Now that will be a worthy purchase when they do come out. I held off on buying one because of the lack of a Retina display.
Besides the Retina display what else will drive future iPad or iPad Mini sales? Faster processors are boring. We want more gadgetry in these devices. One with a hand scanner and reader that can uniquely identify a person by their hand print would be neat as a replacement for the password unlock. Being able to read a person's heart rate and body temperature from the palm wouldn't be all that useful but neat anyway.
Apparent screen yield issues will prevent Apple from producing a second-generation iPad mini ....
Apple knows Samsung can supply Apple with high quality retina screens in quantity to fix this problem but, Apple chosen to suffer the pain instead of asking Samsung for help.
Apple knows Samsung can supply Apple with high quality retina screens in quantity to fix this problem but, Apple chosen to suffer the pain instead of asking Samsung for help.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions that you're stating as fact.
Apple knows Samsung can supply Apple with high quality retina screens in quantity to fix this problem but, Apple chosen to suffer the pain instead of asking Samsung for help.
Yeah that must be why Samsung put a 1280x800 screen in the Galaxy Note 8 (their $399 iPad mini killer)!
Edit: And in case you haven't followed the conversation, we're talking about putting a 2048x1536 7.9" screen in the iPad mini which is much more dense than 1280x800, and even the all mighty Samsung screen gods can't seem to be able to mass produce those yet.
Yeah that must be why Samsung put a 1280x800 screen in the Galaxy Note 8 (their $399 iPad mini killer)! :no:
It's amazing that so many complained about the iPad mini's price 6 months ago but the Galaxy Note 8.0 released this month is thicker, larger, heavier, and cost $70 more despite the display resolution and PPI being only slightly higher yet having significantly worse battery life.
Where the Note 8.0 falls short is primarily in its battery life. In general you’re looking at anywhere from 10 - 40% less time on a single charge compared to the iPad mini, despite having a slightly larger battery. Power efficiency is just as important as outright performance, and this is something the folks at Samsung’s SoC division have yet to master. It’s not immediately obvious how much of a role the panel plays in all of this, but looking at our GLBenchmark battery life results it’s clear that the SoC has a significant impact.
In its defense, it does have a Wacom digitizer (which i hope Apple eventually adds) which adds cost, thickness, and weight, but I don't think that is worth all the downsides.
"well-connected" analyst? iPad mini @ $199? No camera? How "well-connected" can this analyst possibly be that he would make such fucking moronic predictions? Why would Apple slice off such a massive chunk off the mini's price when it's already possibly their lowest margin product? To "compete" with pieces of shit tablet that have negligible marketshare numbers, and are not being embraced in the least by consumers? Yet Apple needs to "compete" with these tablets simply because... they exist? Also, removing the rear camera? Not going to fucking happen. It's one of those standard features Apple wants on ALL it's connected devices, why the hell would they want to save a few pennies, and fragment the abilities of the iPad in such a massive way? Unreal how these analysts get paid by pulling this garbage out of their asses. What;s worse is that websites such as this promote, and propagate their drivel thereby hoisting them on a pedestal and giving them credibility. Well done, AI.
"His proposed options include removing the rear camera, reducing internal storage to 8 gigabytes, simplifying production of the metal casing, or using a more advanced process to build the A5 processor."
The Mini already uses near enough the lowest resolution screen available and the old, even cheaper chipset. Just making the price competitive is what will be needed.
As to short supply, well you have short supply to both create hype and cover over supply risk.
HTC One. Super LCD 3 that is a very capable and high quality display. But I agree with OLED/PenTile. Simply horrid and not to mention the hideous colors.
You are as ill-informed as the rest of the anti-OLED idiots.
OLED is capable of superior colour reproduction vs LCD. It has always been an implementation problem - not an inherent flaw in the technology. The new Samsung Galaxy 4 has selectable colour modes, at least one of which gives a colour balance that is the equal of the IP5.
"well-connected" analyst? iPad mini @ $199? No camera? How "well-connected" can this analyst possibly be that he would make such fucking moronic predictions? Why would Apple slice off such a massive chunk off the mini's price when it's already possibly their lowest margin product? To "compete" with pieces of shit tablet that have negligible marketshare numbers, and are not being embraced in the least by consumers? Yet Apple needs to "compete" with these tablets simply because... they exist? Also, removing the rear camera? Not going to fucking happen. It's one of those standard features Apple wants on ALL it's connected devices, why the hell would they want to save a few pennies, and fragment the abilities of the iPad in such a massive way? Unreal how these analysts get paid by pulling this garbage out of their asses. What;s worse is that websites such as this promote, and propagate their drivel thereby hoisting them on a pedestal and giving them credibility. Well done, AI.
Apple's over all Tablet share is falling despite the increase in sales because of the mini - there is your reason.
