And the niche market is worth more than all others combined. It isn't market share driving profits. It is specialty. Think Neiman Marcus, Daimler-Benz, Chanel, LHMV and a few others. When executed well, operating in niche markets is very successful. There is not always a reason to be the largest, especially if you prevent any product line dependencies (I am not saying production lines) with other companies.
Computer business is not the car business. You must maintain critical mass to keep the ecosystem going on. IF Apple gets to low it will start losing its devs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
I think this is more that others are trying to force Apple out of the niche market. Apple has always been a niche market and from what I can tell, they are quite happy in that space, and know how to make huge amounts of money there.
So why don't you and other stop trying to force Apple out of the niche market?
The only niche market Apple ever had is the PC business. ipod, iphones and ipads are not niche markets at all. But the iphone business is on its way there. Getting most of the profit in a market is a double edge sword, Apple better deliver top of the line innovation to justify it or its just overpricing. Apple sales could go down the toilet in a heartbeat if customers start feeling they are not getting what they deserved.
Could have sworn there was an article just a couple weeks ago saying Apple's iphone share INCREASED to 39% last quarter.
World wide vs. US data can be different. Not everyone can afford a $650 phone like the US.
Apple's cheapest phone, the iPhone 4 is still $400 and comes with the stigma of being 3 year old. In places like China, that is a major mental barrier. People want to to buy the latest stuffs, not something released almost 3 years ago. And the price is not too favorable either. A similarly-spec'd Android can be had for $250, and it was released this year. That issue of "the latest" is what Apple must address.
Could have sworn there was an article just a couple weeks ago saying Apple's iphone share INCREASED to 39% last quarter.
YoY growth for iphones sales is around 20% in a market that has 55% growth
YoY growth for ipads is around 40% in a market that has 110% growth.
This is why Apple is getting market share lost.
And the drop on margins gave a lower YoY EPS despite the sales increase. imo this is not a bad thing, Apple margins are too high anyway, but it needs to compesate with bigger volume to keep its YoY EPS.
Long time Apple supporter here from the beginning. I think Apple is alienating its customers. People today have a very low attention span, so when you wait 1 year to always update your phone marginally it leaves your competitors plenty of time to catch up as Samsung, LG and HTC have done. Many pros are ditching Apple as well from Video to Photography. We havent seen a Mac Pro update since 2009, we receive a crappy Final Cut Pro X that doesnt have backward compatibility and has many limiting factors such as Audio. I'm about ready to jump ship. On the touch screen side Apple has pretty much limited its touch screen capability to its iOS instead of OSX. While Microsoft has Windows 8 ( buggy ) but none the less it works.
It seems like forever since I was excited about something Apple has produced. All we keep hearing are about all these new amazing products that are coming in 2013. I'm waiting.
Same here. I've sunk close to $100,000 into Apple products in the past 15 years, professional and personal. As a professional, I'm disheartened by Apple's complete lack of attention to the sector. I can't care less about Mac OS X being touch screen (did Wacom address that sector?) but I can understand if someone want it.
About the personal markets, iOS has not felt "fresh" for years. The iPad carried the same UI from the iPhone. It works, but it's feeling limited as iPad has a much larger screen and much more power. The iPhone 4 was the last true revolutionary production with its Retina screen. Now only if Apple makes it substantially bigger than 3.5" (no, 4" doesn't count as "substantially larger").
Apple's stubborn refusal to listen to the market is biting it back in the ass. They did that to the pro market, now they are doing the same to the personal market. I'm not sure how much of that can be traced to Scott Forstall and his allegedly iron-fist handle of iOS development. But change is much needed at Apple.
Long time Apple supporter here from the beginning. I think Apple is alienating its customers. People today have a very low attention span, so when you wait 1 year to always update your phone marginally it leaves your competitors plenty of time to catch up as Samsung, LG and HTC have done. Many pros are ditching Apple as well from Video to Photography. We havent seen a Mac Pro update since 2009, we receive a crappy Final Cut Pro X that doesnt have backward compatibility and has many limiting factors such as Audio. I'm about ready to jump ship. On the touch screen side Apple has pretty much limited its touch screen capability to its iOS instead of OSX. While Microsoft has Windows 8 ( buggy ) but none the less it works.
