If a brand new iPhone, bought off contract for the full price, and it has manufacturers defects, it's 100% wrong of Apple to replace it with refurbished junk of lesser quality and value. It's also technically illegal (at least in my country) if anyone has the money and the time to take them to court over it, or fix the problem in store if they can.
I'm pretty sure Apple also has a policy on that too. A while ago, I bought a then brand-new 3rd gen iPod touch from Amazon, I turned it on for the first time, and saw it had a intermittently dead pixel. I bought it to a nearby Apple store. Because I had it for less than 14 days, they replaced it with a brand new one, not a refurb.
I know, right? I wonder how many people pay for AppleCare. Apple offers great support, but their products are made so well that I don't see the reason why anyone would buy it. I've never had anything go wrong with any of my iPhones, iPads or MBPs (knock on wood). Kinda seems like you're just throwing money away unless you need the phone support for w/e reason.
Knock hard. You've been lucky. I've had multiple failures. I'm told by others on this forum that my experience is "atypical," but at least a couple others have described experiences similar to my own. I'm not complaining (issues with two service screw-ups notwithstanding), shit happens, but I'd urge you not to get complacent. The universe isn't gonna let you skate forever!
I know, right? I wonder how many people pay for AppleCare. Apple offers great support, but their products are made so well that I don't see the reason why anyone would buy it. I've never had anything go wrong with any of my iPhones, iPads or MBPs (knock on wood). Kinda seems like you're just throwing money away unless you need the phone support for w/e reason.
Knock hard. You've been lucky. I've had multiple failures. I'm told by others on this forum that my experience is "atypical," but at least a couple others have described experiences similar to my own. I'm not complaining (issues with two service screw-ups notwithstanding), shit happens, but I'd urge you not to get complacent. The universe isn't gonna let you skate forever!
'Knock hard'? Nonsense. Your case IS atypical. Otherwise, how do you explain the highest satisfaction ratings in the industry?
'Knock hard'? Nonsense. Your case IS atypical. Otherwise, how do you explain the highest satisfaction ratings in the industry?
"High satisfaction rating" does not necessarily equal "Low failure rate." It may BE that Apple has a low failure rate, and that may even be a contributor to the high satisfaction ratings, but one can't make the leap from "satisfied customers" to assuming "the stuff doesn't break." One can just as easily conclude that Apple customers are satisfied IN SPITE of the occasional failure, which would speak highly of Apple's service. Pedantic, I know, but true none the less.
Since Apple doesn't report failure figures (obviously) all we can do is guess and compare notes. I think a large number of failures simply go unreported and unrepaired. I'm amazed how often one of my co-workers says something like, "Yeah, I've never been able to get the wireless to work so I just use a cable" or "The drive won't work if you plug it in there but the other port works so just use that." Maybe that's just an indication that they're average residents of Lotusland -- laid back to a fault.
I've had more failures with Apple products than with Sony. In every case but one they've resolved it to my satisfaction, and the overall experience is better, so I'm happy to continue buying Apple gear and recommend it to others. My happiness doesn't alter the numbers though.
Please don't forget that you're on my black list - so stop responding to me - you're lucky that i saw your nonsense reply.
Second - please STOP Mislead People.
I can answer for your reply once and for all:
1) Let's read the Warranty Terms of Apple - The REAL Warranty (not extended, don't be so stupid - you already got free year of warranty and not required to buy any extended or additional one - Consumer protection laws), it's clearly stated (quote):
IMPORTANT RESTRICTION FOR iPHONE AND iPAD SERVICE.
Apple may restrict warranty service for iPhone and iPad to the country where Apple or its Authorized Distributors originally sold the device.
2) Why do i need to buy Care+? Why do i even care? There's THE LAW - you have a 1 year of warranty with purchase - they must repair the product in that period without stupid additional warranty. If they are located in Europe they must repair there, but at the same time Apple are separating every warranty obligor in each country which covering only local purchase - they must because of different laws in each country and only the local company (not foreign) can make repair by law in other countries. Worldwide coverage is expensive thing, Apple don't really wanna cover all that millions iphones globally.
