IDC: Apple's iOS fell to 17% of smartphones shipped in Q1, Windows Phone passed BlackBerry

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  • Reply 61 of 139
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


    The reason Apple was run to the ground was because , in the early 1990's it kept huge profit margins reducing it's share of a rapidly growing market to 5% from 12%. Had it competed on price earlier it would have no need to compete - too much, too late - later.


     



     


    That's a fair point, but look what happened. The PC market fought itself down to razor-thin margins and a situation where the manufacturers are forced to install crapware on machines to make any money at all. And fifteen years later, Apple still has a relatively small market share, but their PC sales makes them more money than the other top four manufacturers combined.


     


    Pricing is very important, but what Apple has learned from years of watching the PC market is that it's very easy to get involved in a war and then price yourself into bankruptcy. The other thing they learned is that without an ecosystem (and that's the real reason they lost the PC wars) then you're stuffed. That's why they've spent millions millions on data centres, continue to work on Maps, why they're ready to listen if it means getting TV networks to sign on with them. This is all about the ecosystem, because everything else is disposable.

  • Reply 62 of 139
    clarker99clarker99 Posts: 230member


    I am a Store Manager for cellphone dealer in Canada.  We ordered in 20 Samsung Galaxy S4's in for launch day.  We still have 10 in stock. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks in stock.


     


    Their were zero lines and only 3 people called to see if we had stock on launch day.


     


    I am not sure what that means but I struggle to believe the 'numbers' Samsung is throwing out.

  • Reply 63 of 139

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PScooter63 View Post


     


    The question remains: why are you here?



    What has he done wrong ?

  • Reply 64 of 139
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member
    jdnc123 wrote: »
    Because I'm down a few hundred k on the stock and venting.  I haven't responded to any of the name calling or disparaging remarks, I have only criticized Tim Cook, which many people do away from this site.  I hope Apple employees look here and see that there is intense displeasure by some in their recent actions and that they change the way they've been operating lately.  Am I delusional enough to think anything I say will make a difference?  No, but who really thinks anything said on any internet forum has a material impact on anything.  I'd ask why are all the other posters here?  Do they have Apple pom-poms at home and simply enjoy telling the world this company can do no wrong?

    So you're having a childish hissy-fit that you bet wrong? Welcome to the Wall Street Casino. Don't blame Apple. Suck it up, put on your righty-whities and accept that you win some and lose some. I'm still ahead on AAPL right now, albeit not as much as when it was on the $700 days, but I don't blame them. I blame the a$$hats that manipulate the media and market to play their little games.

    If you can't handle the losses that go with winning, then the market isn't for you.
  • Reply 65 of 139
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    …my criticism…


     


    Ah, is that what you're trying to pitch it as, these days… "criticism"… 





    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

    Because I'm down a few hundred k on the stock and venting.


     


    Good for you. Sell the stock and quit whining.






    Am I delusional enough to think anything I say will make a difference?  No, but who really thinks anything said on any internet forum has a material impact on anything.



     


    You're delusional enough to waste your time on actions you yourself have acknowledged are meaningless. That removes any 'protection' you might otherwise have had from disparaging remarks.


     


    Many actions on many forums have impact. Somehow I imagine yours won't.






    I'd ask why are all the other posters here?  Do they have Apple pom-poms at home and simply enjoy telling the world this company can do no wrong?



     


    Gotta love the black and white world of the troll.





    Originally Posted by Teamracer View Post

    What has he done wrong ?


     


    HA!

  • Reply 66 of 139
    just_mejust_me Posts: 590member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    High quality moderation at this site.  I'm starting to think you are a 10 year old.  You should be proud of yourself, having told me to "shut up" a couple times in the last day, that is really an intelligent, well thought out argument to my criticism,  Sadly, its probably the best you can come up with. 



    Luckily hes not a mod anymore. You can just block his post.

  • Reply 67 of 139
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/05/13/2013051301012.html#ystfuv


     


    Right because if its not in a document its not legit?  You do know it would be against SEC laws for a company representative to publicly discuss these numbers if they weren't true?



    Please shut up.


     


    And move along.....