It seems like forever since I was excited about something Apple has produced. All we keep hearing are about all these new amazing products that are coming in 2013. I'm waiting.
You have interesting points. I am hoping Apple will at some point merge iOS with OS-X. iOS came from OS-X anyway. We will see how it goes with the new leadership on the software side. iOS is in a bad need of a complete revamp with Android leaping over it in terms of innovation.
On the hardware side, the macpro is a major letdown indeed.
No doubt your analytics firm is infinitely more successful than "idiots" like Gartner, but kindly tell us: for the period covered, what do you imagine is the difference between "sales" and "shipments", and what is the source for your data?
Hey, watch it with your nonsense.
I said "data idiocy" with regard to the manner in which the data are presented, and did not call Gartner "idiots."
As to difference between 'sales' and 'shipments', there is little point in going over it again since it has been discussed ad nauseam here (Hint: channel inventory). And source of my data? Only Apple provides the data to calculate shipment share, so how the heck would I (or you or Gartner) know? Why don't you Fandroids tell us how a methodology that conflates actuals (Apple) with estimates (all others) makes any sense whatsoever?
(Perhaps I should just chalk it up to your lack of ability to read and process basic information).
As to difference between 'sales' and 'shipments', there is little point in going over it again since it has been discussed ad nauseam here (Hint: channel inventory).
I'm not sure you saw Apple's reply to my question on how they arrived at channel inventory numbers.
As to difference between 'sales' and 'shipments', there is little point in going over it again since it has been discussed ad nauseam here (Hint: channel inventory).
I'm not sure you saw Apple's reply to my question on how they arrived at channel inventory numbers.
Long time Apple supporter here from the beginning. I think Apple is alienating its customers. People today have a very low attention span, so when you wait 1 year to always update your phone marginally it leaves your competitors plenty of time to catch up as Samsung, LG and HTC have done. Many pros are ditching Apple as well from Video to Photography. We havent seen a Mac Pro update since 2009, we receive a crappy Final Cut Pro X that doesnt have backward compatibility and has many limiting factors such as Audio. I'm about ready to jump ship. On the touch screen side Apple has pretty much limited its touch screen capability to its iOS instead of OSX. While Microsoft has Windows 8 ( buggy ) but none the less it works.
It seems like forever since I was excited about something Apple has produced. All we keep hearing are about all these new amazing products that are coming in 2013. I'm waiting.
I will agree that you seem to have a very low attention span.
Myself, I have better things to do than wait for Apple's next thing. Did you see those Nazca-like lines that were found in South Africa via Google Maps? What's the story there?
Long time Apple supporter here from the beginning. I think Apple is alienating its customers. People today have a very low attention span, so when you wait 1 year to always update your phone marginally it leaves your competitors plenty of time to catch up as Samsung, LG and HTC have done. Many pros are ditching Apple as well from Video to Photography. We havent seen a Mac Pro update since 2009, we receive a crappy Final Cut Pro X that doesnt have backward compatibility and has many limiting factors such as Audio. I'm about ready to jump ship. On the touch screen side Apple has pretty much limited its touch screen capability to its iOS instead of OSX. While Microsoft has Windows 8 ( buggy ) but none the less it works.
It seems like forever since I was excited about something Apple has produced. All we keep hearing are about all these new amazing products that are coming in 2013. I'm waiting.
First, whenever someone opens with "longtime Apple supporter here" I know they're about to disparage Apple history/strategy pretty thoroughly.
Second, when the post turns out to contain literally every familiar, negative 'talking point' -- presented in almost the exact same order! -- as I've seen rolled into a few dozen other posts on AI comment threads recently, I start to detect a pattern of premeditation. Seriously.
I watch this in the political sphere as well. RNC puts out a list of anti-Obama talking points, which then make the rounds as "opinion" on the Sunday talk show circuit, and THOSE quotes are picked up by the 'news outlets' as crazily consistent headlines (even though they're quoting different people, it all ends up being the same meme).