3) But even if we try to READ (not throwing the links like you without reading) Terms of Care+ we will found very unpleasantly things (quote):
4.1 Hardware Service and ADH Coverage Area. Apple may restrict hardware service and ADH coverage to the Covered iPhone’s original Country of Purchase.
6.2 Apple reserves the right to change the method by which Apple may provide repair or replacement service to you, and your Covered iPhone’s eligibility to receive a particular method of service. Service will be limited to the options available in the country where you request service. Service options, parts availability and response times may vary according to country. You may be responsible for shipping and handling charges if the Covered iPhone cannot be serviced in the country it is in. If you seek service in a country that is not the country of purchase, you will comply with all applicable import and export laws and regulations and be responsible for all custom duties, V.A.T. and other associated taxes and charges.
(iv) This Plan is offered and valid only in the fifty states of the United States of America and the District of Columbia and all provinces and territories of Canada. This Plan may not be available in all states of the United Sates and in all provinces and territories of Canada, and is not available where prohibited by law.
I don't wanna pay for shipping of my american iPhone from Europe to the USA to be serviced and any other charges. But anyway - i won't buy the extended Care+ even with such terms - the iPhone costs near a thousand dollars (unlocked) - purchasing the warranty for it additionally - this is just ridiculous that such expensive product not coming with normal decent terms of repairability worldwide. That is all. Stop mislead people.
"High satisfaction rating" does not necessarily equal "Low failure rate." It may BE that Apple has a low failure rate, and that may even be a contributor to the high satisfaction ratings, but one can't make the leap from "satisfied customers" to assuming "the stuff doesn't break." One can just as easily conclude that Apple customers are satisfied IN SPITE of the occasional failure, which would speak highly of Apple's service. Pedantic, I know, but true none the less.
Since Apple doesn't report failure figures (obviously) all we can do is guess and compare notes. I think a large number of failures simply go unreported and unrepaired. I'm amazed how often one of my co-workers says something like, "Yeah, I've never been able to get the wireless to work so I just use a cable" or "The drive won't work if you plug it in there but the other port works so just use that." Maybe that's just an indication that they're average residents of Lotusland -- laid back to a fault.
I've had more failures with Apple products than with Sony. In every case but one they've resolved it to my satisfaction, and the overall experience is better, so I'm happy to continue buying Apple gear and recommend it to others. My happiness doesn't alter the numbers though.
There's no reason for most of the rest of us to 'knock hard.' You certainly need to, it would seem. Good luck.
'Knock hard'? Nonsense. Your case IS atypical. Otherwise, how do you explain the highest satisfaction ratings in the industry?
I think Apple gets good ratings partly because they're so quick to replace failed or blemished devices, even for customers who bring back quite a few units before being satisfied.
(We know that Foxconn doesn't do as much checking as they could. Until recently, Foxconn only pulled a few boards from each batch, to check their solder connections. Better factories run every board on the line through an 3D X-ray scanner. Plus there's the recent story of 5-8 million iPhone 5's being returned to Foxconn for blemish and failure reasons.)
This easy replacement policy makes fans out of people who should otherwise be miffed that they had to use up their own time and money to return bad unit(s), instead of the flaws being caught at the factory.
I think Apple gets good ratings partly because they're so quick to replace failed or blemished devices, even for customers who bring back quite a few units before being satisfied.
<span style="line-height:1.231;">(We know that Foxconn doesn't do as much checking as they could. Until recently, Foxconn only pulled a few boards from each batch, to check their solder connections. Better factories run every board on the line through an 3D X-ray scanner. </span>
<span style="line-height:1.231;">Plus there's the recent story of 5-8 million iPhone 5's being returned to Foxconn for blemish and failure reasons.)</span>
This easy replacement policy makes fans out of people who should otherwise be miffed that they had to use up their own time and money to return bad unit(s), instead of the flaws being caught at the factory.
