Adobe goes subscription-only, rebrands Creative Suite as Creative Cloud

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 180
    growlroogrowlroo Posts: 1member
    This is amazing stupid of Adobe. Right when they are poised to bury Final Cut X for the crap product that it is with the far superior Premiere Pro CS6 suite, they do this malarky - which will insure that they don't win a majority of the video editing software business.

    Who are the knuckle heads at Adobe who think a sound business plan consists of huckstering consumers and screwing over professionals that have been long time customers?

  • Reply 82 of 180
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member
    Will there be a Creative Suite PE* ?


    *pirate edition
  • Reply 83 of 180
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by Growlroo View Post

    …Final Cut X for the crap product that it is with the far superior Premiere Pro CS6…


     


    Enjoy your lies.

  • Reply 84 of 180
    eluardeluard Posts: 319member


    It's a little disgusting to read here people suggesting that the only people who might not want this subscription model are software pirates. I have bought all of my Creative Suites over the years. I currently have CS5 and I see no reason to upgrade, certainly not now. I'm probably like many Adobe customers. I use all occasionally, but some very much less than others. But it was nice feeling that the tools were there if I ever should need them.


     


    Users like me are frozen out on the subscription model. For every ten professional users who will sign up, Adobe has lost a hundred casual users. Great work there! 


     


    This is the end of Adobe, their last bone-headed move. It has been ten years of shambling incompetence and greed. So long Adobe — and thanks for all the fish.

  • Reply 85 of 180
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


     


    Yes, because casual home users, hobbyists, and self-employed freelancers just love forking out $1500 - $2000 for software all at one time.



     


    Yeah right. Where is this attitude coming from? And who pays MSRP for software suites? I'm one of those freelancers, and no we don't LOVE forking out large sums of money for overpriced software, but every legitimate user (myself included) HAS paid for the full package at least once. I paid $800 for my first purchase of CS2… 


     


    I've been upgrading since, averaging about $600 every three years (I don't always upgrade "on schedule"). It's a lump sum I plan for, I save up for it, and pull the trigger when I'm ready… I decide when, and I decide how much I will spend. The subscription model puts an end to me determining my own pace / priority for software purchasing.


     


    Your snarky tone is tiring… what does this have to do with not liking 'subscription based' software?

  • Reply 86 of 180
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post



    It's a very confusing name... but the software is still installed and runs locally from your computer.


     


    Until you don't pay the monthly subscription, and then what ho! It stops working (and so do you) until you pay up...


     


    Nothing at all confusing about it.

  • Reply 87 of 180
    the cool gutthe cool gut Posts: 1,714member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


    Then your boss is an idiot. For one, it becomes an operating expense rather than a capital expense, and should be favourable come tax time. That's why companies lease equipment rather than buying it. And two, counting upgrades, assuming you use more than two of their apps, you probably paid more than $50/month on average if you upgraded every time to keep current. If you use one or two adobe apps, then rent those individually for $20/month each.



     


    You wouldn't make much of an accountant.  Leasing - is more expensive long term, everyone knows that.  To go with the Creative Cloud for tax savings is what's known as being "A penny wise, and a pound foolish"


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post


     And two, counting upgrades, assuming you use more than two of their apps, you probably paid more than $50/month on average if you upgraded every time to keep current. If you use one or two adobe apps, then rent those individually for $20/month each.


     



     


     


    Who keeps current with Adobe Apps?  They are so flipping buggy when they come out, full of features that are for the "prosumer" market - not Pros.  The last time I upgraded was June 2010, when I paid $676 for CS 5 Design Premium.  I'm not about to go to something that is paid off to $600/year for the same functionality just so I can save $20 a year in taxes.

  • Reply 88 of 180
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Coda. You'll never go back.



     


    Indeed… Panic Software makes great apps.


     


    http://www.panic.com

  • Reply 89 of 180
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You can subscribe to Dreamweaver CC version for $19.99 a month


     


    or buy Coda is $99 $75 up front.



     


    So, with Coda, you pay once and come out ahead after 3.5 months.


     


    Or, $240 a year, every year, for DW? After using it for 2 years ($480 and growing), I'd be feeling robbed. And if you don't want to pay MORE? No more toys for YOU!


     


    At least I can still use the tools I paid for previously, even if I decide not to upgrade them right now...

  • Reply 90 of 180
    macologistmacologist Posts: 264member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You can subscribe to Dreamweaver CC version for $19.99 a month


     


    or buy Coda is $99 $75 up front.



     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


     


    http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html



     


     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post





    Thanks!