Back to here: the same kind of background noise, based on a consistent "list" of talking points: The competition is 'catching up', Apple is alienating customers, losing mindshare, no Mac Pro in years, the "Final Cut X fiasco", no 'touch capability' in OSX (cue WIndows comparison)… make sure you use certain adjectives and descriptives: narrow, limited, crappy, ditching Apple, limiting, unexciting...
And then the big fail finish: "Apple just hasn't been EXCITING for a long time"...
I almost expect them to cue Samsung Ad copy: SAMSUNG has the MOST EXCITING products available today!
Either you are paid to be posting here, or you have drunk the Glenn Beck-styled koolaid from the paid-PR 'news' cycle…
Whether or not Apple has lost a couple of points of global market share is almost immaterial. Their products remain hugely in demand, margins (even adjusted) still above the competition by multiples, and their product mix, although appearing "limited" to some, actually satisfies any real needs people have in computing/telephony, etc...
When the hype and gimmicks have faded, Apple still stands as the most used, the highest quality, and the most consistent across the board… I find that pretty exciting myself...
iOS is not like those other luxury products. Chanel does not need to interact with an ecosystem. Apple needs a large user base because it makes no sense to build an entire cloud computing, app and developer platform for a select few users. That is exactly what happened to the Mac in the 80's. There just weren't enough graphic artists in the world to keep the Mac platform growing. iOS must be a mass market consumer electronic platform in order to survive.
A huge market that was served by the original Macintosh, was the financial market. Accountants, stock traders mostly used Macs and later on the initial Powerbooks. It wasn't immediately the choice for graphic artists.
And an ecosystem is only important if your users have the money to spend on it. This is exactly why Android lags in comparison by iOS even that they have a much larger market share. If your users do not have to money to spend, an ecosystem isn't an absolute necessity. Heck, Android is used in many countries on phones where there is no centralized store available or doesn't have a strong 3G coverage, still using 2.5G coverage. Apps are pre-installed in those countries and the phones behave more like feature phones then smart phones.
You have interesting points. I am hoping Apple will at some point merge iOS with OS-X. iOS came from OS-X anyway. We will see how it goes with the new leadership on the software side. iOS is in a bad need of a complete revamp with Android leaping over it in terms of innovation.
On the hardware side, the macpro is a major letdown indeed.
In Europe 2-3 years ago if i saw a smartphone, it was like 95 % apple Iphone.
Now its about 70% Samsung and 30% Apple in Germany.
In Luxembourg 40% Samsung and 60% iPhones.
The problem is, that more and more want to switch to bigger Screens :-(
I love my iPhone, but lets keep realistic!
They have to bring out some big news in the next months :-)
Sounds like 'selective observation' to me.
No question, Samsung has been selling well to the lower end market, using designs that mostly copy what Apple initiated back in '07 with the release of iPhone… But your subjective 70-30 and 60-40 projections don't necessarily reflect real sales numbers, nor do they compare meaningfully. Comparing iPhone to EVERYTHING Samsung makes is silly. That's like comparing cheaper compact class cars in your sales comparisons to Benz E-class sales, and declaring that Ford is "winning" since they sell more of them...
And you're dead wrong about "more and more" wanting to switch to bigger screens. For all the phablet noise, it turns out that the larger screen phones aren't selling nearly as well as they hype will lead you to believe. Recent reports show they still occupy only a tiny niche in the low single digits...
I think that in fact people feel kind of silly holding a huge slab up against the side of their head. Let's hope Apple does NOT go there.
Long time Apple supporter here from the beginning. I think Apple is alienating its customers. People today have a very low attention span, so when you wait 1 year to always update your phone marginally it leaves your competitors plenty of time to catch up as Samsung, LG and HTC have done.
Back to here: the same kind of background noise, based on a consistent "list" of talking points: The competition is 'catching up', Apple is alienating customers, losing mindshare, no Mac Pro in years, the "Final Cut X fiasco", no 'touch capability' in OSX (cue WIndows comparison)… make sure you use certain adjectives and descriptives: narrow, limited, crappy, ditching Apple, limiting, unexciting...