So much fucking FUD per post. :no: You might as well say the big Bengazi scandal is about 5 to 8 million failed iPhones.
Can you name these "better factories" that check at least 75 million boards per quarter per customer, as well as every other component done to their blemishes?
And while you're at it why don't you give us actual figures as to what percentage of Apple's products do have issues?
There's no reason for most of the rest of us to 'knock hard.' You certainly need to, it would seem. Good luck.
I'm not trying to start an argument and I stress that I have NO idea what Apple's overall failure rate is like, but if their stuff is as reliable as some here claim (and sometimes I wonder how many Apple devices such people buy each year), why do I always have to wait at least a day and sometimes two for an appointment at the Genius Bar? We've got five Apple stores for a population of only 2.5 million people. That's only a suburb per store. Somewhere there's a disconnect between anecdotal reports of reliability and casual observation of Apple service's front line.
60k for a fully grown tree? Is the USA a lot more expensive for this type of tree? I looked in the UK and a tree three times the height of a man is around 250GBP. Even they went for a tree four times the height, I don't see where 60k is possible.
Your comment reminded me of the guy who said as a shareholder he was angry that Apple is spending $60,000 per fully grown tree they are having planted on the new campus park grounds and would rather Apple save all those millions and bring in young trees instead. The bigger picture, though, is 13,000 Apple employees seeing all of those big trees as soon as the campus is open, and having a mature looking pasture to inspire them. This may sound sentimental, but it's that thinking that misses the point. The most important people who work at Apple are the creative people, and they, above everyone, need stuff like this to function right. I know I personally get very inspired when I'm in nature, and I especially have a thing for big trees. One good idea from one of those people could easily pay for all of those trees many times over. An idea which may have been a product of the inspiration those very trees provided, and overall the work at Apple would be better as a result. This is what gets missed if you just look at the numbers.
At present, the phone you receive at an Apple Store is not a refurb in the sense that they just took an old phone, wiped it off and cleared it out before passing it on. I know that happens when you buy a refurb from the carriers. The Genius Bar calls it a Remanufactured phone because it is exactly that. All the external surfaces are new. It may have some previously used parts inside but it is given a new unused serial number. It is tested before it goes out to the store. Please do not equate the refurb that you get from AT&T or Verizon with what you get from Apple. There is no comparison.
60k for a fully grown tree? Is the USA a lot more expensive for this type of tree? I looked in the UK and a tree three times the height of a man is around 250GBP. Even they went for a tree four times the height, I don't see where 60k is possible.
I'm talking about large trees. Not merely 17-18 foot trees. And you're forgetting to cost of the tree itself. Some 3 foot Japanese maples can cost 250GBP, so you can imagine what a 45-60 foot oak tree might cost, for example, plus the shipping and delivery of it and the replanting. Not a simple endeavour.
At present, the phone you receive at an Apple Store is not a refurb in the sense that they just took an old phone, wiped it off and cleared it out before passing it on. I know that happens when you buy a refurb from the carriers. The Genius Bar calls it a Remanufactured phone because it is exactly that. All the external surfaces are new. It may have some previously used parts inside but it is given a new unused serial number. It is tested before it goes out to the store. Please do not equate the refurb that you get from AT&T or Verizon with what you get from Apple. There is no comparison.
I'm not trying to start an argument and I stress that I have NO idea what Apple's overall failure rate is like, but if their stuff is as reliable as some here claim (and sometimes I wonder how many Apple devices such people buy each year), why do I always have to wait at least a day and sometimes two for an appointment at the Genius Bar? We've got five Apple stores for a population of only 2.5 million people. That's only a suburb per store. Somewhere there's a disconnect between anecdotal reports of reliability and casual observation of Apple service's front line.
