What does Samsung have to do with the SEC? Are they required to file financial statements with the SEC since they're not an American company and aren't listed on any of our stock exchanges?
You are in over your head with me..... as a company that has public, US dollar bonds, held by US funds, your damn right the SEC has the power to come down hard on them if they are out telling lies.
I'm also in red numbers with my stake in AAPL, but I don't expect or want to change the Apple. Apple may have me disappointed in some ways, but there is nothing more disappointing than holding in hands the phone you praise so much.
Apple opens the markets and doesn't hold market shares. Live with it. Write off the loss and buy GOOG bubble.
I'm in the red too, but am in it for the long haul. I think for my sanity I'm going to stop following the stock movement. Clearly Apple the company and APPL the stock don't have much to do with each other. The stock goes up and down for no real reason and often times goes down based on very sketchy stuff, like some translated rumor about the supply chain in Asia. Or the media making stuff up like falling demand of iPhone or iPad. I'd love it if some day Apple could go private and not have to deal with this Wall Street bullshit.
The point isn't whether Samsung will sell 6M or 10M S4s, it's that someone reported it here as if 6M phones were in customers hands already and 10M would be by the end of the month. The real story is that's how many were stuffed in the channel and we don't know how many yet were sold to consumers. When Apple 5M iPhone 5s sold in 3 days we can assume those were sales to consumers as the phone was out of stock pretty much everywhere you went.
I don't think that's a safe assumption at all. Apple has to fill the channel when a new iPhone model ships, no differently than Samsung has to with the S4. As far as Apple is concerned those 5M iPhones became a sale as soon as a carrier or retailer took delivery.
I'm also in red numbers with my stake in AAPL, but I don't expect or want to change the Apple. Apple may have me disappointed in some ways, but there is nothing more disappointing than holding in hands the phone you praise so much.
Apple opens the markets and doesn't hold market shares. Live with it. Write off the loss and buy GOOG bubble.
All Apple have to do is to give not only 4 inch iPhonebut also 5 inch
iPhone to customers. Apple can get more market share and more
profits by this.
Apple have to innovate their obsolete set of mind.
You are in over your head with me..... as a company that has public, US dollar bonds, issued under US laws, held by US funds, your damn right the SEC has the power to come down hard on them if they are out telling lies.
You are in over your head with me..... as a company that has public, US dollar bonds, held by US funds, your damn right the SEC has the power to come down hard on them if they are out telling lies.
If Samsung says there are 6M S4s in the channel and the expect to have 10M by end of month, and that gets translates into Samsung sells 6M Galaxy S4 phones it might not be a lie and certainly not anything the SEC is going to care about. Especially when they're not filing any management discussion and analysis that contains sales figures. But it is deceiving making people think the phone is selling like hotcakes, yet when you go online it's in stock, and at stores too.
If Samsung says there are 6M S4s in the channel and the expect to have 10M by end of month, and that gets translates into Samsung sells 6M Galaxy S4 phones it might not be a lie and certainly not anything the SEC is going to care about. Especially when they're not filing any management discussion and analysis that contains sales figures. But it is deceiving making people think the phone is selling like hotcakes, yet when you go online it's in stock, and at stores too.
Using that logic, the Apple 5S is available anywhere now immediately, so Apple's reported sales this quarter and last are absolutely no different than Samsung's...they include sales into the channel as sales, not just end-user sales. Its Apples to Apples if both are fully available.
High quality moderation at this site. I'm starting to think you are a 10 year old. You should be proud of yourself, having told me to "shut up" a couple times in the last day, that is really an intelligent, well thought out argument to my criticism, Sadly, its probably the best you can come up with.
All Apple have to do is to give not only 4 inch iPhonebut also 5 inch
iPhone to customers. Apple can get more market share and more
profits by this.
Apple have to innovate their obsolete set of mind.
yeah, right!
this is how they do it in crappy Android world and that't why we have to make number of different designs, graphics, screens and view controllers....
