And what if, when I'm home, my fob or iPhone is sitting close enough to one of these locks to still show their "presence"? My kitchen (where my keys sit and iPhones charge) is less than 20 feet from the door.
I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that their technology can perfectly tell which side of the door it's on 100% of the time.
Hey, Mr. Robber, just tap the lock and come on in!
Aside form the fact that your complaint is something that they specifically say the lock doesn't do ... don't you think that if all the other locks were regular and your's had a glowing blue ring on it, that this alone would be enough to make the robber pick someone else?
I'm tempted to start a side business in locks with glowy blue rings that *appear* to be this kind of lock.
Simply log into the Kevo app on another smartphone or into the Kevo web portal and disable or delete any eKeys associated with the lock. You will need to use your Kevo Fob or the standard key to unlock the lock until you retrieve or replace your phone.
What I don't get is this: I have 2 locks (same key) on my door, the handle lock and a deadbolt. Are they planning to sell coordinated systems? Without that, this wouldn't work for me and my door (which is the most commet setup, no?).
The UniKey system also treats a user's iPhone as a physical key, which means multiple phones can't be logged into the account at the same time. If users lose their phone and log into another device, the lost phone's key access will automatically be revoked.
I think they're saying this is a normal Bluetooth paired device, so you can only have one phone paired with it.
The one thing I see as an immediate problem is the need to replace the batteries.
I used to have an electronic key lock on my door, and had to punch in the code to get in. But when the batteries went dead, I was locked out. Of course I could have just used my key, but if I have to carry my key around just in case, what's the point?
A solution to this problem would be to incorporate a small solar charging panel, either inside or outside. If the batteries alone will last a year, trickle charging with a solar panel seems like an obvious answer. Now, if I can get many years out of it before the batteries give up, that's a better solution.
Brian,
Battery life is one year with typical use and I assure you K?vo provides fair warning when you need to replace your batteries. K?vo also comes with two traditional keys and as with a traditional lock, it’s always a good idea to keep a backup key hidden nearby or at a neighbor’s house. –Phil Dumas
Seems pretty neat. The crazy paranoia expressed by some of you means it just isn't for you; some people don't use email or facebook because they're freaked out about... god knows what... but for those of us without fallout shelters and tin hats this is something that makes it a little more convenient to get into your house. Once car manufacturers get on board with this type of tech we will be well on our way to doing away with keys, and instead of having a backup key there could be an alternative (numerical keypad, etc.) that removes the fear of being locked out by a dead phone battery, without the need to carry around a keychain for all your backup keys.
I think the next gen of this tech would be a wifi version that reminds you that you left the door unlocked when you leave some defined proximity, with a push notification, and then gives you the option to lock it remotely. Also, a mode that unlocks the door without taps when you're within 3 feet of the door and then relocks it when you get further away would be nice for those of us that don't lock our doors when we're home; then you'd never have to mess with it at all, and if that were easy to disable, or on a timer so the door locked itself at night, it would be downright ideal.
At any rate, this is well on the way to that, and I will consider picking one up.
1) Thieves generally only have "bump keys" in movies.
2) This is true of the lock it replaces also.
You're assuming that this is some kind of high-security technology when it's clearly described as simply a regular lock with a few extra features that make it better. On that level, it seems like a great success to me. You pull out the old lock, put this one in and 'boom' ... better lock.
Is it something the CIA should use to lock up their Heroin? No. It's just a better lock.
Bump keys are easy to make, even YouTube has videos that show how to make them and which ones are the easiest to make.
This only works if you have a bad door frame, bad door etc. A decent solid core door in a metal frame wouldn't budge for someone's foot.
yeah, the Master Security Doors are some of the best available, but they aren't cheap. I think they start around $2 to $3K on up depending on what you order. you certainly can't kick them in so easily and a battering ram doesn't work with either. They are THE door to look at.
I still prefer an electronic combination lock. As long as you have a working human memory, you have your key wherever you go. The temporary allowance for others to gain entry is nice, but that only works for people savvy enough to know how to use that and who also have an iPhone.
I've wanted something similar for some time. I used to RF unlocking my car door, the ability to start the car with the fob in your pocket. I long expect something similar for house keys.