Your posts have transitioned from the anecdotal to FUD to the idiotic.
How many Apple devices are sold? How many Genius Bars are there? How many people are there for hardware (AppleCare) reasons? How many in line? What is the latter as a proportion of the total number of devices sold? (How many other manufacturers have things such as Genius Bars, anyway?). How does this proportion compare to Apple's competitors?
You must get out of bed every day thinking that you are the center of the universe and that your personal experiences must generalize to hundreds of millions of your fellow men. As I said, that borders on the idiotic.
So much fucking FUD per post. You might as well say the big Bengazi scandal is about 5 to 8 million failed iPhones.
Then it's a good thing that nobody made such a ridiculous comparison. Except you.
Quote:
Can you name these "better factories" that check at least 75 million boards per quarter per customer, as well as every other component done to their blemishes?
Major board manufacturers in the US has been using AXI or AOI for the past decade to check every board that goes down the assembly line.
Obviously these QC concerns are not about Apple per se. They're about Foxconn and other factories that rely on hand labor instead of automation. It goes without saying that this lack of automated solder inspection would've affected any electronic product built for any company.
Quote:
And while you're at it why don't you give us actual figures as to what percentage of Apple's products do have issues?
Really, "actual figures"? Apple rarely gives those out, although Steve Jobs did once mention that the 3GS return rate was 6%. Fortunately, there are other sources, both historical and current, which give us data to work with.
Since you brought it up, you go first. It would be interesting to see you do some initial work yourself, instead of sitting back and taking potshots at other people's figures. Thanks in advance.
Please don't forget that you're on my black list - so stop responding to me
lol, no. Get used to it. You obviously care enough to open my replies in the first place, so why bother with sticking your fingers in your ears?
…may… …may…
See, this is the important part. Everything else you highlighted is either irrelevant or so obvious and universal of all warranties and legal agreements as to make your point foolish.
…the iPhone costs near a thousand dollars (unlocked) - purchasing the warranty for it additionally…
It's $748. That's "near a thousand dollars" in the same way San Francisco is "near Seattle". It's nearer than Los Angeles, but…
…this is just ridiculous that such expensive product not coming with normal decent terms of repairability worldwide.
Why should every Apple Store in every country be expected to have at least one of every type of CDMA iPhone on hand?
Comments
A guy who likes nature. That's crazy talk. Only a stoner would like nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
If a brand new iPhone, bought off contract for the full price, and it has manufacturers defects, it's 100% wrong of Apple to replace it with refurbished junk of lesser quality and value. It's also technically illegal (at least in my country) if anyone has the money and the time to take them to court over it, or fix the problem in store if they can.
I'm pretty sure Apple also has a policy on that too. A while ago, I bought a then brand-new 3rd gen iPod touch from Amazon, I turned it on for the first time, and saw it had a intermittently dead pixel. I bought it to a nearby Apple store. Because I had it for less than 14 days, they replaced it with a brand new one, not a refurb.
Wouldn't bank on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmaker
I know, right? I wonder how many people pay for AppleCare. Apple offers great support, but their products are made so well that I don't see the reason why anyone would buy it. I've never had anything go wrong with any of my iPhones, iPads or MBPs (knock on wood). Kinda seems like you're just throwing money away unless you need the phone support for w/e reason.
Knock hard. You've been lucky. I've had multiple failures. I'm told by others on this forum that my experience is "atypical," but at least a couple others have described experiences similar to my own. I'm not complaining (issues with two service screw-ups notwithstanding), shit happens, but I'd urge you not to get complacent. The universe isn't gonna let you skate forever!
'Knock hard'? Nonsense. Your case IS atypical. Otherwise, how do you explain the highest satisfaction ratings in the industry?
Hopefully becoming a better design and quality
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
'Knock hard'? Nonsense. Your case IS atypical. Otherwise, how do you explain the highest satisfaction ratings in the industry?