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDutch67
And the niche market is worth more than all others combined. It isn't market share driving profits. It is specialty. Think Neiman Marcus, Daimler-Benz, Chanel, LHMV and a few others. When executed well, operating in niche markets is very successful. There is not always a reason to be the largest, especially if you prevent any product line dependencies (I am not saying production lines) with other companies.
Computer business is not the car business. You must maintain critical mass to keep the ecosystem going on. IF Apple gets to low it will start losing its devs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Getz
I think this is more that others are trying to force Apple out of the niche market. Apple has always been a niche market and from what I can tell, they are quite happy in that space, and know how to make huge amounts of money there.
So why don't you and other stop trying to force Apple out of the niche market?
The only niche market Apple ever had is the PC business. ipod, iphones and ipads are not niche markets at all. But the iphone business is on its way there. Getting most of the profit in a market is a double edge sword, Apple better deliver top of the line innovation to justify it or its just overpricing. Apple sales could go down the toilet in a heartbeat if customers start feeling they are not getting what they deserved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejsmith6852
Could have sworn there was an article just a couple weeks ago saying Apple's iphone share INCREASED to 39% last quarter.
World wide vs. US data can be different. Not everyone can afford a $650 phone like the US.
Apple's cheapest phone, the iPhone 4 is still $400 and comes with the stigma of being 3 year old. In places like China, that is a major mental barrier. People want to to buy the latest stuffs, not something released almost 3 years ago. And the price is not too favorable either. A similarly-spec'd Android can be had for $250, and it was released this year. That issue of "the latest" is what Apple must address.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejsmith6852
Could have sworn there was an article just a couple weeks ago saying Apple's iphone share INCREASED to 39% last quarter.
YoY growth for iphones sales is around 20% in a market that has 55% growth
YoY growth for ipads is around 40% in a market that has 110% growth.
This is why Apple is getting market share lost.
And the drop on margins gave a lower YoY EPS despite the sales increase. imo this is not a bad thing, Apple margins are too high anyway, but it needs to compesate with bigger volume to keep its YoY EPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Carpenter
Long time Apple supporter here from the beginning. I think Apple is alienating its customers. People today have a very low attention span, so when you wait 1 year to always update your phone marginally it leaves your competitors plenty of time to catch up as Samsung, LG and HTC have done. Many pros are ditching Apple as well from Video to Photography. We havent seen a Mac Pro update since 2009, we receive a crappy Final Cut Pro X that doesnt have backward compatibility and has many limiting factors such as Audio. I'm about ready to jump ship. On the touch screen side Apple has pretty much limited its touch screen capability to its iOS instead of OSX. While Microsoft has Windows 8 ( buggy ) but none the less it works.
It seems like forever since I was excited about something Apple has produced. All we keep hearing are about all these new amazing products that are coming in 2013. I'm waiting.
Same here. I've sunk close to $100,000 into Apple products in the past 15 years, professional and personal. As a professional, I'm disheartened by Apple's complete lack of attention to the sector. I can't care less about Mac OS X being touch screen (did Wacom address that sector?) but I can understand if someone want it.
About the personal markets, iOS has not felt "fresh" for years. The iPad carried the same UI from the iPhone. It works, but it's feeling limited as iPad has a much larger screen and much more power. The iPhone 4 was the last true revolutionary production with its Retina screen. Now only if Apple makes it substantially bigger than 3.5" (no, 4" doesn't count as "substantially larger").
Apple's stubborn refusal to listen to the market is biting it back in the ass. They did that to the pro market, now they are doing the same to the personal market. I'm not sure how much of that can be traced to Scott Forstall and his allegedly iron-fist handle of iOS development. But change is much needed at Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Carpenter
Long time Apple supporter here from the beginning. I think Apple is alienating its customers. People today have a very low attention span, so when you wait 1 year to always update your phone marginally it leaves your competitors plenty of time to catch up as Samsung, LG and HTC have done. Many pros are ditching Apple as well from Video to Photography. We havent seen a Mac Pro update since 2009, we receive a crappy Final Cut Pro X that doesnt have backward compatibility and has many limiting factors such as Audio. I'm about ready to jump ship. On the touch screen side Apple has pretty much limited its touch screen capability to its iOS instead of OSX. While Microsoft has Windows 8 ( buggy ) but none the less it works.
