Tim Cook to reportedly testify on offshore tax practices in Senate investigation

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  • Reply 21 of 43
    richard getzrichard getz Posts: 1,142member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    And what would happen on a state and city level?


     


    Whatever the State or City deems it wants to do as it is being done now. I'm not sure what the point is that you are getting at? 

  • Reply 22 of 43
    christophbchristophb Posts: 1,482member
    Whatever the State or City deems it wants to do as it is being done now. I'm not sure what the point is that you are getting at? 

    Reckon he means would it nullify the city, borough, county, parish, state tax or just be tacked on by the vendor and set to the appropriate authority. The consumption taxes I have seen are just tacked on to what's there.
  • Reply 23 of 43
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    Whatever the State or City deems it wants to do as it is being done now. I'm not sure what the point is that you are getting at? 

    They get income tax plus sales tax, would all their taxes go solely on sales tax as well?
  • Reply 24 of 43
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


     


    Unless I'm missing your point, Apple was incorporated in the state of California back in the Apple I/II days.  It is most certainly a US corporation.



     


    Not the Apple subsidiaries which are conducting business and holding the cash offshore.

  • Reply 25 of 43
    I'm sure there is some tax pro guys here, I'm not. What does make sense to me though is the fact that the profit generated by these US companies overseas is already taxed at the other countries current corporate tax rate. So now for the US to ask the companies to pay the US tax as well, is blatant double taxation. What if the US subtracted the tax previously paid to the other country and enforced the remainer to be US taxable funds? I'm assuming the US corporate tax is higher than most other countries these corporations are doing business in? Could they block subsidiaries BS, and make it as easy as saying the Country that the device/product is sold to the end user in is the countries tax that is discounted?
  • Reply 26 of 43
    libertyforalllibertyforall Posts: 1,418member
    The US has draconian tax laws, so much so that there are other countries WAY more competitive tax-wise than the US. The founders would roll over in their graves about taxation levels in this nation. Apple is doing the right thing -- there is NO patriotic duty to pay more tax than you absolutely have to. It is in everyone's best interest to pay the absolute minimum. Problem is all these entitlements & rampant gov't spending that is out of control. The other hidden tax is the Federal Reserve -- every time they inflate and create money out of thin air, aka quantitative easing (like how they hide it with mysterious code words?!), this is a TAX, and every dollar you have becomes worth LESS.


    Let's not even get started about the biggest scam of all -- income tax.

    Watch the documentary movie: http://freedomtofascism.com
    and
    http://paynoincometax.com/great_giveaway.htm

    What you learn will blow your mind.


    Don't get me started about efforts to mandate internet sales taxes. :no:
  • Reply 27 of 43
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    As usual I see a lot of incompetent theorizing about US and International Tax Laws.
  • Reply 28 of 43
    richard getzrichard getz Posts: 1,142member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ChristophB View Post





    Reckon he means would it nullify the city, borough, county, parish, state tax or just be tacked on by the vendor and set to the appropriate authority. The consumption taxes I have seen are just tacked on to what's there.


     


    Why would it? Current Federal income tax does not nullify State income tax? Not that all States have income tax. 

  • Reply 29 of 43
    richard getzrichard getz Posts: 1,142member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    They get income tax plus sales tax, would all their taxes go solely on sales tax as well?


     


    Delaware has no sales tax. Texas has not income tax. Just two examples. You would have whatever State tax is currently levied and then a Federal Sales Tax levied on top of that, but no Federal Income Tax, or any other forms of Federal Tax. Although I am sure a corporate tax will remain, however, I don't believe it should. 

  • Reply 30 of 43
    christophbchristophb Posts: 1,482member
    Why would it? Current Federal income tax does not nullify State income tax? Not that all States have income tax. 