"High satisfaction rating" does not necessarily equal "Low failure rate." It may BE that Apple has a low failure rate, and that may even be a contributor to the high satisfaction ratings, but one can't make the leap from "satisfied customers" to assuming "the stuff doesn't break." One can just as easily conclude that Apple customers are satisfied IN SPITE of the occasional failure, which would speak highly of Apple's service. Pedantic, I know, but true none the less.
Since Apple doesn't report failure figures (obviously) all we can do is guess and compare notes. I think a large number of failures simply go unreported and unrepaired. I'm amazed how often one of my co-workers says something like, "Yeah, I've never been able to get the wireless to work so I just use a cable" or "The drive won't work if you plug it in there but the other port works so just use that." Maybe that's just an indication that they're average residents of Lotusland -- laid back to a fault.
I've had more failures with Apple products than with Sony. In every case but one they've resolved it to my satisfaction, and the overall experience is better, so I'm happy to continue buying Apple gear and recommend it to others. My happiness doesn't alter the numbers though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Ski
bla-bla
To Tallest Skil
Please don't forget that you're on my black list - so stop responding to me - you're lucky that i saw your nonsense reply.
Second - please STOP Mislead People.
I can answer for your reply once and for all:
1) Let's read the Warranty Terms of Apple - The REAL Warranty (not extended, don't be so stupid - you already got free year of warranty and not required to buy any extended or additional one - Consumer protection laws), it's clearly stated (quote):
IMPORTANT RESTRICTION FOR iPHONE AND iPAD SERVICE.
Apple may restrict warranty service for iPhone and iPad to the country where Apple or its Authorized Distributors originally sold the device.
2) Why do i need to buy Care+? Why do i even care? There's THE LAW - you have a 1 year of warranty with purchase - they must repair the product in that period without stupid additional warranty. If they are located in Europe they must repair there, but at the same time Apple are separating every warranty obligor in each country which covering only local purchase - they must because of different laws in each country and only the local company (not foreign) can make repair by law in other countries. Worldwide coverage is expensive thing, Apple don't really wanna cover all that millions iphones globally.
3) But even if we try to READ (not throwing the links like you without reading) Terms of Care+ we will found very unpleasantly things (quote):
4.1 Hardware Service and ADH Coverage Area. Apple may restrict hardware service and ADH coverage to the Covered iPhone’s original Country of Purchase.
6.2 Apple reserves the right to change the method by which Apple may provide repair or replacement service to you, and your Covered iPhone’s eligibility to receive a particular method of service. Service will be limited to the options available in the country where you request service. Service options, parts availability and response times may vary according to country. You may be responsible for shipping and handling charges if the Covered iPhone cannot be serviced in the country it is in. If you seek service in a country that is not the country of purchase, you will comply with all applicable import and export laws and regulations and be responsible for all custom duties, V.A.T. and other associated taxes and charges.
(iv) This Plan is offered and valid only in the fifty states of the United States of America and the District of Columbia and all provinces and territories of Canada. This Plan may not be available in all states of the United Sates and in all provinces and territories of Canada, and is not available where prohibited by law.
I don't wanna pay for shipping of my american iPhone from Europe to the USA to be serviced and any other charges. But anyway - i won't buy the extended Care+ even with such terms - the iPhone costs near a thousand dollars (unlocked) - purchasing the warranty for it additionally - this is just ridiculous that such expensive product not coming with normal decent terms of repairability worldwide. That is all. Stop mislead people.
There's no reason for most of the rest of us to 'knock hard.' You certainly need to, it would seem. Good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
'Knock hard'? Nonsense. Your case IS atypical. Otherwise, how do you explain the highest satisfaction ratings in the industry?
I think Apple gets good ratings partly because they're so quick to replace failed or blemished devices, even for customers who bring back quite a few units before being satisfied.