If I were modding this site I would ban attacks on analysts. Most of these guys have buys on Apple, none have sells and only one analyst is a hold, as far as I can see. Some of them have guesses on Apple's future lineup, and most are informed guesses.
And this is a rumor site. I really don't get the opposition to either rumors, or the opposition to Apple expanding it's line out. It makes no sense, and Apple would want to expand it's market of course.
"His proposed options include removing the rear camera, reducing internal storage to 8 gigabytes, simplifying production of the metal casing, or using a more advanced process to build the A5 processor." The Mini already uses near enough the lowest resolution screen available and the old, even cheaper chipset. Just making the price competitive is what will be needed. As to short supply, well you have short supply to both create hype and cover over supply risk.
I don't think APple said anything about iPad mini delays in the last Quarter ( the previous Quarter, yes).
Like what? And remember you have to compare displays that are around 320 PPI or above without being PenTile that are using IPS or a comparative high-end panel type with a 178° viewing angle and excellent quality and accuracy that can be produced at iPad mini quantities? I simply don't think anything else falls into that category except for Apple products.
Given that the current iPad mini has the same display resolution (163) as the 3GS then a retina one would have the same resolution as the 4, 4S, and 5 (326).
These certainly are produced in iPad mini quantities.
Apple knows Samsung can supply Apple with high quality retina screens in quantity to fix this problem but, Apple chosen to suffer the pain instead of asking Samsung for help.
LG, Sharp, Panasonic, Sony, Hitachi, Toshiba, Chimei, AU Optronics. Names many of the other companies that make LCD panels. Apple isn't beholden to any one company.
No disagreement here. MY statement wasn't to say that the 2nd gen iPad mini couldn't be Retina, but the technology they used for the first one wouldn't make it possible unless they jumped a technological generation so that they could use components that will only be available in 2013, which we're likely to find in the 5th gen iPad. For instance, the current iPad mini is essentially the internals of the iPad 2 with the A4 Rev. 2. That would make the next generation iPad mini — assuming if they followed the stepping to use older HW, like they've done in the iPod Touch to reduce costs — it would have the A5X Rev. 2. I stated that at least that Img Tech GPU is required for pushing the 2048x1536 display but may still be too power hungry for the much smaller battery of the iPad mini, even with the 32nm lithography.
I also stated that I think weight and size are more critical to the iPad mini than to the 9.7" iPad. I then opined that it won't happen until 2014 if they follow the iPod Touch SoC pattern or they'll see the success of the platform as well as a desire to control this market as securely as they did the iPod thereby making a new chip for the iPad mini that likely combines an older CPU with a modern Img Tech GPU, like Rogue, which will increase power efficiency.
Finally, I sated that I wasn't sure a modern GPU may not be enough and suggested that a new backlight and other components might have to be changed in order to maintain a thin and light iPad mini with approx. 10 hours of use on a single charge that Apple is happy with.
I could be wrong on all these counts and they may just stick an A5X in there and make it thicker and heavier, or just let the battery suffer. Personally, I hope they go with Rogue this year and don't make the iPad mini a bastard stepchild to the iPad. I think it's too important a product and product category for that.
As we hashed through before:
Obviously the A5X has sufficient horsepower to drive a retina screen because it does so in the iPad 3.
It is probable that the A6 has enough GPU horsepower if you increase the memory bandwidth leading to a cheaper and lower power chip than the A6X.
It is even more probable that a A6X with 2 cores rather than 4 (i.e. the SGX 554MP2) has sufficient horsepower since this is more or less equivalent to the older A5X 543MP4 leading to a cheaper and lower power chip than the A6X in the iPad 4.
Finally the current iPad mini has headroom lasting 13 hours in some tests. That means dropping down to 9.8 hours like on the iPad 2 requires adding less battery weight all else being equal vs the iPad 2 to iPad 3 jump even if they go with just the A5X with a die shrink. http://www.tuaw.com/2012/12/05/ipad-ipad-mini-win-battery-life-shootout-among-tablets/ It's a smaller panel with a die shrink on the A5X.
So my prediction, same as before, is that there will be a retina iPad Mini in 2013. Given the 28nm A5 from TSMC in the aTV I'm going to bet it will be a 28nm A5X from TSMC and a iPhone 4/4S grade 326 ppi panel to maintain the current price point (unless the iPhone 5 panel pricing has dropped more than I think). The current mini will drop to a new lower price point.
ASPs and margin on the full sized iPad is much better so the iPad mini will likely remain one step behind the iPad to help upsell. They wont want to drop the ASPs very much either to compete on volume so I expect the current 16GB WiFi mini to drop to $299 to hit that mental breakpoint and live where the iPad 2 does in relation to the iPad 4.
You are as ill-informed as the rest of the anti-OLED idiots.