    Not saying it would or should. I was guessing at the ask.
  • Reply 31 of 43
    richard getzrichard getz Posts: 1,142member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post



    The US has draconian tax laws, so much so that there are other countries WAY more competitive tax-wise than the US. The founders would roll over in their graves about taxation levels in this nation. Apple is doing the right thing -- there is NO patriotic duty to pay more tax than you absolutely have to. It is in everyone's best interest to pay the absolute minimum. Problem is all these entitlements & rampant gov't spending that is out of control. The other hidden tax is the Federal Reserve -- every time they inflate and create money out of thin air, aka quantitative easing (like how they hide it with mysterious code words?!), this is a TAX, and every dollar you have becomes worth LESS.





    Let's not even get started about the biggest scam of all -- income tax.



    Watch the documentary movie: http://freedomtofascism.com

    and

    http://paynoincometax.com/great_giveaway.htm



    What you learn will blow your mind.





    Don't get me started about efforts to mandate internet sales taxes. image


     


     


    I agree 100%! My reference to the Patriotic aspect was Biden's comments. 


     


    Thanks for the links


     


    Yes, let's get you started on internet sales tax :) 

  • Reply 32 of 43
    briancpabriancpa Posts: 61member
    john.b wrote: »
    If an American citizen earns money overseas, it's taxable in the US.

    If an American corporation earns money overseas, it's not taxable in the US until it's moved into US-based accounts.

    That's not correct. The U.S. (like most countries) tax on WORLDWIDE income. You better believe that sales in Germany, per se, are reported and taxed on the US tax return. After you calculate tax on worldwide income, you take a credit for taxes you paid to other countries already, and what you have left goes to Uncle Sammie.
  • Reply 33 of 43
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,405member
    john.b wrote: »
    If an American citizen earns money overseas, it's taxable in the US.

    If an American corporation earns money overseas, it's not taxable in the US until it's moved into US-based accounts.

    Seems like there is a discrepancy there somewhere...

    Yes, this is true, but....

    I) Income up to ~$100,000 plus reasonable amounts of housing expenses are deductible;

    II) Foreign taxes paid are credited;

    III) The seeming unfairness of the tax code in this instance is not very different from how corporations are treated differently from individuals on a whole host of issues -- for example, tax deductibility of interest payments (allowed for corporations, but limited for individuals), ability to take depreciation tax shields (allowed for corporations, not allowed for individuals), ability to keep one set of books for tax tax purposes but another set for disclosure proposes (allowed for corporations, not allowed for individuals), etc.
  • Reply 34 of 43
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,405member
    briancpa wrote: »
    The U.S. (like most countries) tax on WORLDWIDE income.

    Can you provide a cite for that? I could be wrong, but I thought that most countries have a **territorial** (not worldwide) taxation system?
  • Reply 35 of 43
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member


    The bulk of Apple is overseas, only the R&D is here.   If the US government gets draconian about taxing worldwide income, can't Apple just move its official top holding company overseas and make the US part a division of a foreign corporation?  That way the US would only have any kind of hold over the subsidiary, not the parent.



    I don't see why the US deserves a cut when a Chinese guy makes a product, a Greek guy ships it, and an French guy buys it.  Why does the US government deserve any cut of that?



     

  • Reply 36 of 43
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post


    The bulk of Apple is overseas, only the R&D is here.   If the US government gets draconian about taxing worldwide income, can't Apple just move its official top holding company overseas and make the US part a division of a foreign corporation?  That way the US would only have any kind of hold over the subsidiary, not the parent.



    I don't see why the US deserves a cut when a Chinese guy makes a product, a Greek guy ships it, and an French guy buys it.  Why does the US government deserve any cut of that?



     



    As someone who lives in a country ( Ireland) which benefits from Apple being over-seas, I disagree. Apple adds value in design, and software. The tax should be paid where value is added, worked out on some agreed system.


     


    Before this though, the US needs to reduce the rate or both companies and jobs will flee.

  • Reply 37 of 43

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by notatrader View Post



    What if the US subtracted the tax previously paid to the other country and enforced the remainer to be US taxable funds? I'm assuming the US corporate tax is higher than most other countries these corporations are doing business in? Could they block subsidiaries BS, and make it as easy as saying the Country that the device/product is sold to the end user in is the countries tax that is discounted?