    It looks like you can pay $20 a month for a single program.



    Then again... for $50 a month you get EVERY program Adobe makes. It all depends on how much of Adobe's software you use (and make money with)


     


    Thank you ALL for you Feedback, but on http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html I did NOT see Dreamweaver as an Individual Option! Did I miss it?


     


    Meanwhile, Squarespace this http://www.squarespace.com/pricing/ at $16/ prepaid for the Year, or $20 Monthly is beginning to look good!  


     


    I just did about 1 hour Text Chat with them, and got a lot of useful info:


     


     


    USING THE SQUARESPACE FOR IPAD APP



     


    So I can be in bad or at a coffee shop with my iPad and Update my Site!!!! 


     


    Will Adobe Offer Phone Support, or will it be Email or maybe Text Chats? 


     


    Squarespace can Import and Export Wordpress! So, in Theory…, one could create a Site with Squarespace, Export it as Wordpress File, Host it on Godaddy, and do Edits Updates via FTP! But then I am not sure how much Less Expensive GoDaddy Hosting would be! 



    My biggest Attraction to Dreamweaver was WYSIWYG and Templates, but Squarespace seems to do all that, and it's sites do look great on iOS too! Although I was told that NOT all their Template have Independent Font Sizes Adjustment for Mobile Sites like iOS, in case I want a Bigger Font on iPad, without changing Font Size for Macs!

     


    Squarespace does NOT Install Local Mac App, but I can work on my Files, Text Only, Offline, and then either Sync or Copy and Paste them, to Update my Site with Squarespace, I don't know for sure…. I'll be Investigating all that! 


     


    If Adobe doesn't INCLUDE Phone Support in that $20 or $50 Monthly, then Squarespace at $16 makes more sense, as far as I think, right now! But of course I am VERY ANGRY with Adobe right now!



    As to Phone Support, every day I am reminded how spoiled I am with AppleCare!!! $345 for 3 Years!!!! That's Less than $1 Per Day for the 1st Year, and the remaining 2 Years are Free, All You Can Eat, UNLIMITED!!!


     


    I'd be willing to pay that $345 for 3 Years to Google, Adobe, if I could talk to Humans, like I can with Apple! AppleCare is The Best Deal In Town!!! I wish Apple allowed to Re-Purchase it after 3 Years Expires! But I guess they would prefer me to buy a new Mac every 3 Years:)!

  • Reply 91 of 180


    If you only use just one of Adobe's products there's a chance you can find an individual alternative. However, if you use the the big 4 - Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and Dreamweaver as your main tools there is no serious alternative out there, and certainly no suite of software - it's practically a monopoly.


     


    I expect to pay for software, it is one of the tools of my trade, but at least I had the choice to upgrade when I could afford it - with subscription I have no choice. This will be considerably more expensive for me. I'll be sticking with CS6 for as long as possible.


     


    Until now Adobe needed to make improvements to each CS to encourage users to upgrade. Once we're all under subscription, and with little competition, there will be no real incentive for them to improve the products. I think we can expect to see their profits rocket.

  • Reply 92 of 180
    jabohnjabohn Posts: 582member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post


    I've been upgrading since, averaging about $600 every three years (I don't always upgrade "on schedule"). It's a lump sum I plan for, I save up for it, and pull the trigger when I'm ready… I decide when, and I decide how much I will spend. The subscription model puts an end to me determining my own pace / priority for software purchasing.



    Thank you for this post. You said it a lot better than I did. I was weighing the possibility of purchasing CS6 or waiting for CS6.5 so now I know my options have changed.

  • Reply 93 of 180
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member


    There are quite a few posts with similar comments about professionals, agencies, freelancers etc. I too, like some others here would have preferred to keep an every other version refresh of CS but it never worked out because as soon as a new CS version was released we would get a file from a collaborating designer or customer that was in the new format. Then we would have to scramble to get upgraded and it wasn't always the most convenient time. Or we add a new workstation which caused incompatibility in-house. That is just what happens in a professional environment. Similarly in the agency model whether the freelancers are in house or at home it is much more practical to have everyone on the same version of the software. When we share our files we always send the IDML files as well but most designers aren't that courteous or perhaps they are just naive. Often they are in a drastically different time zone which can put a project behind a couple days just trying to get in touch with them.


     


    Anyway we've been on the subscription since it started and it is great. It also comes with cloud storage and sharing features which some people don't need because they are working in a vacuum but in a professional environment the additional services have an added value. So yes, it is more expensive but the added value of synchronization of versioning and the cloud features are intended for professionals only.