1) Thieves generally only have "bump keys" in movies.
There are tutorials all over the internet, even videos on yootoob, that show how easy it is to make and use a bump key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
2) This is true of the lock it replaces also.
You're assuming that this is some kind of high-security technology when it's clearly described as simply a regular lock with a few extra features that make it better. On that level, it seems like a great success to me. You pull out the old lock, put this one in and 'boom' ... better lock.
Read again how Kwikset themselves are marketing this lock:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
The Kevo also has support for Kwikset smart key technology, which allows users to re-key the new deadbolt to their old physical key. And the system is backed by what Dumas said is "military-grade encryption" for its wireless entry.
"If you're going to break into this, you might as well break into a bank account," he said.
My original premise stands. It's just another tumbler lock. Nothing secure about it, except to "keep honest people out".
If this guy wants to market "military grade", he should design a better lock, and not just throw Bluetooth into what is inherently an insecure lock design. He of all people knows tumbler locks are selling the illusion of security.
There are tutorials all over the internet, even videos on yootoob, that show how easy it is to make and use a bump key.
Read again how Kwikset themselves are marketing this lock:
My original premise stands. It's just another tumbler lock. Nothing secure about it, except to "keep honest people out".
If this guy wants to market "military grade", he should design a better lock, and not just throw Bluetooth into what is inherently an insecure lock design. He of all people knows tumbler locks are selling the illusion of security.
He said "Military Grade Encryption." The comment refers to the software implementation, not the hardware, which is produced by another company. The hardware is standard issue, consumer grade; you know, like the hardware the vast majority of us already have on our doors. If you want something for your security bunker, this isn't it, and the point was to say that the software does not compromise the security of the standard hardware that it is paired with.
Not to mention that companies like Kwikset and the like have come up with lots of innovations to guard against bumping and other forms of forced entry directly. Obviously there is no way it will ever be 100% foolproof, but they do pair this with their latest hardware (example).
But obviously when they talk about military grade they are referring to the software to guard against external attempts to unlock your door illicitly. The hardware it is paired against is consumer grade but the manufacturers are stepping up physical security too.
However I've installed that type of lock before (on my rental unit because the landlord couldn't guarantee the key), I originally tried the fingerprint reader version, but ... trying to install it is super-fragile, and I suspect trying to install this bluetooth model of essentially the same thing will be the same. So I returned it and bought just the regular rekeyable lock.
But just because it's bump-proof doesn't make it unbreakable. Apparently Qwikset locks are easily defeated
Just keep in mind the qwikset smartlock is better than a tumbler-and-pin design because it's bumpproof, but it's still weak against someone determined to break it.
1) Thieves generally only have "bump keys" in movies.
2) This is true of the lock it replaces also.
You're assuming that this is some kind of high-security technology when it's clearly described as simply a regular lock with a few extra features that make it better. On that level, it seems like a great success to me. You pull out the old lock, put this one in and 'boom' ... better lock.
Is it something the CIA should use to lock up their Heroin? No. It's just a better lock.
1) You're kidding, right? Bump keys are INCREDIBLY easy to get, and they're simple to use.
2) Maybe, maybe not. Kwikset locks are notoriously easy to bump, and are the most common locks out there. More advanced locks like Medeco are pretty much impossible to bump.
It's not a better lock. It's a more gimmicky lock. A better lock makes it harder to get in.
It's a good first step, but I wouldn't want this on my door just yet. Just too many unknown variables to deal with. It has to be rock-solid reliable. In the end, it just won't be as reliable as some dedicated key.
Your door won't open? Is your iPhone battery dead? Do you have bluetooth turned on? Did you get a new phone? Where's my lock manual so I can reprogram it to accept a new phone or delete a phone because my other one got stolen?
We own apartment buildings with smart-locks and as reliable as that is, it still requires some minimal technical knowledge to set these up and administer them. I'm always looking for more modern alternatives and I see a whole world of problems with these. It would be great if these locks can provide a kind of entry logging so that a landlord can monitor who is entering their property and what user entered.
Good first try though. I'm going to keep my eyes on these guys and see what the first-time users think.