  • Reply 68 of 139
    mudman2 wrote: »
    For crying outloud will you stop publishing this crap data, IDC are corrupt everyone knows it

    Unless you are owned by the same company I guess

    AppleInsider won't rest until iOS marketshare falls below 1%.
  • Reply 69 of 139
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    kdarling wrote: »
    No sir, they were not all sales to end users.   In fact, that's why analysts were so unhappy with the first weekend having "only" one million more than the iPhone 4S a year prior, which was in two fewer countries.  Everyone had expected a lot more sales the first weekend, because those sales include retailers filling inventory.  Thus it was seen as a case of retailers holding back due to low expected demand. (*)

    For example, among others, ISI Group's Brian Marshall noted: "Clarification - recall the 5mil+ iPhone 5 reported sales only takes into consideration: 1) what was sold into partners (e.g., retail outlets, carriers, etc.), 2) sold in AAPL retail stores, and 3) direct to customers only if they signed for the device."
     
    Btw, #3 often confuses people, because Apple also reports presale numbers, many of which are not part of sales yet because they haven't been delivered yet.  Apple does not report direct end user sales until delivery.  Thus we can often ADD presales on top of the first weekend sales, to get a better idea of how many have actually been purchased by both end users and retailers.
     
    (*) However, as it turned out later, the real cause for such low shipments was probably production problems with the aluminum case.  (Everyone had wrongly assumed that Cook, being a supply chain expert, wouldn't have had such supply problems.)
    So, tell me then how many retailers had iPhone 5s available to walk out the door with or buy online the weekend it came out? I gave one example of a Verizon store that said they sold out by 9am on Friday. I get that the 5 million wasn't all direct sales from Apple to the consumer but all we had were stories about Apple, AT&T, Verizon, etc. being out of stock. If these carriers/re-sellers never received stock in the first place (because of production problems or some other reason) Apple would hardly have included that in their 5M figure. So yes, it wasn't 5M in the customers hands but highly likely that it was 5M in process.

    Today I can go on AT&T, Sprint, Best Buy, Carphone Warehouse (and I'm sure others) and they all have the Galaxy S4 in stock and available for purchase. If that phone was such a hot seller (I'm assuming that's the reason these figures were posted here in the first place) wouldn't places be out of stock? Unless we're to believe Samsung has millions of these phones sitting in a warehouse somewhere and they're replenishing resellers as fast as they're selling them?
  • Reply 70 of 139
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post

    You can just block his post.


     


    They always seem to keep replying, though. image

  • Reply 71 of 139
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    clarker99 wrote: »
    I am a Store Manager for cellphone dealer in Canada.  We ordered in 20 Samsung Galaxy S4's in for launch day.  We still have 10 in stock. Tomorrow will be 3 weeks in stock.

    Their were zero lines and only 3 people called to see if we had stock on launch day.

    I am not sure what that means but I struggle to believe the 'numbers' Samsung is throwing out.
    I don't doubt that Samsung pushed that many in to the channel and I don't doubt that the S4 will sell very well. But it's pretty obvious those figures were posted here to show how well the S4 is selling (and why it's doom for Apple) when it really doesn't tell us anything of the sort. If it was selling that well resellers would be out of stock or we'd have anecdotal reports of long lines at stores or brisk sales. Where are those stories?

    Also we keep hearing about how the high end smartphone market is becoming saturated (again all doom for Apple). Well if there is any truth to that wouldn't it also impact the S4? Is that not a high end smartphone?
  • Reply 72 of 139


    Seriously its absolutely has me astounded that you guys think Samsung would channel stuff. There is no profits in it. Samsung ships the phones to where they will be purchased. There is no company who values people's perception of their numbers more then they do profits. Stop thinking that they are just channel stuffing. The Galaxy S 4 is a popular phone. It may not be iPhone numbers but it is a popular phone Samsung will sale 50-40 million by the end of the year. 

  • Reply 73 of 139
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Seriously its absolutely has me astounded that you guys think Samsung would channel stuff. There is no profits in it. Samsung ships the phones to where they will be purchased. There is no company who values people's perception of their numbers more then they do profits. Stop thinking that they are just channel stuffing. The Galaxy S 4 is a popular phone. It may not be iPhone numbers but it is a popular phone Samsung will sale 50-40 million by the end of the year. 
    Doesn't mean they've already sold 6M to consumers and 10M by end of month. Just means the resellers are well stocked.
  • Reply 74 of 139
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    Because I'm down a few hundred k on the stock and venting.  