     


    It may not be an ideal situation for some solo designers but for the larger teams and for Adobe's application delivery process, it is a big improvement. You can surely understand why they want to move to this model and I'm sure piracy is also a big part of it.


     


    Finally, for the last time, the new platform does NOT require always on high speed Internet. You install the app on your local machines and you only need to be connected once in awhile to revalidate your subscription. Otherwise it works the same as always but it can take advantage of the cloud services should you choose but they are completely optional.

  • Reply 94 of 180
    michael scripmichael scrip Posts: 1,916member
    macologist wrote: »
    Thank you ALL for you Feedback, but on http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html I did NOT see Dreamweaver as an Individual Option! Did I miss it?

    It appears that you can get Dreamweaver for $20 a month.

    https://creative.adobe.com/plans?plan=single

    macologist wrote: »
    Meanwhile, Squarespace this http://www.squarespace.com/pricing/ at $16/ prepaid for the Year, or $20 Monthly is beginning to look good!  

    I just did about 1 hour Text Chat with them, and got a lot of useful info:

    USING THE SQUARESPACE FOR IPAD APP
    http://help.squarespace.com/customer/portal/articles/648190 
     
    So I can be in bad or at a coffee shop with my iPad and Update my Site!!!! 
     
    Will Adobe Offer Phone Support, or will it be Email or maybe Text Chats? 
     
    Squarespace can Import and Export Wordpress! So, in Theory…, one could create a Site with Squarespace, Export it as Wordpress File, Host it on Godaddy, and do Edits Updates via FTP! But then I am not sure how much Less Expensive GoDaddy Hosting would be! 

    My biggest Attraction to Dreamweaver was WYSIWYG and Templates, but Squarespace seems to do all that, and it's sites do look great on iOS too! Although I was told that NOT all their Template have Independent Font Sizes Adjustment for Mobile Sites like iOS, in case I want a Bigger Font on iPad, without changing Font Size for Macs!
     
    Squarespace does NOT Install Local Mac App, but I can work on my Files, Text Only, Offline, and then either Sync or Copy and Paste them, to Update my Site with Squarespace, I don't know for sure…. I'll be Investigating all that! 
     
    If Adobe doesn't INCLUDE Phone Support in that $20 or $50 Monthly, then Squarespace at $16 makes more sense, as far as I think, right now! But of course I am VERY ANGRY with Adobe right now!

    As to Phone Support, every day I am reminded how spoiled I am with AppleCare!!! $345 for 3 Years!!!! That's Less than $1 Per Day for the 1st Year, and the remaining 2 Years are Free, All You Can Eat, UNLIMITED!!!
     
    I'd be willing to pay that $345 for 3 Years to Google, Adobe, if I could talk to Humans, like I can with Apple! AppleCare is The Best Deal In Town!!! I wish Apple allowed to Re-Purchase it after 3 Years Expires! But I guess they would prefer me to buy a new Mac every 3 Years:)!

    As for Squarespace... it's kinda silly to compare that to anything Adobe offers.

    Squarespace is a wonderful web hosting and web design solution... while Adobe makes professional-grade software.

    You're right... you cannot call Adobe for questions about your website... if that's what you're looking for...
  • Reply 95 of 180
    tribalogicaltribalogical Posts: 1,182member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichL View Post



    This move sucks for pirates but isn't such as a bad deal for professionals who pay for the software. Creative Suite is an industry-leading software package and is priced appropriately.



    There's many ideological reasons why people hate renting software. However, if you check of the EULA of any software package, you'll realise that you don't own your existing software either.


     


    That's hardly a rationale for, "if you're not willing to pay a monthly subscription, you will now lose all access to the software you need"…...


     


    I paid for my license once. That worked for me. I pay for upgrades when I want to. No company should be able to dictate when and how much I will pay to CONTINUE using software that I bought a license for… 

  • Reply 96 of 180

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by macologist View Post


     


    Will Adobe Offer Phone Support, or will it be Email or maybe Text Chats? 


     



    don't get me started... WORST.  PHONE.  SUPPORT. EVER!!!!


     


    Seriously, each call I made took at least an hour and was entirely unsatisfactory.  Each time, and I believe there were three, I had an Indian man who was reading from a script and didn't seem to understand my question.  It was extremely frustrating!!!