You were told by TC exactly what the problems is: if it was possible to make it in a satisfactory way, then it would be on the market already. It is not just the battery, but also screen yields on quality LCD's such as Apple wants to have. With new screen there has to come also new dpi, which has to be at least 550dpi to support 4x screen coordinate factor. Apple doesn't just throw crap on the market for its own sake, you know...
Actually, I like TC more and more: he tells all of them almost everything, but idiots just don't listen ....
Another thing is that I do not believe I can put even 4.5 inch phones in my pocket. Not sure if I want to. perhaps 4.5, but never 5". When I look all those sorry asses with broken glass Samsdungs, with its disgusting screen colors, I can only say that majority of people always buys quantity over quality. How long has BMW produced only sedans? Even today they produce little more than that. But whatever they make, they are the best? DO they have leading market share? No.
While I am at it. To those kids (AKA f@@ling trolls) who failed history lessons.
Last time when Apple was almost driven to the ground was all because of some morons like you lot - chasing market share and trying to be "the other guy". The new Apple (they even have a name change, do you know) is not the other guy. If you lots are so good with how to run one of the world largest company. I would love to see your real name and check against the top 500 global companies directors registration.
I won't tell Apple what to do. Because I can't. And So do you.
The reason Apple was run to the ground was because , in the early 1990's it kept huge profit margins reducing it's share of a rapidly growing market to 5% from 12%. Had it competed on price earlier it would have no need to compete - too much, too late - later.
This is playing out like that. The time for cheap iPhones was last year.
And do we have to be top executives to criticise Apple, or any other company. Can we criticize Elop? Ballmer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
High quality moderation at this site. I'm starting to think you are a 10 year old. You should be proud of yourself, having told me to "shut up" a couple times in the last day, that is really an intelligent, well thought out argument to my criticism, Sadly, its probably the best you can come up with.
I agree, however as a moderator he doesn't act unfairly. So I see TS as wearing two hats - moderator, good enough, poster - a bit odd.
You are in over your head with me..... as a company that has public, US dollar bonds, held by US funds, your damn right the SEC has the power to come down hard on them if they are out telling lies.
According to the TechCrunch article, the shipment figures came from a Samsung spokesman speaking on a Korean website. So the SEC would have no power to do anything since the statement wasn't made in the US, it was simply being reported.
Now, the Korean government could investigate, but since the head of Samsung has been convicted and jailed on charges of conspiracy, embezzlement, bribery and tax evasion and then pardoned by the government so he could serve on the Olympic committee, then I don't think any figures Samsung release are going to face any real scrutiny, whether they are true or not.
High quality moderation at this site. I'm starting to think you are a 10 year old. You should be proud of yourself, having told me to "shut up" a couple times in the last day, that is really an intelligent, well thought out argument to my criticism, Sadly, its probably the best you can come up with.
When Apple 5M iPhone 5s sold in 3 days we can assume those were sales to consumers as the phone was out of stock pretty much everywhere you went.
No sir, they were not all sales to end users. In fact, that's why analysts were so unhappy with the first weekend having "only" one million more than the iPhone 4S a year prior, which was in two fewer countries. Everyone had expected a lot more sales the first weekend, because those sales include retailers filling inventory. Thus it was seen as a case of retailers holding back due to low expected demand. (*)
For example, among others, ISI Group's Brian Marshall noted: "Clarification - recall the 5mil+ iPhone 5 reported sales only takes into consideration: 1) what was sold into partners (e.g., retail outlets, carriers, etc.), 2) sold in AAPL retail stores, and 3) direct to customers only if they signed for the device."
Btw, #3 often confuses people, because Apple also reports presale numbers, many of which are not part of sales yet because they haven't been delivered yet. Apple does not report direct end user sales until delivery. Thus we can often ADD presales on top of the first weekend sales, to get a better idea of how many have actually been purchased by both end users and retailers.
(*) However, as it turned out later, the real cause for such low shipments was probably production problems with the aluminum case. (Everyone had wrongly assumed that Cook, being a supply chain expert, wouldn't have had such supply problems.)
(Everyone had wrongly assumed that Cook, being a supply chain expert, wouldn't have had such supply problems.)
