No I was serious. I wasn't aware that just putting a pass code in settings automatically encrypted all the data. Seems rather instantaneous. I would have thought that to encrypt the entire phone would take awhile. Also, the address book is still somewhat available to anyone, even when locked. You can pick up anyone's iPhone and invoke Siri who will willingly display the owner's information just tell her to "Show my info". If it was encrypted what is the point since the information is so easy to acquire, even without knowing the pass code?
An iPhone's content is encrypted by default anyway, not having a pass code means the key is automatically applied just by swiping.
Not from the cops, since they apparently can afford to send it to Apple to be cracked!
As someone mentioned, there's a big cell phone forensics support market out there.
Check out this example tool, where, for older iPhones (up to 4), they claim they can access even encrypted storage. I believe that they download their own loader in DFU mode and use that to grab everything on the phone. You'd never even know they were there.
To your question why should apple pay to decrypt the phones? Because its the right thing for a company to do that is making 13 billion. What is 5 million to ensure public safety?
As far as drugs being legal, you need to consider. Can we afford the increased health costs, the increased addicted, as far as the economy goes, parasites.
It's estimated the amount of people that are addicted (also don't work, steal, worthless from an economy stand point) will at least double, pay for that in your own dollar.
I'm interested where you're getting these numbers about how the number of addicts will double, as if there are millions of people just waiting to try meth but the law is the only thing stopping them.
Secondly, we would first save billions from ending the drug war, which has been a losing battle since its conception and has done absolutely nothing to curtail drug use. Also take into consideration the fact that there are millions of people locked in prisons only for drug charges that the tax payers are paying for.
I'm interested where you're getting these numbers about how the number of addicts will double, as if there are millions of people just waiting to try meth but the law is the only thing stopping them.
Secondly, we would first save billions from ending the drug war, which has been a losing battle since its conception and has done absolutely nothing to curtail drug use. Also take into consideration the fact that there are millions of people locked in prisons only for drug charges that the tax payers are paying for.
How many people would become thieves if money started flying out of armored truck? I don't know about double but more people would try it if it's readily available.
Btw the drug war is most definitely helping. Gone are the days zombie crackheads patrolling the streets for their next hit. Funny how many people fled cities because of crime and drug use and now there's been a huge increase in Heroin use in the suburbs because it's a cheaper alternative to the opiate family of pills.
An iPhone's content is encrypted by default anyway, not having a pass code means the key is automatically applied just by swiping. [/quote]
Not that I am intentionally trying to be thick headed but what is the point of encrypting or even a pass code if you can invoke Siri to bypass the login credentials.
For example a thief could first ask Siri to Show my info without providing the pass code. She complies and after the iPhone thief sees the info and the last name they simply ask show me the info for ' Stone' the last name in my case and Siri will ask which Stone? Then lists out my wife, two brothers, my sister, both my parents and about five children, nieces and nephews, etc. How exactly is encryption helping to keep my phone secure?
You mean that despite the fact that my iPhone is encrypted, my Mac is encrypted, the backup of my iPhone onto my Mac is encrypted, that Apple has some sort of "back door" they can use to break into my data?
You mean that despite the fact that my iPhone is encrypted, my Mac is encrypted, the backup of my iPhone onto my Mac is encrypted, that Apple has some sort of "back door" they can use to break into my data?
WTF is happening to this country?!?!?!
I think they have to. I work for a telecom and when we were switching over to fiber optics phone lines became untappable. The telecom had to figure out how to do it for the government.
You mean that despite the fact that my iPhone is encrypted, my Mac is encrypted, the backup of my iPhone onto my Mac is encrypted, that Apple has some sort of "back door" they can use to break into my data?
There's kind of a trick that anyone can use. You see, the encryption key is usually kept in the clear in RAM, so it can be constantly used to decrypt the data in Flash storage.
Usually that's impossible for an third party app to get to, so it's considered safe.
However, you could use a fake update setup where you force the phone to boot into your own spy code, which dumps the memory contents and figures out where the key is being stored. Heck, maybe even a jailbreak will let you do this.
Supposedly this is more difficult in the latest iOS versions, so perhaps they have some way of hiding the key in a way that's still fast to decode and use.
You mean that despite the fact that my iPhone is encrypted, my Mac is encrypted, the backup of my iPhone onto my Mac is encrypted, that Apple has some sort of "back door" they can use to break into my data?