It seems like forever since I was excited about something Apple has produced. All we keep hearing are about all these new amazing products that are coming in 2013. I'm waiting.
You have interesting points. I am hoping Apple will at some point merge iOS with OS-X. iOS came from OS-X anyway. We will see how it goes with the new leadership on the software side. iOS is in a bad need of a complete revamp with Android leaping over it in terms of innovation.
On the hardware side, the macpro is a major letdown indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez
No doubt your analytics firm is infinitely more successful than "idiots" like Gartner, but kindly tell us: for the period covered, what do you imagine is the difference between "sales" and "shipments", and what is the source for your data?
Hey, watch it with your nonsense.
I said "data idiocy" with regard to the manner in which the data are presented, and did not call Gartner "idiots."
As to difference between 'sales' and 'shipments', there is little point in going over it again since it has been discussed ad nauseam here (Hint: channel inventory). And source of my data? Only Apple provides the data to calculate shipment share, so how the heck would I (or you or Gartner) know? Why don't you Fandroids tell us how a methodology that conflates actuals (Apple) with estimates (all others) makes any sense whatsoever?
(Perhaps I should just chalk it up to your lack of ability to read and process basic information).
Where did Gartner get 38.3 million iPhones shipped? Didn't Apple report 37.4 million sales?
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
iOS is in a bad need of a complete revamp with Android leaping over it in terms of innovation.
Then why don't you just stop whining and switch, and spare us your wisdom.
You can wander off to one of those Android sites too, for all we care..... (I am sure there must be some; don't know which, if any, to recommend).
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
As to difference between 'sales' and 'shipments', there is little point in going over it again since it has been discussed ad nauseam here (Hint: channel inventory).
I'm not sure you saw Apple's reply to my question on how they arrived at channel inventory numbers.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157459/googles-android-on-59-5-of-all-smart-mobile-devices-shipped-in-q1-apple-at-19-3/80#post_2326160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
As to difference between 'sales' and 'shipments', there is little point in going over it again since it has been discussed ad nauseam here (Hint: channel inventory).
I'm not sure you saw Apple's reply to my question on how they arrived at channel inventory numbers.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157459/googles-android-on-59-5-of-all-smart-mobile-devices-shipped-in-q1-apple-at-19-3/80#post_2326160
I commend you on that post, and thank you for the link. We all can (and will) certainly read into Apple's response what we wish to.
Just curious: do you think you might ask Samsung IR why they don't report shipment volumes or discuss channel inventory? Here's the link I got from their IR page: https://contactus.samsung.com/customer/contactus/formmail/mail/MailQuestionGeneral.jsp?SITE_ID=76&PROD_ID=2088
I will agree that you seem to have a very low attention span.
Myself, I have better things to do than wait for Apple's next thing. Did you see those Nazca-like lines that were found in South Africa via Google Maps? What's the story there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Carpenter
Long time Apple supporter here from the beginning. I think Apple is alienating its customers. People today have a very low attention span, so when you wait 1 year to always update your phone marginally it leaves your competitors plenty of time to catch up as Samsung, LG and HTC have done. Many pros are ditching Apple as well from Video to Photography. We havent seen a Mac Pro update since 2009, we receive a crappy Final Cut Pro X that doesnt have backward compatibility and has many limiting factors such as Audio. I'm about ready to jump ship. On the touch screen side Apple has pretty much limited its touch screen capability to its iOS instead of OSX. While Microsoft has Windows 8 ( buggy ) but none the less it works.
It seems like forever since I was excited about something Apple has produced. All we keep hearing are about all these new amazing products that are coming in 2013. I'm waiting.
First, whenever someone opens with "longtime Apple supporter here" I know they're about to disparage Apple history/strategy pretty thoroughly.
Second, when the post turns out to contain literally every familiar, negative 'talking point' -- presented in almost the exact same order! -- as I've seen rolled into a few dozen other posts on AI comment threads recently, I start to detect a pattern of premeditation. Seriously.