     


    Not sure why that's anyone's fault but your own, and I'm not sure how whining like a little girl is going to improve your situation. The value of your stock can go up as well as down; you know that, right? Smart investors cut their losses and get out when they think there's a problem. That's what I do, and I'm not that smart.  


     




    I have only criticized Tim Cook, which many people do away from this site.




     


    The only people who seem to be criticizing are pundits looking for web hits and analysts out to make a fast buck. The actual investors gave Cook an approval rating of about 99.1%. Perhaps they're not as prone to panic as others appear to be.


     





    I hope Apple employees look here and see that there is intense displeasure by some in their recent actions and that they change the way they've been operating lately.




     


    Well, as well as the 99.1% approval rating with investors, Cook is also enjoying a 93% approval rate with Apple employees, so I don't think you're going to get much joy there either.


     







     Am I delusional enough to think anything I say will make a difference?  No, but who really thinks anything said on any internet forum has a material impact on anything.  




     


     


    Well, any company that formulates company policy based on the rantings in a rumour forum is in for a world of hurt at some point ....


     





    I'd ask why are all the other posters here?  Do they have Apple pom-poms at home and simply enjoy telling the world this company can do no wrong?




     


    Well, I imagine they're interested in reading about Apple products and the like. Most folk here probably don't have Apple shares so are more concerned with hearing about what new stuff Apple might or might not be bringing out. The problem is that AI is more concerned with with ad hits but lacks the writing talent to attract views through traditional investigative journalism, so they have to start fights, like the ones in this thread. I think another problem is that there is no news coming from Cupertino that can can be written about by journalists without investigative skills. Either that's because Apple isn't doing anything, or Cook has become very adept at keeping a lid on things. I guess we'll find out which it is soon enough.


     


  • Reply 75 of 139
    drewys808drewys808 Posts: 549member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post


    Because I'm down a few hundred k on the stock and venting.  I haven't responded to any of the name calling or disparaging remarks, I have only criticized Tim Cook, which many people do away from this site.  I hope Apple employees look here and see that there is intense displeasure by some in their recent actions and that they change the way they've been operating lately.  Am I delusional enough to think anything I say will make a difference?  No, but who really thinks anything said on any internet forum has a material impact on anything.  I'd ask why are all the other posters here?  Do they have Apple pom-poms at home and simply enjoy telling the world this company can do no wrong?





    Seriously, that's why you're here??


     


    Almost all here realize that it's impossible for one corporation to rule the hardware world.  "We" realize that the first-to-entry created unheard of success in the iPod, iPhone and iPad.


     


    Android has advantages...its ecosystem has embraced multitudes of sizes, shapes, colors, quality, functionality and prices.  Some devices are very good but most are crap leaving the customer very unsatisfied....many companies lose/lost profits.  And all sorts of people are attracted to these devices.  You will find that (the cheap) cost is a major factor for the majority of the customer base.


     


    So does Apple have competition?  Of course.  Please don't tell me you invested in Apple thinking that no competition would ever appear.  If so, you should get out of investing, move on and be thankful for the lesson.


     


    Is this is an important year for Apple?  Hell yah.  If Apple does not offer a different form factor, it will show the world that it is indeed too slow or too risk adverse to be in this industry...and would mean that Apple might be relegated to 17% market share... for forever.




    But if Apple launches a new form factor, it'll hold on and grow slightly in 2013.  Then in 2014...watchout...you'd be sorry that you sold your shares.


     


    It's a fast paced world filled with wild expectations, my only concern is whether Apple can really kick the competition's ass when you have companies, like Samsung, who plays up to the fast-paced/high-expectations by stealing and using questionable ad/marketing schemes.


     


    Despite what I wrote above, I believe that IDC's accuracy is crap.