WTF is happening to this country?!?!?!
Yeah I was a bit perturbed by that. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of encryption to my mind if there is a backdoor as open as that.
Not that I am intentionally trying to be thick headed but what is the point of encrypting or even a pass code if you can invoke Siri to bypass the login credentials.
For example a thief could first ask Siri to Show my info without providing the pass code. She complies and after the iPhone thief sees the info and the last name they simply ask show me the info for ' Stone' the last name in my case and Siri will ask which Stone? Then lists out my wife, two brothers, my sister, both my parents and about five children, nieces and nephews, etc. How exactly is encryption helping to keep my phone secure?
That is a good point. I never thought of that. I just did as you decribed and it did show the contact info. I guess you could just turn Siri off if you were worried about it.
Also, you can't see any emails, photos, texts etc from Siri so I guess it depends on your concept of privacy. Some would argue that there is little there on the contact page that could not be found through other sources like Facebook, Directory etc.
I am a big fan of encryption but as xkcv show so elegantly on a comic, the best encryption in the world can be foiled by a $5 spanner.
You're aware that you're being critical of the iPhone (and its users) because it does its job very, very well? It is truly a secure device. So secure, in fact that government agencies require Apple's aid to decrypt it.
That criminals buy it is neither here nor there. This is a free market economy -- and people be they criminals or otherwise -- are free to own the device that they choose.
The iPhone just happens to be a more secure device than its competition.
Sounds to me that you should be carping on why the other OS's are relatively insecure compared to Apple's offerings.
Apple should tell DEA, we not in that type of business. What people due to their bodies isn't govt business. DEA didn't buy those iPhones, belong to the users , apple have no right to help govt in this area.
Apple should tell DEA, we not in that type of business. What people due to their bodies isn't govt business. DEA didn't buy those iPhones, belong to the users , apple have no right to help govt in this area.
Seeing as how every iPhone needs FCC approval I don't think that would be a good stance to take.
I wonder if the 7 week wait is an actual backlog of 7 weeks - or maybe just a generic answer - or perhaps something else, perhaps along the lines of Apple's legal department spending some time to ensure there are no legal repercussions to Apple for doing so.
It's 7 weeks unless you also want a cable with it, then mysteriously it becomes 12 weeks.
That is a good point. I never thought of that. I just did as you decribed and it did show the contact info. I guess you could just turn Siri off if you were worried about it.
Also, you can't see any emails, photos, texts etc from Siri so I guess it depends on your concept of privacy. Some would argue that there is little there on the contact page that could not be found through other sources like Facebook, Directory etc.
I am a big fan of encryption but as xkcv show so elegantly on a comic, the best encryption in the world can be foiled by a $5 spanner.
On the passcode lock page there is an option to allow/disallow siri access when the device is locked. And for a number of functions you are asked the passcode before you are shown the results of the request. Maybe 'show my info' should do that?
On the passcode lock page there is an option to allow/disallow siri access when the device is locked. And for a number of functions you are asked the passcode before you are shown the results of the request. Maybe 'show my info' should do that?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
No I was serious. I wasn't aware that just putting a pass code in settings automatically encrypted all the data. Seems rather instantaneous. I would have thought that to encrypt the entire phone would take awhile. Also, the address book is still somewhat available to anyone, even when locked. You can pick up anyone's iPhone and invoke Siri who will willingly display the owner's information just tell her to "Show my info". If it was encrypted what is the point since the information is so easy to acquire, even without knowing the pass code?
An iPhone's content is encrypted by default anyway, not having a pass code means the key is automatically applied just by swiping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyBartender
Nice to know my iPhone is nice and secure!
Not from the cops, since they apparently can afford to send it to Apple to be cracked!
As someone mentioned, there's a big cell phone forensics support market out there.
Check out this example tool, where, for older iPhones (up to 4), they claim they can access even encrypted storage. I believe that they download their own loader in DFU mode and use that to grab everything on the phone. You'd never even know they were there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
To your question why should apple pay to decrypt the phones? Because its the right thing for a company to do that is making 13 billion. What is 5 million to ensure public safety?
As far as drugs being legal, you need to consider. Can we afford the increased health costs, the increased addicted, as far as the economy goes, parasites.
It's estimated the amount of people that are addicted (also don't work, steal, worthless from an economy stand point) will at least double, pay for that in your own dollar.