When you're trying out bleeding edge manufacturing processes, sometimes you bleed. Fact of life. Unless Apple decides to make life easier for itself by returning to regular ways of building stuff then don't expect this to be last time it happens.
It would be nice to see some studies by these analysts every quarter on which companies sold how many *profitable* phones. Just limit it to handsets that profit the company by at least $25 each. Should be a very short list and simple study....
Because I'm down a few hundred k on the stock and venting. I haven't responded to any of the name calling or disparaging remarks, I have only criticized Tim Cook, which many people do away from this site. I hope Apple employees look here and see that there is intense displeasure by some in their recent actions and that they change the way they've been operating lately. Am I delusional enough to think anything I say will make a difference? No, but who really thinks anything said on any internet forum has a material impact on anything. I'd ask why are all the other posters here? Do they have Apple pom-poms at home and simply enjoy telling the world this company can do no wrong?
I really don't understand all this doom and gloom stuff. Apple is growing at a healthy rate. Is it as fast as the growth that it experienced in the initial 5 years? No, but it's still growing at a very healthy rate. Is it growing as fast as the smart phone market is expanding? No, but I can't rationalize it to myself how that actually matters to Apple's growth, success, and overall profit. I guess I am in the camp that would rather see slow steady growth with little dips vs. fast growth and severe crashes. Just as I would rather loose weight slowly and consistently rather then binge dieting followed by binge eating. By the looks of Androids amazing growth and their continued growth upon growth, they will have everyone on the planet within a few years... and then what? Apple will still be growing and all other manufactures will be having to fight even harder and more cut-throat for the scraps because there is no where left for them to grow.
However, having said that, I do see the concern with market share when it comes to data mining. Which is what google is chasing hard without having to actually spend it's money (brilliant BTW, not something I completely agree with, but brilliant none-the-less). Obviously the bigger pool to mine from means more information extracted (whether the information is valuable or not is not what I'm debating). What it can contribute enormously to is value for customers. More information can lead to greater success when it comes to predicting behavior of the masses and then providing you that information the moment you need it without you having to search for it or even realize that you need it. However, what sample size is required to provide sufficient information for this to be possible? Don't know... not a statistician, but if 100 million is a big enough sample size then Apple (i.e. purchasers of apple products) need not worry.
So to paraphrase many posters on matters that really don't matter... nothing to see hear.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
What does Samsung have to do with the SEC? Are they required to file financial statements with the SEC since they're not an American company and aren't listed on any of our stock exchanges?
You are in over your head with me..... as a company that has public, US dollar bonds, held by US funds, your damn right the SEC has the power to come down hard on them if they are out telling lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
The point isn't whether Samsung will sell 6M or 10M S4s, it's that someone reported it here as if 6M phones were in customers hands already and 10M would be by the end of the month. The real story is that's how many were stuffed in the channel and we don't know how many yet were sold to consumers. When Apple 5M iPhone 5s sold in 3 days we can assume those were sales to consumers as the phone was out of stock pretty much everywhere you went.
I don't think that's a safe assumption at all. Apple has to fill the channel when a new iPhone model ships, no differently than Samsung has to with the S4. As far as Apple is concerned those 5M iPhones became a sale as soon as a carrier or retailer took delivery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi
I'm also in red numbers with my stake in AAPL, but I don't expect or want to change the Apple. Apple may have me disappointed in some ways, but there is nothing more disappointing than holding in hands the phone you praise so much.
Apple opens the markets and doesn't hold market shares. Live with it. Write off the loss and buy GOOG bubble.
All Apple have to do is to give not only 4 inch iPhone but also 5 inch
iPhone to customers. Apple can get more market share and more
profits by this.
Apple have to innovate their obsolete set of mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
You are in over your head with me..... as a company that has public, US dollar bonds, issued under US laws, held by US funds, your damn right the SEC has the power to come down hard on them if they are out telling lies.
Originally Posted by zvzax
All Apple have to do is to give not only 4 inch iPhone but also 5 inch iPhone to customers.
Why?
Apple can get more market share and more profits by this.