     


    I believe that is what the US does already, unless someone has a source that proves otherwise?


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post



    As usual I see a lot of incompetent theorizing about US and International Tax Laws.


     


    Thank you.


     


    ---


     


    And to those arguing for a flat sales tax, HA! You think there isn't a reason that taxes are spread out over sales, estate, corporate, individual income, cap gains, etc., etc. It makes it harder to dodge taxes owed. For example, if you removed all taxes but a flat sales tax, what prevents someone from under the table sales or international sales. Someone mentioned the internet sales tax enforcement. If we can't even get our citizenry to honorably itemize what they buy on Amazon (regardless of its burdensome nature), how can we expect citizens to honorably report under the table or international sales... unless you prefer being searched and frisked at customs each time.


     


    This is on top of the fact that sales tax is the most regressive tax there is, that is to say it shifts, as a percentage, more of the tax burden onto the poorest among us that can afford it least.

  • Reply 38 of 43
    briancpabriancpa Posts: 61member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    Can you provide a cite for that? I could be wrong, but I thought that most countries have a **territorial** (not worldwide) taxation system?


     


    http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Income-from-Abroad-is-Taxable


    "... you must report income from all sources within and outside of the U.S." That's the one thing I am sure of... the rest is still kind of hazy for me image


     


    I think the issue that arises is when companies - such as Apple in this case - set up foreign subsidiaries. Those subsidiaries earn foreign income and, unless that income is repatriated into the U.S. via dividends/distributions, it's never taxed in the U.S. I believe that, if Apple Inc. out of California opened a factory in Mexico, they would report that income on the U.S. tax return and take a credit for any taxes paid to Mexico - thus avoiding double taxation. But, if Apple were to set up XYZ Corp. in Mexico which turned around and opened a factory, the profit that factory earned would not be taxable in the U.S. because it's not income being earned by Mexican corporation, not a U.S. one. However, if XYZ issued dividends to Apple in order to return those profits back to Apple Inc., then those would be subject to U.S. tax.


     


    That's my take on it. By no means am I claiming to be an expert on international taxation and I may very well be missing some key points.

  • Reply 39 of 43
    pfisherpfisher Posts: 758member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Richard Getz View Post


    What I find hypocritical is that Apple is a politically Left leaning company which would make one thing Apple believes in the 'It's patriotic to pay more taxes' and 'the rich can afford to pay more' while all along they are doing everything they can to pay less. Just like those on the political Right want for everyone; pay less. 


     


    I wonder if their board member, the ultra progressive Al Gore, thinks it okay for Apple to hide money overseas? 


     


    Remove the IRS and install a flat sales tax for everyone and all these problems go away! 





    Yes, and I've come to the conclusion Apple is just a corporation like any other, for the most part and will do what they can not to pay taxes. It would be antithetical to not do so.


     


    That's why corporations need to be regulated and they are not "people." Corporations definitely don't care about a lot of things, but it's own survival.


     


    Apple would get hammered by investors if it voluntarily took the opportunity to just go ahead and repatriate the income and pay taxes on it. Because that's how the system works.

  • Reply 40 of 43
    damn_its_hotdamn_its_hot Posts: 1,209member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John.B View Post



    If an American citizen earns money overseas, it's taxable in the US.



    If an American corporation earns money overseas, it's not taxable in the US until it's moved into US-based accounts.



    Seems like there is a discrepancy there somewhere...


     


     


    If you go overseas and work for a year and are paid there when you return you get the money US tax free. I have a friend who works in Afghanistan and besides the very high rate he get, it is tax free if he stays for a year. He actually is allowed to come back to the US or a territory of the same for a short period (I think less than 2 weeks) without jeopardizing that (as long as he does not bring back money from there. He lives in a compound on a rather large base and it is a hell of a lot of work in the heat but the money for skilled folks is great (especially tax free). He is a Master Electrician He works for KBR.

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