(We know that Foxconn doesn't do as much checking as they could. Until recently, Foxconn only pulled a few boards from each batch, to check their solder connections. Better factories run every board on the line through an 3D X-ray scanner. Plus there's the recent story of 5-8 million iPhone 5's being returned to Foxconn for blemish and failure reasons.)
This easy replacement policy makes fans out of people who should otherwise be miffed that they had to use up their own time and money to return bad unit(s), instead of the flaws being caught at the factory.
So much fucking FUD per post. :no: You might as well say the big Bengazi scandal is about 5 to 8 million failed iPhones.
Can you name these "better factories" that check at least 75 million boards per quarter per customer, as well as every other component done to their blemishes?
And while you're at it why don't you give us actual figures as to what percentage of Apple's products do have issues?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
There's no reason for most of the rest of us to 'knock hard.' You certainly need to, it would seem. Good luck.
I'm not trying to start an argument and I stress that I have NO idea what Apple's overall failure rate is like, but if their stuff is as reliable as some here claim (and sometimes I wonder how many Apple devices such people buy each year), why do I always have to wait at least a day and sometimes two for an appointment at the Genius Bar? We've got five Apple stores for a population of only 2.5 million people. That's only a suburb per store. Somewhere there's a disconnect between anecdotal reports of reliability and casual observation of Apple service's front line.
I'm talking about large trees. Not merely 17-18 foot trees. And you're forgetting to cost of the tree itself. Some 3 foot Japanese maples can cost 250GBP, so you can imagine what a 45-60 foot oak tree might cost, for example, plus the shipping and delivery of it and the replanting. Not a simple endeavour.
Just curious where you got this information?
Your posts have transitioned from the anecdotal to FUD to the idiotic.
How many Apple devices are sold? How many Genius Bars are there? How many people are there for hardware (AppleCare) reasons? How many in line? What is the latter as a proportion of the total number of devices sold? (How many other manufacturers have things such as Genius Bars, anyway?). How does this proportion compare to Apple's competitors?
You must get out of bed every day thinking that you are the center of the universe and that your personal experiences must generalize to hundreds of millions of your fellow men. As I said, that borders on the idiotic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So much fucking FUD per post.
Then it's a good thing that nobody made such a ridiculous comparison. Except you.
Quote:
Can you name these "better factories" that check at least 75 million boards per quarter per customer, as well as every other component done to their blemishes?
Major board manufacturers in the US has been using AXI or AOI for the past decade to check every board that goes down the assembly line.
Foxconn only started buying equipment to do that last year.
Obviously these QC concerns are not about Apple per se. They're about Foxconn and other factories that rely on hand labor instead of automation. It goes without saying that this lack of automated solder inspection would've affected any electronic product built for any company.
Quote:
And while you're at it why don't you give us actual figures as to what percentage of Apple's products do have issues?
Really, "actual figures"? Apple rarely gives those out, although Steve Jobs did once mention that the 3GS return rate was 6%. Fortunately, there are other sources, both historical and current, which give us data to work with.
Since you brought it up, you go first. It would be interesting to see you do some initial work yourself, instead of sitting back and taking potshots at other people's figures. Thanks in advance.
Originally Posted by fsad32
Please don't forget that you're on my black list - so stop responding to me
lol, no. Get used to it. You obviously care enough to open my replies in the first place, so why bother with sticking your fingers in your ears?
…may… …may…
See, this is the important part. Everything else you highlighted is either irrelevant or so obvious and universal of all warranties and legal agreements as to make your point foolish.
…the iPhone costs near a thousand dollars (unlocked) - purchasing the warranty for it additionally…
It's $748. That's "near a thousand dollars" in the same way San Francisco is "near Seattle". It's nearer than Los Angeles, but…
…this is just ridiculous that such expensive product not coming with normal decent terms of repairability worldwide.
Why should every Apple Store in every country be expected to have at least one of every type of CDMA iPhone on hand?
That is all. Stop mislead people.
Please do.