What makes you think that?
Apple have to innovate their obsolete set of mind.
You mean the one that invented the modern smartphone market?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
If Samsung says there are 6M S4s in the channel and the expect to have 10M by end of month, and that gets translates into Samsung sells 6M Galaxy S4 phones it might not be a lie and certainly not anything the SEC is going to care about. Especially when they're not filing any management discussion and analysis that contains sales figures. But it is deceiving making people think the phone is selling like hotcakes, yet when you go online it's in stock, and at stores too.
Using that logic, the Apple 5S is available anywhere now immediately, so Apple's reported sales this quarter and last are absolutely no different than Samsung's...they include sales into the channel as sales, not just end-user sales. Its Apples to Apples if both are fully available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why?
What makes you think that?
You mean the one that invented the modern smartphone market?
>>Why?>>
Because a LOT of customers want it.
Originally Posted by jdnc123
Because a LOT of customers want it.
Leave our website.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Leave our website.
High quality moderation at this site. I'm starting to think you are a 10 year old. You should be proud of yourself, having told me to "shut up" a couple times in the last day, that is really an intelligent, well thought out argument to my criticism, Sadly, its probably the best you can come up with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zvzax
All Apple have to do is to give not only 4 inch iPhone but also 5 inch
iPhone to customers. Apple can get more market share and more
profits by this.
Apple have to innovate their obsolete set of mind.
yeah, right!
this is how they do it in crappy Android world and that't why we have to make number of different designs, graphics, screens and view controllers....
You were told by TC exactly what the problems is: if it was possible to make it in a satisfactory way, then it would be on the market already. It is not just the battery, but also screen yields on quality LCD's such as Apple wants to have. With new screen there has to come also new dpi, which has to be at least 550dpi to support 4x screen coordinate factor. Apple doesn't just throw crap on the market for its own sake, you know...
Actually, I like TC more and more: he tells all of them almost everything, but idiots just don't listen ....
Another thing is that I do not believe I can put even 4.5 inch phones in my pocket. Not sure if I want to. perhaps 4.5, but never 5". When I look all those sorry asses with broken glass Samsdungs, with its disgusting screen colors, I can only say that majority of people always buys quantity over quality. How long has BMW produced only sedans? Even today they produce little more than that. But whatever they make, they are the best? DO they have leading market share? No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelchu
While I am at it. To those kids (AKA f@@ling trolls) who failed history lessons.
Last time when Apple was almost driven to the ground was all because of some morons like you lot - chasing market share and trying to be "the other guy". The new Apple (they even have a name change, do you know) is not the other guy. If you lots are so good with how to run one of the world largest company. I would love to see your real name and check against the top 500 global companies directors registration.
I won't tell Apple what to do. Because I can't. And So do you.
The reason Apple was run to the ground was because , in the early 1990's it kept huge profit margins reducing it's share of a rapidly growing market to 5% from 12%. Had it competed on price earlier it would have no need to compete - too much, too late - later.
This is playing out like that. The time for cheap iPhones was last year.
And do we have to be top executives to criticise Apple, or any other company. Can we criticize Elop? Ballmer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
High quality moderation at this site. I'm starting to think you are a 10 year old. You should be proud of yourself, having told me to "shut up" a couple times in the last day, that is really an intelligent, well thought out argument to my criticism, Sadly, its probably the best you can come up with.
I agree, however as a moderator he doesn't act unfairly. So I see TS as wearing two hats - moderator, good enough, poster - a bit odd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
You are in over your head with me..... as a company that has public, US dollar bonds, held by US funds, your damn right the SEC has the power to come down hard on them if they are out telling lies.
According to the TechCrunch article, the shipment figures came from a Samsung spokesman speaking on a Korean website. So the SEC would have no power to do anything since the statement wasn't made in the US, it was simply being reported.
