Yes. Actually it would be... but not for the snarky comment on the end of the post.
Real reason: majority of Germans are on inexpensive POG plans using "Smart Phones", not "Super Smart Phones". BTW: this extra "Super" category is starting to be used now more often in German tech media to differentiate the low-spec phones that many people were led to believe were "the same as the iPhone or Galaxy" brands.
On topic: yes... the Germans are extremely vigilant protecting their privacy rights(!). Although a very large number do not have the slightest idea how much data-mining is going on by Google, because it's just too far out their for them to fathom really. They have been led to believe that the government, or specifically the VZBV would have stopped anything even approaching what Google does, long, long ago. It has been rather recent that many Germans have become of aware of what's being collected... and of course... Apple is the worst offender because they make the most profit.... and are inherently evil because of it.
Not going to rag on my adopted country any longer, but they are a rather naive bunch when it comes to computer technology... other than those that work in the industry. Just sayin'......
Hmm. . . Apple gets a single ding from a single country (so far) for it's privacy policies and you feel they're being treated unfairly compared to Google? Perhaps Apple isn't being treated the same. That's a good thing so accept it while it lasts.
Yes. Actually it would be... but not for the snarky comment on the end of the post.
Real reason: majority of Germans are on inexpensive POG plans using "Smart Phones", not "Super Smart Phones". BTW: this extra "Super" category is starting to be used now more often in German tech media to differentiate the low-spec phones that many people were led to believe were "the same as the iPhone or Galaxy" brands.
On topic: yes... the Germans are extremely vigilant protecting their privacy rights(!). Although a very large number do not have the slightest idea how much data-mining is going on by Google, because it's just too far out their for them to fathom really. They have been led to believe that the government, or specifically the VZBV would have stopped anything even approaching what Google does, long, long ago. It has been rather recent that many Germans have become of aware of what's being collected... and of course... Apple is the worst offender because they make the most profit.... and are inherently evil because of it.
Not going to rag on my adopted country any longer, but they are a rather naive bunch when it comes to computer technology... other than those that work in the industry. Just sayin'......:p
The Germans are pretty smart you know. They're more than capable of knowing what Google is up to. They were smart enough to find out what many on here deny and that's that Apple does indeed give your info to advertisers.
Oh the Germans are not that smart. They build an overpriced car in South Kaclelaky that gets its parts from the same vendors than supplies Ford and Chrysler.
Apple and Google are very much alike when it comes to their privacy policies.
Notice he uses the term "privacy policies". Most companies are "very much alike" in their privacy policies. That's because the purpose of privacy policies is mainly to provide legal cover, not to tell you in detail exactly what the company does with the data.
The important question is what are the companies' privacy practices, how much do they violate privacy and in what ways. GG would like you to focus on the "policies" not the practices, and with good reason (for him and Google). No one has been caught violating privacy laws as often as Google, and no one violates your privacy in more ways than Google. Ignore the policy, scrutinize the practice.
If Germans feel Apple is evil then it's because of the price of their products which are generally viewed as overpriced. An advertising slogan called "Geiz ist geil" (translates to something like "Stinginess is awesome") by an electronics chain store a few years ago has since become a mentality for lots of people. They ask themselves: Why pay €700 for an iPhone when you can get an iPhone-like device like the Galaxy S3 for €500? They don't see the extra value but rather lower their sights to save a few bucks. It's something that bugs me personally but a cheaper iPhone might do wonders for Apple here anyway.
As for data privacy, I don't think the public sees Apple as a big issue yet. They haven't made huge headlines in the mainstream media because of it like Google (Street View) or Facebook (unintentional public Facebook events turned 5000 people rager) have.
Overall, it's pretty easy to accuse a company of data privacy wrongdoing. The hard part? Throwing together a solid case with actual proof.
Oh the Germans are not that smart. They build an overpriced car in South Kaclelaky that gets its parts from the same vendors than supplies Ford and Chrysler.
Plus they tried taking over the world with a puny underfunded army.
Hmm. . . Apple gets a single ding from a single country (so far) for it's privacy policies and you feel they're being treated unfairly compared to Google? Perhaps Apple isn't being treated the same. That's a good thing so accept it while it lasts.
This question is off topic, and not related to this case. If anybody has an answer, I'd appreciate it.
Under German law, is Google permitted to seek "global consent" to use customer data like location information. Or must they specify in each case what a customer's data will be used for, and by which programs?
Also, are Google allowed to provide consumer data to other companies that have used them for advertising?
You already have that answer. If Google does that and doesn't explain any better than Apple does how data is collected and used they wouldn't be any better than Apple and the same rules would apply wouldn't they? It's not as tho the EU isn't investigating Google's Privacy Policies too. So far Apple's problem only extends to Germany. Don't be surprised that it eventually gets the EU Commissions attention too just as Google has.