  • Reply 76 of 139
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member


    >>Not sure why that's anyone's fault but your own, and I'm not sure how whining like a little girl is going to improve your situation. The value of your stock can go up as well as down; you know that, right? Smart investors cut their losses and get out when they think there's a problem. That's what I do, and I'm not that smart.>>


     


    Did I say it was anyone's fault but my own?  I was asked a question and answered it honestly.  Maybe I should have just made up a reason instead.  I'm a big boy and can deal with the losses, not the first, won't be the last time I lose.  Using your logic, David Einhorn and many other longs aren't smart and you are smarter than guys that are worth billions.  Keep telling yourself that.  Are the majority of the large holders selling the stock lately?  Based on 13F filings, the answer is yes.  Some are adding.  I can wait, but I can complain while I wait also.

  • Reply 77 of 139
    adamcadamc Posts: 583member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    It gets old repeating it for those that don't pay attention or think it though: Shipped equals sold as a general rule. Doesn't matter if a carrier/retailer pays for it or an end-user. It"s still sold. The way that Apple officially recognizes a sale is effectively the same way Samsung does.  Some of you are confusing sales revenue with sell-thru numbers, something Apple sorta gives us with their channel inventory estimates. Samsung does not.

    Try to get it right when Apple said sold it meant to the consumers and not stored in warehouses so somewhere.

    No one is asking for sale revenue but the product sold versus shipped.

    The analysts were not happy because the whispered number was 10 millions Nd Apple 'managed' to sell only 5 millions.

    Apple could easily have stuffed the channel with 10millions phones.
  • Reply 78 of 139
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member


    Originally Posted by Rayz View Post


     




     



     


     


    Well, I imagine they're interested in reading about Apple products and the like. Most folk here probably don't have Apple shares so are more concerned with hearing about what new stuff Apple might or might not be bringing out. The problem is that AI is more concerned with with ad hits but lacks the writing talent to attract views through traditional investigative journalism, so they have to start fights, like the ones in this thread. I think another problem is that there is no news coming from Cupertino that can can be written about by journalists without investigative skills. Either that's because Apple isn't doing anything, or Cook has become very adept at keeping a lid on things. I guess we'll find out which it is soon enough.


     





     


     This site is a investor site, as well as a fan site. Hence the "insider" tag - although we are none of us insiders, I suspect. Investors are free to come and vent.


     


    As for the rest of us, we can be fans and critical. This is a serious juncture for Apple. Lets hope they respond to it.


     


    Tolerance of criticism here has been reduced somewhat in the post-iPhone age. Until then there wasn't a keynote which wasn't routinely criticized. The only exception I can think of is the iPhone announcement itself; until then most posts in response to announcements or strategy were unhappy with some release or other; some pet project not started, some machine not upgraded, some screens not matte, or too matte enough, I forget which ( boy, that thread never ended). 


     


    I understand the price of Apple fandom is eternal vigilance - most people critical of Apple on the broader internet are trolls, or fandroids, or uninformed idiots. Let's leave the mods to deal with that - people with low posting counts, and repeating the echo chamber points of the androids are easy to spot.


     


    But jndc123 is clearly posting from within the fence, as an investor. He knows his stuff. He is concerned. Thats why he is here. Its ok to dislike the management, to wonder where the new products are for 2013.


     


    I posted a review of the Google I/O on a thread yesterday, saying it was all good stuff and Apple needed to up it's game. I was accused of propaganda by a poster who joined in 2008. I've been here since 2003. I reported that, and will continue to do that, because this place needs differences of opinions and I, too, am not happy with the present management.


     


    So if I am called a troll, or a propagandist, you will be reported. Whether that does any good or not remains to be seen.


  • Reply 79 of 139
    jdnc123jdnc123 Posts: 233member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Please shut up.


     


    And move along.....



    OK tough guy.  I love all the clowns here who use the internet to all of a sudden become schoolyard bullies, none of which likely have the spine to say such things in person, but somehow get tough on a forum.  Only makes me want to post more.

  • Reply 80 of 139
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AdamC View Post





    Try to get it right when Apple said sold it meant to the consumers and not stored in warehouses so somewhere.



    No one is asking for sale revenue but the product sold versus shipped.



    The analysts were not happy because the whispered number was 10 millions Nd Apple 'managed' to sell only 5 millions.



    Apple could easily have stuffed the channel with 10millions phones.


    Apple managed to ship 5 million, not sell. it shipped to Channel. 

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