  • Reply 97 of 180
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post




    I paid for my license once. That worked for me. I pay for upgrades when I want to. No company should be able to dictate when and how much I will pay to CONTINUE using software that I bought a license for… 



    That is the model that super high end software has been using for awhile. Creative Cloud is now on the same licensing model as other high end professional solutions. I think the difference is that many pro-sumer type users were also using some of their titles. Clearly they are changing that relationship by targeting high end professionals only. I can't imagine that they haven't considered the implications of such a move and apparently this is the direction they want to go. If you don't like it, you need to find other alternatives. For us it is a no brainer decision. We use Adobe CS->CC and we could not operate the business without it.


     


    There is no competition in the market but that is not Adobe's fault and all the pros have standardized on CS so what are you going to do? Pass the additional cost on to your customers.

  • Reply 98 of 180
    richardk32richardk32 Posts: 36member


    Quite the assumption, said the guy who's paid to upgrade to nearly every major jump since CS 1.


    Yes, I know you only have to re-up by logging in once a month. As someone who spent the aftermath of Sandy scrambling from generator to generator trying to complete the projects at hand, even though I had no internet access, how exactly would I have done that if my Creative Cloud subscription had to be re-blessed during that time period? The "you're paying that much now" argument also doesn't wash, because I'm paying that much now for a perpetual license, not until the 30th of the month. This way of doing business is what Warnock, Jobs, Gates, Kapor, Borland, et al., rebelled against in the late '70s.

  • Reply 99 of 180
    eluardeluard Posts: 319member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    You can surely understand why they want to move to this model and I'm sure piracy is also a big part of it.


     


     



     


    I can see that it works for you and that's great. But it would work the same for you if subscription were an option. But it's not. It's now a requirement. And it is that that has people enraged. There is now no choice. Design Suite for hobbyists, casuals is now over.


     


    Also I am sceptical how many pirates there were in the professional environment. So how will this move put more money into Adobe's hands? Piracy wasn't taking money from Adobe before, it was simply not giving them money they were entitled to. So stopping piracy may put no more dollars than before into Adobe's coffers. It just forces the pirates to steal something else.

  • Reply 100 of 180
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,310moderator
    With a subscription-based model like this, if things got tight for even one month, and you couldn't maintain the subscription, you'd lose the ability to earn!

    Wouldn't you also lose the ability to eat, pay your rent, pay for internet etc? I don't see how knowing you will pay $50/month is worse than coming across a situation where Adobe issues an update and you require the update and unexpectedly have a $600 or higher expense in one month. Would it really be that difficult to keep aside $200 to cover you for 4 months?

    Also:

    "Users will be expected to connect to the web every 30 days to validate their software licenses, but Adobe says products will work offline for 180 days."

    http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/05/adobe-doubles-down-on-creative-cloud-adopts-subscription-only-software-model/
    Thing is, are those projections taking into account the fact that they aren't selling software at all anymore? Did they cut out their revenue stream from software actually being sold?

    Those projections likely weren't but the following are:

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/2013/05/06/adobe-systems-to-break-out-box-by-focusing-on-web-software/

    "The company expects to have four million subscribers on Adobe Creative Cloud by the end of fiscal 2015.

    In the first quarter, licensed and packaged software made up 67% of Adobe’s total revenue with $675.8 million in sales. That ratio fell from 77% of total revenue in the year-ago period. Meanwhile, subscription revenue from Creative Cloud and the company’s digital marketing service was $224.3 million, or 22% of revenue, up from 14%."

    You can see revenue breakdowns on their end of year accounts:

    http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/invrelations/pdfs/FY11_10-K_FINAL_Certified.pdf
    http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/investor-relations/PDFs/ADBE_10K_FY12_FINAL_CERTIFIED.pdf

    They have some enterprise and print/publishing services. They actually make quite a lot of money - about $4.5b per year. They are obviously fairly confident they can maintain this with the new model.

    "This is obviously a bit of a risky step for Adobe, something Morris acknowledged in our discussion. Most users, he noted, probably expected Adobe to make an announcement like this in the coming years – the fact that it’s coming today, however, will likely be a bit of a shock. What makes him and the rest of the Adobe team believe that this will work, he told me, is that virtually everybody who has subscribed to Creative Cloud loves it. It even gets a higher rating in Adobe’s online store than Photoshop, “which is virtually unheard of,” as Morris told me."

    It will come with some changes like Fireworks is EOL now:

    http://thenextweb.com/dd/2013/05/06/yes-adobe-is-killing-fireworks-only-plans-security-updates-and-bug-fixes/?fromcat=all
    http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/06/after-nearly-10-years-adobe-abandons-its-creative-suite-entirely-to-focus-on-creative-cloud/

    I think people will adapt to it ok.
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