Apple and Google are very much alike when it comes to their privacy policies. Apple has been fortunate up until now to avoid the level of scrutiny that Google gets.
No I don't already have that answer. I'm kind of an idiot, so maybe you could just answer my question for me in a straight-forward manner, rather than with more questions of "if" and "wouldn't?" I mean, I didn't ask "if" Google does. I asked "does" Google does?
Your "theoreticals" do not equal "You already have that answer".
Actually, big an idiot as I am, I think your answer is pretty convoluted.
Google was ordered to pay a fine of €145.000 just last month. They were proven guilty of recording personal WLAN information without permission while gathering all the data for Street View. Also last month, France, Germany and four other European countries filed a lawsuit because of a change Google made to the Terms of Use which allows them to share user data between their different services. The list goes on and on, Google really is getting under fire a lot in Europe and Germany specifically for data privacy issues. There's no indication whatsoever Apple is getting handled any different than any other companies.
Also, as Gatorguy said, us Germans take data privacy pretty seriously, each of the 16 federal states even have a government agency just for data privacy issues.
That's useful / helpful info.
Thanks.
EDIT: Ok, I just googled "google privacy german court" and found the instance you refer to.
The only other thing that came up under my search is this current story we are discussing concerning Apple.
Google case Quote:
Google has been fined E145,000 (£125,000) by German data regulators for illegally recording information from unsecured wi-fi networks.
The country’s data chief called it “one of the biggest known data protection violations in history”. But the regulator admitted the amount was “totally inadequate” as a deterrent to the company.
The search giant said it unintentionally collected data including emails, passwords and photos. Google has said it never intended to store the personal data, which had been captured in 2008-10, while the company gathered material for its Street View service.
Under European regulations, the maximum fine for an accidental violation is 150,000 euros - but data protection supervisor Johannes Caspar called for that amount to be increased in future.
In a statement, the regulators said: “Among the information gathered in the drive-bys were significant amounts of personal data of varying quality. For example, emails, passwords, photos and chat protocols were collected.”
Oh the Germans are not that smart. They build an overpriced car in South Kaclelaky that gets its parts from the same vendors than supplies Ford and Chrysler.
Curious cause last I checked apps already ask individually for access to contacts, calendar, location etc.
So it seems like they just invalidated old rules that aren't in effect anymore because Apple voluntary changed the rules ages ago.
This is not about what apps do with the info.
It's about Apple's policy for its own internal use of private information. For example, collecting info without explicit approval, even if you just shared a photo to someone's email address:
"When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to join you on Apple forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number."
...and using location services for multiple purposes...
"To provide location-based services on Apple products, Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. For example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services."
As far as I can tell, the people's lawyers persuaded the Court that location data was implicitly not anonymous.
I'm not giving my own opinion here, btw, but simply trying to explain the German one.
Comments
SJ: No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
Yes. Actually it would be... but not for the snarky comment on the end of the post.
Real reason: majority of Germans are on inexpensive POG plans using "Smart Phones", not "Super Smart Phones". BTW: this extra "Super" category is starting to be used now more often in German tech media to differentiate the low-spec phones that many people were led to believe were "the same as the iPhone or Galaxy" brands.
On topic: yes... the Germans are extremely vigilant protecting their privacy rights(!). Although a very large number do not have the slightest idea how much data-mining is going on by Google, because it's just too far out their for them to fathom really. They have been led to believe that the government, or specifically the VZBV would have stopped anything even approaching what Google does, long, long ago. It has been rather recent that many Germans have become of aware of what's being collected... and of course... Apple is the worst offender because they make the most profit.... and are inherently evil because of it.
Not going to rag on my adopted country any longer, but they are a rather naive bunch when it comes to computer technology... other than those that work in the industry. Just sayin'......
Hmm. . . Apple gets a single ding from a single country (so far) for it's privacy policies and you feel they're being treated unfairly compared to Google? Perhaps Apple isn't being treated the same. That's a good thing so accept it while it lasts.
Good thing you're not SJ.
The Germans are pretty smart you know. They're more than capable of knowing what Google is up to. They were smart enough to find out what many on here deny and that's that Apple does indeed give your info to advertisers.
Oh the Germans are not that smart. They build an overpriced car in South Kaclelaky that gets its parts from the same vendors than supplies Ford and Chrysler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Apple and Google are very much alike when it comes to their privacy policies.
Notice he uses the term "privacy policies". Most companies are "very much alike" in their privacy policies. That's because the purpose of privacy policies is mainly to provide legal cover, not to tell you in detail exactly what the company does with the data.
The important question is what are the companies' privacy practices, how much do they violate privacy and in what ways. GG would like you to focus on the "policies" not the practices, and with good reason (for him and Google). No one has been caught violating privacy laws as often as Google, and no one violates your privacy in more ways than Google. Ignore the policy, scrutinize the practice.