Does nobody else find it offensive that a landlord would be monitoring tenants?
i have had this for 2 years. works great, and haven't had any issues. it is straight forward to program in a temporary pin number for a visitor, or have semi-permanent codes for friends & family.
Knock Knock - "who's there" Rapist - "rapist who" Rapist that can now touch your lock and open it from outside because you are close enough with your iPhone to the door!
Hmm%u2026 Really cool gizmo but seems to have fatal flaw without interaction on iPhone itself.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikiman
And what if, when I'm home, my fob or iPhone is sitting close enough to one of these locks to still show their "presence"? My kitchen (where my keys sit and iPhones charge) is less than 20 feet from the door.
I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that their technology can perfectly tell which side of the door it's on 100% of the time.
Hey, Mr. Robber, just tap the lock and come on in!
Aside form the fact that your complaint is something that they specifically say the lock doesn't do ... don't you think that if all the other locks were regular and your's had a glowing blue ring on it, that this alone would be enough to make the robber pick someone else?
I'm tempted to start a side business in locks with glowy blue rings that *appear* to be this kind of lock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
Here's the answer from the Web site:
What happens if I lose my phone?
Simply log into the Kevo app on another smartphone or into the Kevo web portal and disable or delete any eKeys associated with the lock. You will need to use your Kevo Fob or the standard key to unlock the lock until you retrieve or replace your phone.
What I don't get is this: I have 2 locks (same key) on my door, the handle lock and a deadbolt. Are they planning to sell coordinated systems? Without that, this wouldn't work for me and my door (which is the most commet setup, no?).
The UI is obviously web-based.
I think they're saying this is a normal Bluetooth paired device, so you can only have one phone paired with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Jojade
The one thing I see as an immediate problem is the need to replace the batteries.
I used to have an electronic key lock on my door, and had to punch in the code to get in. But when the batteries went dead, I was locked out. Of course I could have just used my key, but if I have to carry my key around just in case, what's the point?
A solution to this problem would be to incorporate a small solar charging panel, either inside or outside. If the batteries alone will last a year, trickle charging with a solar panel seems like an obvious answer. Now, if I can get many years out of it before the batteries give up, that's a better solution.
Brian,
Battery life is one year with typical use and I assure you K?vo provides fair warning when you need to replace your batteries. K?vo also comes with two traditional keys and as with a traditional lock, it’s always a good idea to keep a backup key hidden nearby or at a neighbor’s house. –Phil Dumas
I think the next gen of this tech would be a wifi version that reminds you that you left the door unlocked when you leave some defined proximity, with a push notification, and then gives you the option to lock it remotely. Also, a mode that unlocks the door without taps when you're within 3 feet of the door and then relocks it when you get further away would be nice for those of us that don't lock our doors when we're home; then you'd never have to mess with it at all, and if that were easy to disable, or on a timer so the door locked itself at night, it would be downright ideal.
At any rate, this is well on the way to that, and I will consider picking one up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
1) Thieves generally only have "bump keys" in movies.
2) This is true of the lock it replaces also.
You're assuming that this is some kind of high-security technology when it's clearly described as simply a regular lock with a few extra features that make it better. On that level, it seems like a great success to me. You pull out the old lock, put this one in and 'boom' ... better lock.
Is it something the CIA should use to lock up their Heroin? No. It's just a better lock.
Bump keys are easy to make, even YouTube has videos that show how to make them and which ones are the easiest to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This only works if you have a bad door frame, bad door etc. A decent solid core door in a metal frame wouldn't budge for someone's foot.
yeah, the Master Security Doors are some of the best available, but they aren't cheap. I think they start around $2 to $3K on up depending on what you order. you certainly can't kick them in so easily and a battering ram doesn't work with either. They are THE door to look at.
This lock set is unattractive. That "bezel" is huge. Now if the guts of it could be installed in any decorative bezel that might be interesting.
Iphone has many wonderful applications, but it is too expensive for people to Vietnam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
1) Thieves generally only have "bump keys" in movies.
There are tutorials all over the internet, even videos on yootoob, that show how easy it is to make and use a bump key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
2) This is true of the lock it replaces also.