Now, the Korean government could investigate, but since the head of Samsung has been convicted and jailed on charges of conspiracy, embezzlement, bribery and tax evasion and then pardoned by the government so he could serve on the Olympic committee, then I don't think any figures Samsung release are going to face any real scrutiny, whether they are true or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123
High quality moderation at this site. I'm starting to think you are a 10 year old. You should be proud of yourself, having told me to "shut up" a couple times in the last day, that is really an intelligent, well thought out argument to my criticism, Sadly, its probably the best you can come up with.
The question remains: why are you here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
When Apple 5M iPhone 5s sold in 3 days we can assume those were sales to consumers as the phone was out of stock pretty much everywhere you went.
No sir, they were not all sales to end users. In fact, that's why analysts were so unhappy with the first weekend having "only" one million more than the iPhone 4S a year prior, which was in two fewer countries. Everyone had expected a lot more sales the first weekend, because those sales include retailers filling inventory. Thus it was seen as a case of retailers holding back due to low expected demand. (*)
For example, among others, ISI Group's Brian Marshall noted: "Clarification - recall the 5mil+ iPhone 5 reported sales only takes into consideration: 1) what was sold into partners (e.g., retail outlets, carriers, etc.), 2) sold in AAPL retail stores, and 3) direct to customers only if they signed for the device."
Btw, #3 often confuses people, because Apple also reports presale numbers, many of which are not part of sales yet because they haven't been delivered yet. Apple does not report direct end user sales until delivery. Thus we can often ADD presales on top of the first weekend sales, to get a better idea of how many have actually been purchased by both end users and retailers.
(*) However, as it turned out later, the real cause for such low shipments was probably production problems with the aluminum case. (Everyone had wrongly assumed that Cook, being a supply chain expert, wouldn't have had such supply problems.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
(Everyone had wrongly assumed that Cook, being a supply chain expert, wouldn't have had such supply problems.)
When you're trying out bleeding edge manufacturing processes, sometimes you bleed. Fact of life. Unless Apple decides to make life easier for itself by returning to regular ways of building stuff then don't expect this to be last time it happens.
It would be nice to see some studies by these analysts every quarter on which companies sold how many *profitable* phones. Just limit it to handsets that profit the company by at least $25 each. Should be a very short list and simple study....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PScooter63
The question remains: why are you here?
Because I'm down a few hundred k on the stock and venting. I haven't responded to any of the name calling or disparaging remarks, I have only criticized Tim Cook, which many people do away from this site. I hope Apple employees look here and see that there is intense displeasure by some in their recent actions and that they change the way they've been operating lately. Am I delusional enough to think anything I say will make a difference? No, but who really thinks anything said on any internet forum has a material impact on anything. I'd ask why are all the other posters here? Do they have Apple pom-poms at home and simply enjoy telling the world this company can do no wrong?
I really don't understand all this doom and gloom stuff. Apple is growing at a healthy rate. Is it as fast as the growth that it experienced in the initial 5 years? No, but it's still growing at a very healthy rate. Is it growing as fast as the smart phone market is expanding? No, but I can't rationalize it to myself how that actually matters to Apple's growth, success, and overall profit. I guess I am in the camp that would rather see slow steady growth with little dips vs. fast growth and severe crashes. Just as I would rather loose weight slowly and consistently rather then binge dieting followed by binge eating. By the looks of Androids amazing growth and their continued growth upon growth, they will have everyone on the planet within a few years... and then what? Apple will still be growing and all other manufactures will be having to fight even harder and more cut-throat for the scraps because there is no where left for them to grow.
However, having said that, I do see the concern with market share when it comes to data mining. Which is what google is chasing hard without having to actually spend it's money (brilliant BTW, not something I completely agree with, but brilliant none-the-less). Obviously the bigger pool to mine from means more information extracted (whether the information is valuable or not is not what I'm debating). What it can contribute enormously to is value for customers. More information can lead to greater success when it comes to predicting behavior of the masses and then providing you that information the moment you need it without you having to search for it or even realize that you need it. However, what sample size is required to provide sufficient information for this to be possible? Don't know... not a statistician, but if 100 million is a big enough sample size then Apple (i.e. purchasers of apple products) need not worry.
So to paraphrase many posters on matters that really don't matter... nothing to see hear.