I'm interested where you're getting these numbers about how the number of addicts will double, as if there are millions of people just waiting to try meth but the law is the only thing stopping them.
Secondly, we would first save billions from ending the drug war, which has been a losing battle since its conception and has done absolutely nothing to curtail drug use. Also take into consideration the fact that there are millions of people locked in prisons only for drug charges that the tax payers are paying for.
How many people would become thieves if money started flying out of armored truck? I don't know about double but more people would try it if it's readily available.
Btw the drug war is most definitely helping. Gone are the days zombie crackheads patrolling the streets for their next hit. Funny how many people fled cities because of crime and drug use and now there's been a huge increase in Heroin use in the suburbs because it's a cheaper alternative to the opiate family of pills.
An iPhone's content is encrypted by default anyway, not having a pass code means the key is automatically applied just by swiping.
[/quote]
Not that I am intentionally trying to be thick headed but what is the point of encrypting or even a pass code if you can invoke Siri to bypass the login credentials.
For example a thief could first ask Siri to Show my info without providing the pass code. She complies and after the iPhone thief sees the info and the last name they simply ask show me the info for ' Stone' the last name in my case and Siri will ask which Stone? Then lists out my wife, two brothers, my sister, both my parents and about five children, nieces and nephews, etc. How exactly is encryption helping to keep my phone secure?
Wait a minute here....
You mean that despite the fact that my iPhone is encrypted, my Mac is encrypted, the backup of my iPhone onto my Mac is encrypted, that Apple has some sort of "back door" they can use to break into my data?
WTF is happening to this country?!?!?!
I think they have to. I work for a telecom and when we were switching over to fiber optics phone lines became untappable. The telecom had to figure out how to do it for the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David291
You mean that despite the fact that my iPhone is encrypted, my Mac is encrypted, the backup of my iPhone onto my Mac is encrypted, that Apple has some sort of "back door" they can use to break into my data?
There's kind of a trick that anyone can use. You see, the encryption key is usually kept in the clear in RAM, so it can be constantly used to decrypt the data in Flash storage.
Usually that's impossible for an third party app to get to, so it's considered safe.
However, you could use a fake update setup where you force the phone to boot into your own spy code, which dumps the memory contents and figures out where the key is being stored. Heck, maybe even a jailbreak will let you do this.
Supposedly this is more difficult in the latest iOS versions, so perhaps they have some way of hiding the key in a way that's still fast to decode and use.
Also, you can't see any emails, photos, texts etc from Siri so I guess it depends on your concept of privacy. Some would argue that there is little there on the contact page that could not be found through other sources like Facebook, Directory etc.
I am a big fan of encryption but as xkcv show so elegantly on a comic, the best encryption in the world can be foiled by a $5 spanner.
How safe is FaceTime though? Is it as equally tough to crack and view a FaceTime stream?
You're aware that you're being critical of the iPhone (and its users) because it does its job very, very well? It is truly a secure device. So secure, in fact that government agencies require Apple's aid to decrypt it.
That criminals buy it is neither here nor there. This is a free market economy -- and people be they criminals or otherwise -- are free to own the device that they choose.
The iPhone just happens to be a more secure device than its competition.
Sounds to me that you should be carping on why the other OS's are relatively insecure compared to Apple's offerings.
Seeing as how every iPhone needs FCC approval I don't think that would be a good stance to take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
I wonder if the 7 week wait is an actual backlog of 7 weeks - or maybe just a generic answer - or perhaps something else, perhaps along the lines of Apple's legal department spending some time to ensure there are no legal repercussions to Apple for doing so.
It's 7 weeks unless you also want a cable with it, then mysteriously it becomes 12 weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkiwi
That is a good point. I never thought of that. I just did as you decribed and it did show the contact info. I guess you could just turn Siri off if you were worried about it.
Also, you can't see any emails, photos, texts etc from Siri so I guess it depends on your concept of privacy. Some would argue that there is little there on the contact page that could not be found through other sources like Facebook, Directory etc.
I am a big fan of encryption but as xkcv show so elegantly on a comic, the best encryption in the world can be foiled by a $5 spanner.
On the passcode lock page there is an option to allow/disallow siri access when the device is locked. And for a number of functions you are asked the passcode before you are shown the results of the request. Maybe 'show my info' should do that?