@ThePixelDoctor:
If Germans feel Apple is evil then it's because of the price of their products which are generally viewed as overpriced. An advertising slogan called "Geiz ist geil" (translates to something like "Stinginess is awesome") by an electronics chain store a few years ago has since become a mentality for lots of people. They ask themselves: Why pay €700 for an iPhone when you can get an iPhone-like device like the Galaxy S3 for €500? They don't see the extra value but rather lower their sights to save a few bucks. It's something that bugs me personally but a cheaper iPhone might do wonders for Apple here anyway.
As for data privacy, I don't think the public sees Apple as a big issue yet. They haven't made huge headlines in the mainstream media because of it like Google (Street View) or Facebook (unintentional public Facebook events turned 5000 people rager) have.
Overall, it's pretty easy to accuse a company of data privacy wrongdoing. The hard part? Throwing together a solid case with actual proof.
Examples for what, exactly?
Plus they tried taking over the world with a puny underfunded army.
There's life in Android¿
-1
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Plus they tried taking over the world with a puny underfunded army.
Once we saved all Southern European countries from national bankruptcy, we'll try again, I promise.
So it seems like they just invalidated old rules that aren't in effect anymore because Apple voluntary changed the rules ages ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso
This question is off topic, and not related to this case. If anybody has an answer, I'd appreciate it.
Under German law, is Google permitted to seek "global consent" to use customer data like location information. Or must they specify in each case what a customer's data will be used for, and by which programs?
Also, are Google allowed to provide consumer data to other companies that have used them for advertising?
You already have that answer. If Google does that and doesn't explain any better than Apple does how data is collected and used they wouldn't be any better than Apple and the same rules would apply wouldn't they? It's not as tho the EU isn't investigating Google's Privacy Policies too. So far Apple's problem only extends to Germany. Don't be surprised that it eventually gets the EU Commissions attention too just as Google has.
Apple and Google are very much alike when it comes to their privacy policies. Apple has been fortunate up until now to avoid the level of scrutiny that Google gets.
No I don't already have that answer. I'm kind of an idiot, so maybe you could just answer my question for me in a straight-forward manner, rather than with more questions of "if" and "wouldn't?" I mean, I didn't ask "if" Google does. I asked "does" Google does?
Your "theoreticals" do not equal "You already have that answer".
Actually, big an idiot as I am, I think your answer is pretty convoluted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex101
Google was ordered to pay a fine of €145.000 just last month. They were proven guilty of recording personal WLAN information without permission while gathering all the data for Street View. Also last month, France, Germany and four other European countries filed a lawsuit because of a change Google made to the Terms of Use which allows them to share user data between their different services. The list goes on and on, Google really is getting under fire a lot in Europe and Germany specifically for data privacy issues. There's no indication whatsoever Apple is getting handled any different than any other companies.
Also, as Gatorguy said, us Germans take data privacy pretty seriously, each of the 16 federal states even have a government agency just for data privacy issues.
That's useful / helpful info.
Thanks.
EDIT: Ok, I just googled "google privacy german court" and found the instance you refer to.
The only other thing that came up under my search is this current story we are discussing concerning Apple.
Google case Quote:
Google has been fined E145,000 (£125,000) by German data regulators for illegally recording information from unsecured wi-fi networks.
The country’s data chief called it “one of the biggest known data protection violations in history”. But the regulator admitted the amount was “totally inadequate” as a deterrent to the company.
The search giant said it unintentionally collected data including emails, passwords and photos. Google has said it never intended to store the personal data, which had been captured in 2008-10, while the company gathered material for its Street View service.
Under European regulations, the maximum fine for an accidental violation is 150,000 euros - but data protection supervisor Johannes Caspar called for that amount to be increased in future.
In a statement, the regulators said: “Among the information gathered in the drive-bys were significant amounts of personal data of varying quality. For example, emails, passwords, photos and chat protocols were collected.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCProfessor
Oh the Germans are not that smart. They build an overpriced car in South Kaclelaky that gets its parts from the same vendors than supplies Ford and Chrysler.
Sounds pretty smart to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Curious cause last I checked apps already ask individually for access to contacts, calendar, location etc.
So it seems like they just invalidated old rules that aren't in effect anymore because Apple voluntary changed the rules ages ago.
This is not about what apps do with the info.
It's about Apple's policy for its own internal use of private information. For example, collecting info without explicit approval, even if you just shared a photo to someone's email address:
"When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to join you on Apple forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number."
...and using location services for multiple purposes...
"To provide location-based services on Apple products, Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. For example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services."
As far as I can tell, the people's lawyers persuaded the Court that location data was implicitly not anonymous.
I'm not giving my own opinion here, btw, but simply trying to explain the German one.
Does that mean they does do?
Do the Germans consider the BMW or Benz as overpriced too?