…)
From what you've put out there, perhaps we ought to return the "cash pile" to "the shareholders", fire Cook, put Ive in the CEO chair and …. release SOMETHING-ANYTHING and SOON! ? Silly wabbit...
Some people do like to think they are riding the cluetrain...
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
Yes.
And your point was…..?
Oh, that's right, "Apple is losing market share". Uh-huh. Somewhere is a market and Apple is losing share in it. FUD alert!!!
How about a citation? Something a bit more valid than "didn't you read 'the news' yesterday"?
What news? Specifically? The news from…. <enter new organization here> … that said that Apple is losing market share in <enter specific market space here>?
Otherwise, it's just stupid, time-wasting noise you're making...
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena
IMO, RhoMobile is better than PhoneGap as a cross platform tool. The performance is quite good, and speed of development is also high. In fact for some functionality, RhoMobile generates basic screens for you, and all you need to do is to change the layout, colors, etc. Basic Database Insert, Delete, Update code is taken care of for you. The best part is that it has something called RhoSync, which makes it easy to build apps that can work offline, and when internet is available, the local database is synced with the remote database.
The only thing to bear in mind is that there are some components of RhoMobile that are not free - so you need to figure out licensing. It is not very significant, but nevertheless, it is something to bear in mind, considering that there are a lot of free development tools these days.
But what I really like about RhoMobile, is that you can build iOS apps even without having a Mac! I haven't tested this feature yet, because we do have Macs!
PhoneGap on the other hand works acceptably well on iOS, but sucks on Android. We have tried several suggestions to improve performance, but it is nowhere close to what the performance is on iOS. I believe this has something to do with the fact that Nitro has now been enabled outside Safari, whereas V8 has not been enabled in WebView on Android. Android performance is much better on 4.1.x devices, but sucks on 4.0.x devices.
Thanks! I will try it. Have you tried Xamarin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
And your point was…..?
Oh, that's right, "Apple is losing market share". Uh-huh. Somewhere is a market and Apple is losing share in it. FUD alert!!!
How about a citation? Something a bit more valid than "didn't you read 'the news' yesterday"?
What news? Specifically? The news from…. <enter new organization here> … that said that Apple is losing market share in <enter specific market space here>?
Otherwise, it's just stupid, time-wasting noise you're making...
Well, global smartphone sales are rising, Apple is guiding its sales to go DOWN next quarter. How would you describe this, other than loss of market share? Otherwise, please don't be rude, makes you look like a moron (which I am sure you are not).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
Aside from the fact that wasn't an argument made in a vacuum, but ALSO took into account a longer, demonstrable history…
Jobs was under the knife and recovering alongside some debilitating treatments for some months. He was completely off the grid (I know this to be true). Cook was acting CEO in every way, and supervised more than one product launch.
You can try to disparage him all you want (and cherry-pick my posts to try and advance your own narratives) but it doesn't change the facts or the broader perspective.
How about addressing my point with the rest of my "argument" included? You're disparaging Cook's reputation and using very thin suppositions to do so. It's wearying, frankly. What is your point? What is your solution? For that matter, what is the problem! (I suspect it's mostly imagined, but, hey…)
From what you've put out there, perhaps we ought to return the "cash pile" to "the shareholders", fire Cook, put Ive in the CEO chair and …. release SOMETHING-ANYTHING and SOON! ? Silly wabbit...
Some people do like to think they are riding the cluetrain...
"you know this to be true" how?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
This again...
First, you didn't answer my question: Where in this scenario, aside from a 'stock price' that is at odds with reality, is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities?
Where is Tim Cook mismanaging his responsibilities? Your weak suppositions of financial incompetence aside…
Regarding Einhorn's proposal, what Apple decided to do was increase the buyback he proposed. By spending MORE money. How is that "worse"? And this "cash pile" you refer to is also known as a cash RESERVE, which any wise manager will tell you is a GOOD thing to have. It affords flexibility, earns income, and allows for an agile management style. Because of their cash position they're able to reserve components in advance at levels no-one else can. If they drain off that reserve, then they increase RISK, and then everyone would be complaining how risky things are and then… Apple is doomed, the management sucks we need the rest of that casshhhh…….
It's ridiculous that people think an excess in reserve is a bad thing. Only if you're not using it when you should. In this case, they're using it wisely, and I give them an enthusiastic thumbs up for it.
I'm getting the distinct impression they can do no right with you. And if they DID do what YOU think is 'right', they'd end up in a real financial pickle...
Do you know anything about management? Apparently more than, say XOM management, because they can do with a mere $10BN cash reserve, with which they seem quite capable of buffering their enormous R&D and exploration expenses and the considerable volatility of hydrocarbon prices. Or Google, which has $50BN on their balance sheet. Or Proctor and Gamble, who have $7BN. And a million other companies which are borrowing money.
Re Einhorn's proposal, you are similarly clueless: the whole point is that one can improve stock price MORE while spending LESS money. In particular, Apple would not need to borrow a dime under the Einhorn proposal.