You're assuming that this is some kind of high-security technology when it's clearly described as simply a regular lock with a few extra features that make it better. On that level, it seems like a great success to me. You pull out the old lock, put this one in and 'boom' ... better lock.
Read again how Kwikset themselves are marketing this lock:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
The Kevo also has support for Kwikset smart key technology, which allows users to re-key the new deadbolt to their old physical key. And the system is backed by what Dumas said is "military-grade encryption" for its wireless entry.
"If you're going to break into this, you might as well break into a bank account," he said.
My original premise stands. It's just another tumbler lock. Nothing secure about it, except to "keep honest people out".
If this guy wants to market "military grade", he should design a better lock, and not just throw Bluetooth into what is inherently an insecure lock design. He of all people knows tumbler locks are selling the illusion of security.
He said "Military Grade Encryption." The comment refers to the software implementation, not the hardware, which is produced by another company. The hardware is standard issue, consumer grade; you know, like the hardware the vast majority of us already have on our doors. If you want something for your security bunker, this isn't it, and the point was to say that the software does not compromise the security of the standard hardware that it is paired with.
Not to mention that companies like Kwikset and the like have come up with lots of innovations to guard against bumping and other forms of forced entry directly. Obviously there is no way it will ever be 100% foolproof, but they do pair this with their latest hardware (example).
But obviously when they talk about military grade they are referring to the software to guard against external attempts to unlock your door illicitly. The hardware it is paired against is consumer grade but the manufacturers are stepping up physical security too.
Actually that lock type is bump-proof, because it doesn't use tumblers. That's why you can re-key it.
http://www.kwikset.com/SmartSecurity/Lock-Bumping-Protection.aspx
However I've installed that type of lock before (on my rental unit because the landlord couldn't guarantee the key), I originally tried the fingerprint reader version, but ... trying to install it is super-fragile, and I suspect trying to install this bluetooth model of essentially the same thing will be the same. So I returned it and bought just the regular rekeyable lock.
But just because it's bump-proof doesn't make it unbreakable. Apparently Qwikset locks are easily defeated
Just keep in mind the qwikset smartlock is better than a tumbler-and-pin design because it's bumpproof, but it's still weak against someone determined to break it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
1) Thieves generally only have "bump keys" in movies.
2) This is true of the lock it replaces also.
You're assuming that this is some kind of high-security technology when it's clearly described as simply a regular lock with a few extra features that make it better. On that level, it seems like a great success to me. You pull out the old lock, put this one in and 'boom' ... better lock.
Is it something the CIA should use to lock up their Heroin? No. It's just a better lock.
1) You're kidding, right? Bump keys are INCREDIBLY easy to get, and they're simple to use.
2) Maybe, maybe not. Kwikset locks are notoriously easy to bump, and are the most common locks out there. More advanced locks like Medeco are pretty much impossible to bump.
It's not a better lock. It's a more gimmicky lock. A better lock makes it harder to get in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
It's a good first step, but I wouldn't want this on my door just yet. Just too many unknown variables to deal with. It has to be rock-solid reliable. In the end, it just won't be as reliable as some dedicated key.
Your door won't open? Is your iPhone battery dead? Do you have bluetooth turned on? Did you get a new phone? Where's my lock manual so I can reprogram it to accept a new phone or delete a phone because my other one got stolen?
We own apartment buildings with smart-locks and as reliable as that is, it still requires some minimal technical knowledge to set these up and administer them. I'm always looking for more modern alternatives and I see a whole world of problems with these. It would be great if these locks can provide a kind of entry logging so that a landlord can monitor who is entering their property and what user entered.
Good first try though. I'm going to keep my eyes on these guys and see what the first-time users think.
Does nobody else find it offensive that a landlord would be monitoring tenants?
i have had this for 2 years. works great, and haven't had any issues. it is straight forward to program in a temporary pin number for a visitor, or have semi-permanent codes for friends & family.
- "who's there"
Rapist
- "rapist who"
Rapist that can now touch your lock and open it from outside because you are close enough with your iPhone to the door!
Hmm%u2026 Really cool gizmo but seems to have fatal flaw without interaction on iPhone itself.