OLED is capable of superior colour reproduction vs LCD. It has always been an implementation problem - not an inherent flaw in the technology. The new Samsung Galaxy 4 has selectable colour modes, at least one of which gives a colour balance that is the equal of the IP5.
Some of that is a flaw in the marketing. Just because you can have more saturated colors, doesn't mean you should, if you can't fight the temptation to set up exaggerated colors.
But in the moving phone environment its more often than not the best option. Anyway, rumours have it that Apple will embrace OLED soon too so sudden elevation of OLED is more than possible.
Comments
Now that will be a worthy purchase when they do come out. I held off on buying one because of the lack of a Retina display.
Besides the Retina display what else will drive future iPad or iPad Mini sales? Faster processors are boring. We want more gadgetry in these devices. One with a hand scanner and reader that can uniquely identify a person by their hand print would be neat as a replacement for the password unlock. Being able to read a person's heart rate and body temperature from the palm wouldn't be all that useful but neat anyway.
No sure way to know about "Yield Issues" Apple has many sources and will work it out. Bigger question is when Apple wants to release it.
Apple knows Samsung can supply Apple with high quality retina screens in quantity to fix this problem but, Apple chosen to suffer the pain instead of asking Samsung for help.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions that you're stating as fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardkim
Apple knows Samsung can supply Apple with high quality retina screens in quantity to fix this problem but, Apple chosen to suffer the pain instead of asking Samsung for help.
Yeah that must be why Samsung put a 1280x800 screen in the Galaxy Note 8 (their $399 iPad mini killer)!
Edit: And in case you haven't followed the conversation, we're talking about putting a 2048x1536 7.9" screen in the iPad mini which is much more dense than 1280x800, and even the all mighty Samsung screen gods can't seem to be able to mass produce those yet.
It's amazing that so many complained about the iPad mini's price 6 months ago but the Galaxy Note 8.0 released this month is thicker, larger, heavier, and cost $70 more despite the display resolution and PPI being only slightly higher yet having significantly worse battery life.
From AnandTech:
In its defense, it does have a Wacom digitizer (which i hope Apple eventually adds) which adds cost, thickness, and weight, but I don't think that is worth all the downsides.
"well-connected" analyst? iPad mini @ $199? No camera? How "well-connected" can this analyst possibly be that he would make such fucking moronic predictions? Why would Apple slice off such a massive chunk off the mini's price when it's already possibly their lowest margin product? To "compete" with pieces of shit tablet that have negligible marketshare numbers, and are not being embraced in the least by consumers? Yet Apple needs to "compete" with these tablets simply because... they exist? Also, removing the rear camera? Not going to fucking happen. It's one of those standard features Apple wants on ALL it's connected devices, why the hell would they want to save a few pennies, and fragment the abilities of the iPad in such a massive way? Unreal how these analysts get paid by pulling this garbage out of their asses. What;s worse is that websites such as this promote, and propagate their drivel thereby hoisting them on a pedestal and giving them credibility. Well done, AI.
Originally Posted by Slurpy
How "well-connected" can this analyst possibly be that he would make such fucking moronic predictions?
We need this sentence on speed dial for whenever an analyst article drops in.
This kind of guessing is meaningless.
Instead , I want to know WHO knows what that thing is Apple is gonna release this fall.
Any anal yists know?
The Mini already uses near enough the lowest resolution screen available and the old, even cheaper chipset.
Just making the price competitive is what will be needed.
As to short supply, well you have short supply to both create hype and cover over supply risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N.
HTC One. Super LCD 3 that is a very capable and high quality display. But I agree with OLED/PenTile. Simply horrid and not to mention the hideous colors.
You are as ill-informed as the rest of the anti-OLED idiots.
OLED is capable of superior colour reproduction vs LCD. It has always been an implementation problem - not an inherent flaw in the technology. The new Samsung Galaxy 4 has selectable colour modes, at least one of which gives a colour balance that is the equal of the IP5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
"well-connected" analyst? iPad mini @ $199? No camera? How "well-connected" can this analyst possibly be that he would make such fucking moronic predictions? Why would Apple slice off such a massive chunk off the mini's price when it's already possibly their lowest margin product? To "compete" with pieces of shit tablet that have negligible marketshare numbers, and are not being embraced in the least by consumers? Yet Apple needs to "compete" with these tablets simply because... they exist? Also, removing the rear camera? Not going to fucking happen. It's one of those standard features Apple wants on ALL it's connected devices, why the hell would they want to save a few pennies, and fragment the abilities of the iPad in such a massive way? Unreal how these analysts get paid by pulling this garbage out of their asses. What;s worse is that websites such as this promote, and propagate their drivel thereby hoisting them on a pedestal and giving them credibility. Well done, AI.
Apple's over all Tablet share is falling despite the increase in sales because of the mini - there is your reason.