I watch this in the political sphere as well. RNC puts out a list of anti-Obama talking points, which then make the rounds as "opinion" on the Sunday talk show circuit, and THOSE quotes are picked up by the 'news outlets' as crazily consistent headlines (even though they're quoting different people, it all ends up being the same meme).
Back to here: the same kind of background noise, based on a consistent "list" of talking points: The competition is 'catching up', Apple is alienating customers, losing mindshare, no Mac Pro in years, the "Final Cut X fiasco", no 'touch capability' in OSX (cue WIndows comparison)… make sure you use certain adjectives and descriptives: narrow, limited, crappy, ditching Apple, limiting, unexciting...
And then the big fail finish: "Apple just hasn't been EXCITING for a long time"...
I almost expect them to cue Samsung Ad copy: SAMSUNG has the MOST EXCITING products available today!
Either you are paid to be posting here, or you have drunk the Glenn Beck-styled koolaid from the paid-PR 'news' cycle…
Whether or not Apple has lost a couple of points of global market share is almost immaterial. Their products remain hugely in demand, margins (even adjusted) still above the competition by multiples, and their product mix, although appearing "limited" to some, actually satisfies any real needs people have in computing/telephony, etc...
When the hype and gimmicks have faded, Apple still stands as the most used, the highest quality, and the most consistent across the board… I find that pretty exciting myself...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
iOS is not like those other luxury products. Chanel does not need to interact with an ecosystem. Apple needs a large user base because it makes no sense to build an entire cloud computing, app and developer platform for a select few users. That is exactly what happened to the Mac in the 80's. There just weren't enough graphic artists in the world to keep the Mac platform growing. iOS must be a mass market consumer electronic platform in order to survive.
A huge market that was served by the original Macintosh, was the financial market. Accountants, stock traders mostly used Macs and later on the initial Powerbooks. It wasn't immediately the choice for graphic artists.
And an ecosystem is only important if your users have the money to spend on it. This is exactly why Android lags in comparison by iOS even that they have a much larger market share. If your users do not have to money to spend, an ecosystem isn't an absolute necessity. Heck, Android is used in many countries on phones where there is no centralized store available or doesn't have a strong 3G coverage, still using 2.5G coverage. Apps are pre-installed in those countries and the phones behave more like feature phones then smart phones.
OS X will never merge with iOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamracer
In Europe 2-3 years ago if i saw a smartphone, it was like 95 % apple Iphone.
Now its about 70% Samsung and 30% Apple in Germany.
In Luxembourg 40% Samsung and 60% iPhones.
The problem is, that more and more want to switch to bigger Screens :-(
I love my iPhone, but lets keep realistic!
They have to bring out some big news in the next months :-)
Sounds like 'selective observation' to me.
No question, Samsung has been selling well to the lower end market, using designs that mostly copy what Apple initiated back in '07 with the release of iPhone… But your subjective 70-30 and 60-40 projections don't necessarily reflect real sales numbers, nor do they compare meaningfully. Comparing iPhone to EVERYTHING Samsung makes is silly. That's like comparing cheaper compact class cars in your sales comparisons to Benz E-class sales, and declaring that Ford is "winning" since they sell more of them...
And you're dead wrong about "more and more" wanting to switch to bigger screens. For all the phablet noise, it turns out that the larger screen phones aren't selling nearly as well as they hype will lead you to believe. Recent reports show they still occupy only a tiny niche in the low single digits...
I think that in fact people feel kind of silly holding a huge slab up against the side of their head. Let's hope Apple does NOT go there.
How often do you update your phone?
deleted
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
Back to here: the same kind of background noise, based on a consistent "list" of talking points: The competition is 'catching up', Apple is alienating customers, losing mindshare, no Mac Pro in years, the "Final Cut X fiasco", no 'touch capability' in OSX (cue WIndows comparison)… make sure you use certain adjectives and descriptives: narrow, limited, crappy, ditching Apple, limiting, unexciting...
Spot on.
These fools think we don't notice.....