If I were modding this site I would ban attacks on analysts. Most of these guys have buys on Apple, none have sells and only one analyst is a hold, as far as I can see. Some of them have guesses on Apple's future lineup, and most are informed guesses.
And this is a rumor site. I really don't get the opposition to either rumors, or the opposition to Apple expanding it's line out. It makes no sense, and Apple would want to expand it's market of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem
"His proposed options include removing the rear camera, reducing internal storage to 8 gigabytes, simplifying production of the metal casing, or using a more advanced process to build the A5 processor." The Mini already uses near enough the lowest resolution screen available and the old, even cheaper chipset. Just making the price competitive is what will be needed. As to short supply, well you have short supply to both create hype and cover over supply risk.
I don't think APple said anything about iPad mini delays in the last Quarter ( the previous Quarter, yes).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Like what? And remember you have to compare displays that are around 320 PPI or above without being PenTile that are using IPS or a comparative high-end panel type with a 178° viewing angle and excellent quality and accuracy that can be produced at iPad mini quantities? I simply don't think anything else falls into that category except for Apple products.
Given that the current iPad mini has the same display resolution (163) as the 3GS then a retina one would have the same resolution as the 4, 4S, and 5 (326).
These certainly are produced in iPad mini quantities.
LG, Sharp, Panasonic, Sony, Hitachi, Toshiba, Chimei, AU Optronics. Names many of the other companies that make LCD panels. Apple isn't beholden to any one company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I did.
No disagreement here. MY statement wasn't to say that the 2nd gen iPad mini couldn't be Retina, but the technology they used for the first one wouldn't make it possible unless they jumped a technological generation so that they could use components that will only be available in 2013, which we're likely to find in the 5th gen iPad. For instance, the current iPad mini is essentially the internals of the iPad 2 with the A4 Rev. 2. That would make the next generation iPad mini — assuming if they followed the stepping to use older HW, like they've done in the iPod Touch to reduce costs — it would have the A5X Rev. 2. I stated that at least that Img Tech GPU is required for pushing the 2048x1536 display but may still be too power hungry for the much smaller battery of the iPad mini, even with the 32nm lithography.
I also stated that I think weight and size are more critical to the iPad mini than to the 9.7" iPad. I then opined that it won't happen until 2014 if they follow the iPod Touch SoC pattern or they'll see the success of the platform as well as a desire to control this market as securely as they did the iPod thereby making a new chip for the iPad mini that likely combines an older CPU with a modern Img Tech GPU, like Rogue, which will increase power efficiency.
Finally, I sated that I wasn't sure a modern GPU may not be enough and suggested that a new backlight and other components might have to be changed in order to maintain a thin and light iPad mini with approx. 10 hours of use on a single charge that Apple is happy with.
I could be wrong on all these counts and they may just stick an A5X in there and make it thicker and heavier, or just let the battery suffer. Personally, I hope they go with Rogue this year and don't make the iPad mini a bastard stepchild to the iPad. I think it's too important a product and product category for that.
As we hashed through before:
Obviously the A5X has sufficient horsepower to drive a retina screen because it does so in the iPad 3.
It is probable that the A6 has enough GPU horsepower if you increase the memory bandwidth leading to a cheaper and lower power chip than the A6X.
It is even more probable that a A6X with 2 cores rather than 4 (i.e. the SGX 554MP2) has sufficient horsepower since this is more or less equivalent to the older A5X 543MP4 leading to a cheaper and lower power chip than the A6X in the iPad 4.
Finally the current iPad mini has headroom lasting 13 hours in some tests. That means dropping down to 9.8 hours like on the iPad 2 requires adding less battery weight all else being equal vs the iPad 2 to iPad 3 jump even if they go with just the A5X with a die shrink. http://www.tuaw.com/2012/12/05/ipad-ipad-mini-win-battery-life-shootout-among-tablets/ It's a smaller panel with a die shrink on the A5X.
So my prediction, same as before, is that there will be a retina iPad Mini in 2013. Given the 28nm A5 from TSMC in the aTV I'm going to bet it will be a 28nm A5X from TSMC and a iPhone 4/4S grade 326 ppi panel to maintain the current price point (unless the iPhone 5 panel pricing has dropped more than I think). The current mini will drop to a new lower price point.
ASPs and margin on the full sized iPad is much better so the iPad mini will likely remain one step behind the iPad to help upsell. They wont want to drop the ASPs very much either to compete on volume so I expect the current 16GB WiFi mini to drop to $299 to hit that mental breakpoint and live where the iPad 2 does in relation to the iPad 4.
Some of that is a flaw in the marketing. Just because you can have more saturated colors, doesn't mean you should, if you can't fight the temptation to set up exaggerated colors.
But in the moving phone environment its more often than not the best option.
Anyway, rumours have it that Apple will embrace OLED soon too so sudden elevation of OLED is more than possible.